robot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,478
I'm not even sure who I want to win this, but it seems like Epic doesn't have much of a foot to stand on legally.
 

Mindwipe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,327
London
Apple is literally never going to back down from this. Spotify has tried suing apple about this for years now and nothing has come from it so far. Even if the EU rules against Apple, they are just going to comply with any ruling in the most convoluted way possible, changing literally nothing for the consumer.

Spotify's case is ongoing - it's not that "nothing has come of it". Antitrust cases basically take 3 - 5 years. This case will as well.

If they lose Apple will get told how to comply with the ruling by the EU, same as Microsoft were, and will have to pre-submit their solutions to the court for approval.
 

Morrigan

Spear of the Metal Church
Member
Oct 24, 2017
34,727
It's fuck Apple for their super restrictive policies
But those same people are rarely saying "Fuck Sony, Nintendo, Microsoft" either... 🤷‍♀️

I think apple will surely tell at court that apple i-products are closed systems with a specified operating system, kinda like game consoles with communication options.
So, if that is a case and Epic wins, would that be the end of closed systems like Xbox, PlayStation and Nintendo?
Where is the difference?
Indeed.

EfU3gBaVoAEZitz
Holy fuuuuuuuuck

This is the cringiest thing I've seen in a long time. George Orwell must be spinning in his grave.
 

Phellps

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,281
You know, if they had at least waited a few days before dropping that video, at least it would seem sincere.

I wouldn't be shocked of this is a join stunt by both Epic and Apple to announce some big App Store change or whatever.
 

Kaeden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,980
US
You weren't around for the Windows monopoly days, were you?
You mean when IE was forced into Windows and there was like no support for the others? And what other competition was there at the time... Apple? Wasn't even close to being the same size or comparison in any way to what we're dealing with today. Not at all.
 

EagleClaw

Member
Dec 31, 2018
11,212
Its based on scope of the device. It would not be the first kind of restriction based on target market.

Maybe, i actually have no clue about any of those cases.
I know MS needed to get rid of the internet explorer in Windows because of monopoly, surely you could download it for free after the windows instalation.
But turning down the walls on closed systems, to circumvent fees of the platform holder, never heard something like that.
But maybe it is a first, or there was already something like that.
 

Mg.

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,034
This is just incredibly sad. From both sides. But from an iOS developer's perspective, I hope this does result in lowered cuts if anything. Wishful thinking, I know. But it'd really help.
 

ErrorJustin

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,484
Epic positioning it not as them making more money but by passing those savings along makes Apple look so bad, in the court of public opinion. Of course reality is a lot more nuanced - they're getting $7 from each Apple IAP purchase and are keeping $8 from each direct purchase. They're actually earning more (even after accounting for CC fees).

I don't think apple taking 30% of app purchases from the App Store itself is unreasonable. They built the fucking app store. It's their store. But where Apple is so so far over-the-top is disallowing any and all alternative payment methods and options when you're within the app, as Epic mentions. Not only are you forced to send all iOS IAP through Apple, you can't even hint at or allude to alternative payment methods, like suggest users sign up or pay on a browser. That's nuts, and highly monopolistic.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,789
I'm going to imagine that Apple's defense here is something something, privacy first, safety first something something..Because it sounds like that's how they are justifying it.
 

Xater

Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,983
Germany
Well Epic got what they wanted. It's obvious they wanted to go this direction. It's probably good that they are taking Apple to court over this, but weaponizing your players suuuucks.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,017
So say this leads to 15% cut for Apple, Sony, MS, Nintendo, et al.

Does this mean we can expect less R&D investment in hardware, more expensive hardware and less powerful hardware from all to adjust for the lower return?

Nah, probably not. the big 3 aren't exactly hurting for cash.

Also, this is targeted exclusively at Apple. Nothing that happens here would necessarily impact consoles.

All the parallels Epic is trying to draw are between iOS and Mac OS (General purpose computing) and the dual standards Apple is keeping. In the case of home consoles, those dual standards do not exist.
 
Jun 20, 2019
2,638
For me, I understand Apple, Google and all the others having certain charges. Apple charges to join the Dev program, the console makers charge for Dev kits, I think it makes sense to give their stores a cut for selling your product.. but once your product is in the user's hands it does seem unethical to me to prevent the developer having an ongoing relationship with the user without using the company who owns the platform. There needs to be a clear ruling on this, my gut feeling is that software and software expansions run on the hardware - must pass verification on the hardware, therefore platform holder can validly gatekeep it... But for digital goods, cosmetic shit, season tickets, service fees etc. they shouldn't get shit. The developer is putting time in to add value and make a profit from their product, the platform holder should get out of the way and the let the users and the market decide if that's ok. Taking a cut just makes it more expensive for the user and harder for the developer to monetise their own hard work.
Ok. COD 2022 now is a free download but you can only play a short demo unless you pay Activision $80 directly through their payment portal. Console holders get nothing, players get nothing, developers in the trenches get nothing, Kotick gets a new private jet.
 

Atheerios

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,173
Here's the HQ video:



Epic's statement:

www.epicgames.com

Free Fortnite FAQ

Epic has taken legal action to end Apple and Google’s anti-competitive restrictions on mobile device marketplaces.
 

THEVOID

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,065
I think apple will surely tell at court that apple i-products are closed systems with a specified operating system, kinda like game consoles with communication options.
So, if that is a case and Epic wins, would that be the end of closed systems like Xbox, PlayStation and Nintendo?
Where is the difference?

what's the difference between Android, Apple, MacOS, and Windows. All are all purpose OS's and only two of those are locked down from installing anything besides the store in which they get a 30% cut. 🤷‍♂️
 

Mecha

Shinra Employee
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,482
Honduras
Tim Sweeney recruiting all the Fortnite players for the war against Apple wasn't something I would expect. Ever.
 

dex3108

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,229
So they are ready to weaponize their userbase for this but no COVID videos, no BLM videos (except that one talk) no videos related to anything that happened worldwide this year?
 

Gin

Member
May 2, 2018
313
Sounds really shitty from EPIC -

Epic join the Apple store with conditions that all developers need to follow
Epic then decide to change the rules without consulting Apple
Apple decides to remove the game and tell Epic to F off
Epic turns into Karen and throws a hissy fit
It also decides to get the gamers to unite on its servers (lol)

what kind of BS is this ??