samoyed

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
15,191
Bernie being the 2nd choice for a lot of Trumpers was most definitely a (very, very toxic) thing in 2016.
Sure. However, I cannot handle the moderate talking point of "we need to reach across the aisle, reclaim the independents" combined with "nerver Bernie, not a real democrat, he's a populist". They're contradictory stances.

I support Bernie for his policy but his demagoguery I consider politically advantageous.
 

GYODX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,335
Thank you for this post. It does make sense, for the 75% of black voters who are socially progressive (as opposed to the 25% seemingly religiously conservative ones indicated by Kirblar, who it does make sense they'd be against abolishing ICE and against LGBTQ rights and abortion), to go for a Biden-type if they think white people will support them more.

So it, once again, comes back to white voters not being trustworthy enough to make the right damn choices. Not surprising, but enlightening.
Well that's... Contrived.

When Biden wins the nomination, it'll be because he won the black vote. Same reason Clinton won the nomination. Remember the firewall? Black voters may just like Biden for reasons that have nothing to do with feeling compelled to vote for someone that is palatable to white conservatives, and saying otherwise seems very patronizing.
 
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Lexad

"This guy are sick"
Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,111
you are on this forum that's why you don't get it. This is prime progressive liberal space. From everything I have read most black voters like most Hispanic voters are moderates. Same is the case with South Asians and south East Asians
Exactly. I live in Seattle and many liberals DO NOT understand this. Hispanic especially because of Catholicism. African Americans in the south with Black churches. I live in an echo chamber that can't rationally realize that these groups are to the right of them on various issues
 

lmcfigs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,091
Sure. However, I cannot handle the moderate talking point of "we need to reach across the aisle, reclaim the independents" combined with "nerver Bernie, not a real democrat, he's a populist". They're contradictory stances.

I support Bernie for his policy but his demagoguery I consider politically advantageous.
I think a lot of it is because people don't think in terms of clear ideology like we do here. like clearly Bernie has very different politics from both Biden and Trump, but maybe that doesn't mean anything to most Americans who view him as their second favorite choice.
 
OP
OP
shinra-bansho

shinra-bansho

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,964
Covered above. It is a type of favor between an issue/policy and the candidate.

Yes, it literally does. They have enough awareness to know that that candidate has a particular kinship with that issue/policy.

Whether or not it's true, it's still an awareness.
Someone can be aware that Joe Biden once supported the Hyde Amendment, and actually like that because they are more moderate.
You can be aware of the Green New Deal and Medicare for All, and oppose them, and want someone who instead proposes a public option.

You cannot infer that the vote share is less aware or less informed, just that it is less liberal.
Joe Biden has a 21% higher vote share amongst more moderate/conservative Democrats than very liberal Democrat voters, and a 12% higher vote share than liberal voters.
 

Snake Eater

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,385
Biden is getting the nomination, but he's going to be trashed once the primaries are done
 

faceless

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,198
would be nice if some of the pearl clutchers so upset about the demographics would go out and campaign door to door in minority neighborhoods explaining in person why Warren or Sanders are the right choice.

that could be an effective strategy again.
 

Deleted member 18360

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,844
Biden is getting the nomination, but he's going to be trashed once the primaries are done

This is what I see happening, too. He's been fucking up so badly already that it's hard to imagine the eventual 1v1 with a glib and bellicose Trump going very well for him. Maybe if he was putting more emphasis on policy he'd be able to press Trump on his political ignorance, but Joe is largely deciding to run on vague feels instead, which isn't really the ideal battleground for squaring off with conservatives imo. But who knows, maybe Trump antipathy is enough that Biden doesn't need that. I sure hope it is, lol...
 

Deleted member 32561

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 11, 2017
3,831
Well that's... Contrived.

When Biden wins the nomination, it'll be because he won the black vote. Same reason Clinton won the nomination. Remember the firewall? Black voters may just like Biden for reasons that have nothing to do with feeling compelled to vote for someone that is palatable to white conservatives, and saying otherwise seems very patronizing.
Given I based my post on what had been posted in this thread and gone unchallenged (if contrasted), I'm not certain how my post is patronizing or contrived. And, given your post did make me take pause, I took the time to educate myself and research. It seems my conclusion is a conclusion supported by a number different articles written by black political analysts trying to explain and contextualize black support for Biden and other candidates this cycle. Here are a couple of them:

Like, I'm sure to some Black voters, particularly older straight black men, they do want Biden because of his policies, but none of the articles by black authors I read seem to bring it up as a particularly major point, if brought up as a point at all. It seems about as important as the Obama connection, if that. It's been brought up in this thread in contrast, sure, but it's come up just as much as pragmatism has been. Thus, synthesizing this information, it seems it's at best a 50/50 split between pragmatism and the individual being moderate/conservative.

Thus, I really don't see the issue in saying we white people need to do better in showing we can support candidates who want good things for all PoC rather than supporting a "comfortable" status quo (read: comfortable for upper-middle class and higher folks, typically white and straight) that disenfranchises different PoC groups in different ways. I don't see the issue in saying that laying the blame for poor candidates at the feet of black people is wildly unfair-- which is something black posters have brought up in this topic. My post was meant to just be me recognizing my white privilege and the need for me to do something with it. Basically, like faceless said above, yeah, we should be out canvassing black voters and other PoC if we want PoC to vote for our chosen candidate over Biden, and we should try to get better at getting our fellow white people to stop being, well, racist, either in microaggressive or actively bigoted ways.

Perhaps the way I phrased it came across as patronizing or contrived, in which case, yeah, I do apologize for that. I hope my explanation got the point I was trying to get across actually across.