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GSD European sales September 2023 - PS5#1 (+175%) NSW#2 (-25%) XBS#3 (-35%) / EA FC24#1 Starfiled#2 MK1#3

Dis

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,026
Gavalanche said:
Europe really does not like Xbox.

Having said that, they are very PC orientated so it's not overly surprising that Starfield did great but Xbox did not.
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To be fair, when Xbox saw large parts of them as "tier 2" and not important as a focus with how they marketed certain things over the years it isn't an easy reputation to turn around no matter how long they've been trying to.

The way the reputation of MS and Xbox has been in Europe for years during multiple generations is exactly why I said that even when games start coming that are highly rated and seen as good, plenty of folks will just skip the game instead of buying an xbox to play it. There isn't a shortage of good games available on any platform so skipping some because they only launch on a platform you don't want to support or you feel isn't worth your time isn't a hard choice for plenty of folks with limited gaming time.
 
MrTired

MrTired

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JuniperAndSage said:
They said ahead of time they weren't expecting a hardware increase due to Starfield.
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Could you please post where they stated this.
Being down 35% when big exclusive drops is terrible. Either Starfield was appealing to people who already had access to the game via console/pc or actually did have an impact and the decline would have been even greater without it.

Remember 22 for Xbox was barren in terms of exclusive, so it was like September 22 was a huge month and your going from real high.

Forza Horizon is the new marquee brand for Xbox wouldn't have thought Starfield would be unable to surpass it's performance.
 
behOemoth

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Oct 27, 2017
5,916
Rahvar said:
A vast majority of game console customers that I have seen in over a decade of being in the business buys a Playstation or Xbox for sports games/CoD and a Nintendo console for Nintendo games. They do not know the vast majority of game developer studios, don't know that game x is made by the same people as game y unless it is a direct sequel.
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Bethesda is very well known and most of its sales were through consoles, at least initially in their life cycle. At this point it is up to Microsoft not to sell/market the biggest new game from one of the most prestigious studios out there. They couldn't even keep the sales for an additional month after release of Starfield. I can see that Forza in addition Starfield will be benificial, but MS finally needs to build an XBOX affiliated portfolio.
 
Gavalanche

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MrTired said:
Could you please post where they stated this.
Being down 35% when big exclusive drops is terrible. Either Starfield was appealing to people who already had access to the game via console/pc or actually did have an impact and the decline would have been even greater without it.

Remember 22 for Xbox was barren in terms of exclusive, so it was like September 22 was a huge month and your going from real high.

Forza Horizon is the new marquee brand for Xbox wouldn't have thought Starfield would be unable to surpass it's performance.
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When Xbox did their quarterly projections they predicted only a single digit increase as far as I can remember. They did get that in the US and stuff, so yes they weren't expecting to move many consoles.
 
Kuro

Kuro

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Oct 25, 2017
21,272
Deluxera said:
Starfield is for Xbox what FFXVI was to Playstation. A good game that appeals to a certain audience but not mainstream enough to reach people outside of their circles like Zelda may do for instance.

The big difference is that Starfield was on Steam day one, because Xbox wants software sales more than hardware sales, while Playstation is the exact opposite.
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This doesn't make any sense. Starfield is as mainstream as they come and Bethesda's RPGs sell triple what FF does on average.

It also doesn't make sense because Sony may have paid for exclusivity but they don't own Square or the IP and the only thing we do know is that PS5 hardware has been up crazy amounts this year. Its hard to quantify what effect XVI had on that but still.

Basically, I'm not seeing your point of comparison here.
 
Rurunaki

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Oct 27, 2017
1,635
Belota said:
I believe they are shifting to a more profitable Nintendo-like hardware business model. Hence why the U$349,90 Xbox Series S 1TB, less frequent Xbox Series S 512GB price cuts and no price cuts at all to Xbox Series X.

Playstation is selling more, but their profits are plummenting.
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Selling more but profits plummeting? Math is not mathing.
 
pswii60

pswii60

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Oct 27, 2017
26,874
The Milky Way
Dust said:
Alright, at this point there is enough data. I don't think Starfield is what MS wanted it to be.
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I don't think they ever expected it to shift hardware in a big way. And if that was their whole intention, they would have made it exclusive.

kotaku.com

Not Even Starfield Will Get People To Trade Their PS5s For Series X/S, Says Xbox Boss

Phil Spencer admits Microsoft lost the Xbox One generation, which was the ‘worst one’ to lose due to the shift to digital
kotaku.com kotaku.com

However, as an owner of a gaming PC and Xbox, and a Game Pass subscriber, and someone who was looking forward to the game, I still haven't even downloaded it. The reviews completely put me off, I don't have the time for what is essentially a 3 hour tutorial at the beginning of the game. So if they can't convince me to even download it, I'm not surprised they're not convincing people to buy hardware for it.

Redfall, Minecraft Legends and FM have also disappointed this year. Hi-Fi Rush was incredible though but MS needs so much more, and they need mega polished quality output that attracts a wide audience, on the regular. I guess next year is the year as usual? I do like the look of their future lineup TBF.
 
Rodelero

Rodelero

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Oct 27, 2017
11,876
shadowman16 said:
What's more strange is the bizarre lack of advertising for Starfield over here in the UK. Ive seen more ads for Sonic Superstars than I have for Starfield lol.
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They were advertising on Lucozade bottles early in the year, but I think that may have ended by the time the game actually came out. I wonder if their marketing plans were screwed up a bit by the delay from the announced 11/11/22 date?
 
Kazuma Kiryu

Kazuma Kiryu

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Oct 28, 2017
1,566
Belota said:
I believe they are shifting to a more profitable Nintendo-like hardware business model. Hence why the U$349,90 Xbox Series S 1TB, less frequent Xbox Series S 512GB price cuts and no price cuts at all to Xbox Series X.

Playstation is selling more, but their profits are plummenting.
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I wonder if we'll see some receipts on this one.
 
Copilot

Copilot

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Jun 27, 2023
791
LinguisticGoblin

LinguisticGoblin

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Jul 19, 2020
1,141
Deluxera said:
I don't see why it matters in that context. Both games are console exclusives as far as I know.
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You said the difference is MS cares most about software sales while Sony cares more about hardware. FF16 not being a Sony game means that PC sales mean literally nothing to them, and if anything paying for timed exclusivity will increase the proportion of sales on PlayStation. How does the comparison hold up?

To say nothing of the fact that Bethesda games are multiple times bigger than mainline FF is to begin with, so I disagree with equating the two in terms of mainstream appeal. Skyrim didn't hit 60m by only appealing to a niche audience.
 
Lucreto

Lucreto

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Oct 25, 2017
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I am surprised by the numbers, I was expecting low sales for Starfield as they would be all on Gamepass but its the opposite.

Microsoft is trying to push people towards Gamepass and gamers buying the game outright are not buying a Gamepass subscription. I am sure Gamepass numbers are big as well but I wonder what expectations Microsoft had for Gamepass numbers.
 
GTVision

GTVision

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Oct 28, 2017
1,073
ArchLector said:
Actually your examples are detached from reality. ME is the one that doesn't sell out of those three, even for Bioware dragon age has always sold more. A new Bethesda game is way more popular and a console exclusive Bethesda game is (or should be) absolutely a system seller, just like Spidey or GoW.
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It might have pushed Gamepass subscription numbers, but I reckon Microsoft had hoped that it would push Xbox Series sales numbers as well, which hardly seems to be the case.
 
MrTired

MrTired

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,241
Belota said:
I believe they are shifting to a more profitable Nintendo-like hardware business model. Hence why the U$349,90 Xbox Series S 1TB, less frequent Xbox Series S 512GB price cuts and no price cuts at all to Xbox Series X.

Playstation is selling more, but their profits are plummenting.
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Might want to check again the reason why there profit declined. Might have something to do about accounting for the Bungie acquisition.

Gavalanche said:
When Xbox did their quarterly projections they predicted only a single digit increase as far as I can remember. They did get that in the US and stuff, so yes they weren't expecting to move many consoles.
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Actually that is fair to say. Whelp if your second biggest game of the generation can't significant move units what can? How do you arrest the decline in hardware? Do they care to?
 
Windrunner

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Oct 25, 2017
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Interesting to see some of the revisionism going on these last few days. People absolutely thought that Starfield would sells Xboxes (I was one of them) but now we see weird excuses like Bethesda games are relatively niche or the audience is mostly on PC.

The Xbox executives aren't idiots, they are going to be concerned that such a big release (by far their biggest exclusive of the year) failed to move the needle.
 
Red Kong XIX

Red Kong XIX

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Oct 11, 2020
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Belota said:
www.tweaktown.com

PlayStation delivers record $26.9 billion revenue, operating profit drops 40%

Sony's PlayStation games division made a record-breaking $26.9 billion in revenues throughout FY 2022, but high expenses caused operating income to slide.
www.tweaktown.com www.tweaktown.com
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Yeah, but not because of the console sales:

"Company management attributes this significant drop to rising expenses, including increased investment in its first-party games, as well as a decrease in third-party game sales (these were down by over 38 million), over $239 million in negative foreign exchange rate impact, and a substantial $389 million expense related to the acquisition of Bungie."
 
TimotheusNL

TimotheusNL

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Jun 9, 2023
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An Xbox sales 35% decline yoy in Starfield month? Damn. That's likely one of the biggest exclusives in the lifespan of the current gen.

If you'd mention this possibility a month or two ago, you'd be laughed out of the room. It's wild.

The strategy of keeping this game as an Xbox console exclusive sounded like it made proper business sense beforehand, but I wonder whether the loss of the millions of multiplatform sales and future Bethesda IP sales was worth it for it to not even bump Xbox sales significantly.

I wonder if they'll reconsider that strategy in the future. At some point you're just hurting the reach of your IP's and you'd be making vastly more money putting Gamepass on Switch and Playstation.

But that is wishful thinking obviously.
 
RezziHD_

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Apr 28, 2022
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reksveks

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May 17, 2022
3,837
MrTired said:
Could you please post where they stated this.
Being down 35% when big exclusive drops is terrible. Either Starfield was appealing to people who already had access to the game via console/pc or actually did have an impact and the decline would have been even greater without it.
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And in gaming, we expect revenue growth in the mid-single digits. We expect Xbox content and services revenue growth in the mid- to high single digits, driven by first-party and third-party content, as well as Xbox Game Pass.
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www.fool.com

Microsoft (MSFT) Q4 2023 Earnings Call Transcript | The Motley Fool

MSFT earnings call for the period ending June 30, 2023.
www.fool.com www.fool.com

Total - mid-single digits
Content and services - mid to high single digits
HW therefore should be in low single digits or flat depending on the ratio.

Updated, HW could be negative if the sw end up being near the high end.
 
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panda-zebra

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Oct 28, 2017
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Dring last month:
However, Xbox Series S and X struggled, with sales down nearly 12% compared with the same period in 2022. This will likely be a different story come September, with a new hardware SKU and the launch of Starfield expected to boost sales.
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And this month:
Nintendo Switch sales were down 28% compared with last September, while Xbox Series S and X sales are down 35% for that four-week period.
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NediarPT88

NediarPT88

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Oct 29, 2017
15,599
Xbox sales being down 35% in Starfield month is crazy, seems like the game did nothing for the console in EU markets. Also surprised to see it having a smaller launch compared to FH5, even considering that one was cross-gen.
 
YozoraXV

YozoraXV

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Oct 30, 2017
3,157
Belota said:
I believe they are shifting to a more profitable Nintendo-like hardware business model. Hence why the U$349,90 Xbox Series S 1TB, less frequent Xbox Series S 512GB price cuts and no price cuts at all to Xbox Series X.

Playstation is selling more, but their profits are plummenting.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yeah MS will be the Apple of gaming while Sony will be Android.

Xbox will have less market share but make more money. They don't need to be number one to stay in hardware.
 
Dust

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Oct 25, 2017
33,801
pswii60 said:
I don't think they ever expected it to shift hardware in a big way. And if that was their whole intention, they would have made it exclusive.

kotaku.com

Not Even Starfield Will Get People To Trade Their PS5s For Series X/S, Says Xbox Boss

Phil Spencer admits Microsoft lost the Xbox One generation, which was the ‘worst one’ to lose due to the shift to digital
kotaku.com kotaku.com

However, as an owner of a gaming PC and Xbox, and a Game Pass subscriber, and someone who was looking forward to the game, I still haven't even downloaded it. The reviews completely put me off, I don't have the time for what is essentially a 3 hour tutorial at the beginning of the game. So if they can't convince me to even download it, I'm not surprised they're not convincing people to buy hardware for it.

Redfall, Minecraft Legends and FM have also disappointed this year. Hi-Fi Rush was incredible though but MS needs so much more, and they need mega polished quality output that attracts a wide audience, on the regular. I guess next year is the year as usual? I do like the look of their future lineup TBF.
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I meant the whole picture, not just hardware sales.

Low 80s Meta.
Not the best player retention on Steam.
HW still not catching on.
Mixed opinions.
GP numbers clearly just people already in the ecosystem.

Starfield was (and is still) the biggest game when it comes to Xbox's forseeable future. What is next? Abstract 2024 for Avowed or Hellblade 2? You won't convince me MS did not have big expectations from Starfield in general.
Anyway, my plan is to pick up that XSX rollbox refresh, because that might be the point where all the acquisitions go into full gear, that's a good plan I think.
 
Super

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Jan 29, 2022
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YozoraXV said:
Yeah MS will be the Apple of gaming while Sony will be Android.

Xbox will have less market share but make more money. They don't need to be number one to stay in hardware.
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You need Apple hardware for iOS though. The market share may be low but the gross revenue will be high for Apple phones.
 
Deluxera

Deluxera

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Mar 13, 2020
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TimotheusNL said:
An Xbox sales 35% decline yoy in Starfield month? Damn. That's likely one of the biggest exclusives in the lifespan of the current gen.

If you'd mention this possibility a month or two ago, you'd be laughed out of the room. It's wild.

The strategy of keeping this game as an Xbox console exclusive sounded like it made proper business sense beforehand, but I wonder whether the loss of the millions of multiplatform sales and future Bethesda IP sales was worth it for it to not even bump Xbox sales significantly.

I wonder if they'll reconsider that strategy in the future. At some point you're just hurting the reach of your IP's and you'd be making vastly more money putting Gamepass on Switch and Playstation.

But that is wishful thinking obviously.
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I believe that the endgame for Microsoft is to eventually put their games on Playstation (and Nintendo), whether it's through Gamepass, Cloud, or another way. They are doing it with Minecraft and Call of Duty right now.

I don't see them keeping acquring formerly multiplatform publishers and blocking them from releasing their stuff on the most popular consoles, slashing their audience by ~30% or more for no real gain.

But that's a discussion for another topic.
 
NekoNeko

NekoNeko

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Oct 26, 2017
18,764
NediarPT88 said:
Xbox sales being down 35% in Starfield month is crazy, seems like the game did nothing for the console in EU markets. Also surprised to see it having a smaller launch compared to FH5, even considering that one was cross-gen.
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i wouldn't even have known it came out if i wasn't on Era. the game had no marketing whatsoever.
 
pswii60

pswii60

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Oct 27, 2017
26,874
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Dust said:
I meant the whole picture, not just hardware sales.

Low 80s Meta.
Not the best player retention on Steam.
HW still not catching on.
Mixed opinions.
GP numbers clearly just people already in the ecosystem.

Starfield was (and is still) the biggest game when it comes to Xbox's forseeable future. What is next? Abstract 2024 for Avowed or Hellblade 2? You won't convince me MS did not have big expectations from Starfield in general.
Anyway, my plan is to pick up that XSX rollbox refresh, because that might be the point where all the acquisitions go into full gear, that's a good plan I think.
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Maybe when they acquired Zenimax they had greater expectations, but it's clear they weren't expecting universally glowing reviews before launch at least, hence limiting review codes to certain outlets. And there had been multiple delays, so it's clear it hadn't been quite where they wanted it for a while.

That said, let's not completely write it down - globally, the game has still been a huge success. Its player retention has been far beyond your typical single player game. And it's already the 7th best selling game of the year in the US where it did at least manage to give a small hardware bump. Without Beth acquisition, the only big Xbox 1P game this year would have been Forza Motorsport.. just like the old days.
 
JuniperAndSage

JuniperAndSage

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Dec 27, 2019
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Jiggy said:
I don't think they said they were expecting a decline, though
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We don't know if there's been a decline. This is one month of a small (for Xbox) area.

pswii60 said:
Maybe when they acquired Zenimax they had greater expectations, but it's clear they weren't expecting universally glowing reviews before launch at least, hence limiting review codes to certain outlets. And there had been multiple delays, so it's clear it hadn't been quite where they wanted it for a while.
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Yeah, no doubt there were different thoughts when they bought the company and decided to make the game exclusive, and a month or two ago when they were giving forecasts for the coming quarter.
 
GTVision

GTVision

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Oct 28, 2017
1,073
JuniperAndSage said:
We don't know if there's been a decline. This is one month of a small (for Xbox) area.
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Good point, especially since Germany and UK aren't even included in this 'European' data. It's still not a good sign though that in this region the hardware sales are down by this much in a month with such a high profile release.
 
shadowman16

shadowman16

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Oct 25, 2017
33,066
Rodelero said:
They were advertising on Lucozade bottles early in the year, but I think that may have ended by the time the game actually came out. I wonder if their marketing plans were screwed up a bit by the delay from the announced 11/11/22 date?
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No idea, but I drink Lucozade quite a bit and I never saw that ad either lol. Maybe it was only specific bottles/flavors.
 
Damien1990

Damien1990

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May 23, 2020
2,183
Deluxera said:
I don't see them keeping acquring formerly multiplatform publishers and blocking them from releasing their stuff on the most popular consoles, slashing their audience by ~30% or more for no real gain.
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They're looking at the bigger picture - five years from now when the next lot of consoles are out, conditioning consumers to expect games to be Xbox/PC exclusive from Bethesda, ABK and future publisher acquisitions with the exception of Call of Duty to convert more people from buying PlayStation to buying Xbox instead.

In the meantime the Xbox division will still be very profitable from King and other live service games, plus probably making the early access edition more widespread through their studios as the Starfield one sold a boatload.
 
Windrunner

Windrunner

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Oct 25, 2017
6,650
Super said:
Lords of the Fallen has had more marketing in Europe (France, Germany, UK sample than Starfield. It's so bizarre how their marketing strategy works.
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I haven't noticed anything in my neck of the woods either.

I don't understand Xbox using big acquisitions as a panacea for their problems rather than doing the basics like investing in something as fundamental as marketing.
 

Ratuso

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Nov 27, 2021
1,240
YozoraXV said:
Yeah MS will be the Apple of gaming while Sony will be Android.

Xbox will have less market share but make more money. They don't need to be number one to stay in hardware.
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Apple's brand power and PS one is very similar though, both brands display quality. I think Netflix is a better example for Xbox. While Sony is HBO
 
TimotheusNL

TimotheusNL

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Jun 9, 2023
943
Damien1990 said:
They're looking at the bigger picture - five years from now when the next lot of consoles are out, conditioning consumers to expect games to be Xbox/PC exclusive from Bethesda, ABK and future publisher acquisitions with the exception of Call of Duty to convert more people from buying PlayStation to buying Xbox instead.

In the meantime the Xbox division will still be very profitable from King and other live service games, plus probably making the early access edition more widespread through their studios as the Starfield one sold a boatload.
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This month shows that even the biggest exclusive struggles to entice people to pick up an Xbox over a Playstation.

More likely is Playstation, Nintendo and PC all keep doing what they are doing and Microsoft is potentially hamstringing these big-ticket IP by not releasing them where the majority of the players are. At some point it's going to hurt the bottom line and you risk devaluating the developer as well.

Some of these IP have potential to be evergreen money-makers like Skyrim (est. 60mil sales), GTAV (est. 180mil sales) or Minecraft (est. 300mil sales).
Gambling with that profit potential for the promise of a bump in Xbox sales in the future when every current gamer is already entrenched in their platform and digital library of choice, is a bold move.
 
jroc74

jroc74

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Oct 27, 2017
29,687
panda-zebra said:
Dring last month:

"However, Xbox Series S and X struggled, with sales down nearly 12% compared with the same period in 2022. This will likely be a different story come September, with a new hardware SKU and the launch of Starfield expected to boost sales."

And this month:

"Nintendo Switch sales were down 28% compared with last September, while Xbox Series S and X sales are down 35% for that four-week period."
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MrTired said:
Whelp he like a lot of people didn't see this coming.
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Yeah....
 

Razzamoly

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Aug 24, 2023
42
It's difficult to get people to buy your console when you don't market it. Meanwhile, Sony have been marketing the Playstation during the Champions League for decades. That's the sort of marketing investment Microsoft needs if they're wanting to shift consoles.
 
Alexandros

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Oct 26, 2017
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Peek-a-boo! said:
If arguably the most persuasive/influential game out of their first party stable can't turn things around, what will?
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Isn't the answer obvious? Several persuasive/influential games out of their first-party stable, released in regular intervals. Starfield is a big game but it's not a Mario 64-like "buy a console just for one game" phenomenon. We don't get those kinds of games anymore, consistency and frequency of quality output sells consoles.
 
Gavalanche

Gavalanche

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Belota said:
www.tweaktown.com

PlayStation delivers record $26.9 billion revenue, operating profit drops 40%

Sony's PlayStation games division made a record-breaking $26.9 billion in revenues throughout FY 2022, but high expenses caused operating income to slide.
www.tweaktown.com www.tweaktown.com
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That was related to Bungie and general expansion of first party. With Microsoft, acquisitions don't go under Xboxes budget, they are factored in the overall company; with Sony because of how they are structured, all game related acquisitions do fall under playstation. Therefore, anything like that counts against playstations profits.

MrTired said:
Might want to check again the reason why there profit declined. Might have something to do about accounting for the Bungie acquisition.



Actually that is fair to say. Whelp if your second biggest game of the generation can't significant move units what can? How do you arrest the decline in hardware? Do they care to?
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It wont be just one game, they need to release a series of good games to turn it around. Having said that, I don't ever expect them to get far in Europe regardless of what they do, but they will do well on PC so perhaps it doesnt matter to them.
 
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