Horror is not always equal to torture porn. Argueably great horror often dosn't rely on shock gore and torture.
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"Gamer" culture, shock value, and The Last of US Part II Trailer
- Thread starter KuwabaraTheMan
- Start date
Horror is not always equal to torture porn. Argueably great horror often dosn't rely on shock gore and torture.
As a guy who still hasn't played TLOU yet (apologies in advance), part of me wonders if people are really going to try and tie the trailer we got today with the whole idea being a gamer in other social medias. If anything else, I probably would say that what we saw would be on par with what we would see in other movies and shows that cover the topic of a "post-apocalyptic" world where people would do rather sickening things in order to either get a point across or to establish authority.
The only difference I can see here is how there wasn't really any cuts and it played in one smooth violent sequence. If anyone is really going to try and raise hell over this trailer (like the aforementioned Fox News about the "Mass Effect Sex Scene" or insert any random GTA article just because...) then perhaps The Walking Dead TV Show just hasn't triggered people as effectively as a small trailer by Naughty Dog.
The only difference I can see here is how there wasn't really any cuts and it played in one smooth violent sequence. If anyone is really going to try and raise hell over this trailer (like the aforementioned Fox News about the "Mass Effect Sex Scene" or insert any random GTA article just because...) then perhaps The Walking Dead TV Show just hasn't triggered people as effectively as a small trailer by Naughty Dog.
Its an adult game in post apocalyptic era. Where humans are assholes, because there are no real laws/rules.
Why is it okay in TV series like The Walking Dead, but it isn't in TLOU? It's a made up story/world. A fantasy story. A gruel, brutal world. You can enjoy this story/world, or you can ignore it. But there is no reason to complain about its existence imho. If it's too brutal for you, well then it's not a game for you. Simple as that.
Same goes for Detroit. A story about an abusive dad beating/killing its child. Guess what? It happens. It happens a lot. There is no reason to not allow such a story for a game, just because it's something evil. Movies can use it, books can use it, games can use it. So again, its a brutal cruel world/world. If you don't like it, don't buy/play it. But there is zero reason to complain about its existence.
Why is it okay in TV series like The Walking Dead, but it isn't in TLOU? It's a made up story/world. A fantasy story. A gruel, brutal world. You can enjoy this story/world, or you can ignore it. But there is no reason to complain about its existence imho. If it's too brutal for you, well then it's not a game for you. Simple as that.
Same goes for Detroit. A story about an abusive dad beating/killing its child. Guess what? It happens. It happens a lot. There is no reason to not allow such a story for a game, just because it's something evil. Movies can use it, books can use it, games can use it. So again, its a brutal cruel world/world. If you don't like it, don't buy/play it. But there is zero reason to complain about its existence.
Well I understand that maybe children watching should have been warned about the scene? But...
The marketing for this game is succeeding based on the "oohs and aws" as you mentioned. Are you really trying to say you don't like how this represents gaming in general, gamers specifically or what this game represents(violence)? I personally am glad gaming has come far enough to be represented so diversely where a trailer, as exploitative as it is, can be given center stage at a Press Conference. I love seeing something new that's unexpected and unforgiving. This trailer shows us how different the games medium can be from the likes of Mario or even Uncharted.
The marketing for this game is succeeding based on the "oohs and aws" as you mentioned. Are you really trying to say you don't like how this represents gaming in general, gamers specifically or what this game represents(violence)? I personally am glad gaming has come far enough to be represented so diversely where a trailer, as exploitative as it is, can be given center stage at a Press Conference. I love seeing something new that's unexpected and unforgiving. This trailer shows us how different the games medium can be from the likes of Mario or even Uncharted.
In other forms of media you choose to watch. Nobody watched this presentation expecting to watch Saw 9.
I don't get it either.
It was heavy and dark, but that's The Last of Us...
I agree with this here. I wasn't excited for this trailer, the whole scene had me cringing especially during the knife to the stomach part.
Probably should have given us another trailer instead.
While I dont doubt the game is going to handle this more delicately (at least I hope so), I agree with you OP.
The trailers usually keep it PG so children dont whatch the graphic content, but ths was livestreamed in the same stream they showed guacameele.
It could be that the trailer making you uncomfortable was the whole point.
The trailers usually keep it PG so children dont whatch the graphic content, but ths was livestreamed in the same stream they showed guacameele.
It could be that the trailer making you uncomfortable was the whole point.
Its The Last of Us.
Post apocalyptic. Humans fighting to survive. Survival of the fittest. Zombies... People can be nasty to each other even without the end of the world. Now imagine a world with no more laws. No structure. It would bring out the worst in some people. This game is set in that kind of setting so I dont think its too far. Its the perfect tone for this game.
Post apocalyptic. Humans fighting to survive. Survival of the fittest. Zombies... People can be nasty to each other even without the end of the world. Now imagine a world with no more laws. No structure. It would bring out the worst in some people. This game is set in that kind of setting so I dont think its too far. Its the perfect tone for this game.
You are completely missing the point. His post was not about the fact that the game was violent. It is that violence is a means for something else, it's not the goal in of itself, and their presentation completely confused that.
I think people are misreading the situation and the complaints.
Violence being in games, especially brutal violence, isn't necessarily the issue. I'd argue that most of us would agree that The Last of Us are contextually very dark games about the brutality of the bleak situation the protagonists find themselves in. The complaint is that it seems somewhat bonkers to sell your game on "look how tortured these women get!" It's a bit off-putting, even though I understand the intention is to sell how "dark" their game is. It's just that darkness without context is meaningless violence, and it's a really weird thing to sell your game on. It belies that, perhaps the game's darkness does not actually have context, and that the context that is there is just to hide the fact that we really just want to watch innocent people get tortured.
Violence being in games, especially brutal violence, isn't necessarily the issue. I'd argue that most of us would agree that The Last of Us are contextually very dark games about the brutality of the bleak situation the protagonists find themselves in. The complaint is that it seems somewhat bonkers to sell your game on "look how tortured these women get!" It's a bit off-putting, even though I understand the intention is to sell how "dark" their game is. It's just that darkness without context is meaningless violence, and it's a really weird thing to sell your game on. It belies that, perhaps the game's darkness does not actually have context, and that the context that is there is just to hide the fact that we really just want to watch innocent people get tortured.
What is wrong with more sex and violence in mature games? These are natural human cravings.
The critique people are making here has nothing to do with the content itself ie violence but how the content is framed and contextualed. Important distinction to make.
It's pretty disturbing and not really my cup of tea anymore. Moved away from that kind of games years ago.
If I would have to take a guess, it would be because most of it consists of women being explicitly tortured. Crazy thought, I know.
I was disturbed by both, and for the same reason. Unfortunately David Cage doesn't exactly have the best track record when it comes to using rape and violence against women as cheap drama.
We are adults. But we're talking about tone in public-facing marketing. What you're describing (arbitrary and escalating prurience/brutality) is more along the lines of what a child who thinks that's what adults are all about assumes, and takes at face value when it's marketed to them that way. The way someone like that relishes in things that are built to evoke a completely different reaction is at the crux of the differing reactions here. Many who adored the original Last of Us likely appreciated the games' own line between those two outlooks. The concern here is that the trailer for the sequel may not retain that line.
Promotional materials should represent what players can expect from the actual experience, so obviously you shouldn't hide gruesome aspects of a game if it's fundementally gruesome. But what I'm looking at feels more like melodrama than substance. This isn't about "violence is bad," so much as it's about how a creator uses violence.
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Let me ask - what was that footage actually selling?
Because it certainly wasn't any kind of gameplay that couldn't be presumed to be a QTE.
It certainly wasn't the story because it told me absolutely nothing about who the characters were, what the story was, or why I should care about any of it.
It wasn't even the tone. You could play some music and show the Last of Us Part II logo and people will have a good idea what the tone will be. The reveal trailer just had Ellie playing a guitar, and it set a grim tone, and not a shot was fired or drop of blood spilt on-screen. The Logan trailer set a bleak tone, and it's not like it had to show Wolverine carving peoples' faces to do it.
So what was the point of a torture sequence completely devoid of context?
I'm glad the gaming medium can cover all bases the way movies etc. do. Yes this was violent but in the context of the game and the world it inhabits it makes sense.
Why should gaming be held to a different standard? Aren't gamers always crying out for gaming to be taken seriously as a form of entertainment on par with movies and books etc.??
Don't like the violence? Go play the multitude of other games that aren't.
I love that I have the choice to play a game made of pure joy like Mario and then something completely at the other end of the spectrum like this.
Why should gaming be held to a different standard? Aren't gamers always crying out for gaming to be taken seriously as a form of entertainment on par with movies and books etc.??
Don't like the violence? Go play the multitude of other games that aren't.
I love that I have the choice to play a game made of pure joy like Mario and then something completely at the other end of the spectrum like this.
LMAO that hyperbole, please. There was nothing in this treailer that was not in TLOU, did you expect mario for a TLOu II trailer?
Quoting myself from earlier. There was a age rating before the conference.
Also, no one was forcing you to watch this conference either.
PS, for anyone wondering, this did flash up before the pre-show started on the live stream. So, we can't say there was no content warning in advance.
P.P.S, some of the users here have very tame definitions of "torture porn". I understand everyone doesn't have the same tolerance level, but there was nothing about this footage in terms of violence and gore that we haven't seen in other games before. That it looks so much more real because of the fidelity is just an after-effect of advancing technology and cannot be helped when portraying a realistic environment and characters.
TLOU was pretty violence too. I mean david was a cannibal pedophile who was killed by Ellie in a brutal form.
That scene from TLOU II: It was an uncomfortable scene to watch? yeah. Unexpected ? No, from a game like this.
That scene from TLOU II: It was an uncomfortable scene to watch? yeah. Unexpected ? No, from a game like this.
A warning before showing the trailer would have been useful for people who were upset by it. It was pretty heavy content.
As for me, I love blood, gore, and torture; the imagery appeals to me. I like it in my metal, movies, and games. I grew up on horror films as a kid, so that may be partly why I'm attracted to it across various mediums. Of course, this only applies to fiction, as I'm a total dove in real life matters.
What was shown in the trailer is pretty consistent with the theme of this title.
As for me, I love blood, gore, and torture; the imagery appeals to me. I like it in my metal, movies, and games. I grew up on horror films as a kid, so that may be partly why I'm attracted to it across various mediums. Of course, this only applies to fiction, as I'm a total dove in real life matters.
What was shown in the trailer is pretty consistent with the theme of this title.
That's a good question. Didn't ND gave some lame technical limitation explanation for no female infected in first TLoU? They don't have this excuse now.
I'll agree that putting such a trailer up live at a trade show is probably not a good idea. They could have still had that same trailer put up on YouTube, but for a live unveiling in front of a wide audience who had no warning about what they were about to see, yeah it might've been a bit much. I think a comparison to movie trailers is fair, even the most disturbing horror/thriller movies know not to put the really terrible stuff front and center and almost certainly not attached to some PG-13 movie. That's also why we have "Red Band" trailers.
The violence and gore is okay, especially likely given the context of TLOUII. But, we all know what kind of world TLOU is, we don't need to see it front and center stage at a trade show in front of a wide audience.
The violence and gore is okay, especially likely given the context of TLOUII. But, we all know what kind of world TLOU is, we don't need to see it front and center stage at a trade show in front of a wide audience.
People complain too much I just don't understand. The game isn't rated E at the end yeah? We had previous games with much gore and violence, why is it an issue this time? "People acting like animals" yeah cause people will act like anything in order to survive. This is all about survival! Neil stated the theme of the game before and he said that the theme is hate. Anybody by any chance expected to see a happy sequel with flowers and butterflies? I get and respect it when people can't handle seeing this shit. Its up to you at the end to like whatever you want just don't come complain about a game that targets mature people that has a lot of violence and gore. Again, its not the first nor the last game that will have this content. DOOM says hi
It's a fictional and dangerous world: THE LAST OF US
No, but what I expected sure as shit wasn't nameless characters being completely brutalized to sell a game.
Like what is hard to understand here? Are people conflating that the context less violence is the same issue people have with fatalities in Mortal Kombat? Because its not.
That's entirely up to the parents in most cases. Also, this kind of stuff isn't new. Mortal Kombat was released in '92.
Again, that is not what this thread is about, of course all sorts of games with different grades of violence should exist. It's about this being public-facing marketing presented in a freely streamed press conference.
Why is a warning needed? Did these peeps not play TLOU? There is worst int hat game, did people expect TLOU II to not be dark/Violent? I mean it makes no sense./
Naughty Dog gave context to this section of the game by saying it is introducing new characters. And that The Last of Us II is not only about Joel and Ellie's stories but about these other characters as well. I guess you can disagree as to the best way to introduce these characters but that's what ND has said.
I don't think it's a problem with devs, or even with marketing. It's a problem with the audience. AAA gaming is a tough sell nowadays - it's sink or swim. There's only so many consumers out there willing to spend $60+ on a single player experience. I mean, that's the big issue, right? That's where lootboxes and monetization and all that are coming into play?
That audience is, due to a variety of factors, predominantly young adult men with disposable income. And that audience has consistently shown what it wants - intensity, gore, adult themes, violence.
That's not the whole audience. That might not even be the majority of the audience. But that's the audience of people pre-ordering deluxe editions six months in advance, so the marketing will be aimed at them first and foremost. Everyone else comes later.
That audience is, due to a variety of factors, predominantly young adult men with disposable income. And that audience has consistently shown what it wants - intensity, gore, adult themes, violence.
That's not the whole audience. That might not even be the majority of the audience. But that's the audience of people pre-ordering deluxe editions six months in advance, so the marketing will be aimed at them first and foremost. Everyone else comes later.
But most horror (and GOOD horror as well) rely on shock, this wasn't supposed to be pleasent to look at, it was supposed to be disturbing.
This doesn't really feel any different from most of the things that happened in TLOU anyway and that was GOOD horror. I don't even know why we should expect anything different from the sequel.
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People should go rewatch The Last of Us gameplay reveal again. It mightn't look as realistic as this but it was just as brutal, it's not just out of the blue, it's how the franchise as been from the beginning.
I think the line between showing us an uncomfortable aspect of humanity and showcasing disturbing images for the sake of edginess is a pretty thin one. I don't think the trailer crossed it but we'll have to see the general tone of the game itself. You're right about the original handling it well though
Right, and like the trailers for this product, you can choose not to watch them.
Would you see Hostel and Saw at a huge industry press event though? I don't even think this trailer was as harsh as things in those movies, but the context the footage was shown was super weird. I also think though that considering you have a level of agency in video games that you don't while watching a movie, that a violent scene depicted in a video game feels comparatively more brutal than if the same scene is depicted in a movie.
I am 100% sure this game will have an audience, but, nothing about that trailer screamed out to me as a particularly exciting or enjoyable universe to start exploring.
Did you even read OP? OP ain't against violence in games or TLOUII, he's taking specifically about displaying that trailer, front and center stage, at the tail end of a public trade show.
Like stuff we saw dozens of times in TLOU1? Well, it's The Last of Us. A brutal, cruel world. And it was amazing!
LOL true.
But honestly, even classic GoW even when it is extremely violent is still easier to digest. The context of fantasy and the cartoon-y over the top nature of the action cushions the violence a lot.
There is a earnestness to games like TLoU that make it more like torture porn. The intent is to make you uncomfortable.
And honestly, the trailer was meant for everyone to feel uncomfortable. I sure I did.
Bad place to show it off? Kinda, yeah.
But these games are horror games trying to depict humanity at it's lowest. I applaud ND for even attempting to handle that stuff in such a serious, sobering tone.
The term 'torture porn' is just way too short-sighted.
Bad place to show it off? Kinda, yeah.
But these games are horror games trying to depict humanity at it's lowest. I applaud ND for even attempting to handle that stuff in such a serious, sobering tone.
The term 'torture porn' is just way too short-sighted.
Nothing. I think people have more of a problem with sex being randomly thrown in with no real purpose or used in a negative/offensive way. I think violence may be a bit different since it could actually enhance the gameplay, depending on how its done.
For me, personally, the narrative can be excellent or complete shit, but if the gameplay is great, I'll keep playing. Shock value, no shock value, exploitation, whatever, just give me good gameplay and I'm in.