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I've read the books but I completely get this take tbh, not sure I'd be enjoying it much if I hadn't read the books. The pacing is a bit weird as it feels like they're throwing a ton at you without proper context of why its happening.
Same, I was feeling dread during that scene :(
I haven't read the books and I thought that the scene where we learn Billy no longer has his daemon was very well done.
It is established that many daemons like playing with other daemons (so not exactly where their human is), and that some small ones prefer to hide in clothes (snakes for example). I can see why you're sad not to see them all all the time but there are internal explanations and come on, it is more than enough.
Not to where "where's his daemon" should be immediately coming out of her mouth when, as you said, its established they hide and stuff on the show.
Given the state of the kid, surely the daemon would show itself ? Plus she knows the daemon, probably its temper, and she even possibly knows about the visible effects of such a removal, hence her immediate denial.
I'm not saying everything is explained in detail, but it didn't strike me as illogical. Maybe some non-book readers will agree with you but for now it doesn't seem like a big deal.
What seems more questionable is the pacing. I like it, but I can totally understand the criticism on that front. Hopefully what comes after will justify it.
I just wish, they gave the world time to take a breath.They are throwing all these details at me, telling me i should care, but they dont give me enough time to make a connection to these things. It feels more like i'm watching the second season and i still don't get what's the point of deamons. Yes, they are more like pets, but that's it? The bad guy is switching between the worlds, and wants to stop/hunt people who also do it, because?
I don't know, it's just not pulling me in as it could, cause the world is interesting, but just saying "the church is evil" and you need to stop them is just not enough for me.
If they answered all those questions in three, four or five episodes, what questions remain to be answered?
Go along for the ride knowing that answers are coming. If having a talking animal soul isn't enough to fascinate you, this show just might not be for you.
It's not just about answering, but giving them more of a backstory. Just putting someone there doing evil things is a bit too simple. I will watch it till end, and see how i will like it then.
Well yeah, it kinda is not enough, i wish they would connect more with their animals. Show how they share the same feelings, how it affects them, how they synchronise, cause they are part of each other, how they can profit from that connection, for now it just seems like they are some pets walking next to them. The best interaction between daemon and his person was the eagle and the witch, when he said "everything i see, she sees. Everything i feel she feels" etc., it showed that they are really connected.
I wish they would tell us more about the church other than "they are evil." That is literally all you know if you are just a show watcher. I don't even know what the church believes or is premised upon, and I don't think we met any "normal" church folk who are not mustache twirling villains. They are written like a large corporation, not a church. It could use some world building.
What about when Benjamin was feeling his daemons pain? When pan was scared walking up the path and it was pulling lycra back where they found billy? How awful it was seeing a person without their daemon? When in almost the opening scene, the master of Jordan colleges daemon was urging him on when he was having a moral dilemma?
And we're about to see how important daemons are seen in their world in 2 episodes most likely.
Ahh yeah, forgot about the scene with Benjamin. The scene with Lyra and Pan: Pan was making some dog noises, like when a dog is scared, and that's why Lyra started getting scared too, i didn't see any soul connection there. My dog gets between my legs when he is scared, so i can protect him, and this is also what Pan with Lyra was doing.
Whilst I'm loving the show - I do think the above non book readers have a point. It is clearly explained how much humans and daemons are connected in Lyra's world and the horror of meeting the little boy without his daemon IN THE BOOKS. But I don't think it's anywhere nearly as well explained in the show. It's not bothering me as I read the books and can connect the dots and get what's being implied - but I won't harshly judge those who see it differently.
For example whilst I do think the TV Show is doing a much better job than the film - this popped up in my Youtube feed and clearly explains how the finding of the severed child is vastly different between the book and the film. After watching it - realized that the TV Show isn't doing it anywhere as good as the book does either.
For example whilst I do think the TV Show is doing a much better job than the film - this popped up in my Youtube feed and clearly explains how the finding of the severed child is vastly different between the book and the film. After watching it - realized that the TV Show isn't doing it anywhere as good as the book does either.
Yes, this is exactly the problem I had with the episode. Lyra really needed to more visably swallow her fear and be brave (she was repeating the mantra from Iorek and all!!) to get over the revulsion and disgust at someone who didn't have a daemon in order to care for her friend. Also, Billy lacking the ability to speak and the removal of the dried fish didn't do the scene any favors. It certainly is done better than the movie, but I think the video's point remains that they just didn't hit the right notes with this scene. It's really strange, because they are doing such a better job everywhere else...
You can assume that any lack of info is because that's how it is in the books. We've gotten a lot more than the book actually with all the "other world" stuff going on that was saved for later books. You're not missing out on anything because the journey is told through Lyra's perspective and she certainly doesn't understand the politics of her world or the Church. It's still a YA fiction book at the end of the day, but I could understand someone wanting a Game of Thrones style omniscient political take on the story and universe rather than sticking to the source material.
What's in the books is irrelevant to me, I'm just talking about the show. Sticking to source material is not an excuse for bad storytelling.
Also it's not all from Lyra's perspective, we get plenty of scenes of Ruth Wilson and the world hopping dude. We also had scenes of the college master dude, and Lin Manuel Miranda, with no Lyra. The show is just picking and choosing what to reveal and leaving certain characters and storylines as one dimensional. Makes it hard to care about what's happening.
It's hard to take "He's without his daemon?!" seriously when half the scenes with the main character don't feature her daemon and most of the other characters usually don't have theirs visible. Have we even seen the King of the Egyptians's daemon? Or the bearded second-in-command guy? What about Billy's mother? I don't remember any of the already-captured kids' daemons being featured either.
Because of all this, a person not having his daemon nearby doesn't actually carry any weight. When the kid died in this episode it was kind of surprising because I expected him to recover.
Heck, even the dialogue in the show said that he died because he'd been wandering for a long time and that the stress of the journey is what got him. They didn't actually say that it was because his daemon was gone.
Because of all this, a person not having his daemon nearby doesn't actually carry any weight. When the kid died in this episode it was kind of surprising because I expected him to recover.
Heck, even the dialogue in the show said that he died because he'd been wandering for a long time and that the stress of the journey is what got him. They didn't actually say that it was because his daemon was gone.
We've seen Lord Faa's hawk, Farder Coram's cat (it was in the funeral scene this episode as well), and Ma Costa also has a hawk (was hanging around the episode where her and Lyra were talking about Lyra's parents).
They are there. They're just not as prominent as they probably should be.
The way the show stages it makes it seem like some people have a daemon and some don't. Like, do all the washer women at the college have one? Where were they? Do all the ministry officers that stormed the Gyptian's boats have one, or just the one guy with the rottweiler?
I actually think this adaptation is doing a better job than the book of setting the stage for the later installments. They're fitting that context in by excising a lot of the expository background stuff (on daemon-human connections, etc.) that can be understood by simply paying attention to how characters act/react.
Daemons are more like...half your soul. They're not pets, they're a tangible manifestation of your heart, of your consciousness, and of yourself.
It's a fascinating concept. That's why if your daemon dies, you die.
I'd say at this point in the book, there is a huge amount of unexplained elements as well. So I think that's ok.
I think it explains some things fine (daemons). I think the lack of explanation of other things (church motives) makes me not care about the story as much.
I like mysteries but the villains shouldn't be one dimensional caricatures like this.
Why would that matter to me if I haven't read the books? And I wouldn't call them ambiguous in the show. They are just one dimensional mustache twirling villains.
My point is that it follows the books well. Not saying it's not a valid critique, just saying it's true to the source material.
"One dimensional" is already not true for Mrs. Coulter and Lord Boreal, the 2 major Church-related characters. The clash between professional motives and personal ambitions is already questioned.
Moral ambiguity is not the only way to characterize your "villains", especially in the first episodes.
Moral ambiguity is not the only way to characterize your "villains", especially in the first episodes.
The way I understood it, a daemon isn't exactly half of your soul, it's distinct from that, instead, it's your spirit. Not your literal spirit animal (although that kinda fits), but I believe it's based off of yet another christian trinity of the "body, soul, and spirit". Your (mortal) body is what it is, it remains after you die. Your (immortal) soul is you, your memory, mind, personality, ie, your "self". Your spirit is a distinct entity which animates your soul in your body, like your "breath" of life. Because your soul is immortal, presumably it is what goes on to an afterlife, but your spirit is only with you in life, hence, daemons disappearing on death. It's what ties your soul to your body. Usually, the "spirit" is considered to be divine, at least in christian doctrine, ie, the holy spirit, and it is a temporary (and invisible/intangible) gift given from god to let your immortal soul live a mortal life in a physical body.
Anyway, draw from the above what you will, in terms of what (I believe) the story is trying to depict with daemons. As others have said, in the books, we still have many questions at this point, and things are about to become much clearer (I hope) in the next few episodes.
i liked the introduction of will even if it's early
the relationship with his mother felt raw and real
the relationship with his mother felt raw and real
Overall, still liking the show - but I feel that little care in made is respect to constructing individuals episodes. As in events just happen one after another without any particular construction for the episode. Every week there is a scene which I feel should be the end of the episode... and then it continues on after. For example, really felt like this episode should have ended after Lyra is kidnapped.
And the real world scenes just don't fit in - they kind of completely take you out of the main adventure. I think it's a pretty bizarre decision to include them this season.
Anyway, LOVE Iorek - by far the most compelling character.
And the real world scenes just don't fit in - they kind of completely take you out of the main adventure. I think it's a pretty bizarre decision to include them this season.
Anyway, LOVE Iorek - by far the most compelling character.
More like everyone in the world except British people !
Waiting for Tuesday is damn hard.
The first book was very much like this. It threw you into the world and expected you to just catch up on the go.
I'm gonna spoiler this as people should see it in Episode 6 for themselves -
But Lyra and Mrs Coulter just screaming at each other through the door was magnificent!
This show is a disappointment for me, unfortunately. The His Dark Materials books were very dear to me when I was around 12; the Amber Skyglass was the first piece of media to make me cry. Watching Watchmen at the same time is also highlighting the gulf in quality and care for the respective properties.
The main problem of the show is that although is very truthful to the book, the emotional performances (Especially Lyra) are dreadful. The scenes are mostly like the books, but almost all of them fall flat when the characters have to act on them.
Series Lyra is mostly Book lyra, but holy fuck Dafne cant emote to save her life.
Series Lyra is mostly Book lyra, but holy fuck Dafne cant emote to save her life.
This episode is so dreary in visuals, so few colors, the lighting all the same - harsh. I love it, fits the tone of the story at the moment.
This asian guy playing the doctor or scientist, or whatever his profession is, was he in some other HBO show recently? He looks familiar.
Edit: whoa that was an intense scene, in the machine thingy
This asian guy playing the doctor or scientist, or whatever his profession is, was he in some other HBO show recently? He looks familiar.
Edit: whoa that was an intense scene, in the machine thingy
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Unfortunately the show doesn't work well with so many daemons missing in a world full of them. Bolvanger should have had daemons everywhere in the cafeteria scene.