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Lunar Wolf

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Nov 6, 2017
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It is kind of sad that Show Tyrion has never been loved before. Especially considering he's a wholly good character on the show (since killing his father, of course) but still can't find anyone to love him. Poor Tyrion. As dark as his story has gotten in the books, at least he knows he was loved at some point in his life.

Show Shae genuinely loved Tyrion.
 

Plywood

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Oct 25, 2017
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Random nonsensical, baseless speculation:

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"We could stay a thousand years "

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But really, I can't help but notice how similar the landscape is and yes I know different locations, still her line feels like some foreshadowing.
 

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,085
Her sleeping with his dad after everything his dad had done to him makes that really hard to believe. She even used the "my lion" line with Tywin like she did with Tyrion.


You don't do that to someone you love. Especially so soon after "loving" them.
You're overlooking the complete power imbalance between the head of a noble house and a sex worker in this medieval setting

She didn't have much of a choice. She was surviving
 

Turin

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Punished Goku

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Oct 25, 2017
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Apologies in advance for the time you spend. Its like a rabbit hole. Once you start its hard to stop.


The best part though is when you try and read the books after knowing the theories and start noticing all the clues and evidence lol
Lol never read the books, so coming from a mainly show perspective has me wildly fascinated.
Catelyn worrying about Jon usurping her children is literally in one of her first chapters in the series:



It's why she's happy that he's going to join ye Night's Watch.

And you know, Jon is a Stark too and can be legitimized as one. He also looks like a Stark unlike his siblings. This is a society that places a lot of importance on appearance.

It's why there is a stigma against bastards. They're a threat to noble families.

And her fears are brought up again when Robb legitimized Jon as a Stark.



And Cat's fears are completely realized when Jon becomes King in the North over her children so...yeah.
everyone is happy that Jon is king of the north while Cat is rolling in her grave.
He's probably the most changed character from book to show. I mean the only similarity is that they're ruthless and want to watch the world burn.

And I think I know what happened. D & D didn't intend to do the Iron Islands story. They said so when they were choosing between adapting Dorne or the Iron Islands story for season 5.

So a lot of what they lifted from Book Euron's role, they gave to the Night King since he's their creation.

Stuff like breaking the Wall, riding a dragon and connection to the Three Eyed Raven is Euron's thing especially since the Night King is show-only(as D & D admitted it). Euron/Sauron. Think about it. ; )

Then Dorne was a bust and they decided to bring in the Iron Islands and Euron after all for season 6 to eat up screentime. It's why Theon showing up to the Iron Islands is kinda random almost.

But they already had the Night King so they just stripped off all the magical parts from Euron(which are the chunks that made him intriguing) and turned him into another mundane villain.
So in the books, Euron has the NK's Powers? Is he the antagonist whose suppose to go against the living and side with the WW's?
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
I don't think Tysha will be brought up again. I just want to know if people believe Tysha's history mirrors the books but is just unstated or if she has a different backstory. I don't think D&D have ever commented on this but I imagine they cut out that reveal because it would be damn hard for Jamie and Tyrion to ever reconcile.

EDIT -- Though if they do want to create a riff between Jamie and Tyrion, they could be saving the confession for that. Who knows? Right now, if details between book and show conflict, that means there are two different canons. If a detail is in one medium but not the other, I assume that fact only exists in one medium. Book Tysha loved Tyrion, Show Jamie is dyslexic.

The thing is 99% of the viewers don't remember who the heck Tysha is.
 

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,085
everyone is happy that Jon is king of the north while Cat is rolling in her grave.

So in the books, Euron has the NK's Powers? Is he the antagonist whose suppose to go against the living and side with the WW's?
Well, she's not exactly rolling, lol


The Night King and White Walkers are way way way more explicit in the show. They are called The Others in the books, and the first scene from the first episode/first chapter of the first book and when Sam fights and kills one is all we see of them. The rest is just legend and rumor that people talk about. The books are all from first person perspectives of a single character per chapter. So there's no *WHOOSH* "now we're seeing far north of the wall as the Night king gathers with his White Walkers and transform a baby" scenes, and all of the magic and prophecy stuff is filtered through a subjective lens of whatever character's head you're currently in. The show has to be more explicit and literal with some things, which gives it a different tone.

Euron in the books is up to some kind of large scale blood magic ritual, but it's unclear how much of what he says is boasting and lies, and how much is true. He's definitely a very bad guy, though. He is an antagonist, but the conflicts in the books are much more widespread and still disconnected. The show has pulled everyone together from across the world, but the books aren't there yet.
 
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BlackFyre

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,430
That's what I thought. But yeah he just came up when I was talking to a friend if there's anyone else who would know about Jon real parents.

Also for sure, no way D&D would have Howland Reed come in now.

Edit:
I remember he was with Ned and refuses to leave the neck but it's been awhile since I read the book so I wasn't sure.

They could bring Howland Reed in to give legitimacy to Jon's crown.
 

Punished Goku

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,960
Well, she's not exactly rolling, lol


The Night King and White Walkers are way way way more explicit in the show. They are called The Others in the books, and the first scene from the first episode/first chapter of the first book and when Sam fights and kills one is all we see of them. The rest is just legend and rumor that people talk about. The books are all from first person perspectives of a single character per chapter. So there's no *WHOOSH* "now we're seeing far north of the wall as the Night king gathers with his White Walkers and transform a baby" scenes, and all of the magic and prophecy stuff is filtered through a subjective lens of whatever character's head you're currently in. The show has to be more explicit and literal with some things, which gives it a different tone.
So their barely in the books?
Also upon further thought. What if the spiral design the umber boy was impaled too was the Night Kings sigil. A way to identify himself.
 

bye

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,435
Phoenix, AZ
Random nonsensical, baseless speculation:



But really, I can't help but notice how similar the landscape is and yes I know different locations, still her line feels like some foreshadowing.

I hope we see more of the WW home like this and get more info about them in general. Them bringing back the ominous symbols this last episode kinda gives me hope they are going to expand on their lore.

So their barely in the books?
Also upon further thought. What if the spiral design the umber boy was impaled too was the Night Kings sigil. A way to identify himself.

Hardhome in the books doesn't even include a WW battle. There are rumors of them being there, but nothing laid out as plainly as the show. And Jon doesn't go there.
 

Dream Machine

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Oct 25, 2017
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So their barely in the books?
Also upon further thought. What if the spiral design the umber boy was impaled too was the Night Kings sigil. A way to identify himself.
People talk about them and see the wights in the books, but we only see them directly a couple of times. Jon receives a letter about what's happening at Hardhome pleading for help and talking about "dead things in the water", rather than going there to fight himself, for example.
 

Punished Goku

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,960
I hope we see more of the WW home like this and get more info about them in general. Them bringing back the ominous symbols this last episode kinda gives me hope they are going to expand on their lore.



Hardhome in the books doesn't even include a WW battle. There are rumors of them being there, but nothing laid out as plainly as the show. And Jon doesn't go there.
People talk about them and see the wights in the books, but we only see them directly a couple of times. Jon receives a letter about what's happening at Hardhome pleading for help and talking about "dead things in the water", rather than going there to fight himself, for example.
So does Jon die yet in the books?
You are going to be so lost lol there are ALOT of characters and storylines in the books that don't exist in the show.
at this point I'm actually tempted to read the books.
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659
at this point I'm actually tempted to read the books.
You should, they'll all great.

They're even better if you're already a fan of the show since it shows you a different take on the stories but also you get some completely new stuff that had to be dropped because the show can't be 50 episodes each season.
 

Lunar Wolf

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Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
So in the books, Euron has the NK's Powers? Is he the antagonist whose suppose to go against the living and side with the WW's?

Potentially, yes. There are allusions there. He's definitely positioned in a Night's King role. Not the show Night King who is the ancestor of all the White Walkers but the historical Night King that was a human that allied with the White Walkers. Or the Bloodstone Emperor who is said to have been the human that started the Long Night.

But he's not Sauron. He's more like Saruman. He's even in the process of conquering Oldtown and taking the Hightower(the tall as tower in the show) as his base complete with the GOT equivalent of a palantir there that allows him to do long distance communication.

His ultimate goal seems to be to ride a wave of chaos, marry Daenerys, become a dragon-rider and ascend to godhood like Bran and become some sort of Eldricht dragon-riding God-King of the world.


Euron seated himself and gave his cloak a twitch, so it covered his private parts. "I had forgotten what a small and noisy folk they are, my ironborn. I would bring them dragons, and they shout out for grapes."

"Grapes are real. A man can gorge himself on grapes. Their juice is sweet, and they make wine. What do dragons make?"

"Woe." The Crow's Eye sipped from his silver cup.

"There is the window. Leap." Victarion had no patience for this. His wounded hand was troubling him. "What do you want?"

"The world." Firelight glimmered in Euron's eye. His smiling eye.

....

"They are of your body."

"So are the contents of my chamber pot. None is fit to sit the Seastone Chair, much less the Iron Throne. No, to make an heir that's worthy of him, I need a different woman. When the kraken weds the dragon, brother, let all the world beware."

"The last of her line. They say she is the fairest woman in the world. Her hair is silver-gold, and her eyes are amethysts . . . but you need not take my word for it, brother. Go to Slaver's Bay, behold her beauty, and bring her back to me."

.....

"The bleeding star bespoke the end," he said to Aeron. "These are the last days, when the world shall be broken and remade. A new god shall be born from the graves and charnel pits." Then Euron lifted a great horn to his lips and blew, and dragons and krakens and sphinxes came at his command and bowed before him. "Kneel, brother," the Crow's Eye commanded. "I am your king, I am your god. Worship me, and I will raise you up to be my priest."

"Never. No godless man may sit the Seastone Chair!"

"Why would I want that hard black rock? Brother, look again and see where I am seated."

Aeron Damphair looked. The mound of skulls was gone. Now it was metal underneath the Crow's Eye: a great, tall, twisted seat of razor sharp iron, barbs and blades and broken swords, all dripping blood.

.....

The dreams were even worse the second time. He saw the longships of the Ironborn adrift and burning on a boiling blood-red sea. He saw his brother on the Iron Throne again, but Euron was no longer human. He seemed more squid than man, a monster fathered by a kraken of the deep, his face a mass of writhing tentacles. Beside him stood a shadow in woman's form, long and tall and terrible, her hands alive with pale white fire. Dwarves capered for their amusement, male and female, naked and misshapen, locked in carnal embrace, biting and tearing at each other as Euron and his mate laughed and laughed and laughed …
 

Lunar Wolf

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Nov 6, 2017
16,237
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So does Jon die yet in the books?

Yeah. He's been dead for 8 years since the release of the fifth book. Any day now, GRRM. ;-;

If you're a slow reader then I recommend to start reading. If you're a fast reader then wait until TWOW is announced or ar least after the show is done.

Same endpoints between book and show so you'll catch some cool foreshadowing from the ending in book one.

There's apparently a scene in the first book that directly foreshadows the final scene of the series.
 

Gigglepoo

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Oct 25, 2017
8,317
I would have loved to see Game of Thrones spread out to 100 episodes. 10 seasons with 10 episodes each would have given more time for the story to develop and they could have included a few cut storylines and/or characters.

Oh well. Maybe we'll get an animated version once the books are finished.
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
I would have loved to see Game of Thrones spread out to 100 episodes. 10 seasons with 10 episodes each would have given more time for the story to develop and they could have included a few cut storylines and/or characters.

Oh well. Maybe we'll get an animated version once the books are finished.

I'd love an animated series. 10 seasons would have been too long, you would have ended up with important actors leaving along the way.
 

Coyote Starrk

The Fallen
Oct 30, 2017
53,802
So does Jon die yet in the books?

at this point I'm actually tempted to read the books.
I would HIGHLY recommend them. The way they are written is fantastic. You go from character to character and see the events evolve from their perspective.


And like I said there are theories galore. The show is great, but shallow in terms of the lore and detail. The books are the ocean by comparison.
 

BlackFyre

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,430
Lol. True true.

But he could continue to hide that part of the lie :)
The Reeds come to Winterfell to join other houses for war.

I think Bran would expose him.

"You came from behind him and stabbed him. My father picked up the Dayne family sword and cut his throat".

Meera Reed: "Father, is this true?"

Howland Reed: "uhhh"
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,318
So does Jon die yet in the books?

at this point I'm actually tempted to read the books.

Been dead for 8 years, and his stabbing by his fellow brothers was actually justified instead of the nonsense in the show. Jon actually earned his stabbing in the books. He fully broke his vows to the NW and declared treason.

It should be noted, that the BIG thing us book watchers want to know is how Jon will change upon being resurrected. In the show, there doesn't seem to be a lick of difference and no one really seems to care despite this guy rising from the dead. I HIGHLY doubt Book Jon being resurrected will be exactly the same as he was before he was stabbed to death.
 

Burrman

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Oct 25, 2017
7,633
The Reeds come to Winterfell to join other houses for war.

I think Bran would expose him.

"You came from behind him and stabbed him. My father picked up the Dayne family sword and cut his throat".

Meera Reed: "Father, is this true?"

Howland Reed: "uhhh"
I don't think Bran would be that much of a snitch. Lol
 

Ether_Snake

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
11,306
You know, Jaime killed Dany's father, so I could see Sansa helping out Jaime in his trial just to spite Dany.
I also think Brienne might just shut up if Sansa doesn't seem inclined to help him.
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,997
That was an issue for me. It's not like he was best friends with his brother either. And now he's illgoically butthurt with Danaerys.

"There's a difference between not liking one's brother and not caring when some dumb Irish flatfoot drops him out of a window."

Am I the only one that doesn't like Arya?

Anyone I talk to loves her. She was tolerable in the books, but her level of bull crap in the show is so irritating.

Hope she dies.

She's been wasted. Killing the Freys was cool, but other than that I don't think they've done anything good with her in a looong while. I hope they redeem her character rather than just kill her though. This episode I just didn't buy any of her emotions. It all felt...off.
 

Gigglepoo

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,317
It feels important that the Night's Watch had a damn good reason to assassinated Jon in the books. He has to learn how to properly rule, and even though his intentions were mostly altruistic, he ultimately failed.

Show Jon learned nothing because his actions as Lord Commander were justified. He was just saddled with Night's Watchmen.
 

Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
this actually feels like massive spoilers, I'm shocked he was so revealing

I think he was being more direct than people realize, I'm almost positive there will be time travel shenanigans again now

I think this basically confirms to me that the Lord of Light and Bran are either the same person or are the same role.

And the Night King is the equivalent of the Great Other.
 
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