Would be more refreshing if they'd stop sponsoring the Patriots. At least until Kraft offers a real apology for what he did and acknowledges the horrible effect his actions have on women. Not to diminish this ad or the previous one.
Gillette ad features an unapologetic fat woman in a swimsuit; heads explode (See Staff Post)
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You're putting words in my mouth, I don't care about her looks, or in fact even the person in the ad itself. I care about the image it's projecting. Morbid obesity is always unhealthy, full stop. Normalizing it on any level is the same as normalizing anorexia. And seeing as how people don't tend to normalize the latter, I don't think we should be normalizing the former either.
Also, let's not kid ourselves here. Gillette isn't running this ad to make obese people more happy or feel less shame about the way that they look. More likely than not, their reasoning is entirely cynical. They're doing it for two reasons: The first being that they knew it would stir controversy and get people talking (watch the "woke brands" video of hbomberguy), and secondly, they cynically know that obese women are a significant demographic these days, and their dollar spends as well as anyone else's.
And I do get your point about the notion that shaming people, or making them otherwise feel bad about how they look being a hinderance to actual change. Again, I lived it, and in fact still am living it. But where I disagree is that tying obesity with body acceptance is the way to go about it. If you're morbidly obese, you need to change that if you want don't want to sell your future down the road, and that's a stone-cold fact, and I think accepting the way that you look is in direct conflict with that goal.
At any rate, I'm more arguing against the general idea than the ad itself at this point. I think the ad straddles the line between being problematicly pro-obesity and "just showing an obese person being happy" in a very unclear, if not cynically unclear way. But I guess that's the strength of the actual advertisement itself, in that it gets people to pick a side and get talking about Gillette™.
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I don't feel like this ad is "normalizing" anything. An extremely significant amount of our population is overweight, yet our media doesn't portray them because they only put people they consider beautiful on TV. And if they are shown, they're often just a punchline - someone who loves overeating, stays inside all the time, or is lazy. Besides the fact that it's been shown over and over that this kind of portrayal has damaging effects to people, it also is completely unrealistic to how overweight people actually are.
Saying the ad is "normalizing" is implying that overweight people should be / are all unhappy and lazy all the time. Therefore I take issue with the idea that a happy overweight person performing a mundane activity is abnormal and something that shouldn't be "normalized".
Saying the ad is "normalizing" is implying that overweight people should be / are all unhappy and lazy all the time. Therefore I take issue with the idea that a happy overweight person performing a mundane activity is abnormal and something that shouldn't be "normalized".
Damn, some of you are going full Judge Frollo with this. Being overweight doesn't mean you can never go out in public again or that you hide in shame from the world until it's resolved. I get that being overweight isnt healthy but DAMN some of these responses are straight up brutal. Someone said 'A grotesque mockery of the human form'? The fuck is wrong with you?
-Subsidizing unhealthy ingredients (sugar) is promoting obesity.
-Years of misinformation from even the government is promoting obesity.
-A food lobby related to both above leading to garbage foods being the cheapest is promoting obesity.
-Working people long obnoxious hours discouraging home cooking with a lack of tine and keeping wages low promoting the above garbage food choices due to costs are promoting obesity.
This ad from Gillette is hardly promoting obesity. If you're against the growing obesity epidemic, focus on the real sources.
-Years of misinformation from even the government is promoting obesity.
-A food lobby related to both above leading to garbage foods being the cheapest is promoting obesity.
-Working people long obnoxious hours discouraging home cooking with a lack of tine and keeping wages low promoting the above garbage food choices due to costs are promoting obesity.
This ad from Gillette is hardly promoting obesity. If you're against the growing obesity epidemic, focus on the real sources.
Because of god knows how much psychological evidence there is that being unnecessarily hostile in shaming someone simply leads to further compound mental health issues like depression and anxiety which fuel the cycle of self-harm. Overeating to such an extreme degree is a form of self-harm. Just in the same way drinking in excess is. If you're out of control of something to such a large degree and it's affecting your health in a serious way, it's harming you. Shame usually leads to flaming that condition to even worse levels, where people binge eat because they are unhappy.
Being factual and honest doesn't mean you need to shame. My issues in this topic and the greater cultural shift right now is a severe lack of honesty. It's already cropped up multiple times in this topic where people just see morbid obesity as "being overweight" and anorexia as "being skinny". That in turn normalizes things in society so that there isn't a buffer of concern when someone is on the fringes. It's just... oh, that person is overweight like me. While you are technically overweight but it's really just some body diversity and your health isn't in any great risk.
Last time I was in the hospital and had to get my appendix removed I was classed as slightly underweight. But that didn't mean I was anorexic. I was 133lbs at 6ft.
Wow some of the posts in this thread are depressing.
It just shows how much fat hatred is considered socially acceptable.
Yes, there are unhealthy aspects of being obese, but that doesn't mean that those who are obese should be viewed as a pariah of the earth.
All of the people saying it "glorifies" obesity. Would you be saying the same thing if it were any other piece of identity? Would you say by showing a POC or a gay person in an advertisement or a TV show that it is "glorifying" them?
I understand there are health risks, but that's irrelevant to obese people being allowed to exist in public spaces and in representation.
It just shows how much fat hatred is considered socially acceptable.
Yes, there are unhealthy aspects of being obese, but that doesn't mean that those who are obese should be viewed as a pariah of the earth.
All of the people saying it "glorifies" obesity. Would you be saying the same thing if it were any other piece of identity? Would you say by showing a POC or a gay person in an advertisement or a TV show that it is "glorifying" them?
I understand there are health risks, but that's irrelevant to obese people being allowed to exist in public spaces and in representation.
The ad depicts an overweight person outside, being active. Seems like a positive, healthy thing to promote. Better than implying that obese people should hide themselves away.
There was a real time in my life where I would have been one of the people that got banned here. Hating fat people is really easy in America, as the overweight are constantly shown as punchlines or undesirable. And truthfully I did judge, I always grew up tall and mostly thin, and not because of my diet but a lucky metabolism.
I've gotten older and have had the right people in my life to change that outlook. In a world that cares so much about image as worth there are people trapped in their own skin and constantly belittled. There are so many assumptions made about larger people and their life styles and it's at best unempathic and at worst another form of discrimination.
Ultimately what's important is being comfortable in your own body, and that's why I do believe exercise is a excellent thing. When we see someone large lose weight through diet and exercise we shouldn't be excited because a fat person is no longer fat, we should be excited someone works hard enough and pushes through incrediblely hard barriers to feel comfortable and healthier.
Any representation is good, ultimately anything that helps people feel valid for simply existing is a plus in my eyes. The people who care about health.... have no business in this thread. The subject is about representation not health. There is a health epidemic but we shouldn't start by telling people they disgust you, you start by trying to make more healthier foods cheaper and give people access to what they need they need. It's like talking about gender not mattering by picking on a trans kid instead of working on equal pay, its disgusting.
So on that level good for the commerical..... it's also a commercial selling products from a mega corporation that probably made more money off the previous controversy and has decided to do this for capitalism related reasons. That shit makes me so cynical but that's really too big a subject for this thread in particular.
I've gotten older and have had the right people in my life to change that outlook. In a world that cares so much about image as worth there are people trapped in their own skin and constantly belittled. There are so many assumptions made about larger people and their life styles and it's at best unempathic and at worst another form of discrimination.
Ultimately what's important is being comfortable in your own body, and that's why I do believe exercise is a excellent thing. When we see someone large lose weight through diet and exercise we shouldn't be excited because a fat person is no longer fat, we should be excited someone works hard enough and pushes through incrediblely hard barriers to feel comfortable and healthier.
Any representation is good, ultimately anything that helps people feel valid for simply existing is a plus in my eyes. The people who care about health.... have no business in this thread. The subject is about representation not health. There is a health epidemic but we shouldn't start by telling people they disgust you, you start by trying to make more healthier foods cheaper and give people access to what they need they need. It's like talking about gender not mattering by picking on a trans kid instead of working on equal pay, its disgusting.
So on that level good for the commerical..... it's also a commercial selling products from a mega corporation that probably made more money off the previous controversy and has decided to do this for capitalism related reasons. That shit makes me so cynical but that's really too big a subject for this thread in particular.
Fat shaming doesn't work, first off. Secondly, making people feel like shit about themselves is also objectively bad for their health too. Thirdly, you can't make it about looks. People should be encouraged to be active, to eat right, etc, but you shouldn't make it about their weight or bmi. Fourthly if you think athletic stereotypes aren't idealized I don't know what to say.
How is this not an inflammatory false equivalency?
Being a POC or gay isn't a medical condition. Morbidly obese is a medical condition.
Jesus Christ, some of the people in this thread. Do you walk around the beach and scream at anyone over 12% bodyfat that they are living an unhealthy lifestyle?
FFS, this promotes a shaving product and body positivity. There is nothing *wrong* with that.
Now, should we also be encouraging a healthy lifestyle, and going after shitty high-calorie foods, subsidized sugar and other shit that the government promotes that is unhealthy? Absolutely. Hell, I think we should be open to suing the manufacturers of this stuff the way we hit the tobacco industry. But, this ad is a good thing that will make people feel better, so everyone hating on it needs to take a hard look at why you hate seeing a woman who is a little larger.
FFS, this promotes a shaving product and body positivity. There is nothing *wrong* with that.
Now, should we also be encouraging a healthy lifestyle, and going after shitty high-calorie foods, subsidized sugar and other shit that the government promotes that is unhealthy? Absolutely. Hell, I think we should be open to suing the manufacturers of this stuff the way we hit the tobacco industry. But, this ad is a good thing that will make people feel better, so everyone hating on it needs to take a hard look at why you hate seeing a woman who is a little larger.
As someone who has always been somewhat overweight to varying degrees.
Shaming DEFINITELY does not work. If anything, my worst moments and most out of control eating habits were always during the times that I felt most insecure and shitty about myself. When the image of yourself and the voices of criticism are "ugly fat fuck" and "bitch tits" you just kind of end up thinking "Eh. Fuck it. I'm an ugly piece of shit anyways, whats one more bowl of ice cream?"
Negativity breeds negativity, and no hope of getting better.
The difference being that showing a POC or LGBT should be "glorified", or otherwise normalized, because there is literally nothing wrong with it. Obviously. The contention with this ad stems from the fact that it can be construed as normalizing an actually deadly epidemic. Although, I do concede that it doesn't do so to any meaningful degree, and that at best, the actual message it's sending is highly debatable (again, probably on purpose).
It is a medical condition sure, but the point is not literal equivalency.
The point is you wouldnt treat those groups of people as a progressive with derision just for being visible would you?
Yes, I'm aware its not literal equivalency.
But all of you should be good enough people to realize that being visible and treated like a person with some sense of dignity isn't the same as being "glorified"
THATS the point. Not that those identifiers are the same.
I'd say show people enjoying making healthier options in life, and showing their weight loss progress would be a start. Obviously obese people should be happy, just like anyone else in this world. But the extra weight they are carrying is likely to kill them early in life. Highlighting easy changes, along with the actual progress a person has made, would go a long way
Right but this ad isn't normalizing an unhealthy behavior. It's normalizing wearing a bikini to the beach.
If the ad was of an obese person over eating, I'd understand the outrage.
Bingo. All of this dog shit in here is exactly why I've had an unhealthy relationship with my body image to the point of suicidal ideation.
I'm not a fan of fat shaming but you are playing in to the concern trolling by saying she is "a little larger" and "over 12% bodyfat". The woman in the ad is morbidly obese not 10 pounds overweight, and will have myriad health issues if she stays at that weight including significantly reduced life expectancy. Her and people who struggle with obesity need all the help/support they can get.
Sure, but it might help for them to quote the examples of it they see when referencing it.
Otherwise it's playing a little loose considering the amount of well considered, non-hateful posts that are discussing obesity.
I wouldn't use the word acceptable, it should be acceptable. For whatever reason this is the body some people have. But I understand where you are coming from.
You can be happy with who you are, fat or skinny, and people have a right to choose how they live their life but know the risks:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vo...th/2017/6/19/15819808/obesity-global-epidemic
(Article based on NEJM)
And make educated decisions.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vo...th/2017/6/19/15819808/obesity-global-epidemic
(Article based on NEJM)
And make educated decisions.
How do you know she is morbidly obese? Have you seen her body fat %? Do you know her current health? Or are you making a judgement based on how she looks?
The "concern trolling" is people pretending to care about this woman's health when they are mostly grossed out because they 1) Think women are primarily objects to be valued by their looks 2) Don't want to look at gross people.
Let's not all pretend that a forum that is 95% men isn't going to have some really uncomfortable thoughts when it comes to the way they view women and their bodies.
And being body-positive in most cases helps people with wait loss. Shaming them, trying to make them feel bad or acting like they are somehow "worse" than the rest of us has been proven to not work to encourage weightloss. We can both 1) Make people feel good about themselves 2) Acknowledge healthy lifestyles.
But attacking individuals isn't going to get us where you want to go. It's like driving through a poor neighborhood and screaming "Get rich lazy people". There are much larger issues at play here, and individual choices (while they play a role) are often not the primary cause of obesity, we need to look at the societal issues that are causing the obesity epidemic and not ask individuals to boot strap themselves out of here. Depression, government subsidies of garbage food, misinformation about what is good for you, genetics, even the way we design our cities (car culture), poverty and all sorts of stuff play a massive role in the obesity epedemic and we need to work on larger societal changes that will help people.
Put another way: We've been fat shaming people since time immemorial and the obesity epidemic isn't getting better. So maybe try a new tactic?
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I was clearly providing an anecdote there.
But I could also link to the mountains of research on obesity and physcologicy and limking obesity to depression at a rate of around 90-95% for adults:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/15475235/
http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar...voKws4ZTBjUyLQ-WoC1Ht3ylQ&nossl=1&oi=scholarr
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2014.00925/full
http://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar...l4WBZ8My6GOG6vTRWsMLSr7pw&nossl=1&oi=scholarr
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016517810900170X
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapsychiatry/fullarticle/210608
They need emotional support.
She's outdoors being active and having a good time. Anyone shaming her for it isn't helping her get healthy, or putting her interest first.
Well I used to be obese myself so I am well aware of how that looks. In terms of the rest of the forum you are probably right but I'm not going to guess on people's unspoken/internal thoughts.
Agreed, no point in shaming anyone really.
Guys I think that when obese people go out in the world and see other obese people, it normalizes obesity, and promotes an unhealthy culture. So the best solution would be to eliminate all obese people so that when obese people go out they don't see any obese people. Wait...I feel like there's a flaw in the plan here somewhere. But who cares, as long as we're all promoting healthy living, right guys!
/s
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Exactly. My first thought was a sarcastic "How dare they depict a fat person being out and about having fun and being active!"
Seriously. That's ALL it is. The fact that people read it as anything else shows the internal biases people have. They dont even want to SEE a fat person in public. Apparently they are just supposed to magically get healthier out of sight and out of mind, because heaven forbid they actually exist without being portrayed as expressly miserable.
Honestly the best way to make serious inroads on the obesity crisis would be to ban regular coke and Mountain Dew. Shit is disgusting for you, and is empty calories that won't make you feel any fuller.
Also being obese is a choice, I can see people saying being overweight is hard and different people can struggle with it, but to be morbidly obese is 100% a choice, let's not pretend otherwise. Doesn't mean that we should obese people like shit, but we also shouldn't coddle them.
Also being obese is a choice, I can see people saying being overweight is hard and different people can struggle with it, but to be morbidly obese is 100% a choice, let's not pretend otherwise. Doesn't mean that we should obese people like shit, but we also shouldn't coddle them.
Welcome to the rhetorical device that is hyperbole.
Or go read that famous piece by Swift (A Modest Proposal).
Is being poor a choice? I would argue that there are choices involved (or were choices involved in the past) that are part of the chain of events that lead to being obese. But it's far more complicated than that, and often the choice was subconscious or learned behavior. Shits complicated and until we are going to start providing mental health in this country I don't think you can throw as much responsibility at the feet of individuals as you want to.
Fat is already normalized,it being shown in one commercial isnt gonna make it worse and nobody here or anywhere seriously cares about her personal health, they care about her image, they care that she isnt a skinny model to look at.
You see a lot of those people here, which is surprising. They can be the most liberal, progressive in other ways, but when it comes to fat people, they muster up the vitriol of a diehard Trump supporter.
Lol get out of here with that shit. Talk to me about what I said or don't bother.
The lingering irony of this ad is that she's out getting exercise. Like, she's doing the thing people want her to do.
I guess Gillette instead should've had her sitting on the couch miserable in front of the TV with messaging saying "You could be at the beach moving around if you weren't an unhealthy slob."
I guess Gillette instead should've had her sitting on the couch miserable in front of the TV with messaging saying "You could be at the beach moving around if you weren't an unhealthy slob."