[Gameplay wise] Should FF17 be an iterative entry based on one of the past FFs?
- Thread starter Son of Sparda
- Start date
- Square Enix
I liked all their battle system since X (minus maybe release XV), incl. spinoffs (at least those I played), so I'm ipen to anything they decide to do.
Man, just imagine Remake combat with gambits for the 2 AI companion...
I'd love them to try the VIIR system but without Stagger, so it'd have them pace fights differently. Rebirth is their best attempt at the Stagger idea yet, but we've had 6 iterations of it now and it seems like they're hitting their creative ceiling with what they can do with it.
I feel like the biggest issue with Rebirth is that it's tied to existing games so it's really hard to recommend to new players. I'd love to see them use similar systems but with a brand new world and cast of characters.
Agreed.
The Gambit systen wouldn't work with 7R at all. I think they could totally just re-use 12s combat system with some modern tweaks and it would be gold.
It would suck because....?
As it is the AI is shit at building ATB, and when it does either you use the autocast materia (that is an extremely bad gambit you can't control), or you can launch one of their ability depending on certain conditions (i.e. a gambit).
It's like textboon the reason why they did the gambit system.
(There's already some form of gambit with the materia that autocast and uses personal and weapon ability)
They should treat the VII Remake/Rebirth battle system (and general formula with the missions, map etc.) the way they treated ATB in the SNES-PS1 days and just iterate upon that for the next 1 or 2 mainline games.
After the radical gameplay changes from the last few entries, settling on something a bit safer and refining the formula would be a good idea. I would go with something similar to Rebirth with a twist.
In terms of setting, it's time we went back to something classic. I would love another Ivalice-linked FF, but leaning on that (especially without Matsuno at the helm) is inadvisable. I would prefer a Matsuno-backed Tactics revival, but who knows if that will ever happen. We've had a lot of the more Sci-fi or Contemporary settings since IX. I imagine this is a calculated move to appeal to a wider audience, but if you take a step back and look at the games we've had in the last 20 years, it would be nice to have something a bit more whimsical or nostalgic.
In terms of setting, it's time we went back to something classic. I would love another Ivalice-linked FF, but leaning on that (especially without Matsuno at the helm) is inadvisable. I would prefer a Matsuno-backed Tactics revival, but who knows if that will ever happen. We've had a lot of the more Sci-fi or Contemporary settings since IX. I imagine this is a calculated move to appeal to a wider audience, but if you take a step back and look at the games we've had in the last 20 years, it would be nice to have something a bit more whimsical or nostalgic.
I would love for it to revisit traditional jobs.
My dream scenario would be to take the job / subjob system of XI and combine that with a faster, more action oriented combat system like XIV.
XI is too slow these days, but it wouldn't need to be as fast a XIV either so a middle ground would be perfect for me.
My dream scenario would be to take the job / subjob system of XI and combine that with a faster, more action oriented combat system like XIV.
XI is too slow these days, but it wouldn't need to be as fast a XIV either so a middle ground would be perfect for me.
I don't think many people would be happy with tab-target MMO gameplay for a single player mainline FF. FFXIV has an exceptional team behind its encounter designs, but the gameplay on its own is a bit long in the tooth. Bringing the jobs back to the forefront would be nice though, I agree. So far that aspect has been relegated to spinoffs. Play FF Origins: Stranger of Paradise. It's so good! It's a great co-op game too.
I also hope that whatever FF they end up making next either has a slimmed down open world with tighter pacing, or something more linear. Rebirth was an improvement in many areas, but its open world and pacing was an uninspired slog. Chapter 12, 13 and 14 were the best sections because the pacing was tighter and the maps were smaller. Map traversal was also less obstructive. Chapter 13 was almost entirely linear. Why can't we have a bit more of that?
Yes they should, I'm playing FF16 and man the game is really bland there is nothing to do in the world except fighting the same few monsters available on repeat no hidden dungeon, no mini games, no random interaction, the open world just looks good and there is nothing else to it, as the houses and the town in general are some of the worst I have ever seen, they all look exactly the same.. I'm
character except Cid and the main are boring and soulless, gameplay base is good but it will shine a lot in sequel, new weapons for example seriously how can AAA open world hame only have 1 weapon for the whole game in 2024.
Reusing content is the way to get amazing games.
character except Cid and the main are boring and soulless, gameplay base is good but it will shine a lot in sequel, new weapons for example seriously how can AAA open world hame only have 1 weapon for the whole game in 2024.
Reusing content is the way to get amazing games.
This is becoming the reality for me, and I didn't ever think this would happen. Guess I can KINDA trust Nomura with KH, but that's literally just for the combat at this point.
I did and really liked it!
I guess if you took the combat of XVI and based abilities on jobs instead of Eikons, you'd probably end up in that direction.
Totally agree here as well.
Vibes of the world and tone of the story aside, FF16 was otherwise some classic FF type shit to my eyes.
Magic crystals of great significance, check
Warring kingdoms, check
Brooding twink protag whose heart steadily thaws with the power of friendship and purpose, check
All your fav summons, check
Really the only thing missing was the whimsy. But what it lacked in whimsy it made up for in Geordie accents, which is definitely at least whmsy-adjacent.
But yeah, 16 was very nostalgic for me, tbh.
I just want a full party in FF XVII with specified classes.
If that means it takes inspiration of AI teammates/class specific roles from Dogma 2 with smooth Nier-like action, or a more modernized take on FFXII with ATB combat, I'm down.
Also, would love a return to exploration.
If that means it takes inspiration of AI teammates/class specific roles from Dogma 2 with smooth Nier-like action, or a more modernized take on FFXII with ATB combat, I'm down.
Also, would love a return to exploration.
My dream FF XVII that I'm sure won't happen:
-Remake/Rebirth combat
-Party switching, probably 4-5 characters
-Modern fantasy setting ala VIII or XV
-World structure and exploration of XII
-3-4 really good minigames, there needs to be a balance between XVI and Rebirth.
-Tone of XV
-Job system
-Woman protagonist
-World building on par with the Ivalice games
-Hunts just being out in the world like XVI, though with the amount and lore of XII
Pipe dream I'm sure.
-Remake/Rebirth combat
-Party switching, probably 4-5 characters
-Modern fantasy setting ala VIII or XV
-World structure and exploration of XII
-3-4 really good minigames, there needs to be a balance between XVI and Rebirth.
-Tone of XV
-Job system
-Woman protagonist
-World building on par with the Ivalice games
-Hunts just being out in the world like XVI, though with the amount and lore of XII
Pipe dream I'm sure.
Oh man, taking a few lessons from DD2 would be amazing. It's my GotY so far. It does so many inventive, unique things you rarely see nowadays in big Triple A games. Square Enix could never.
I would also love to revisit and expand upon FF12s direction. In a way, FFXII kind of did the hybrid real time ATB system before remake did. It was just less action focused. Introducing a gambit system into rebirth's combat system could be an interesting direction.
I want XVI gameplay with a playable party and combos if they do action or pure turnbased like X if they do turnbased.
New world etc. but I dont want them to throw out all gameplay systems again. Franchise needs a consistent throughline.
New world etc. but I dont want them to throw out all gameplay systems again. Franchise needs a consistent throughline.
Because you are supposed to switch, you are not supposed to play one character only. AI is defensive for a reason so that you can build up ATB and do actions that you want by switching or via tactical mode. It's an evolution of the battle system of the original. Gambits would destroy this battle system as it would remove the usefulness of character switching and remove any need for the ATB. At that point your better off making an action game with gambits.
But the AI completel sucks at building ATB?
You could still force or make switching control desireable by tying the gambits to maeteria, or limiting the possible combinations or something (or heck, having varied encounter design so that you setup the gambits for the voring stuff, and have to switch characters for novel stuff).
Because as is you spend way to much time having to micromanage the AIs ATB (for it to be ready for a stagger), healing, and staggering the ennemy.
(And again, they recognized this issue and introduced the auto-X materia)
They're saying that the AI deliberately builds ATB slowly because they want the player to switch - which is true, though I would argue it was a design concession for other reasons as well. I agree with you that it feels bad and doesn't work optimally.
The band-aid solution of materia was a terrible solution as well. It feels so bad equipping materia that does something simple like using weapon abilities, weapon skills or auto-casting. The game has far too much materia, so attaching basic AI functionality to yet more materia feels so limiting and unrewarding. This is something they should solve before part 3.
Skill trees did fix a few of the core problems remake introduced like having elemental spells outside of materia available because you simply can't account for everything with the vast array of materia types. Maybe they could put some of the AI control in there with a toggle function.
Eh. The new SaGas are too fucking hard. It's not a good comparison point because a lot of people literally cannot even play SG or EB because the combat is too complex.
Yes, it's a good case study for how complex turn-based combat can theoretically be, but doing that for 80+ hours would wear out the majority of the audience.
i dont find much sense in iterating through the ATB's combat system. they already did that with Rebirth and they are gonna do that again for Part 3. unless they make some pretty heavy changes with it, i'd say 3 games with a system would probably the ceiling they would iterate on something and then try something new
i'd rather they iterate on XV's open world than something like Rebirth's, tbh. not only the dungeons, but the giant animals on the field, camping with the boys and making food, less but better minigames like fishing, and the night being something to "prepare" for (not really in XV, since balancing was wack). it was a much better blueprint imo, even if XV didnt execute it really well (not that Rebirth's open world is much better)
yeah I feel like the materia for Rebirth was a real letdown. its....not fun equipping materia for my characters to just do normal things. OG VII had some of the craziest shit ever you could with Materia, granted, turn based is a much better system for materia than ARPG but the "solution" they found for it was a big letdown imo
Vaguely agree with a lot of the list outside what I put a strike through…. and now to address the asterisks which piled up more than I would have liked lol
* I agree in terms of template but I'd prefer a more subdued take from the action standpoint. This would increase incentive for a more strategic use of the combat system (which you're perfectly capable of in the Remake saga but I feel you have to already be inclined to stubbornly use it that way in many situations for that to shine). I like that action plays an integral role but I think I would prefer the party feel more vulnerable with less bombastic capabilities. That doesn't have to mean go full Dark Souls/Bloodborne with it but… maybe a go half way? 😅
** I'd be over the moon for 4 party members at once with the FFX style "tag in" system
*** That's….. fine but I think I'd be as welcoming to something uncanny for the series. For example, maybe a mix of FF8-esque with a tone and style similar Folklore(2007) or maybe throw in some Del Toro style weirdness(like in the first Lords of Shadow) or, you know, just something completely unexpected by anyone.
**** Yes but obviously as long as the level design is visually distinct and textured in order to invite a sense of wonder and exploration (and no or at least minimal use of way trackers)
***** I think a couple more gameplay deviations than that are fine
****** Absolutely and I'd also like to see a badass non-white male character whose presence isn't muted by a creators lack of enthusiasm. Like a character with screen presence like Dev Patel has when he wants to
I'd also throw out that maybe the story doesn't always have to be world event epic? I'd be into a more intimate, less loud Final Fantasy. 🤷♂️
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I think XV just did a really good job nailing a good balance of goofy party antics, and serious moments that needed it...it's just the quality of the serious moments themselves that struggled.
*I'd be for that, I mostly just want some combination of action and ATB. I think at it's core it is a beautiful blend of the classic gameplay, with more modern contemporary action.
**That does sound really nice, though I'd want what XII did where if your current party goes down you can still call on the reserves to either get people up, finish the fight, or retreat.
***This is just a personal preference, I LOVE the settings of VIII and XV so much and am always going to be down to see it done again. That said, it may be better to wait a few more entries to do it again. Would be down for just about any new theme they could think of.
****Yeah, that would be needed. XII exactly would likely be repetitive for a modern game. I just want that level of discovery again, not a single game has matched it since, with only XV coming close. I just prefer interconnected zones to a full on open world.
*****100%. More diverse characters in general would be amazing, I really do hope they continue to progress in that area.
I'd be very down for a smaller, more personal FF...though I sadly don't see a mainline game doing that.
Well, that's kinda FF13. I'm all for it, that system was great once they stipped handholding you.
Replaying OG right now, one things they definitely made better: switching materia in OG is one very frustrating menu exercise. That happens often because they keep changing your party.
Gameplay wise that really isn't true, and story wise I don't think anyone wants the mainline games to be iterative in that regard.
What isn't true?
You're not going to rush out to buy a chapter 2 of the same story if you haven't played chapter 1.
Gameplay wise there is nothing to be gained from starting at Remake instead of Rebirth. They both effectively start you at ground zero.
Story wise, no one is saying they should make the mainline series continuous from each other. Which is why Rebirth is harder to get into.
The interesting thing with wanting FFXVII to be something completely new, is that i can't really imagine something that is really different from both FFX, XII, XIII, XV and XVI.
If SE try to make FFXVII as mainstream as they can, like with an open world and dunno, DD style combat, it would feel kinda iterative of XV, even on accident.
I feel like the only thing left that is viable as something completely new is a Soulslike, and we have to disconsider SoP.
Tbh i would love a Jrpg that plays like party based Souls, like Code Vein but with 4 characters instead of 2. It seems like balancing hell, though.
If SE try to make FFXVII as mainstream as they can, like with an open world and dunno, DD style combat, it would feel kinda iterative of XV, even on accident.
I feel like the only thing left that is viable as something completely new is a Soulslike, and we have to disconsider SoP.
Tbh i would love a Jrpg that plays like party based Souls, like Code Vein but with 4 characters instead of 2. It seems like balancing hell, though.
I don't feel that's the view of more casual players.
Personally I've not picked up part 1 yet so wouldn't even consider Rebirth.
If you think that's wrong then that says more about the marketing/offering than my own view.
I feel like you just didn't get what the poster you quoted is saying.
A FFXVII being iterative of Rebirth means it would have a combat system and exploration similar to it, and just that.
It would happen in a new universe, would be standalone, wouldn't have the direct sequel problem.
Would you consider picking up FF8 without playing 7?
Because that is effectively what most are asking for. Similar structures and gameplay with entirely new worlds and casts.
Exactly this, thank you.
I consider 7 and 8 to be separate games/stories.
I played the OG Final Fantasy VII and from afar consider the remake to be broken down into 3 chapters due to size where I would need to play from chapter 1 to get the most from it.
I would get no story/character benefit from playing 7 before 8 since there is no continued story or character connections unlike with Rebirth.
This is how it comes across to non hardcore FF players anyway.
CBU3 and CBU1 should both iterate and build on their respective styles. The series has shown that it has room for more than one gameplay style, but the constant reinvention is not good for the franchise health.
I think CBU3 should do XVII (and should ideally be working on it's pre-prod right now), and CBU1 should do XVIII after they're finished with the Remake trilogy.
I think CBU3 should do XVII (and should ideally be working on it's pre-prod right now), and CBU1 should do XVIII after they're finished with the Remake trilogy.
Yes. Correct.
Which is the point of the thread, that 17 could build on the gameplay of either Rebirth or 16, with an all new world just how the series did from 4-9, instead of reinventing the wheel like how 10-16 did.
The story is why Rebirth is harder to get into, because it is a narrative sequel. No one is asking for mainline games to be narrative sequels to each other.