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GRRM is “Maybe 3/4 Done” The Winds of Winter

Will Book 6 come out before HOTD season 2?

  • Of course!

    Votes: 70 5.9%

  • Of course not!

    Votes: 1,125 94.1%
  • Total voters
    1,195
Boppa

Boppa

Member
Apr 4, 2020
400
Much like book three in the king killer chronicles I will believe it when it actually happens (and not a moment before).
 
Yerffej

Yerffej

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,674
Freezasaurus said:
Ya'll know book seven is going to end up being finished by Brandon Sanderson, right?
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Sanderson knows his boundaries. His writing style doesn't touch this stuff and he knows it. I can't think of an actual series beyond this one he could be persuaded to tear himself away from his own stuff...but yeah. No. Prolly Abercrombie...or maybe Gwynne, except they'd have to keep him tied to a chair to make him write the opposite of the way he does with that brevity he's known for.
 
Charamiwa

Charamiwa

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,069
bremon said:
A Dream of Spring should be out in 2039. He'll be 91 and still hitting the convention circuit and blogging up a storm. I've moved on and won't be reading TWOW but eventually someone will be excited until the book ends with a chapter about diarrhea in a field.
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Well it was a great chapter.
 
Boppa

Boppa

Member
Apr 4, 2020
400
I love Brandon Sanderson's writing but I just can't imagine him (a seemingly very open minded practicing Mormon) writing an explicit incest or a graphically violent rape scene fitting of this series.
 
Shevek

Shevek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,544
Cape Town, South Africa
This is why I only read trilogies and sagas when they're complete, and it's why I really appreciate authors like Joe Abercrombie (who's often compared to GRRM). I read somewhere that he tends to write complete drafts of his trilogies, then sends the first entry to his publisher while refining the second and third entries.

At least Abercrombie has a complete draft of the plot and how it ends so that fans aren't kept waiting for years on end. I'd feel so robbed being a fan of ASOIAF or the Kingkiller Chronicles
 
BigSkinny0310

BigSkinny0310

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account.
Banned
Dec 7, 2017
2,940
I think we'll all open this site next year to see a thread saying it's releasing November XX, 2023.
 
Voytek

Voytek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,832
It's been so long I that I have forgotten most of what happened in the books and the show stuff has sorta blended in with it. I don't think I could even pick this book up and feel like I know what I'm reading anymore and I have no desire to go back and read the old books again. There was a time I couldn't wait for this to come out but at this point I probably won't even read it.
 
Bengraven

Bengraven

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Member
Oct 26, 2017
26,968
Florida
His editors: can we please, for the love of Christ, pull a Feast of Crows and just release this as part 1?

GRRM: well then I'll have to go back and rewrite large chunks of it to fit into a fitting epilogue and…

His ghostwriters: hey there's no black people in this right?
 
steejee

steejee

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,687
In 2 years: "Maybe 4/5ths done"
In 4 years: "Maybe 5/6ths done"
In 6 years: "Maybe 6/7ths done"
 
Protein

Protein

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,030
George's plan is to outlive the HBO executives so that he may change the ending of the story.
 
SABO.

SABO.

Member
Nov 6, 2017
5,872
thats what I tell my boss when I want him to leave me alone before I scrap it together last minute
 
Aiqops

Aiqops

Member
Aug 3, 2021
14,044
Z0kZ7gt_d.webp
 
RiZ IV

RiZ IV

Member
Oct 27, 2017
806
Does it even matter at this point? It's been so long, the show already spoiled the basic plot, and obviously the last book will never come out. I loved the books, but I'm not going to waste time reading this knowing that it won't have a conclusion.
 
Aiqops

Aiqops

Member
Aug 3, 2021
14,044
RiZ IV said:
Does it even matter at this point? It's been so long, the show already spoiled the basic plot, and obviously the last book will never come out. I loved the books, but I'm not going to waste time reading this knowing that it won't have a conclusion.
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He already said a lot of things will be very different compared to the show and I gladly take another book, to see what he does with Jon, Stannis, Sansa etc. even if we never get the final book.
 
BourbonAFC

BourbonAFC

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,458
I really do feel for GRRM. I think it's clear he is wildly optimistic and overestimates when it will be done and then when he misses his estimation it must be crushing. Not only because he's letting down his fans, but mostly because I truly believe he wants to be finished. Never have bought into all the bitching that he doesn't care anymore or that he's stopped writing.

I say this as a fan who has been really frustrated with his progress. Either way I will devour Winds when released and hope I will enjoy it as much as I do the other books.

If we never get Dream so be it. If we do it'll be an incredible surprise.
 
HStallion

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
62,272
RiZ IV said:
Does it even matter at this point? It's been so long, the show already spoiled the basic plot, and obviously the last book will never come out. I loved the books, but I'm not going to waste time reading this knowing that it won't have a conclusion.
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The books might end up in the same basic spot but its going to be a very different trip getting there. Already the case with the last couple books where there mountains of changes, big and small.
 

gamerweeb1

Member
Aug 15, 2022
59
I just want to remind you guys that in early 2015, George said he could finish the book by December 2015.

He is a massive procrastinator, and very likely a liar.

In 5 years from now, he'll be saying "Don't worry guys, I'm 9/10ths of the way there"!

And in 10 years from now, he'll probably be dead. No offense, but he is 74 years old and severely obese.
 
PhaZe 5

PhaZe 5

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,465
It's interesting to think that the Snow sequel might air before Winds is released. Damn.
 
Glasgow Mega-Snake

Glasgow Mega-Snake

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,971
gutshot said:
I don't know what Rothfuss may have done to piss off his publisher, but George would have to do something absolutely beyond the pale before his publishers decided to call out their golden goose. George's books make his publishers a TON of money.
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The difference is probably that GRRM is Randomhouse which is massive, they can afford to wait until he delivers.

Rothfuss is at DAW books which is a small publisher exclusively doing Sci-Fi/Fantasy. They seemed to be in financial trouble and were acquired recently, so that's probably why Rothfuss' editor was very publicly pissed at him, Doors of Stone could have possibly saved them as independent company
 
Unaha-Closp

Unaha-Closp

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,740
Scotland
I've about an hour left in book 10 of The First Law series. I do love reading books that are already finished the older I get. Used to not care, haha I thought, I'll remember the details.......then when book 2 came out I reread book 1, and then when book 3 came I reread books 1 and 2 - which no one has time for these days. Give me a complete set - so should book 6 and whisper it, book 7, ever come out I will (re)read the entire set. Until then I am not really that bothered. It's been so long since I read Books 1-5, the minutiae and nuance of them have left me. If they never come out, that's okay. There are so many other books.
 
OP
OP
Zebesian-X

Zebesian-X

Member
Dec 3, 2018
19,876
RiZ IV said:
Does it even matter at this point? It's been so long, the show already spoiled the basic plot, and obviously the last book will never come out. I loved the books, but I'm not going to waste time reading this knowing that it won't have a conclusion.
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I've made my peace with the possibility that the ending may just never come. I'm just excited to spend more time with these characters.
 
Tacitus

Tacitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,050
Words are wind

AFFC
  • Was optimistic he could be done by the end of 2002.
  • Actual publication date: Oct/Nov 2005

ADWD

TWOW

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Captain_Vyse

Captain_Vyse

Member
Jun 24, 2020
6,827
I'll believe it when I see it.
Also, I would have to reread the books as I do not remember everything, and I'm not sure I want to at this point. It's been too long since book 5.
 
jett

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,673
Moff said:
His body language so obviously tells us that TWOW is what he hates most in his life. He is pissed and annoyed he still "needs" to do that
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Yeah he clearly looks so uncomfortable talking about it. My ASOIAF pessimisms may have reached peak levels after watching that video posted earlier lol. I don't think we'll ever see TWOW.
 
DarkChronic

DarkChronic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,047
I don't know how anyone can watch that video and come out feeling positive about the book's release. Do you not hear how tired and absolutely exhausted he sounds?

I feel like I went actually backwards after watching this thing - thinking Winds was pretty close - but now, I'm not too sure.
 
The Albatross

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,120
I feel like I've read this exact article/thread/etc several times in the last 10 years.

I used to be frustrated with the series stalling, but I've made peace with it. I get it with GRRM too, although I'm at a much smaller scale... there's work I've had, even work I once loved, that I absolutely dread thinking about and don't want to do, and so I'd rather do any other work than that one. Projects of like, ugh, i don't even want to think about it. I have an old client bugging me right now to do some work for him which I don't want to do, and I'm just like... ugh... I don't eevn want to open his emails... He's a good guy, a good client, he's going to pay me, etc, but I don't have the mental energy to even begin it right now. Obviously my stuff is like 1/1million of a novel like WInds of WInter, but I get the sentiment.

Tacitus said:
Words are wind

AFFC
  • Was optimistic he could be done by the end of 2002.
  • Actual publication date: Oct/Nov 2005

ADWD

TWOW

Reddit - Dive into anything

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Don't discount that the Giants are 6-1 and the Patriots are in last place in the AFC East, so that alone will push the schedule back at least 9 months.
 
El Bombastico

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,085
I love how just a few years ago, hell just last year, we'd have a ton of GRRM White Knights coming in here screaming the usual "entitlement" "GRRM's not your bitch!" etc.

But after 10 fucking years of this "its coming soon! Honest!" bullshit l don't think the man is fooling anyone but the most deluded anymore...
 
El Bombastico

El Bombastico

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
36,085
Tacitus said:
Words are wind

AFFC
  • Was optimistic he could be done by the end of 2002.
  • Actual publication date: Oct/Nov 2005

ADWD

TWOW

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com www.reddit.com
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I was 6 years old when the first book was published. Now I'm 32 and he's still not done. Fuck..
 
Magister Xehanort

Magister Xehanort

Member
Sep 5, 2021
3,062
Freezasaurus said:
Ya'll know book seven is going to end up being finished by Brandon Sanderson, right?
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Sanderson would never finish ASOIAF, because he never read them. Here he commenting:

Censor? Strange word to use, but perhaps appropriate here. I don't censor my own writing--I just write what I feel is right, and what fits. But if I were writing on this series, and didn't include it...hmm, yes perhaps that would be the right term.

But the point is moot, as I wouldn't say yes to finishing ASOIAF, if asked. (And I don't think they'd ask me.) I'd respectfully decline. I wouldn't be right for the job for many reasons. I wouldn't want to put in the content that the series has, and part of that is due to my religious faith, part of it is just who I am. I don't shy away from difficult material, but I prefer not to get explicit. Honestly, when I read it in George's work, I often just cringe. I don't think it fits in prose; I think it looks tacky. But that's almost 100% due to the my religious leanings. I realize that others don't read such scenes in the same way as I do.

However, I'd suggest that this is actually a minor reason why I'd be a bad writer on this series, despite having enormous respect for GRRM and his talent as a storyteller.

The primary reason has to do with fundamental optimism vs pessimism. I write darkness into my books, but it is darkness as contrast to light, and there is always a spark of hope. George's work seems fundamentally pessimistic--which I don't say as a slam. One of my favorite short stories is Harrison Bergeron, which is also fundamentally pessimistic. Saying George's work is pessimistic doesn't mean that HE is pessimistic, only that he creates a work of art that evokes emotion and discussion through pessimistic themes.

As a comparison, I'm glad that Silver Age science fiction produced both Harrison Bergeron and Star Trek--but I'm Star Trek, not Harrison Bergeron. Calling me in to work on this piece would be like calling in Spielberg to finish a Tarantino film. (Not to imply I deserve to be ranked with either one.) Sure, he could do it, but wouldn't you want someone who themselves makes films with Tarantino-like themes?

My work is also fundamentally different from George's in our use of magic. We've talked about books, and he points out (rightly) that I often use a heavily magical component in my stories--particularly the endings. This is because I'm writing science/magic hybrids, and the idea of magic as progress is fascinating to me. George, however, prefers his magic to be arcane, unknown, and dark--not a tool, but a force you can sometimes (with great danger) apply. This is a small issue, as I'm fond of books that use magic differently, I've just made a stylistic choice in how I do what I do.

Anyway, hope that helps. I get this question (or ones like it) enough that I thought I should give a more in-depth answer.
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I'll admit, I haven't read the entire ASOIF. I read the first book, and while I though the writing was excellent (I've enjoyed a lot of George's short fiction) I found the experience too much for me. It didn't feel realistic so much as, "Look how much I can build someone up before I destroy them." Which is an absolute art--it's using emotion in a very powerful and clever way. But I feel that he's often doing things to shock and surprise, precisely because they'd be too pessimistic for an ordinary fantasy series. (Indeed, his series feels like distinct reaction and contrast to the cozy fantasy stories of the eighties.)

That said, I realize that my friends who love ASOIAF point out that part of the strengths of the series is how he takes people you thought were irredeemable, and then makes you root for them--which does indeed have an optimism to it. And since I haven't read the entire series, I can't speak from a position of authority. Indeed, it may be too early to judge for any of us (as you point out) because we haven't seen where the journey takes the characters.

I'd say on your second point is a valid one. I considered talking more about magic out in my original post, but felt I'd gone too long already. I'd say it's not the divine nature of magic in mine, so much as the reliable, tool-based nature of the magic. In both, you can use it for good or for evil--but in George's books, he often takes a more classic "Wonder" style approach to magic. Meaning, you never know exactly what the ramifications of using it will be, and you can't ever truly control it. In a way, most magic in his books is akin to the One Ring, while my magic tends to be an unexplored science that--if understood--can indeed by used reliably. Strangely, in this, he's more Tolkien, and I'm more Asimov. (Though Asimov would likely hate a fantasy writer comparing themselves to him.)

Thanks for poking at me. You make some very interesting points.
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As I said, I read the first one, which is not uncommon for me. There are a TON of series where I read only the first, even if I like them. Because there are a lot of people writing great fiction, and I feel that it's important to keep tabs on what everyone is doing, so that I can learn from them. Recently, I read the first of the Expanse, and despite enjoying it a lot, I don't know when/if I'll have the time to get the second.

With Ice and Fire, I specifically found Daenerys's plot too brutal. I'm all for putting characters into terrible situations, and letting horrible things happen. But her plot crossed the line for me. I did not want to read a series where teenage girls have their brothers brutally murdered before them, are raped into submission, finally fall into a kind of stockholm syndrome love with their captor, then get betrayed for showing a little kindness. There's a kind of brilliance to the way that plot played out, but when I was done with it, I just felt sick.

It's not a value judgement for anyone else. I decided from that, however, that series was not for me. I've kept tabs on the plot and worldbuilding, however, because it would be foolish not to be aware of what the top of one's field is doing.
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Deleted member 3208

Oct 25, 2017
11,934
One of the things I'm certain is that, besides dying someday, is that The Winds of Winter will never be released.
 
Vincent Grayson

Vincent Grayson

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,885
Mount Airy, MD
Boppa said:
I love Brandon Sanderson's writing but I just can't imagine him (a seemingly very open minded practicing Mormon) writing an explicit incest or a graphically violent rape scene fitting of this series.
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Not that the series really needs those elements.

But I also agree, and kind of hate that Sanderson finishing Wheel of Time has meant every damn conversation about older fantasy authors now has to involve the idea that maybe Sanderson (or someone else) will finish up more series.

Hell, I'm pretty sure Sanderson himself just announced recently his own plans for the vast Cosmere being managed/written in once he passes and I think he even brought someone on to help write/work on Cosmere stuff with him. Dude is never going to have time to write anyone else's stories.
 
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