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Zen

"This guy are sick" says The Wise Ones
Member
Nov 1, 2017
9,669
He also claimed to be "Anti-jeans, anti-bourbon, anti-burgers", "Anti-fried chicken, anti-cola, anti-American coffee", and "Anti-New York, Anti-West Coast, Disneyland go back to America!"

dude seems anti america period. wonder what he thinks of japanese atrocities during ww2. i absolutely see where his criticisms are coming from but a lot of older japanese people also have blinders when it comes to things japan did during that same era.
Did you know he faced major backlash in Japan for daring to criticize the military's actions during WW2?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.sc...miyazakis-newest-film-soars-despite-criticism

https://kotaku.com/hayao-miyazaki-called-anti-japanese-a-traitor-and-865643505/amp

He isn't afraid to let his opinions be known, and that includes his own home country. A nationalist he is not, and the dude has had his words used by too many people and faced backlash when they don't like what they hear.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,296
Appreciate the posts that dissected the perspective Miyazaki comes from. Actually some smart posting for once on ERA.

Still a lot of post that outright dismiss Miyazaki and aren't willing to consider his criticism cause it's about a thing they like.
That's kinda what ERA usually seems to be. So happy that actually a good amount of people were sensible and spoke up and tried to give more context to the statements.

I myself would probably fall under the "idiots" as Miyazaki put it given I have a soft spot for LotR as it was part of my growing up.
But as an adult I can very much understand where he is coming from.

I appreciate this post a lot
A big difference between Princess Mononoke and LOTR is the role of society in the narratives. In Mononoke there's multiple competing societies (Ainu, Iron Town, forest denizens) with different and conflicting interests. There's corruption (figuratively) in Iron Town and corruption (literally) in the forest, and the resolution is the excising of these corrupting influences as well as the establishment of harmony between the societies.

LOTR, due to the mythopoetic nature of it, is about Good triumphing over Evil. There's also elves, but they're kind of neutral (well they weren't neutral in the films but they were non-interventionist in the books). There's individual evil and corruption, like Saruman and Denethor, but nothing like rights or society for orcs and goblins despite being ostensibly sentient. They're slaughtered without mercy, they have no motives except for conquest, no agency except to be killed by the Good Guys. Peace arrives at the defeat of evil and the return of the King (to a prior status quo of enlightened mystic kings).

The book is more complex than this but the film wasn't.
 

Dream Machine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,085
I love everyone who jumps right to "Oh sure what about Japan's war crimes? Gotcha!"

The dude's a pacifist lefty who hates the current right wing government of Japan and thinks japan hasn't properly atoned for war crimes of WWII. Just because you can only conceive of anime (and therefore japan, and all japanese people) as alt-right because of memes and twitter avatars doesn't mean you actually have a point
 

OSHAN

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,947
I'm surprised by some of the takes on The Wind Rises in this thread. I appreciated Chaw's review:

https://www.filmfreakcentral.net/ffc/2014/02/the-wind-rises-frozen.html

Hayao Miyazaki's alleged swan song The Wind Rises is mature, romantic, grand storytelling that just happens to be something like a romanticized biography of Jiro Horikoshi, the aeronautical engineer behind the design of the Mitsubishi A5M, which led, ultimately, to the Zero. Indeed, for a Western audience, watching Jiro's dreams of squadrons of Zeros buzzing over fields of green is chilling, and advance critics seemed unable to distinguish the Japanese war machine from the film's focus on a life lived in pursuit of dreams. In truth, separating these two aspects of the picture--the proximate and the historical--is self-defeating. (Dismissing the movie out of hand is equally blinkered.) One without the other, The Wind Rises loses anything like substance, resonance, importance. It would fall on the one side into gauzy bullshit, on the other into Triumph of the Will. As is, it's something more akin to Studio Ghibli's own Grave of the Fireflies in its humanizing of a man whose dreams were corrupted into something terrible. Einstein would be one of the West's potential Horikoshi corollaries--and if Miyazaki had done Albert's biography, I'd expect to see mushroom clouds illustrating his fantasies of relativity. For Horikoshi, Miyazaki provides upheavals and disasters as highlight to each of his life events: He first meets his wife in a train crash; in a lilting epilogue, when Jiro bids farewell to his dead wife, Miyazaki offers fields of devastation and a village in flames. Throughout, Miyazaki presents earthquakes, rainstorms, sudden bursts of wind as reminders of...what? The inevitability of change? The portents of war? The cycles of life and death? All of that; but what compels is the idea of helplessness in the face of larger forces--that although we chase our dreams, we're never really in control of our destinies.
 

smurfx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,609
Did you know he faced major backlash in Japan for daring to criticize the military's actions during WW2?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.sc...miyazakis-newest-film-soars-despite-criticism

https://kotaku.com/hayao-miyazaki-called-anti-japanese-a-traitor-and-865643505/amp

He isn't afraid to let his opinions be known, and that includes his own home country. A nationalist he is not, and the dude has had his words used by too many people and faced backlash when they don't like what they hear.
happy to see this.
 

nitewulf

Member
Nov 29, 2017
7,225
If you read the original work, you'll understand, but in reality, the ones who were being killed are Asians and Africans. Those who don't know that, yet say they love fantasy are idiots.
Much respect to him, but I didn't get this part. I haven't read LOTR but in the movies are minorities being killed off? This seems a relevant criticism of 300 for instance, where I cringed throughout the whole movie yet the whole USA was going "RAH RAH white peeps be superior, fuck those brown Persian savages!". I mean the movie is sooooooo on the nose it's embarrassingly racist, the Persians and their PoC allies are caricatured to hell yet people unashamedly love that movie.

He is on point about Indy and any George Lucas movies in general. I am disappointed Spielberg is tied to this franchise. Indy movies are great fun, but their take on early 20th century pulp wasn't a progressive take at all. It was basically all the exotic Orientalist stereotypes and racism in a shiny wrapper.
 

adamsappel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,503
Yeah that wouldn't make sense, but that means the book lied to me!!!

I mean it's not the only time a different nationality has played a different ethnicity in these films. John Rys Davis, who's Welsh, played Sallah, a middle eastern character.
I just skimmed through my copy of the novelization. Nah, Toht's a bog-standard Nazi. And Ronald Lacey is also Welsh!
 

Pet

More helpful than the IRS
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,070
SoCal
Hayao Miyazaki: "I don't like how there is structurual racism/imperialism in these two works and I take this seriously"

Rustled nerds of Resetera: "shut up you old nip"

Stay classy folks

keke

Did you know he faced major backlash in Japan for daring to criticize the military's actions during WW2?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.sc...miyazakis-newest-film-soars-despite-criticism

https://kotaku.com/hayao-miyazaki-called-anti-japanese-a-traitor-and-865643505/amp

He isn't afraid to let his opinions be known, and that includes his own home country. A nationalist he is not, and the dude has had his words used by too many people and faced backlash when they don't like what they hear.

I didn't know this.




I don't see anything wrong with what he's saying. It's also not unique-- there are a number of people who point out the subconscious framing that reinforces western media's tendency to demonize nonwhite people and make imperialists look like protagonists.
 

KillLaCam

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,390
Seoul
Me either. Besides some horror/thriller movies and Tarantino stuff. Especially since everything is basically a super hero movie right now.

I didn't really notice his criticism about lord of the rings when I watched it though though. Seems like he's criticizing that the same way that alot of people in Era do for Japanese media.

I agree with the Indiana Jones stuff though
 

Seesaw15

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,824
This guy makes cartoons for a living. Stick with what you're good at old man.
3039.jpg
 

Bor Gullet

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,399
Much respect to him, but I didn't get this part. I haven't read LOTR but in the movies are minorities being killed off? This seems a relevant criticism of 300 for instance, where I cringed throughout the whole movie yet the whole USA was going "RAH RAH white peeps be superior, fuck those brown Persian savages!". I mean the movie is sooooooo on the nose it's embarrassingly racist, the Persians and their PoC allies are caricatured to hell yet people unashamedly love that movie.

He is on point about Indy and any George Lucas movies in general. I am disappointed Spielberg is tied to this franchise. Indy movies are great fun, but their take on early 20th century pulp wasn't a progressive take at all. It was basically all the exotic Orientalist stereotypes and racism in a shiny wrapper.

Well Indiana Jones is based on the 30's adventure serial, which were faaar more problematic in this regard. The IJ movies are almost progressive when compared to what came in the past.

And to Spielberg's credit, when he did the Tintin movie, the racism that plagued the comics wasn't anywhere to be found in the movie.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,935
Me either. Besides some horror/thriller movies and Tarantino stuff. Especially since everything is basically a super hero movie right now

...There's so much more than super hero movies. I feel like people don't realize literally hundreds of movies release a year. Many aren't even superhero-like, let alone about superheroes.
 

JPLC

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
185
Canada
I'm surprised by some of the takes on The Wind Rises in this thread. I appreciated Chaw's review:

https://www.filmfreakcentral.net/ffc/2014/02/the-wind-rises-frozen.html

Hayao Miyazaki's alleged swan song The Wind Rises is mature, romantic, grand storytelling that just happens to be something like a romanticized biography of Jiro Horikoshi, the aeronautical engineer behind the design of the Mitsubishi A5M, which led, ultimately, to the Zero. Indeed, for a Western audience, watching Jiro's dreams of squadrons of Zeros buzzing over fields of green is chilling, and advance critics seemed unable to distinguish the Japanese war machine from the film's focus on a life lived in pursuit of dreams. In truth, separating these two aspects of the picture--the proximate and the historical--is self-defeating. (Dismissing the movie out of hand is equally blinkered.) One without the other, The Wind Rises loses anything like substance, resonance, importance. It would fall on the one side into gauzy bullshit, on the other into Triumph of the Will. As is, it's something more akin to Studio Ghibli's own Grave of the Fireflies in its humanizing of a man whose dreams were corrupted into something terrible. Einstein would be one of the West's potential Horikoshi corollaries--and if Miyazaki had done Albert's biography, I'd expect to see mushroom clouds illustrating his fantasies of relativity. For Horikoshi, Miyazaki provides upheavals and disasters as highlight to each of his life events: He first meets his wife in a train crash; in a lilting epilogue, when Jiro bids farewell to his dead wife, Miyazaki offers fields of devastation and a village in flames. Throughout, Miyazaki presents earthquakes, rainstorms, sudden bursts of wind as reminders of...what? The inevitability of change? The portents of war? The cycles of life and death? All of that; but what compels is the idea of helplessness in the face of larger forces--that although we chase our dreams, we're never really in control of our destinies.
Thank you for this. The review states the subdued power of The Wind Rises quite well.
 

B.K.

Member
Oct 31, 2017
17,081
That's okay. I'm not fond of Miyzaki movies. Castle of Cagliostro is his only movie that I've ever been able to finish.
 
This guy makes cartoons for a living. Stick with what you're good at old man.
...making cartoons with great, positive messages with a strong progressive bend, strong characterization that often highlight female protagonists, all the while with breathtaking technical prowess and an eye for action that easily matches the best that live-action films can produce. Those cartoons?
 

mjc

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,899
I understand where he's coming from with the comments about using non-white races in LOTR, that's definitely something that's been talked about for a long time now.

But I don't get his comments about it otherwise. The forces of Sauron are the ones that don't differentiate between civilian and soldier, and the whole point of the trilogy is that war is being waged for the fate of the world. It's gonna have violence.
 

Sunster

The Fallen
Oct 5, 2018
10,059
I want to know more about the imperialist themes of LotR. Anyone have a good link for that?
 

Huey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,302
He's not at all wrong about the "white guys are the good guys" visual systems in many Western films.

I would hope as an unbelievably talented film-maker, he could appreciate other things in these films though.

I dunno... hard to really say without being able to read the full interview (unless there's a way I missed, the only link I can get there is Japanese scans)
Honest question, where in LotR do the good guys kill civilians?

Thought the same thing. I suppose when Mordor collapses, if you consider the orcs a culture, then that was a type of genocide.
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659
This and his insane rant against that guy for the zombie AI program prove that Miyazaki has his head buried way up his own ass. Ass in head not withstanding, though, dude is still one of the greats.
 

Deleted member 225

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,658
...making cartoons with great, positive messages with a strong progressive bend, strong characterization that often highlight female protagonists, all the while with breathtaking technical prowess and an eye for action that easily matches the best that live-action films can produce. Those cartoons?
Nevermind the fact that he is also one of the most respected and influential people in all of film.

I'm sure Peter Jackson and Speilberg both view him as someone who "just makes cartoons".
 

Illusion

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,407
Prove you can make a better American movie, but animated and in your style, also make a trilogy to prove you can also do that better. Then make even more movies to just rub it in our face.


.... I just want more Miyazaki movies.
 

Zen

"This guy are sick" says The Wise Ones
Member
Nov 1, 2017
9,669
I understand where he's coming from with the comments about using non-white races in LOTR, that's definitely something that's been talked about for a long time now.

But I don't get his comments about it otherwise. The forces of Sauron are the ones that don't differentiate between civilian and soldier, and the whole point of the trilogy is that war is being waged for the fate of the world. It's gonna have violence.
That's the problem. The orcs have no society and no humanity. They are the 'other', even their origins as corrupted dead elves casts them in a demonic light. Extrapolate that out to how minorities have been treated and represented as in western media through history and you get an idea.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,826
But I don't get his comments about it otherwise. The forces of Sauron are the ones that don't differentiate between civilian and soldier, and the whole point of the trilogy is that war is being waged for the fate of the world. It's gonna have violence.
I may be being presumptuous about his opinions, but a response to that could be how much Hollywood loves making stories about righteous wars and justified violence so it doesn't have to pay much more than lip service to the human costs of either.
 

AuthenticM

Son Altesse Sérénissime
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,324
He's talking about the racist and white supremacist undertones of a lot of american movies, including LotR and Indiana Jones.
 

RCSI

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,840
Can't believe everyone on ResetEra is getting their jimmies rustled by Hayao Miyazaki.

His comments are 100% true, and people are reacting to this like when Morrissey speaks his mind.

I have seen similar discussions and comments on the racial elements brought up about LotR and other western films as well on ResetEra, so it's not even new for the site. Though I am having a hard time understanding Miyazaki's civilian comments on the movie. Hopefully someone may enlighten me on that aspect and I will give the thread another read in case I missed that segment.
 

Nephtis

Banned
Dec 27, 2017
679
Don't really care about what he likes or doesn't like. He makes good anime movies but that's it. Dude is put on a pedestal all the time so I am not surprised he has these views. His condescension is to be expected.
 

Tetra-Grammaton-Cleric

user requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,958
Outside of Temple of Doom, I really don't understand the Indy criticisms.

The villains of Raiders and Crusade are white Nazis and the villains in Skull are white Russians.

Indy's body count in these films is overwhelmingly white and mostly Nazis.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,690
He is right. This is what it's like watching movies when you're not white. Gaming too. Some of us (black, for example)are constantly subjected to worlds where it's clear that the creators wish we didn't exist. We are flat out erased and people are cool with it. James Baldwin said pretty much the same thing:

"Leaving aside the bloody catalog of oppression, what this does to [the American Negro] is it destroys his sense of reality. It comes as a great shock around the age of 6-7 that when Gary Cooper killing off the American Indians, when you were rooting for Gary Cooper, the Indians are you. It comes as a great shock to discover that the country, which is your birth place, and to which you owe your life and your identity has not in it's whole system of reality involved any place for you."

Once you realize it, it takes some serious effort to look past it.