His Dark Materials TV Series |OT| UK - BBC One, Sundays; RoW - HBO, Mondays [See spoiler guide in OP]

Complicated

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,693
Damn it's crazy how both this and Watchmen are just building in quality and momentum week after week. This was the best episode yet by far. I'm obsessed with Ruth Wilson and Daphne was incredibly good with the material in this episode. Can't wait for next week, but I feel like it's going to be an odd finale with how it's progressing.
 

valeo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
413
Damn it's crazy how both this and Watchmen are just building in quality and momentum week after week. This was the best episode yet by far. I'm obsessed with Ruth Wilson and Daphne was incredibly good with the material in this episode. Can't wait for next week, but I feel like it's going to be an odd finale with how it's progressing.
I thought that Dafne Keen + Wilson absolutely killed it (Miranda too;); but this episode really suffered by not being able to show the daemons properly. The show hasn't done a good of bringing the daemons to life (partly due to budget constraints and partly due to poor writing choices) - if I hadn't read the books, I'd still be wondering why the hell daemons are important.

The relationship between Lyra and Pan seems almost non existent and they haven't given any relationship time to breathe - except Mrs Coulter/Lyra, which I think has been quite well realised.
 

finalflame

Product Management
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,865
My partner is watching this and I’m tagging along and it’s so fucking bad. Everything is so overtly dramatic and poorly acted. I feel the show introduces a bunch of ideas without making you care about any of it and just expects you to be entertained. I’ll probably finish it now as I’m kinda going along for the ride but I haven’t seen a show that annoys me this much in a while.

The writing is also incredibly poor and at times cringe-inducing.
 

Complicated

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,693
I thought that Dafne Keen + Wilson absolutely killed it (Miranda too;); but this episode really suffered by not being able to show the daemons properly. The show hasn't done a good of bringing the daemons to life (partly due to budget constraints and partly due to poor writing choices) - if I hadn't read the books, I'd still be wondering why the hell daemons are important.

The relationship between Lyra and Pan seems almost non existent and they haven't given any relationship time to breathe - except Mrs Coulter/Lyra, which I think has been quite well realised.
Read the books and it's been fine to me. Not ideal but it hasn't bothered me or hindered the storytelling at all. They've done a great job at showing what needed to be shown, and I've been surprised at how many daemons are on screen the whole time.
 

Leeness

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,804
Iorek in the balloon lol <3

I feel like the daemon cage scene could have been stronger? This kind of goes back to them not quite hitting the relationship with Pan as much as they should. Lyra was screaming “let me out, let me out”, when it should have been “let us out, don’t take my heart, my soul from me!” (in the book. With her crying and screaming and trying to reach Pan)

Not to talk up the movie lol. But I think in terms of Lyra and Pan, the movie built the relationship more strongly (at this point).

Compare this and even though Lyra isn’t as fierce as she could be, it’s just Pan and Lyra yelling that they’ll never be separated, you can’t take us away from each other, etc.

I’m still really loving this but they’re not quite putting in the work on the daemon relationships. It’s not about more on the screen, it’s just about the ones we need to be more prominent.

They’ve built Lyra’s love for Roger, Lee, Iorek, Ma Costa more strongly, I feel.

Anyway. Still love this. They said they’ve wrapped on Subtle Knife recently so that’s awesome. Let’s get Amber Spyglass going 👏
 
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HiLife

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,918
All I could think during this episode was the core strength it would take to plank yourself under a bed irl lol.
 

Lotus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
49,689
Great episode, Ruth Wilson continues to kill it, and omfg, Serafina is a badass. Like... it's kind of funny having the Gyptians feel they're horribly outmatched when Serafina honestly looked like she could've took down the entire base by herself lol

Also I felt this episode did a better job of convincing me on how awful it is to lose your daemon. It could still be better of course, but the whole scene with the machine really helped sell it.

Only minor gripe is Lee already saying he loves Lyra. Like, we all know how this goes, where he warms up to her and becomes increasingly protective/fond of her to the point where he's in it for the long haul for her journey. But it was pretty rushed IMO given how little time they've actually spent together, though I guess that's the issue with a season only having 8 episodes to work with.
 

AzorAhai

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,011
What an amazing episode. Especially acting-wise !

Loving Lyra, Pan, Marisa, Lord Boreal, Roger, Lee and Iorek. Can't wait to see more of Will and Lord Asriel.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,016
I loved this episode. I think it's actually increasing in quality each week. Ruth Wilson is so perfect as Mrs Coulter, and Dafne Keen is really brilliant too. The scene with the both of them in the bedroom was the highlight of the episode IMO, and I loved the bit when they just screamed at each other through the door. I loved Iorek running around tearing shit up, and I love that the first thing Lyra said to him was a cheeky quip - she's a really likable character and her cheekiness is infectious.
 

Easy_G

Member
Dec 11, 2017
122
Iorek in the balloon lol <3

I feel like the daemon cage scene could have been stronger? This kind of goes back to them not quite hitting the relationship with Pan as much as they should. Lyra was screaming “let me out, let me out”, when it should have been “let us out, don’t take my heart, my soul from me!” (in the book. With her crying and screaming and trying to reach Pan)

Not to talk up the movie lol. But I think in terms of Lyra and Pan, the movie built the relationship more strongly (at this point).

Compare this and even though Lyra isn’t as fierce as she could be, it’s just Pan and Lyra yelling that they’ll never be separated, you can’t take us away from each other, etc.

I’m still really loving this but they’re not quite putting in the work on the daemon relationships. It’s not about more on the screen, it’s just about the ones we need to be more prominent.

They’ve built Lyra’s love for Roger, Lee, Iorek, Ma Costa more strongly, I feel.

Anyway. Still love this. They said they’ve wrapped on Subtle Knife recently so that’s awesome. Let’s get Amber Spyglass going 👏
True. The daemons really just feel more like pets than should. Similarly, I feel like the alethiometer has been downplayed as well. Lyra just started reading it perfectly, but in the books it was always more of a riddle and a feeling.

I do see the show getting better each episode, but something is keeping me from really enjoying. Perhaps it's these issues.
 

TheZynster

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,614
alright......i loved the golden compass movie which was completely fogged out by the catholic church at the time of its release.......was depressing because i thought the movie was really damn good.

Will i love this all the same? Is this first season like a retelling of the original movie since "His Dark Materials" is the name of the book series correct?
 

Tyaren

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,888
Pretty good series, way better than the movie. Glad they redid the books like this.

One thing that bothers me a little, and that was already mentioned by others in here:
I don't buy the strong connection of humans and their daemons. Mostly it's just the humans doing their thing and their daemons tagging along. They barely interact. In some scenes it even seems they forgot about the daemons entirely. I am all the time like: Wait, where is Pan? Shouldn't he be right next to her? Did he get through that door before she shut it behind her...?
 

Razmos

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,885
alright......i loved the golden compass movie which was completely fogged out by the catholic church at the time of its release.......was depressing because i thought the movie was really damn good.

Will i love this all the same? Is this first season like a retelling of the original movie since "His Dark Materials" is the name of the book series correct?
Yeah, the first season adapts the first book, which is what the movie was based on.
 

doncabesa

Member
Jun 27, 2018
673
Pretty good series, way better than the movie. Glad they redid the books like this.

One thing that bothers me a little, and that was already mentioned by others in here:
I don't buy the strong connection of humans and their daemons. Mostly it's just the humans doing their thing and their daemons tagging along. They barely interact. In some scenes it even seems they forgot about the daemons entirely. I am all the time like: Wait, where is Pan? Shouldn't he be right next to her? Did he get through that door before she shut it behind her...?
They talked about how hard it was to have Daemons in every scene as it would detract from the main actors so that's why you don't always see them, but I agree that the bond between humans and daemons feels far lessened from the book so far. Other than that I'm loving it.
 

Kirblar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,861
Someone earlier mentioned that the movie didn't end at the same point. Was the facility the end of the movie adaptation?

And as a non-book reader, the lack of omnipresent Daemons is a massive, massive error from production.
 

Leeness

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,804
True. The daemons really just feel more like pets than should. Similarly, I feel like the alethiometer has been downplayed as well. Lyra just started reading it perfectly, but in the books it was always more of a riddle and a feeling.

I do see the show getting better each episode, but something is keeping me from really enjoying. Perhaps it's these issues.
I think at the very least, if we saw Lyra holding Pan more, looking at him more, even him sitting on her shoulder more, it could go a long way.

I agree, I still love the show, but they need to put a bit more work into the human-daemon connection.

Someone earlier mentioned that the movie didn't end at the same point. Was the facility the end of the movie adaptation?

And as a non-book reader, the lack of omnipresent Daemons is a massive, massive error from production.
Yes. The movie inexplicably moved around the episode that just happened, and the episode coming up.
The film has the next TV episode first (bear fight), then Lyra gets kidnapped and taken to Bolvangar. The movie then ended after Bolvangar and “off to find Asriel”.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,001
Overall I liked the episode but the end with Lyra seemed so abrupt. Like “Hey you’re leaving.” “Yup, peace out” and bam she’s gone. Like no lingering on the victory or taking a second to break. They were literally still in Bolvanger when she left.

Then having another episode end with Lyra unexpectedly getting away from her escorts seemed a bit much especially as judging by the preview:
she luckily ends up right where she was going anyway?

But Coulter and Lyra’s acting continue to carry the show. So good.
 

Complicated

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,693
Overall I liked the episode but the end with Lyra seemed so abrupt. Like “Hey you’re leaving.” “Yup, peace out” and bam she’s gone. Like no lingering on the victory or taking a second to break. They were literally still in Bolvanger when she left.

Then having another episode end with Lyra unexpectedly getting away from her escorts seemed a bit much especially as judging by the preview:
she luckily ends up right where she was going anyway?

But Coulter and Lyra’s acting continue to carry the show. So good.
It was too abrupt, but that's because they deviated from books cosmetically. In the books the kids are running out of Bolvangar and basically thinking they're going to freeze or get caught when the Gyptians show up and start the battle. So they rescue everyone and continue getting the hell out instead of taking Bolvangar and Lee takes Lyra away from the danger on the ground. Not sure why they chose to do it that way. Probably easier and cheaper to shoot on the interior Bolvangar set than having an exterior shot battle in a blizzard.
 

eebster

Member
Nov 2, 2017
437
My partner is watching this and I’m tagging along and it’s so fucking bad. Everything is so overtly dramatic and poorly acted. I feel the show introduces a bunch of ideas without making you care about any of it and just expects you to be entertained. I’ll probably finish it now as I’m kinda going along for the ride but I haven’t seen a show that annoys me this much in a while.

The writing is also incredibly poor and at times cringe-inducing.

Exactly what I feel as well. Rarely did I care so little about characters and the world like in this show. And why should I? They're throwing everything at me at warp speed without givin me room to take anything in. The pacing is absolutely terrible. And so is the acting at times
 

RatskyWatsky

Pesky Therizinosaurus
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,215
Some things do seem a tad rushed (like Lyra immediately hopping into the balloon with the bear even though the battle had only just finished), but overall I'm still thoroughly enjoying it. The newest episode was one of the best yet!

(one complaint that I do have is that the Magisterium wanting to erase sin or whatever is like "oh yeah they're supposed to be a religious order or some such" but the show hasn't talked very much about religion in this universe at all, outside of the Magisterium's "knowledge is dangerous" shtick. I think the mystery surrounding them might make more sense in the book, which I haven't read, because everything is from Lyra's perspective, but with the show the audience is aware of all sorts of things that Lyra isn't, so a little more world building and information in this area would have been nice)
 

Dmax3901

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,355
Only issue I had with this episode was that Lyra was focused on Mrs Coulter when she got out of the machine, instead of grabbing Pan and trying to ram him into her chest (aka hug intensely).
 

milamber182

Member
Dec 15, 2017
3,138
Australia
Last episode was my favorite so far.

Not sure why they included that pointless scene with Will, though. Contractual obligation to use the actors a set amount maybe? Reminds me of Gotham where they tried to shoeshorn as many characters into every episode as possible.
 

milamber182

Member
Dec 15, 2017
3,138
Australia
Unfortunately the show doesn't work well with so many daemons missing in a world full of them. Bolvanger should have had daemons everywhere in the cafeteria scene.
I imagine it would makes things too difficult for the actors and VFX team, not to mention confuse viewers who aren't too familiar with who all the animals are. I feel like the directors/producers understand the difference in mediums and chose to focus on telling the story of the scenes instead of trying to make them 100% accurate to the book.
 

RatskyWatsky

Pesky Therizinosaurus
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,215
I don't have any issue at all with how the daemons are depicted and fully understand the significance of them. They maybe could stand to show them a little more often, but that obviously isn't possible due to budget reasons. (though to save on CGI money maybe they could have had realistic looking puppets / dolls sitting on the margins here and there to beef up their omnipresence a bit.)
 

Dr Doom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,083
Look at that big boy on the balloon. So silly 😆

The Altometer was the golden compass which the movie was titled?
I haven’t seen the movie

How many more episodes left?
 

WillJoe

Member
Nov 14, 2018
1,139
UK
i love the books (start reading them again the other day) but it took me a few episodes to get into this. i just found it hard to get used to all the new faces. Dafne Keen's portrayal of Lyra has convinced me now. I am actually imagining her as Lyra when reading the books now instead of Dakota Blue Richards.

Can't wait for the next episode. Don't want to spoil what happens for anyone who hasn't read the books. Super excited for the last episode! I think at that point we will go further than the movie got. We reached that point in the last episode but there is some some stuff that was shown in the movie that we haven't seen that and that's likely what'll be in the next episode.

The one thing I really don't like is this guy playing Lee. I had never heard of him and I just can't warm to him at all.

Look at that big boy on the balloon. So silly 😆

The Altometer was the golden compass which the movie was titled?
I haven’t seen the movie

How many more episodes left?
There are 2 more episodes.

As for "The Golden Compass" title, a lot of people think the Alethiometer is what the title refers to but it's not a compass and no such Golden Compass ever appears in the trilogy. The name of the first book is actually "Northern Lights" and they are important to the book (think back to episode 1). "The Golden Compass" is just what the first book is called in the US market and of course it's the name of the movie. "The Subtle Knife" + "The Amber Spyglass" books are also named after objects that appear in the story (they are hinted at in the opening credit sequence). The trilogy was originally going to be called "The Golden Compasses" instead of "His Dark Materials".

Both "The Golden Compasses" and "His Dark Materials" are references to Paradise Lost by John Milton.

Into this wilde Abyss,
The Womb of nature and perhaps her Grave,
Of neither Sea, nor Shore, nor Air, nor Fire,
But all these in their pregnant causes mixt
Confus'dly, and which thus must ever fight,
Unless th' Almighty Maker them ordain
His dark materials to create more Worlds,
Into this wilde Abyss the warie fiend
Stood on the brink of Hell and look'd a while,
Pondering his Voyage; for no narrow frith
He had to cross.
Paradise Lost, Book 2, lines 910–920
Then staid the fervid wheels, and in his hand
He took the golden compasses, prepared
In God's eternal store, to circumscribe
This universe, and all created things
:

One foot he centered, and the other turned
Round through the vast profundity obscure
Paradise Lost, Book 7, lines 224–229
 
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Dr Doom

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,083
There are 2 more episodes.

As for "The Golden Compass" title, a lot of people think the Alethiometer is what the title refers to but it's not a compass and no such Golden Compass ever appears in the trilogy. The name of the first book is actually "Northern Lights" and they are important to the book (think back to episode 1). "The Golden Compass" is just what the first book is called in the US market and of course it's the name of the movie. "The Subtle Knife" + "The Amber Spyglass" books are also named after objects that appear in the story (they are hinted at in the opening credit sequence). The trilogy was originally going to be called "The Golden Compasses" instead of "His Dark Materials".

Both "The Golden Compasses" and "His Dark Materials" are references to Paradise Lost by John Milton.
thanks good thing I asked.
 

WillJoe

Member
Nov 14, 2018
1,139
UK
yeah "golden compass" is a compass as in a drawing compass. not a compass that detects magnetic north. this is the golden compass as it refers to (from the his dark materials wikipedia page)

 

TheNatureBoy

Member
Nov 4, 2017
2,227
Just watched the latest episode.

Lol @ Lyra being separated again from the group.

The witch pretty much took out the whole evil camp solo.

I hate anytime they allude to Lyra being 'special' and the one who is going to change everything. Especially since they have done such a poor job in really establishing the world, outside of the Gyptians. This episode did seem to shed some more light though on what Ms. Coulter was doing.

The whole "tyranny of sin" concept. I took it as The Magisterium are an overly religious group that sees dust interferring with kids once they hit puberty or something, so they are separating the daemons from the little kids so they don't experience hormones, lust, jealously, all the things that come with adulthood. They would rather have them be "free" of that, turning them into mindless slaves like that nurse lady was in the compound. I could be reaching though. Maybe Ms. Coulter is down for the cause, because she seems sorta depressed, the whole thing with cheating on her husband with Lord A, etc.

Except I'm not sure why Lord A is focused on dust, why The Magisterium seemed to be scared of him since he is in bear prison now, or how Will from our Earth plays into this.