Hollywood sex scenes decline by 40%
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Sex scenes can add a lot in the right film. The Last Picture Show (1971) is a great example of unglamorous more realistic sex scenes which fit the film.
It's not because they're listening to worries of women being exploited, that's for sure.
As more and more studios need to have tentpole "four quadrant" films for international audiences, movies that are expected to make money need to appeal to the highest possible international audience.
And most people don't have a very healthy outlook on sex or depictions thereof.
And to be sure, a move towards less depictions of sex is very much the same trend of a move towards less/ more sanitized depictions of marginalized peoples. It's not a win.
As more and more studios need to have tentpole "four quadrant" films for international audiences, movies that are expected to make money need to appeal to the highest possible international audience.
And most people don't have a very healthy outlook on sex or depictions thereof.
And to be sure, a move towards less depictions of sex is very much the same trend of a move towards less/ more sanitized depictions of marginalized peoples. It's not a win.
I realize this is only slightly related but this is a bit of an issue I've had with some of the gaming press and community. With Mass Effect Andromeda, I decided to romance Suvi (because she was Scottish initially) and was really happy with the romance which didn't include a sex scene but was adorable I found... Only to find parts of the internet she was considered a "lesser" romance, worse than others it involved no "reward" in the vein of sex compared others, like that was her only value, not the writing, the story, the character development, her Scottish accent, just whether or not you can have sex with her. I had a similar experience with Dragon Age Inquisition Josephine and it's an attitude I've when it comes to other games like The Witcher series or Baldur's Gate 3 (and that's not getting into stuff like certain fans demanding their "owned" to romance women as their reward not matter their sexuality, story or agency in the game).Bond sneaking in on Severine showring in Skyfall was so fucking weird... (and context matters, she's was a former sex worker 'rescued' by a criminal, so surely the best idea would be to sneak in on her shower)
On the flip side, and underrated IMO, was the kiss Bond and Olga shared at the end of Quantum. Bond, still hurting from Vesper, shares ONLY a brief but passionate kiss with her. They helped each other out, but part ways on the mend and not ready to commit to anything. I thought this was bold and meant way more than a lot of the random fucks he's arbitrarily had in a lot of these movies.
And no I'm not declaring these fans are all creeps (the BD3 example is honestly something I've seen more from the press then the fandom itself), but that attitude depresses me slightly because it devalues these character's stories, personalities and everything else in their romances as meaningless and unimportant which depresses me. When I romanced Sera in DAI in another playthrough, the thing I remember isn't the sex scene but the cookie scene on top of Skyhold inn or helping her with her pranking wave around the castle.
Also doesn't help I think video game sex scenes on the whole look even more weird and silly then live action movie sex scenes (even if they avoid the Underworld level belly button sex stuff).
For me it's through funny and adorable fan art and yuri comic art from women. So much of it can be so wholesome.
Doesn't the Film Small Soldiers imply that some of the toys there think like that?
View: https://youtu.be/gmYSTObayoY?feature=shared
I agree with this, especially the bolded part. We've just been trickling deeper and deeper into a flattening grayification of every aspect of life and culture devoid of confrontation and intrigue. Not surprised this thread leans toward a want to push sex into the closet, into nothingness. God forbid there's an ounce of uncomfortableness anywhere.
So. Let's rewind:
Person 1: "Americans love violence and fear sex. It's depressing."
Person 2: "How easy for MEN to say"
Person 3 (agreeing w/Person 2): "I find it so amusing how men say this and drive by with "prude!" I know this forum is majority male, but still!"
Now, let's have a pause here, and point out that Person 1 is absolutely correct. This was well-covered in This Film is Not Yet Rated, which I'd recommend to anybody.
Okay, resuming, I say:
Me: lmao at the idea that American women have no desire for sex in fiction. (Example of my wife's Romantasy addiction)
Pausing again: Up to this point we're just talking about the established fact that yes, American censorship comes down hard on sexual content and no, it's not just men being weird pointing this out -- it's correct. And no, it's not just men (especially not just straight men) who are interested in this content. Besides the fun example of my wife enjoying Romantasy novels there's the sad example from This Film is Not Yet Rated about how gay sexual content gets absolutely squashed by the MPAA during the ratings/censorship process. Also, don't you dare show female orgasms!
Anyway, finally here comes you: "Romantasy novels are good and by and for women, tho!"
OK, like, yeah I know? I'm pro those-novels, I'm the one who brought them up. Let's engage with the whole topic tho? Why is all this context missing? Is it because we aren't on reddit and able to see threaded responses as easily? Why are you and others reacting to the person who made the point about American censorship standards this way?
Poor Things is literally streaming now.
I really don't see this kind of decline. 40% means it's gone down — not that it's absent.
That said I can believe turning more stuff into PG 13 stuff for greater audiences (it is known that PG films tend to have a higher return than R stuff) is the main drive for less explicit content on screen. But I really don't think we've seen movies lose their "bite" either; you just gotta be watching the right stuff.
This is such a self report that you don't watch enough movies. Especially if the premise that Hollywood sex scenes even BOTHER to portray it as an awkward or non perfect thing.
This is believable, there seem to be a lot less R rated movies for mainstream releases.
My view on sex in movies is the same as it is on violence in movies, bad language in movies, etc. Does it need to be in every film? No. Is it always important or additive to the plot? No. Can it still enrich a scene and make a movie better for its inclusion? Definitely.
Movies are intended for different audiences which is why ratings and rating descriptions exist. If you don't want to watch sex scenes with your family, totally fair, then just don't watch those movies with your family. Watch something else.
I think it's important to allow yourself you be taken into the hands of the filmmakers when you're watching a movie. You're watching something they have created and everything in it has some kind of meaning to them. They shouldn't be worrying about a viewer who is uncomfortable watching sex scenes. The movie is not for them in that case and that's fine.
Movies are intended for different audiences which is why ratings and rating descriptions exist. If you don't want to watch sex scenes with your family, totally fair, then just don't watch those movies with your family. Watch something else.
I think it's important to allow yourself you be taken into the hands of the filmmakers when you're watching a movie. You're watching something they have created and everything in it has some kind of meaning to them. They shouldn't be worrying about a viewer who is uncomfortable watching sex scenes. The movie is not for them in that case and that's fine.
I think this is mostly it, tbh, along with some modern culture stuff not being for it, but mostly the money factor.
Sometimes I watch R rated movies from the 90s, and it mainly amounts to one sex scene and a couple uses of f***. Feels like a gigantic waste of potential money to force your movie into that category for those reasons.
I'm not against the scenes at all like others in this thread, but it does feel like a waste sometimes if studios are trying to maximize revenue and literally 10-15 seconds of runtime hurts that so significantly.
So there's a greater context at play here in regards to this forum's discussion of sex that was the impetus for my reply in the exchange above. Too often I've witnessed threads like this where multiple women are sharing their uncomfortableness with something regarding sexual depictions of women or sexual acts against women in society, and every few posts in between the discussion, a male poster chimes in with a "bunch of prudes here, amirite?" drive-by right in the middle of the discussion. Heck, just a couple weeks ago we had a thread about the rise of nonconsensual choking of girls during teenage sex that was likewise met with more than a few "wow, society has gotten so prudish about kinks" from male posters right in the midst of several women posting about their own traumatizing experiences.
My post was one born of frustration at how often I see men dismissing sex topics without any sort of nuance or connection to the greater context of what's actually being discussed.
I don't really care about the singular point of whether America is more prudish or not in regards to sex compared to other countries. I'm just annoyed by witnessing a common dynamic play out again that I keep seeing in threads of this nature.
Because we are women who are used to men using the term prude in male centric spaces to shut down any legitimate criticism of the hyper sexualization and sexual exploitation of women, particularly if it can be done in the guise of "Americans are such prudes!" This isn't the first time we've had these conversations, and we find it's pretty telling that so many (once again usually male) posters decide to engage in the topic solely by denouncing "prudes" instead of trying to understand why certain people (particularly LGBT and women) might have a different opinion about the presence of sex in film. It's incredibly frustrating to have so many posters blithely reduce that topic to just that. (It's also an easier way to bypass the stricter moderation of this forum as they don't have to dismiss the criticisms head on.) That's the context that you are missing, and the frustration you were adding to by seemingly dismissing the concerns of woman posters by bringing up that your wife likes sex in a completely different medium and genre.
If your point was that women like sex when it's not one sided and exploiting them and how that's not equivalent to what we see in American film, I apologize. It wasn't clear to me. It honestly sounded more like an easy way to shut down Dice and any introspection as to why certain groups of people might not rejoice at the type of sex scenes that have historically existed in Hollywood and other cinema.
Yes thank you. This is an even more frustrating example of the same phenomenon. We literally had women in that thread talk about being traumatized by a partner choking them without their consent, and on the same page dudes were straight up laughing and calling people (really women, as they were the ones the topic framed as complaining) prudes for being scared of and worried about this trend.
Let me repost this:
That highlights my point about how damaging in can be for young people to receive sex education nearly 100% through porn.
I'm happy to have missed that thread.
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A little bit of this, a little bit of that. Some studios that had some bite once upon a time have completely lost it (Disney being the prime example, just look at Wish). Even within their PG paradigm, its been getting safer and safer, with few exceptions.
And your example is Disney? Where the villain often falls to their death?
Sorry Im confused about your point. Not every studio/director can create banger after banger. I'm sure we'll see another renaissance in DIsney after they reassess but I don't see what them being soft has anything to do with sex in movies. o_O They've always been a staunch family brand regardless of the times.
We need movies to fade to black just before action violent scenes, implied violence is enough.
Bite is more than just character deaths. Disney had the right set up to tell a story that says something (King grants wishes, he believes its too powerful for anyone but him to wield, main character stands against this), but instead of diving deeper into how power corrupts in a real way, the king gets mind controlled by evil magic, gets green eyes, and all agency is taken away. The movie is suddenly about nothing.
This is the kind of bite that Disney is losing imo.
And just to clarify, I believe that the kind of thinking that has Disney too afraid to make their movies about something is the same thinking thats pushing less and less sex. The more mass market, the better.
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Now that I'm reading romance novels (my wife and I swap books), yeah, prose has the best sex scenes. And not just in terms of how arousing they are, but like, they add to the book, the characters, the themes, etc.
Cool World is a solid example in film, but also, a LOT of European films are able to make sex scenes work. Why American films have a harder time has a lot to do with who is behind the camera (and writing). Most Romcoms and even regular romantic movies these days feel so... Dead.
Just like adding more diversity in front of the camera, studios would make a shit ton of money if they can grab the magic from those romance novels, and place them on screen.
Cool World is a solid example in film, but also, a LOT of European films are able to make sex scenes work. Why American films have a harder time has a lot to do with who is behind the camera (and writing). Most Romcoms and even regular romantic movies these days feel so... Dead.
Just like adding more diversity in front of the camera, studios would make a shit ton of money if they can grab the magic from those romance novels, and place them on screen.
Good. I can honestly say a majority of the time sex scenes are pointless. They don't enhance the plot, characters etc. and they aren't filmed in very creative ways.
The last "sex scene" I was actually wowed by was Blade Runner 2049 and I don't think that even had nudity in it.
The last "sex scene" I was actually wowed by was Blade Runner 2049 and I don't think that even had nudity in it.
People here really need to watch Beau is Afraid
Btw, I noticed it's a pattern with Joaquin Phoenix. I'm scared of Joker 2 The Musical
Some action movies may be better for it. I don't need a 30 minute no cut action sequence. It starts to become spectacle for spectacles sake.
Like the problem isn't sex or violence, it's it being done poorly.
Well, spectacle is the point of most action in movies tbh. Sex isnt equivalent to violence in the medium.
Oppenheimer had a really good and relevant one.
Right. I have no idea why people in this thread are trying to frame this as some egalitarian judgment on the part of viewers. I think the way people "consume content" has much more to do with general public's dislike of sex scenes than their regard for the workplace safety of actresses. Anything in a movie that doesn't move from plot point to plot point is regarded as superfluous. And as American audiences become even more literal as time goes by something like a sex scene is going to inherently be seen as that unless a character looks directly into the camera and says "this sex scene symbolically represents X."
Article partly blames the rise of intimacy coordinators, so if that's true then this is in part a consequence of directors not being able to exploit their actors.
Edit: Can't help but side eye the "puritanical left/gen z" and "metoo overcorrection" type comments, especially as I remember stories like Marina Sirtis being exploited on the set of Death Wish 3. Maybe there's some puritanical influences somewhere, but I don't see much, if any, nuance in those posts.
Edit: Can't help but side eye the "puritanical left/gen z" and "metoo overcorrection" type comments, especially as I remember stories like Marina Sirtis being exploited on the set of Death Wish 3. Maybe there's some puritanical influences somewhere, but I don't see much, if any, nuance in those posts.
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Not calling anyone a prude, I'm just saying that less sex scenes being filmed is not at equivalent too any sort of higher equality or sensibility to minority voices. It's much more in favor of the actual prudes.
It is simply and purely a business strategy to get the broadest possible audience by reducing any element that executives believe will turn these desired audiences away. And in this mindset, sanitizing sex out of movies is in the same trend that sanitizes minorities' perspectives.
I'm more willing to bet that this is connected to Hollywood is slowly but surely trying to pander to a growing conservative audience, what with the success of shows like The Chosen.
In short, the behind-the-scenes process is undeniably problematic, but this trend is no solution to anything. It's a sign that the problem is growing.
It is simply and purely a business strategy to get the broadest possible audience by reducing any element that executives believe will turn these desired audiences away. And in this mindset, sanitizing sex out of movies is in the same trend that sanitizes minorities' perspectives.
I'm more willing to bet that this is connected to Hollywood is slowly but surely trying to pander to a growing conservative audience, what with the success of shows like The Chosen.
In short, the behind-the-scenes process is undeniably problematic, but this trend is no solution to anything. It's a sign that the problem is growing.
Very much evidence for the "Why are gaming forums so male dominated" thread.
Exhibit #230983: Someone unironically posted an article wherein intimacy coordinators are partially blamed for less sex scenes in Hollywood and when the various concerns were brought up concerning the context of sex scenes in Hollywood movies those posts got largely ignored while a bunch of dudes called people prudes over and over again.
Now this is just a ridiculous take jesus christ. ESPECIALLY given the context of Hollywood sex scenes and how often they featured the most white heteronormative framing possible. Movies having things other than two people pretending to bone in them does not in any way shape or form equate to a lack of minority perspective.
I didn't say that it equates.
I said less sex scenes point toward a general sanitization, and that sanitization involves a wider array of topics and themes that are "risky". This isn't going to lead to more depictions of sex for women by women, or queer folks.
Trying to claim this is a victory against white heteronormativeness in media is delusional. It's completely aligned with the status quo.
i think this is a good perspective. as movies move ever further away from being art and becoming "product" we will see less stuff like minority voices/human intimacy/etc because of the intent for going towards "mass appeal." Conservatives never really liked sex in movies, and i suppose others are now "finding a way" to dislike it.
Yeah, I can't see this as a bad thing. Nothing against the idea of sex scenes in general, but the more I learned about the goings on behind the scenes the less comfortable I felt with nudity and sex in films in general. If the number is going down, it's hopefully because more actors are willing to say no to doing what they aren't comfortable with.
I sure do "enjoy" when male posters scoff at women dismaying over the weaponization of female sexuality to shut down our own critiques of sex in media as prudish and misogynistic because women love sex too.
User Banned (duration pending): dismissing concerns of misogynistic practices raised by members, continued dismissive commentary.
oh no lol
aaaaa
Kangaroo keeps ignoring me! But I'll keep quoting
Again, the problem is when women are pressured into these roles for fame. Few actors actually enjoy filming these scenes, and the need for intimacy coordinators are very important. It also doesn't exist in a vacuum where women are frequently sexually harassed both on and off screen, and now we live with deepfake porn that 99% targets women.
Yes women like sex, but with how heteronormative a LOT of on-screen sex tends to be, it's not as often women or other minorities getting pleasure from it but straight men.
Women like sex, but the playing field is FAR from fair of how men and women's sexuality is treated.
Right so from the production aspect sure. We should 100% make sure that scenes are filmed in a safe and responsible way. Absolutely.
I just mean from a viewing perspective, I literally told my girlfriend about this study and she said "that sucks" lol. So I'll continue to believe real life women over internet brownie point seekers.
Sex rules and it rules as a part of art. I'll never side with people wanting to scrub it out of art. But again, this is exclusively an American thing. Every other country is a lot more open to representations of sexuality.
What a reprehensible smear against the women in this thread, holy shit.
To think that you started attacking women here calling us misogynistic for voicing criticism you don't like and then this is how you act.
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"I'm going to only believe the woman who agrees with me and deride all others as 'internet brownie point seekers' and 'not real'" isn't the feminist flex you think it is. Jesus christ.
I agreed with every post pertaining to ensuring scenes have an intimacy coordinator. I also agree with having better equity and diversity in terms of how so many scenes are done for the male gaze.
There should be more male nudity and sex scenes that are designed and made to appeal to women more.
I'm just speaking against the blanket anti-sex posts in the thread, which come across as performative. It would be like not wanting movies to feature violence of any kind because many forms of violence are problematic.
I'm just a woman who misses people humping in movies. I don't want anyone to be treated poorly, but…yeah, I miss horny movies.
I laughed when I noticed in the vfx breakdown that they gave him giant CGI balls. Poor Beau