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Skittles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,280
If they cancel it they literally lose everything they've invested in the title. If they release and it sells some copies even if it still makes a loss that's preferable to getting nothing whatsoever back.

Also, the work involved in making the game will be invaluable on any titles going forward. This is their first experience of GaaS so even if it fails the information gained will be a huge benefit for them.
The thing is, will the revenue generated by releasing it outweigh the continued dev time to release it? It's been over a year and a half since fortnite exploded, so that's quite a bit of money. And it sounds like there won't even be an admission price to play this game. And with the BR market approaching saturation, will they even be able to grab enough users? Just seems like they could have cancelled this and been a decent way through to a different project.
 

SapientWolf

Member
Nov 6, 2017
6,565
Enter the Gungeon is an outlier, though. I'm so proud of what my friends there have accomplished, but it is absolutely an exception and a game that really sells itself with its SUPER compelling art style. There's a reason I own all the limited edition Gungeon plushies; those bullets are so damn cute. Not many people can make games that feel so good.

It was also made by a super small team, sold at a great price, and released on Switch and received constant support. Plus it's got that "just one more" vibe that Nex Machina lacks.

I love both games, but like... there's a lot going on that makes Gungeon work that Nex Machina isn't doing because it's a very different game, and even then, Gungeon was still a massive outlier. Most twin-sticks aren't outliers like that.



lol

they ~used~ to.

But Sony doesn't support indie games as much now as they used to. I know because unlike you, I've actually shipped a game, I've actually sat down with these publishers and talked to them, I know how easy or hard it is to get on every console out there. Nex Machina might be the best twin-stick shooter I've ever played, but ultimately didn't get the support it needed by the time it launched, and Sony ~now~ is not going to be supportive of that kind of game. Their indie support has largely dried up because the people who pushed for indie support are at other studios now.

I got facts, you're the one holding a console warrior grudge.
Any million plus selling indie game is an outlier. It requires a huge amount of luck even for games of exceptional quality. But arcade shmups are clearly not dead, and neither are indie game sales on any of the major platforms. The numbers speak for themselves.

Making a Battle Royale game clearly isn't a gauranteed recipe for success either, even though the genre is probably at peak popularity. I can't think of many devs that have achieved long term success by chasing trends instead of sticking to their core competencies.
 

Lan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
292
Armchair developer here. They should have leaned into what they do best and incorporated elements that are popular today and keep people playing (loot, BR, etc).
 

Deleted member 37151

Account closed at user request
Banned
Jan 1, 2018
2,038
They massively missed the Switch. Games like theirs do fairly well there. They should kickstart Nex Machina Switch edition. Test the waters.

Sony gave them great support but the PS4 just isn't an indie friendly platform. I think it might be the lack of portability or that it's best and most famous games are story driven.
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
God this sucks. I'm going to get it just to show support but honestly they should've just stuck with their niche. They had a couple commercial failures but I think those games just came out at the wrong time. I'm not excited for hell divers in the least as I really don't like br games. Not to mention it doesn't even look appealing :(
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
They massively missed the Switch. Games like theirs do fairly well there. They should kickstart Nex Machina Switch edition. Test the waters.

Sony gave them great support but the PS4 just isn't an indie friendly platform. I think it might be the lack of portability or that it's best and most famous games are story driven.

This is what I would do if I were them. Develop for the Switch.
 

Bunkles

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,663
Armchair developer here. They should have leaned into what they do best and incorporated elements that are popular today and keep people playing (loot, BR, etc).

Yup and released their games on Switch, Steam and mobile.

Instead of that they... toss everything out the window and try to compete with Fortnite and the rest. Huh...
 

Qudi

Member
Jul 26, 2018
5,330
Nex Machina was such a twin stick shooter masterpiece. I wonder why they didnt go for twin stick shooter with loot, progression and rogue-like mechanic ála Dead Cells or a BR twin stick game.
 

Deleted member 37151

Account closed at user request
Banned
Jan 1, 2018
2,038
they should release their games where indie games actually sell, steam and switch

Indie games DO sell on PS4 and Xbox. I was wrong when I called PS4 unfriendly to indies. They just need to be a different sort of game.

PS4 and Xbox I think lend themselves to more involved, longer play sessions. Not quick, one more go gameplay. I often have a quick few games of Tetris 99 or a few goes of Ikaruga in bed at night. Not sure I'd do the same on a PS4.
 

klastical

Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,717
Why would Resogun 2 succeed now as a PS4-only title? The first game was popular because it was given away with PS+ at a time when there was quite literally nothing much of value to play on the PS4. If Nex didn't succeed, Resogun isn't going to either.

Nex was a fundamentally different game. Resogun is easy to look at and understand exactally how to play it. I've played dozens of hours of resogun and bought the season pass. I played through nex once and have no interest in playing it again.

Also resogun has massive name recognition. A ton of people have played resogun and would be more inclined to play its sequel than something they've never heard of.
 

Deleted member 5159

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,704
Indie games DO sell on PS4 and Xbox. I was wrong when I called PS4 unfriendly to indies. They just need to be a different sort of game.

PS4 and Xbox I think lend themselves to more involved, longer play sessions. Not quick, one more go gameplay. I often have a quick few games of Tetris 99 or a few goes of Ikaruga in bed at night. Not sure I'd do the same on a PS4.

never met a ps4 owner who bought indie games. they just play the ones that come with ps+. It's anedoctal evidence, of course, but it fits with the reports of most indie games selling better on switch and steam than on the ps4/xbo combo, as those platforms are more geared towards triple A games , high fidelity visuals and whatnot
 

P-MAC

Member
Nov 15, 2017
4,485
Is there any contract with Sony that means they couldn't port their arcade games to Switch? I feel like that would do pretty well with the way Switch owners snap up smaller games and twin stick shooters etc - maybe even better than this

EDIT: apparently this had sorta already been discussed, sorry
 

MrS

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,085
The biggest mistake they made, imho, was self-publishing Nex Machina when their staff was ill-equipped to promote such an astounding game. Why they never teamed with Devolver, or a Devolver-like company, who are able to get eyes on indie games will forever baffle me.
 

Deleted member 50969

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 17, 2018
892
I still hold the belief that they should've delved into different genres and platforms after their success with Resogun.
 

Ausroachman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,397
When I first heard the name Stormdivers I assumed they were doing a helldivers like game that combined the twin stick shooting skills with coop/ multi.

I was very disappointed when they announced another battle royale . Best of luck to them , though it's not a good sign if even your devs don't believe in the product .
 

Kamaros

Member
Aug 29, 2018
2,315
It boogles my mind why they did not make it in their style - top down, fast paced.

You know the saying... play to your strenghts, right?
 

xChildofhatex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,223
I just hope they don't shut down. Their past few releases have been commercial flops (afaik), so I hope that they can find a good publisher to fund them. They're one of my favorite devs so I was kinda sad to see them chasing the BR trend, but I guess since their arcade stuff wasn't setting the charts on fire, I can't really blame them.
 

Delusibeta

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,648
Frankly, Stormdivers looked like a non-starter from the initial teaser, and nothing since has convinced me that it won't fall flat on its face.

As for the wider battle royale genre, historically in other trending genres such as MMOs and MOBAs, it usually settles down to a Big Two and everyone else fighting over crumbs. Right now, I think Fortnite has secured its seat as one half of battle royale's Big Two, and Apex Legends, PUBG and Black Ops 4 is fighting over the other seat. Frankly, making a battle royale game was a poor idea in 2017, it's outright nonsensical now.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Frankly, Stormdivers looked like a non-starter from the initial teaser, and nothing since has convinced me that it won't fall flat on its face.

As for the wider battle royale genre, historically in other trending genres such as MMOs and MOBAs, it usually settles down to a Big Two and everyone else fighting over crumbs. Right now, I think Fortnite has secured its seat as one half of battle royale's Big Two, and Apex Legends, PUBG and Black Ops 4 is fighting over the other seat. Frankly, making a battle royale game was a poor idea in 2017, it's outright nonsensical now.
Housemarque doesn't have the resources to compete with games like Fortnite, PUBG, or COD. They are going from being the biggest, flashiest fish in the pond (indie arcade style games) to the smallest, dinkiest fish in the ocean (battle royale games). Bad idea
 

Honome

Member
Jan 10, 2018
1,084
Rio de Janeiro
Shit, they should just keep making games like Resogun, Alienation and Nex Machina for ALL PLATAFORMS, that would probably made them sell more and keep the studio alive and producing... This battle royale game will probably end up killing themselves.

Too bad because i always loved and own all of their arcade games. I surely will miss a Resogun 2. : (
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,940
Is there any contract with Sony that means they couldn't port their arcade games to Switch? I feel like that would do pretty well with the way Switch owners snap up smaller games and twin stick shooters etc - maybe even better than this

EDIT: apparently this had sorta already been discussed, sorry
Sony owns the IPs. Resogun, Dead Nation, Alienation and even Super Stardust, which is odd since Housemarque made the original Stardust and Super Stardust on Amiga in the 1990s long before partnering with Sony.

They could certainly port Nex Machina to Switch though and they probably should have a year or two ago. Things might look different for them now if they had.
 

Agent 47

Banned
Jun 24, 2018
1,840
What they really should have done instead of copying current market trends is taken all the experience from the smaller arcade style games and applied it to a larger AA / AAA game with arcadey gameplay and mechanics. Here's hoping this is what the secret project they're working on is.
 

LightKiosk

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,479
I've seen gameplay here and honestly, it just doesn't look good at all. The battle royale market is saturated with some well polished games, both paid and F2P, so to come in with a quite amateur looking BR title... not sure what else was to be expected.
 

Laser Man

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,683
That model wasn't sustainable. They may not find success with this, but they weren't finding it with that either.

They've been around since 95, that is a long time in this business and you don't try your hand on a service battle royale game out of desperation for money... so I have to assume they did it to try and get a piece of the cake more than anything else!
 

Agent 47

Banned
Jun 24, 2018
1,840
I've seen gameplay here and honestly, it just doesn't look good at all. The battle royale market is saturated with some well polished games, both paid and F2P, so to come in with a quite amateur looking BR title... not sure what else was to be expected.
Yeh it just looks like they've made a pretty bad game, nothing to do with market over saturation or being late to the party.
 

KBadOne

Member
Oct 28, 2017
726
I was disappointed when I heard they are done making arcade games. I bought every single game they put out, and each one is a gem! Wish Sony buys them out and start making Arcade shooters again! I have zero interest in battle Royale games and storm divers is no exemption...
 

ColonelForbin

Member
Oct 28, 2017
601
This sucks. I knew it was a mistake the minute I saw their reveal trailer. I couldn't believe they were attempting this. Seriously one of my favorite developers. My wife and I have had hours and hours of fun playing their coop games.
 

Bradbatross

Member
Mar 17, 2018
14,243
Yes but in this case it really is just a bunch of programmers, nothing more. No IP that can be used in future or ported and not really any groundbreaking games (IMHO). The value is not that good.
But they have talent and potential, as evidenced by their previous games. They 're also around the size that MS seems to be looking for.
 

Hyun Sai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,562
They had the chance to make a real good Diablo like with Alienation, but stupid design decisions killed it. That was their biggest missed opportunity, game was a blast to play and could have been popular with proper support.
 

Deleted member 6730

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,526
I don't know what the hell they were thinking. I get that their games don't sell particularly strong but a small team chasing Fortnite (or any trend for that matter) was always going to be a bad idea.
 

mumblec

Member
Sep 29, 2018
10
https://imgur.com/a/cdDNR3o

The statements add up with what I've been seeing in their discord (Singen, the dev in the screenshot, is currently saying that the interview is a lie, but isn't saying why), mostly that HMQ were going to leave the arcade genre even if Nex sold well. The game is OK, don't think I'll pick it up at all, pretty much everyone I've showed it to thinks that it looks bad, including a lot of Housemarque fans. The interview is also the first time I have seen an HMQ have not have an unusally high amount of optimism for this game, he seems pretty level headed, hopefully their AAA project goes well, but I don't think they will survive the next gen.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,521
Never even heard of Stormdivers. Just watched a few minutes if gameplay, it looks crap. It's going to flop, hard in this already too crowded Battle Royale riddled world.

Dead Nation
Alienation
Resogun
Nex Machina

These are all amazing games, I still have them all installed on my PS4. They would all play brilliantly on switch, I'd buy them all again. Stormdivers, looks to be a real misstep.