balgajo

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,251
I'm fine with this. In this context I believe:

State has to provide means to treat gambling addiction.
State has to sponsor awareness campaign about gambling.
State has to provide education to population to pass to their children.
State has not the right to forbid people from gambling.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,133
Countries where, surprise, the tables are actually blocked and can't play them. Wonder why, maybe because this is fucking gambling?

It's not gambling. I don't know the reason why Rockstar is doing this, but the whole point of social casino is to avoid gambling regulations. Social casino apps are available in a lot of countries with such limitations in place, including the USA.
 

DavidDesu

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,718
Glasgow, Scotland
But that is not Take Two / R* fault. I said it's legal not that is great. If you let your under 18 kids play a Pegi 18+ game it's your fault i think.

Btw i'm not defending microtransaction / gambling etc... As i said i never spent money in "in game" transactions. It's a shitty way of making money.
NO. Gambling in the UK is highly restricted in terms of premises and online you need debit cards linked to accounts that can help verify the age of the user I'm sorry but any kid can play GTA that's installed on their family PS4 and they can buy credit through various means that has little to no age verification in place. No game should feature this, in people's living rooms where (granted) parents aren't as vigilant and are rather naive what is possible. This is all on the games industry and shame on them.
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,886
This is worse than an actual casino since you can't cash out.

You couldn't be more wrong. This is both the reason why it isn't technically gambling and the reason it isn't nearly as dangerous as gambling. This is virtual gambling and it's nowhere near as novel or outrageous as people in here would have you believe.

The very fact that you can win real money is a large part of the attraction to gambling.
 

ShinobiBk

One Winged Slayer
Member
Dec 28, 2017
10,132
I bet half of the posters here played GTA III in their pre-teens get the fuck out of here with these joke misdirects
 

Absoludacrous

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
3,228
I'm not at all a "marketplace of ideas" kind of guy but...if this is really as dumb as it sounds I think it should fail pretty fast?
Lootboxes are valuable to children because they get cool costumes. Ya know, things to show off.
I'm not convinced those same kids are going to plunk down their hard earned shark cards for a chance to spin the wheel.

You realize people aren't going to gamble for the fun of gambling right? They're going to do it to hit the "jackpot" so they can buy cool stuff in GTA Online to "show off"
 

dennett316

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,020
Blackpool, UK
That's the parent's fault.

Not that I agree with this, especially because its Rockstar who already makes stupid amounts of money.
Parents probably have certain expectations when it comes to video games...they're basically seen as toys to many. I doubt many parents expect these kind of damaging mechanics to show up in a video game, and that's exactly why this issue has been a hot topic for many years. This kind of insidious creeping in of more and more exploitative ways to part people of their cash has been sickening to see. If they want these mechanics, they should be subject to the same regulations as other forms of gambling.
 

PrintedCrayon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
771
Seadome
No, no! You guys just don't get it.

This is trademark Rockstar satire showing you just how ridiculous the video game industry is!!

/s
 

ElectricBlanketFire

What year is this?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,073
You couldn't be more wrong. This is both the reason why it isn't technically gambling and the reason it isn't nearly as dangerous as gambling. This is virtual gambling and it's nowhere near as novel or outrageous as people in here would have you believe.

How so?

How is it not gambling when you're spending money to play in a virtual casino?
 

Deleted member 5491

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,249
GTA is PEGI 18+.

There is nothing wrong with it. If adults want to spend money gambling in a videogame they can do it.

Do i like it? Absolutely not. I never spent a single Lira in a videogame. It's just another way to make money and increase profits. Welcome to capitalism.
Other than going into an actual Casino, everybody can play a videogame no matter the age it it won't stop them.
Cause PEGI, ESRB, USK whatever are recommendations. Which only prevent you from buying the game but not playing it.
And based on the ESRB, Gambling would require the game to be AO

(And as far as I know, Online Gambling is illegal in Germany, without a specific licence)
 

DavidDesu

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,718
Glasgow, Scotland
Woah I am guessing they acquired licenses for online gambling? Otherwise this wouldn't be allowed. This is straight up gambling.

Like someone also mentioned you can't cash out. Cash me outside....
You can't cash out and there's absolutely no regulations about the games and how they operate, so there's little hope of fairness either. It's entirely completely wrong.
 

RoninStrife

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,002
Rockstar... this is quite disgusting, I honestly abhor gambling. After seeing what gambling has done to people in my life.. I have extra personal disdain for this, it isn't just a game mechanic, it's designed to manipulate a disease.
 

Rodelero

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,886
For what it's worth, all of the people implying that the inability to cash out makes it worse, are simply making it clear that they don't give a damn about protecting vulnerable people. Think about it for five seconds from the point of view of the people you say you care about. This is an activity from which you can gain no monetary reward. There's no "One more spin and I'll get it all back", there's no "This will change my life", there's no "This can pay off all my debts".

How so?

How is it not gambling when you're spending money to play in a virtual casino?

By most legal definitions, it is the ability to win money by staking money that defines gambling. Spending money to gamble in GTA Online is no different to spending money to do pretty much any activity in GTA Online, from a legal point of view.
 

Jakisthe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,778
To everyone saying that this isn't illegal:

It may not be illegal now, but if they keep pushing the envelope you're going to see a number of governments starting to say "Maybe we should update our laws to make it illegal."
I mean, I'm not sure on what basis it would be illegal.

Best I can tell, this isn't that different from other MTX. Unlike loot boxes, players know exactly what they're getting with their money. I guess an argument could half-heartedly be made that it then falls to them to leverage it well to make an in-game payday, but the said could be said about a ton of other MTX, that players who are less skilled at using whatever systems don't leverage what they purchase as well.

Laws don't worry about the art assets or gameplay elements something is wrapped in.
 

F4raday

Member
Jul 4, 2019
211
You couldn't be more wrong. This is both the reason why it isn't technically gambling and the reason it isn't nearly as dangerous as gambling. This is virtual gambling and it's nowhere near as novel or outrageous as people in here would have you believe.

The very fact that you can win real money is a large part of the attraction to gambling.

The psychological aspects are the same though. Gambling is not addictive because you win money, gambling is addictive because of the psychological rush you get from it. And all games of chance (including lootboxes and GTAV casino) have this aspect.

I mean, I'm not sure on what basis it would be illegal.

Best I can tell, this isn't that different from other MTX. Unlike loot boxes, players know exactly what they're getting with their money. I guess an argument could half-heartedly be made that it then falls to them to leverage it well to make an in-game payday, but the said could be said about a ton of other MTX, that players who aren't skilled at the game don't leverage what they purchase as well.

Laws don't worry about the art assets or gameplay elements something is wrapped in.

On the basis that it's a perdatory practice that is based on abusing psychological weaknesess to make money. This is socially hurtfull and thus there is a reason for this to become illegal (or rather - strongly regulated).

I mean, it's not that gambling is illegal in most countries. It's perfectly legal. It's just hard to get into, and that's why game devs and publishers avoid falling into gambling regulations. It's not that "surprise mechanics" are illegal. They just have to comply, and that makes it:
a) costly
b) harder to abuse people
 

Deleted member 49611

Nov 14, 2018
5,052
Fuck Rockstar. I played GTA Online way back at launch but it was obvious where they were going with it and stopped playing.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,539
This is both absolutely terrible and the perfect fucking satire of this industry. I'm disgusted and impressed.
 

ElectricBlanketFire

What year is this?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,073
For what it's worth, all of the people implying that the inability to cash out makes it worse, are immediately telling you just how little they care about protecting vulnerable people.

By most legal definitions, it is the ability to win money by staking money that defines gambling. Spending money to gamble in GTA Online is no different to spending money to do pretty much any activity in GTA Online, from a legal point of view.

Citing the legal definition of gambling isn't a good argument.
 

Deleted member 5491

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,249
You couldn't be more wrong. This is both the reason why it isn't technically gambling and the reason it isn't nearly as dangerous as gambling. This is virtual gambling and it's nowhere near as novel or outrageous as people in here would have you believe.

The very fact that you can win real money is a large part of the attraction to gambling.
So that's why people aren't addictive to loot boxes...
OH WAIT THEY TOTALLY ARE

It's fucking gambling without the chance to win, and no age check, so it's even worse
 

Durden

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
12,590
It's really no different than most gambling in games already. Especially mobile games. It's just that it's presented in a Casino format that's making people have weird placebo things. Fifa and Madden have basically been doing this for over half a decade now, so it's not new to AAA games either.
 

DavidDesu

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,718
Glasgow, Scotland
I'd love to see the people saying "but the game is 18+", what they'd say if Rockstar brought in the hardcore porn DLC and kids were seeing violent porn on their consoles instead of it being gambling.
 

neilyadig

Member
Nov 13, 2017
589
How is this different from slots apps on iOS/Android?

You pay real money, and then you can only win in-game currency or things like a free buffet in Vegas.
 

Dweebo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
86
This sucks but at the same time I'm cracking up over people worried about kids being exposed to the gambling when they're already exposed to an M-rated game they probably shouldn't have access to.
 

Astandahl

Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,070
NO. Gambling in the UK is highly restricted in terms of premises and online you need debit cards linked to accounts that can help verify the age of the user I'm sorry but any kid can play GTA that's installed on their family PS4 and they can buy credit through various means that has little to no age verification in place. No game should feature this, in people's living rooms where (granted) parents aren't as vigilant and are rather naive what is possible. This is all on the games industry and shame on them.
This is very true but you can still limit your kids access to the main account with a "sub account" that can only do specific stuff ( IIRC). The gaming industry is " just " exploiting the fact that many parents don't control what their kids are playing or they don't know that they can't limit them. The fact that the parents don't know how to do it is not a justification though. ( AGAIN I' M NOT SAYING THAT THIS IS GOOD. I think that a game mode like FUT should be banned and said multiple times here )

Btw do you think that the gaming industry is different from other industries? They are here to make money in every way possible. Beginning of last gen we saw the rise of DLC with main content cut from the game , then microtransactions in 60 dollars games. This gen they have found new ( terrifying ) systems to increase their profits.
 

Flevance

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,571
What the hack, haven't they gained enough money already? GTA V is probably already sold as much as Metal Gear and Resident Evil franchises combined!
 

Fatmanp

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,449
This content must have been ready to go for years I bet. I can also bet they have been sitting on it whilst lawyers are fighting in the background to ensure they can keep it.
 

Ohri-Jin

Banned
Jul 11, 2019
1,129
The Netherlands
You can't cash out and there's absolutely no regulations about the games and how they operate, so there's little hope of fairness either. It's entirely completely wrong.
I always wondered why Rockstar didn't implement a Casino way sooner and assumed because of online gambling licences. In the Netherlands there was a time online gambling was illegal, but for maybe half a decade now it has been reversed.

It seems just because you can't cash out (but cash flow can get in directly) it is somehow not gambling? They definitely need to regulate more and more efficiently in that case.

I agree this is so wrong on so many levels. This is the worst kind of implementation I have ever seen. They are basically trivializing the whole thing.
 

Wiped

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
2,096
GTA is PEGI 18+.

There is nothing wrong with it. If adults want to spend money gambling in a videogame they can do it.

Do i like it? Absolutely not. I never spent a single Lira in a videogame. It's just another way to make money and increase profits. Welcome to capitalism.

I agree with this. It's 18 rated. The problem is America, where games that you can only sell to adults are banned for some reason.
 

Taker34

QA Tester
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,122
building stone people
Seriously, would it kill Rockstar to not connect GTA dollars and casino currency? I hope chance based microtransactions will get heavily sanctioned or banned by most governments one day.