I mean, we were always getting Biden. The data has always leaned that way. I can respect and even agree with wanting otherwise (Warren for me). But Ive always maintained that it wasn't going to happen. It was always going to be Biden.
How Joe Biden attracts both black voters and racially ‘resentful’ voters
- Thread starter shinra-bansho
- Start date
I mean, we were always getting Biden. The data has always leaned that way. I can respect and even agree with wanting otherwise (Warren for me). But Ive always maintained that it wasn't going to happen. It was always going to be Biden.
I don't agree with it, but my understanding is that it's a combination of general wariness of more partisan candidates being unelectable, and skepticism toward "big promises" after so many of the earlier civil rights pushes have hit brick walls. They're more likely to support candidates they think have the best chance of holding on to the lifelines that are already there, as they both had skin in the game of achieving those victories and have more to lose if a gamble on a more Progressive candidate doesn't pay off.
It's relevant because you reiterated the point about his age after quoting my post where I already argue against "because Obama."
I mean that's kind of a big caveat with black voters. That kind of informs their views on at least a few other specific issues (lgbt, abortion related).
And in 2017 only 28% of black voters would describe themselves as "liberal."
Add that in on top of Biden's opponents rushing to embrace the very unpopular positions among minorities of abolishing ICE, decriminalization, and banning private insurance and it shouldnt be any wonder why black voters back him.
What other moderate would be topping him then? You are arguing that someone else would be able to make the moderate appeal better than him in spite of his own individual positives with the most relevant parts of the electorate. Even going with the "he would be unknown if not for Obama narrative" he would still be better known and better qualified than any other moderate.
I'll ask you to provide the better moderate candidate as well. You are ignoring the reality that the electorate largely moderate to conservative and that his current stances would have the same appeal without Obama. Folks says they really, really hate banning private insurance and decriminalization and yet they wouldnt give Biden a look on top of the other built in identity favorables he has? Exactly on what grounds?
I read what you said which is why I'm stating policies alone should stop you from making that argument in the first place. And you're telling on yourself by insisting Bernie is nothing like either of them. Age, insisting the media is against them, pushing conspiracies theories, attacking amazon, attacking the Washington Post, attacking the TPP. Doesnt scream "nothing like Trump."
It's really troubling that this suggests the easiest way to beat Joe Biden is to lie about him being a handsy creep and that even despite how much so many problems can be cited back to the leadership decisions of the wealthy that we aren't all that interested in taxing the rich more.
Considering the 2nd choice polls a few months ago this explains a lot why Bernie voters are more likely to vote for Biden while Warren voters are more likely to vote for Bernie despite the differences between Bernie and Warren on a ideological level are almost the same unlike Biden who is far removed from both of them.
Our sex organs and gender preferences matter too much in politics.
Considering the 2nd choice polls a few months ago this explains a lot why Bernie voters are more likely to vote for Biden while Warren voters are more likely to vote for Bernie despite the differences between Bernie and Warren on a ideological level are almost the same unlike Biden who is far removed from both of them.
Our sex organs and gender preferences matter too much in politics.
My family likes Klobuchar. Warming to Warren.
Despite what this forum would like you to believe, Biden is one of the few politicians I genuinely believe is a good person. I think he'd make a good president. Not anywhere close to my first choice, but he's not the devil y'all would like us to believe.
It's weird, my mom who isn't on team Biden, wants him to drop out not because he's old or racist, but she feels losing his son left him shallow and without the fight.
Despite what this forum would like you to believe, Biden is one of the few politicians I genuinely believe is a good person. I think he'd make a good president. Not anywhere close to my first choice, but he's not the devil y'all would like us to believe.
It's weird, my mom who isn't on team Biden, wants him to drop out not because he's old or racist, but she feels losing his son left him shallow and without the fight.
There are specific issues that are defining in this election that are a turn off to black voters. Its not just skepticism or electability, or Obama. Outside of elections Black voters are capable of seeing the differences and are repeatedly showing they prefer a more moderate agenda when asked specifically.
You're really overstating how much the average voter follows ideology of candidates (this goes for all candidates, btw). I have literally seen polls where the number one reason people say they are looking to Biden is because of the Obama connection. Obama has a 90+% approval among dems. It's not rocket science.
The Democrats got 65% of the black vote pre-Civil Rights. Post-Civil rights they got 90%.
Who exactly do you think those 25% were that previously voted GOP?
He wouldn't do it because a) norms against a Pres doing it directly b) he already backed Hillary over him in 2016 (it turns out, for good reason.)
How old are you? Younger black voters don't skew biden in the same way
Wow you really doubled down on this. You're not saying anything insightful here in trying to paint Biden the same as Donald Trump.
It's disappointing that the author does not cite his study in the article (I know it's the same person). Taking a more in depth look at methodology would be interesting. Oftentimes surveys like this tell you as much about the survey as the results themselves.
OP
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His age is not something viewed favorably... Polling shows no one actually wants a 77 year old President.
Name another moderate? Hickenlooper, Bullock, Klobuchar. Without being Vice President, Biden would be just another Senator.
It's bizarre you think he doesn't owe his current standing to being given a role in the Obama administration, not just with Black voters, with voters in general.
are you guys from minnesota?
because i can't imagine anyone outside of here cares about her
which really sucks cause she's great
You are overstating the degree of hostility to Progressive ideals. While it's true that Medicare for All is less favorable when abolishing private insurance is included with it, these polls have not, from what I've seen, actually measured the relative strength of the unfavorability, or the degree to which it would actually effect voting.
This thread and the article will be one of those things used to talk at or about black people instead of too them. Sigh...Just the way america works, you can find libraries full of conversations with bigots in america. But unless you know the people doing the work you won't hear what margalized people are doing or saying.
Folks tripping over themselves to try to paint him as trump and I'm not cool with the language lately that kind of implies black voters don't know any better or some shit. Posters could stand to educate themselves and stop jumping to the first easy generalization that you can latch on, which is typical for many here. Black folks aren't children or ignorant and the constant narrative of them going for Biden solely because of Obama isn't a good look around here. Yes, it's a factor but for many voters I'm but it isn't the only one. Many here can't help but be reductive on every topic though.
Why I find a lot of people phony in general. Many just want us to fall in line one way or the other imo.
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I read that title as Biden "attacks" black voters and I was like oh boy what's my boy Biden done this time.
after donald trump got elected, im not baffled by much anymore
i dunno if that is even something to be baffled over, but if it is, then i still wouldn't be baffled. if that makes any sense
Even worse than Biden's body falling apart or his lack of policy is the apparent fact that he has no interest in educating himself on perhaps the most important issue of our time (the climate change debate was a disaster for him), and there's no reason to believe he'd delegate someone appropriate to the task, either. And to bring up infirmity again, I'm deeply and legitimately scared of this shambling husk going against Trump.
They have, actually. Among all voters Single Payer (41%) is less popular than repealing the ACA (44%) while the Public Option (70%) has overwhelming support.. Among nonwhite ones (likely not a large enough sample for Hispanic/black voter subgroups) support for the ACA repeal drops to 38%, while Single Payer goes up to 46%, but the gap between Single Payer and the Public Option actually rises because the Public Option goes up to 78% support. http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/NPR_PBS-NewsHour_Marist-Poll_USA-NOS-and-Tables_1907190926.pdf#page=15
Virginia!
Someone in Poli-Era mentioned that Rachel Maddow gasses her up and my mom loves Rachel. Otherwise I have no idea why she's my mom's favorite, but I generally like her too as an Illinois resident.
literally the only reason biden is still in the race is because of his ties to obama and whatever political access that got him, trying to juelz away black voters liking him because of that is weird move.
without that he wouldve gaffed himself into oblivion by now
without that he wouldve gaffed himself into oblivion by now
Because people like to hear themselves repeat it as if saying that having name recognition from being VP is some big revelation. It's a factor, sure, it's not the only one. It's not specific to black people either. Some older white folk probably lean toward him for similar reasons. That said, I'm sure many black voters have other thoughts and opinions than "I want him because he was Obama's guy."
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favorable as in an issue/policy favoring the candidate
not the voter favoring the candidate
if a voter really responds to the issue/policy of abortion or deportation, and they respond favorably to a certain candidate's stance on that issue (real or perceived), is what i mean
a "more likely to vote for" metric at the end of the day is a form of favorability
Since you're already prognosticating, share some lotto numbers so we'll be well off before it happens.
Covered above. It is a type of favor between an issue/policy and the candidate.
Yes, it literally does. They have enough awareness to know that that candidate has a particular kinship with that issue/policy.
Whether or not it's true, it's still an awareness.
No, they are saying black voters are socially conservative in the south because that's generally a true statement.
Sounds like a title from a national review article.
Edit: I wasn't wrong, it is. And a Rasmussen op-Ed on the matter was also the 2nd result.
"Are Democrats Sure Biden Is Different Enough from Hillary Clinton?"
It's always funny how the left ends up regurgitating right-wing talking points come election season. Biden isn't my first choice by any means, but tripping over yourselves to make these parallels is just silly. According to this topic, he's another trump and another Hillary rolled into one that black people will vote for like the lemmings they are because of Obama apparently. I jest, but I don't see how he could lose with those odds.
Preach, I can already see which way the wind is blowing.
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*White people voted for Trump despite voting for the GOP for 5 decades*
White progressives: It's the Democrats fault they should have reached out to white people
*White progressives' candidate fails to win over black voters in the Dem primary*
White progressive: It's those darkies' fault!
White moderates aren't the only group racially resentful. When will white progressives look in the front mirror?
White progressives: It's the Democrats fault they should have reached out to white people
*White progressives' candidate fails to win over black voters in the Dem primary*
White progressive: It's those darkies' fault!
White moderates aren't the only group racially resentful. When will white progressives look in the front mirror?
In two of the last three competitive Dem primaries black voters were the last group to move over to the eventual winner. It didn't happen in 2016- they stayed pat, but in both 2008 and 2004 they eventually shifted and helped push the eventual winner over the top.
If your only experience in a primary was 2016 and you were to extrapolate from that one data point the idea black voters in the US don't shift ever, you would be very much in the wrong.
If your only experience in a primary was 2016 and you were to extrapolate from that one data point the idea black voters in the US don't shift ever, you would be very much in the wrong.
Thank you for this post. It does make sense, for the 75% of black voters who are socially progressive (as opposed to the 25% seemingly religiously conservative ones indicated by Kirblar, who it does make sense they'd be against abolishing ICE and against LGBTQ rights and abortion), to go for a Biden-type if they think white people will support them more.
So it, once again, comes back to white voters not being trustworthy enough to make the right damn choices. Not surprising, but enlightening.
I don't see how it's racist to be anxious that the collective desire to oust Trump is virtually the sole thing propping up this human scarecrow of a candidate. I'm not required to veer hard into racial resentment when I say I legitimately have a hard time seeing what anyone might see in him as an individual. People have different politics and racializing that isn't a foregone conclusion.
Edit: Also this seems highly probable to me. The audience for (or the people who stand to benefit most from) Biden's centrism seems, on the face of it, to be politically gormless whites.
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Because only black people, despite being only 17% of the population and will most likely back any Democratic nomination winner, are the ones receiving the blunt of this anger.
Where is the anger for the racist white Biden supporters? Or for the sexist Sander supporters? Or white Sanders supporters who'll throw a hissy fit if Biden wins? Or vice versa with white Biden voters?
Fair enough. I'm just here to try to dunk on Joe because I do believe he's as bad of a candidate as everyone says. I don't see the black electorate as responsible for that, though, so much as the Democratic Party (or privileged whites) simply believing that positioning themselves as the lesser evil in the upcoming election will do all of their political work for them. If anything I expect black voters to be ruthlessly pragmatic for wholly justified reasons, which would again place the blame on white voters.
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People gonna say electability and pragmatism but it ain't. It's falling for the same bs we been falling for for decades. Older black folks vote more and as a whole not very progressive on much.
i am 1st gen immigrant in Canada and what I noticed about most immigrant families and visible minorities is that we like a sure-win Liberal winner to defeat the Conservative rather than going for the Left most option
it's not about pragmatism, not about policy, not about progressiveness but mostly about picking the winningest choice to defeat the Right
white liberals and 3rd gen+ old stock white liberals need to chill the fuck up
it's not about pragmatism, not about policy, not about progressiveness but mostly about picking the winningest choice to defeat the Right
white liberals and 3rd gen+ old stock white liberals need to chill the fuck up
That's literally what pragmatism means in this context imo.
that's a trait but the defining trait. It's not light or dark
Liz will be an absolute disaster if she wins the nom
I'm not following you here. I don't know a ton about Warren, but what I think has a consistently bad track record is trying to go all meta and propose a candidate solely on the basis of perceived electability. I've, personally, never really known that strategy to work.
People should be voting for candidates that are legitimately exciting or have an ounce of legitimate political impetus, which certainly isn't Joe. And considering how cynical people are becoming about the political process, I don't think you're going to find that kind of candidate without some solid policy claims.
I haven't been paying close attention to other posters talking about Biden's Obama connection but it should be stated that it was only important in him getting recognized. He holds onto his position because he has qualities you aren't in tune with but sexist and racially resentful democrats are more comfortable with.
Trump getting away with his sexism and Biden not getting bumped down for his creepy photos with women is a feature of human civilization not a bug.
I must have missed when Biden has attacked amazon
Anyway, trump and Bernie both attacking Amazon is equating two people that like beer as the same thing.
Trump doesn't like Amazon because bezos owns wapo, that's literally it.
Bernie doesn't like Amazon because they are extremely anti competitive and treat their workers like shit. Is it really that hard?
I don't really care what you or anyone else thinks. I made a light hearted joke. Obviously Biden isn't Trump or another Trump. Was just pointing out there are a lot of similarities to their campaigns and how they act. Or have you missed where Biden keeps making stupid easy mistakes no campaign should make?
No shit. Nice to have numbers though.
Strategically, one of the reasons I like Bernie for the general is because he taps into the Biden space as well while having a lot of the policy positions of Warren. Bernie can also tap into the Trump flipper space unless I've missed something.
Strategically, one of the reasons I like Bernie for the general is because he taps into the Biden space as well while having a lot of the policy positions of Warren. Bernie can also tap into the Trump flipper space unless I've missed something.
Bernie being the 2nd choice for a lot of Trumpers was most definitely a (very, very toxic) thing in 2016.