Francis Ford Coppola backs Scorsese in row over Marvel films

Wamb0wneD · Oct 20, 2019

Alice said:
Yeah, the person who made Godfather said they're not cinema (wrong) and that they're despicable (wtf).

That's what people are talking about. This isn't about "art", this is about the term "cinema", look up a definition and you'll see why.

As for "art", that's entirely subjective, with your line of thinking video games aren't art either. *shrug*

I feel this sort of shit is just people tryin'a toot their own horn over how sophisticated their tastes are. I own almost every single Masters of Cinema BD release, and can still let the MCU be cinema without tarnshing my little imaginary crown of sophistication.

No, the person who made Godfather didn't say they are despicable.

Why would my line of thinking lead to that? Shadow of the Colossus is art, Call of Duty isn't. Yeah you're right, it's subjective, I don't think I ever said otherwise. It's just that some people, on both sides of the argument, put a lot of weight on what these guys who made some of the best movies of all time have to say about their craft. You seem to disagree with them, and that's ok.

And I feel like people who enjoy the movie equivalent of fast food can't just enjoy said fast food and instead feel insecure about their tastes when someone who isn't into making fast food says he doesn't like it.

ViewtifulJC · Oct 20, 2019

this will never end until we get every director's opinion huh. And just the same arguments about what is or isnt cinema, over and over and over

Really cant wait for George Lucas to step in next week. "Oh, they're awful. Star Wars was something very personal, it really resonated with me and my feelings about the world, and Vietnam, and how humans behave in a state of unease. These new Marvel movies, they're not about anything but themselves? Its not about humans, they're no artistry. Its about gems and big purple glove guy and a teaser at the end to watch the next anonymous looking movie in 6 months."

Deleted member 984 · Oct 20, 2019

What's with the food analogies?

Alice · Oct 20, 2019

Wamb0wneD said:
No, the person who made Godfather didn't say they are despicable.

Why would my line of thinking lead to that? Shadow of the Colossus is art, Call of Duty isn't. Yeah you're right, it's subjective, I don't think I ever said otherwise. It's just that somepeople put a lot of weight on what these guys who made some of the best movies of all time have to say about their craft. You seem to disagree with them, and that's ok.

And I feel like people who enjoy the movie equivalent of fast food can't just enjoy said fast food and instead feel insecure about their tastes when someone who isn't into maing fast food says he doesn't like fast food.

Read the damn quotes in the OP, you're flat out denying facts and making shit up.

Deleted member 27771 · Oct 20, 2019

Fantastapotamus said:
I have no opinion on this but I find it hilarious when people say this is "literally gatekeeping"
Tremendous.

Co-opting and playing semantics with gatekeeping to defend Marvel.

Also let's throw people calling hip hop not music to further muddy the waters.

Trup1aya · Oct 20, 2019

UltraMagnus said:
Scorcese did say to him cinema is the art of telling stories that have meaning to them (basically), so if that's a metric one uses then his POV isn't really that far off. It's whether or not you think movies should have something to say or not.

Nah he said

I don't see them. I tried, you know? But that's not cinema. Honestly, the closest I can think of them, as well made as they are, with actors doing the best they can under the circumstances, is theme parks. It isn't the cinema of human beings trying to convey emotional, psychological experiences to another human being.

His comment is nonsense. Even by his own definition mcu is cinema, even if some of them are low-end representations of it.

Mcu films in general dont have anything more or less to say than done if Lucas' or Spielberg's Blockbusters for example, but he was real careful to make sure they make it into the gate

Holundrian · Oct 20, 2019

Can't we all just agree that cinema is trash compared to books and call it a day? xD

Alice · Oct 20, 2019

ViewtifulJC said:
this will never end until we get every director's opinion huh. And just the same arguments about what is or isnt cinema, over and over and over

Really cant wait for George Lucas to step in next week. "Oh, they're awful. Star Wars was something very personal, it really resonated with me and my feelings about the world, and Vietnam, and how humans behave in a state of unease. These new Marvel movies, they're not about anything but themselves? Its not about humans, they're no artistry. Its about gems and big purple glove guy and a teaser at the end to watch the next anonymous looking movie in 6 months."

Honestly, at this point these are just being posted to stir shit up, I dunno why these aren't being closed earlier by the mods.

Deleted member 36054 · Oct 20, 2019

Wamb0wneD said:
No, the person who made Godfather didn't say they are despicable.

Why would my line of thinking lead to that? Shadow of the Colossus is art, Call of Duty isn't. Yeah you're right, it's subjective, I don't think I ever said otherwise. It's just that some people, no both sides of the argument, put a lot of weight on what these guys who made some of the best movies of all time have to say about their craft. You seem to disagree with them, and that's ok.

And I feel like people who enjoy the movie equivalent of fast food can't just enjoy said fast food and instead feel insecure about their tastes when someone who isn't into making fast food says he doesn't like it.

But you're saying that our fast food is not indeed food correct?

Prolepro · Oct 20, 2019

Trup1aya said:
The snozzy self chef can diss McDonald's all he wants. But if he fixes his lips to say a quarter pounder w/ cheese isn't food, he'd be talking nonsense.

That's nonsensical as saying an MCU film isn't cinema. Its cinema by default.

I dont think the chef would say it's not real food in this hypothetical comparison.

Theyd probably say it's not "culinary" or something like that.

For the record, idk how you can look at the tens of thousands of hours of effort that go into making MCU films and not think it "cinema" but Im just some shmuck.

UltraMagnus · Oct 20, 2019

Holundrian said:
Can't we all just agree that cinema is trash compared to books and call it a day? xD

Fuck them books, lol.

Holundrian · Oct 20, 2019

UltraMagnus said:
Fuck your books, lol.

Shakespeare sad.

Wamb0wneD · Oct 20, 2019

Alice said:
Read the damn quotes in the OP, you're flat out denying facts and making shit up.

You're right, I got mixed up for a second. Can you maybe respond to anything else I wrote or nah? Your video game example made no sense.

Big_Blue said:
But you're saying that our fast food is not indeed food correct?

No? I say that it's enjoyable, but that it's not as good as a meal you can get at a good restaurant. And that anyone who is arguing otherwise is being delusional.

Detective Loki · Oct 20, 2019

Has Francis even made anything relevant lately?

apocat · Oct 20, 2019

Holundrian said:
Because fiction trumps those for entertainment and as a normal human you're not just consuming for enlightenmment but also to relax. But then I also clearly never made the silly attempt establishing this pecking order. It's Scorsese that does try to do that. I'm just correcting his silly attempt by using the framework he hints at and correctly stating within that framework books would trump the silly attempts cinema has done to try to say something meaningful compared to books.

I mean we can disagree but give me a movie that carries the "message" of a Treatise of Human Nature? You can't cause movies aren't capable of carrying the same information density within their runtime nor are they able to communicate with the same clarity cause they have to veil the message in entertainment.

Another example I love whiplash as a movie... if you're truly trying to stand up for it as enlightening cinema oh boy. It is so far removed from the musician experience it is wildly not enjoyed by most musicians.

And to ask a counter question, which novel gives you such an all encompassing treatise? Or do we have to resort to philosophy again? Would Shakespeare suffice? If so, why? He wrote plays, which are in many ways closer to films than books.

Also, I absolutely agree about whiplash. It completely fails to convey musicianship.

Deleted member 22750 · Oct 20, 2019

GC- said:
What's with the food analogies?

because the marvel films are poopy. Food brings on the poop.

I guess.

Food is always used in quality arguments.

I guess you could say quality movies are Bugatti's and Marvel films are like a gremlin.

But seriously, enjoy what you like.

Deleted member 36054 · Oct 20, 2019

Wamb0wneD said:
You're right, I got mixed up for a second. Can you maybe respond to anything else I wrote or nah? Your video game example made no sense.

No? I say that it's enjoyable, but that it's not as good as a meal you can get at a good restaurant. And that anyone who is arguing otherwise is being delusional.

Sorry, you literally just said you didn't think MCU was art.

Anyways this is all a joke because by FFC own authored definition, MCU movies are "cinema".

Alice · Oct 20, 2019

Wamb0wneD said:
You're right, I got mixed up for a second. Can you maybe respond to anything else I wrote or nah? Your video game example made no sense.

No? I say that it's enjoyable, but that it's not as good as a meal you can get at a good restaurant. And that anyone who is arguing otherwise is being delusional.

My video game example makes as much sense as your movie example. You can't just fucking cherrypick things you don't like and say "well that's not art" - That's what they used to do to Warhol, and it was complete and utter bullshit.

Not to mention that this still isn't about MCU being art.

Holundrian · Oct 20, 2019

apocat said:
And to ask a counter question, which novel gives you such an all encompassing treatise? Or do we have to resort to philosophy again? Would Shakespeare suffice? If so, why? He wrote plays, which are in many ways closer to films than books.

Also, I absolutely agree about whiplash. It completely fails to convey musicianship.

Mmh? I'm talking books as a medium. Why would I arbitrarily make this distinction between a Treatise of Human Nature and another novel?
I'm not silly like Scorsese trying to arbitrarily make distinctions within the same medium just to elevate their own work.
Books are books man and in the end the medium is superior to anything cinema can and has said so far. The way Scorsese talks about the superiority of cinema just reads as jealousy to what books have accomplished. Got bad news, you#re still in the same kiddy pool as the marvel baby.

apocat · Oct 20, 2019

Holundrian said:
Shakespeare sad.

Those weren't books. They were scripts. Like the ones movies have.

Holundrian said:
Mmh? I'm talking books as a medium. Why would I arbitrarily make this distinction between a Treatise of Human Nature and another novel?
I'm not silly like Scorsese trying to arbitrarily make distinctions within the same medium just to elevate their own work.
Books are books man and in the end the medium is superior to anything cinema can and has said so far. The way Scorsese talks about the superiority of cinema just reads as jealousy to what books have accomplished. Got bad news, you#re still in the same kiddy pool as the marvel baby.

Jesus. For a moment I thought we had an actual conversation, and then you resort to childish Kiddy pool insults.

Either way, I think it's time I rip the plastic of my blu-ray copy of Masaki Kobayashis nine and a half hour long movie epic the Human Condition. I still haven't seen it, but the title is promising considering this discussion. I loved his other movie, Harakiri. It was years since I last saw it, but I still remember it as a beautifully constructed depiction of subverting authority from within a system. It spoke to me in the same way as some of the timeless literature I digested when I studied literature history back at university.

It was also in a completely other ballpark compared to the marvel movies. Or should that be kiddy pool?

Trup1aya · Oct 20, 2019

JaeCryo said:
I dont think the chef would say it's not real food in this hypothetical comparison.

Theyd probably say it's not "culinary" or something like that.

For the record, idk how you can look at the tens of thousands of hours of effort that go into making MCU films and not think it "cinema" but Im just some shmuck.

Cinema isn't even a more prestigious term than movie or film. They are all basically interchangeable, with cinema weighing a bit more towards the art of filmmaking.

Saying a movie isnt cinema is akin to saying fastfood isn't food, or a hybrid isn't a car. Like you said, It just doesn't make any sense.

Edgar · Oct 20, 2019

Alright, who was it?

Holundrian · Oct 20, 2019

apocat said:
Those weren't books. They were scripts. Like the ones movies have.

Touche I'm tired it was a nonsensical joke a super trashy joke. Disregard it, point for you. I put as much thought into it as Scorsese put into the depiction of mental illness in taxi driver.

Alice · Oct 20, 2019

Holundrian said:
Mmh? I'm talking books as a medium. Why would I arbitrarily make this distinction between a Treatise of Human Nature and another novel?
I'm not silly like Scorsese trying to arbitrarily make distinctions within the same medium just to elevate their own work.
Books are books man and in the end the medium is superior to anything cinema can and has said so far. The way Scorsese talks about the superiority of cinema just reads as jealousy to what books have accomplished. Got bad news, you#re still in the same kiddy pool as the marvel baby.

One could be mean and say Coppola ain't got shit on Mario Puzo.

Dyno · Oct 20, 2019

Wamb0wneD said:
No? I say that it's enjoyable, but that it's not as good as a meal you can get at a good restaurant. And that anyone who is arguing otherwise is being delusional.

That last bit is where the your line of thinking doesnt seem to add up though IMO. I'm not gonna choose McDonalds, if I have the choice I'm going for a fancy steak. That's my preference.

Theres definitely people out there who would choose McDonalds over anything. For some it will be their favourite food in the world. Who am I to tell them they're wrong? What's 'better' goes out the window when it's down to preference.

Wamb0wneD · Oct 20, 2019

Alice said:
My video game example makes as much sense as your movie example. You can't just fucking cherrypick things you don't like and say "well that's not art" - That's what they used to do to Warhol, and it was complete and utter bullshit.

Not to mention that this still isn't about MCU being art.

But I do like these movies. I also like playing CoD from time to time. Comparing Warhol to the MCU is fucking ridiculous lol.

I'm not sure that what Coppola or Scorsese meant with cinemea is some textbook definition of it. They sem to feel like the MCU is lacking thought and depth.

Big_Blue said:
Sorry, you literally just said you didn't think MCU was art.

Yes, it isn't. It's a movie though.

Angie · Oct 20, 2019

subpar spatula said:
what is there generation?

The Silent Generation

Boomers are apparently the generation of those that directed the Marvel movies.

Aegus said:
Looking into this even more. The majority of the directors in the MCU are in the boomer definition or are a couple of years off.

Peyton Reed - 1964
Scott Derickson - 1966
Shane Black - 1961
James Gunn - 1966
Russo Bros - 1970
Alan Taylor - 1959
Jon Favreau - 1966

Shut up boomers??

Deleted member 36054 · Oct 20, 2019

Wamb0wneD said:
But I do like these movies. I also like playing CoD from time to time. Comparing Warhol to the MCU is fucking ridiculous lol.

I'm not sure that what Coppola or Scorsese meant with cinemea is some textbook definition of it. They sem to feel like the MCU is lacking thought and depth.

Yes, it isn't. It's a movie though.

So you're saying fast food isn't food. Which was my point...

So tell us what's your definition of art???

UltraMagnus · Oct 20, 2019

Big_Blue said:
So you're saying fast food isn't food. Which was my point...

How dare you sir. There's nothing as exquisite as a crisp, fresh Big Mac with fresh french fries made from pure Madison potatoes and an icy cool Coca-Cola with the flavor only McDonalds can provide. And for the discriminating gentleman, a classy Apple Pie or perhaps a delectable Blizzard treat to finish off one's culinary experience.

Alice · Oct 20, 2019

Wamb0wneD said:
But I do like these movies. I also like playing CoD from time to time. Comparing Warhol to the MCU is fucking ridiculous lol.

I'm not sure that what Coppola or Scorsese meant with cinemea is some textbook definition of it. They sem to feel like the MCU is lacking thought and depth.

If you're gonna waste my time arguing with me, you should read what I said more carefully. People were saying what Warhol was doing wasn't art either, for a long ass time he was faced with the exact shittakes Marvel is facing, mass produced, soulless, not art, etc. But I guess people forget about these things very, very quickly unless it suits their silly bias.

You can't make up your own definition and then act like that's the definition. They said it's not "cinema", they're wrong.

Wamb0wneD · Oct 20, 2019

Dyno said:
That last bit is where the your line of thinking doesnt seem to add up though IMO. I'm not gonna choose McDonalds, if I have the choice I'm going for a fancy steak. That's my preference.

Theres definitely people out there who would choose McDonalds over anything. For some it will be their favourite food in the world. Who am I to tell them they're wrong? What's 'better' goes out the window when it's down to preference.

But I'm not telling them they are wrong, they can enjoy whatever they enjoy. A Burger at McDonalds is still not put together with the same care a steak or fish is at a quality restaurant. Good cooks take years to learn what they are good at. Flipping patties at McD doesn't take any expertise.

Big_Blue said:
So you're saying fast food isn't food. Which was my point...

No I didn't? I'm saying not every food is equal in how it's made and what is required to make it. Some people put hours and days of thought into a recipe, to create something with a unique flavour. They took years of practice to get to a point where they can turn that recipe into reality. Others make a burger at Mc Donalds. They can both be enjoyable, to varying degrees to different people. A lot of people will prefer the burger over whatever that elaborate recipe turned out to be, but they aren't the same thing.

I never said MCU aren't movies, I said they aren't art. Can you stop trying to put words in my mouth? It's not working lol.

Deleted member 36054 · Oct 20, 2019

Wamb0wneD said:
But I'm not telling them they are wrong, they can enjoy whatever they enjoy. A Burger at McDonalds is still not put together with the same care a steak or fish is at a quality restaurant. Good cooks take years to learn what they are good at. Flipping patties at McD doesn't take any expertise.

No I didn't? I'm saying not every food is equal in how it's made and what is required to make it. Some people put hours and days of thought into a recipe, to create something with a unique flavour. They took years of practice to get to a point where they can turn that recipe into reality. Others make a burger at Mc Donalds. They can both be enjoyable, to varying degrees to different people. A lot of people will prefer the burger over whatever that elaborate recipe turned out to be, but they aren't the same thing.

I never said MCU aren't movies, I said they aren't art. Can you stop trying to put words in my mouth? It's not working lol.

So what's art?? Why did you ignore that question??

People didn't hours and days into making a movie like Black Panther?? That's the angle you're taking??

Wamb0wneD · Oct 20, 2019

Alice said:
If you're gonna waste my time arguing with me, you should read what I said more carefully. People were saying what Warhol was doing wasn't art either, for a long ass time he was faced with the exact shittakes Marvel is facing, mass produced, soulless, not art, etc. But I guess people forget about these things very, very quickly unless it suits their silly bias.

You can't make up your own definition and then act like that's the definition. They said it's not "cinema", they're wrong.

Yeah, you're saying that what happened to Warhol could happen to the MCU as well, as if in 30 years people will consider the MCU to be some bastion of quality cinema. That won't happen.

And you can't act like everyone who is using these words is having the same definition as google. Not sure who's wasting Whose time here. Have a nice day.

Deleted member 36054 · Oct 20, 2019

Wamb0wneD said:
Yeah, you're saying that what happened to Warhol could happen to the MCU as well, as if in 30 years people will consider the MCU to be some bastion of quality cinema. That won't happen.

And you can't act like everyone who is using these words is having the same definition as google. Not sure who's wasting Whose time here. Have a nice day.

Tell us. What. is. Art?

Addi · Oct 20, 2019

I'm still astounded at how triggering these kind of comments are for people. Lol

dude · Oct 20, 2019

Holundrian said:
Mmh? I'm talking books as a medium. Why would I arbitrarily make this distinction between a Treatise of Human Nature and another novel?

The Treatise of Human Nature is not a novel though...?
The fact it's a book, doesn't mean it's a novel.

Alice · Oct 20, 2019

Wamb0wneD said:
Yeah, you're saying that what happened to Warhol could happen to the MCU as well, as if in 30 years people will consider the MCU to be some bastion of quality cinema. That won't happen.

And you can't act like everyone who is using these words is having the same definition as google. Not sure who's wasting Whose time here. Have a nice day.

I'm saying what initially happened to Warhol (an assload of vitriol and chagrin, entirely discounting his entire body of work as trash) is happening to the MCU. Doesn't mean they'll be as highly regarded as his works, I never implied that. Again, no one's talking about "quality cinema" or "art" - Scorcese and Coppola don't even want them to be *any* sort of cinema, and that's the issue here.

It's like you make up your half of the stuff you respond to when responding to me, wtf is up with that? Can you not argue without employing strawmen?

Deleted member 18407 · Oct 20, 2019

The worst thing that came with the massive popularity of comic book films is the mainstreaming of the comic book fan's persecution complex.

Deleted member 984 · Oct 20, 2019

Holundrian said:
Mmh? I'm talking books as a medium. Why would I arbitrarily make this distinction between a Treatise of Human Nature and another novel?
I'm not silly like Scorsese trying to arbitrarily make distinctions within the same medium just to elevate their own work.
Books are books man and in the end the medium is superior to anything cinema can and has said so far. The way Scorsese talks about the superiority of cinema just reads as jealousy to what books have accomplished. Got bad news, you#re still in the same kiddy pool as the marvel baby.

But you can clearly see the difference between a Nora Roberts novel, a Jennifer Egan novel, and a Rachel Cusk novel despite all being literature.

UltraMagnus · Oct 20, 2019

Big_Blue said:
So what's art?? Why did you ignore that question??

Having a theme is probably the differentiator Coppolla/Scorcese are looking at.

Category A:

The Godfather
Rocky
Forrest Gump
The Lion King
Avatar

Vs.

Category B:

James Bond movies
Pirates of the Caribbean
Transformers
Marvel films
Justice League
Independence Day

The films in category A have pretty centralized and powerful themes that the story is really just a carrier to get the theme across really.

Category B? Not so much. If there's a theme there, it's fairly shallow and not really integral to the story.

Alice · Oct 20, 2019

GC- said:
But you can clearly see the difference between a Nora Roberts novel, a Jennifer Egan novel, and a Rachel Cusk novel despite all being literature.

That doesn't make those that are "lesser" not books. ;)

I dislike Harry Potter a lot, I still don't go around telling people they're not books or literature.

Wamb0wneD · Oct 20, 2019

Big_Blue said:
So what's art?? Why did you ignore that question??

People didn't hours and days into making a movie like Black Panther?? That's the angle you're taking??

You never adressed what I actually wrote but tried to get some really dumb gotcha out of me.

You try this shit again with your second sentence. I gave an example of two different approaches to making food. That doesn't mean I said "Black Panther didn't take hours and days", so no that's not the angle I'm taking. I can guarantee you though, the amount of thought put into characters, sets, cinematography and other details in a movie like Godfather was a different one than Black Panther, yes. The whole approach to making a movie is different. Even the reason that lead to making the movie is a different one.

Snowybreak · Oct 20, 2019

Alright, so, I'm a bit late to the discussion, but are we really doing this "art vs. not art" thing? Feels like I've been transported back to 9th grade.

Alice · Oct 20, 2019

UltraMagnus said:
*snip*

You just... seriously listed The Lion King and Avatar with the likes of Godfather? You've got to be trolling now.

dude · Oct 20, 2019

UltraMagnus said:
Having a theme is probably the differentiator Coppolla/Scorcese are looking at.

Category A:

The Godfather
Rocky
Forrest Gump
The Lion King
Avatar

Vs.

Category B:

James Bond movies
Pirates of the Caribbean
Transformers
Marvel films
Justice League
Independence Day

The films in category A have pretty centralized and powerful themes that the story is really just a carrier to get the theme across really.

Category B? Not so much. If there's a theme there, it's fairly shallow and not really integral to the story.

To be fair, some films straddle the line between A and B, and it's not as clear cut, but Marvel films are definitely not there, and are not even trying to be there.
(I won't go into the movies you actually chose to include in A, because... Avatar? really?)

Deleted member 36054 · Oct 20, 2019

UltraMagnus said:
Having a theme is probably the differentiator Coppolla/Scorcese are looking at.

Category A:

The Godfather
Rocky
Forrest Gump
The Lion King
Avatar

Vs.

Category B:

James Bond movies
Pirates of the Caribbean
Transformers
Marvel films
Justice League
Independence Day

The films in category A have pretty centralized and powerful themes that the story is really just a carrier to get the theme across really.

Category B? Not so much. If there's a theme there, it's fairly shallow and not really integral to the story.

Hahahaha, Avatar??? Really. The costumes in Black Panther alone have deeper themes and more creativity than Black Panther. How self-important to think than an opinion like this can keep the gate of art.

The difference is, I'm not as arrogant to say that Avatar isn't art. Because it is. I just don't like it.

Deleted member 56580 · Oct 20, 2019

Damn straight Coppola, Marvel did output like maybe 4 good movies and the conclusion was laughable

Dyno · Oct 20, 2019

Wamb0wneD said:
But I'm not telling them they are wrong, they can enjoy whatever they enjoy. A Burger at McDonalds is still not put together with the same care a steak or fish is at a quality restaurant. Good cooks take years to learn what they are good at. Flipping patties at McD doesn't take any expertise.

I dont disagree with this but..

Wamb0wneD said:
No? I say that it's enjoyable, but that it's not as good as a meal you can get at a good restaurant. And that anyone who is arguing otherwise is being delusional.

This is entirely subjective to the individuals tastes. Regardless of how much better trained the chef is, or how much work he put into a dish. Of course they cant argue the difference in expertise required between a gourmet chef and a burger flipper, but the quality of the end result is purely opinion regardless.

UltraMagnus · Oct 20, 2019

Alice said:
You just... seriously listed The Lion King and Avatar with the likes of Godfather? You've got to be trolling now.

It's not reflective of quality, but story structure and design. Like Lion King or Avatar or not but themes of those films are central to the experience of the film.

Avatar isn't just about "wacky adventures of blue peoples and shit" it's a fairly on the nose allegory and messaging towards human beings and how they treat nature and ecology. If you didn't get that, you're pretty fucking dense, but I'm pretty sure you understood that watching the film.

Whereas ... Ant-Man or Thor 2 or Goldfinger or Pirates of the Caribbean ... yeah not so much of message really there at all. That's not an insignificant difference it's kind of a big part of storytelling.

Lifejumper · Oct 20, 2019

Edgar said:
Alright, who was it?

This was sarcasm right?

because 3000+ likes jfc.

Francis Ford Coppola backs Scorsese in row over Marvel films

User requested account closure

Literally a train safety expert

Ghostwire: BooShock

Deleted member 22750

Literally a train safety expert

User requested ban

AVALANCHE

Best Avatar Thread Ever!

User requested account closure

User requested account closure

User requested account closure

AVALANCHE