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Deleted member 14313

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,622
I absolutely agree. I hate 'dexit' but I just do not get the graphics complaints. They look fine. Not every game has to push hardware to its limits.

Seen multiple people say it looks like a Gamecube game. Do those people even remember what XD and Colloseum looked liked lol.
 

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,311
I absolutely agree. I hate 'dexit' but I just do not get the graphics complaints. They look fine. Not every game has to push hardware to its limits.

Seen multiple people say it looks like a Gamecube game. Do those people even remember what XD and Colloseum looked liked lol.
They don't
vlcsnap-00002.png
 

pokéfan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,304
Sword & Shield are not pushing the hardware, probably nowhere near hitting the limits of the system, it's a average looking game on the switch. Just to accept GameFreak are not quite comfortable with HD games on a larger scale.
 

Sanka

Banned
Feb 17, 2019
5,778
That's not necessarily true. The game could have been a Let's Go 2.0 with the competitive features added back in but it wasn't
Apart from the wild area there wouldn't be much of a difference anyway. S&S looks and plays how you would expect a Pokeman game to play like. I would actually still call x/y the most ambitious because of the switch to 3D.
 

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,311
Apart from the wild area there wouldn't be much of a difference anyway. S&S looks and plays how you would expect a Pokeman game to play like. I would actually still call x/y the most ambitious because of the switch to 3D.
I can't call XY the most ambitious because the overworld was still grid based and not far off from BW2. Sun and Moon were more ambitious to me, and they are absolutely my favorite looking games on the 3DS
 

Sanka

Banned
Feb 17, 2019
5,778
I can't call XY the most ambitious because the overworld was still grid based and not far off from BW2. Sun and Moon were more ambitious to me, and they are absolutely my favorite looking games on the 3DS
The sheer workload needed to create all those pokemon is just impressive to me. I would also agree that Sun and Moon were quite good looking. They really made use of the power of the 3DS. Which is why i dislike S&S so much. It's not the 3DS anymore, handheld game design is just detrimental for a AAA jrpg on a modern console.
 

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,311
Holy shit I haven't even seen this lol. Let's hope this is from an earlier build because god damn.
It's just what you get when you use cube map reflections instead of screen space reflections (I believe these are the correct terms). It's less taxing but not precise, it's not like they actively put the trees in the wrong place or anything lol
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
It's just what you get when you use cube map reflections instead of screen space reflections (I believe these are the correct terms). It's less taxing but not precise, it's not like they actively put the trees in the wrong place or anything lol
Of course they didn't lol, but it still looks really bad. I'd rather have no reflections than whatever that is.
 

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,311
Of course they didn't lol, but it still looks really bad. I'd rather have no reflections than whatever that is.
I don't think it's gonna be very noticeable while playing and moving around, and it looks better than not having them if you don't notice. You said it yourself that's the first time you saw it after all
 

hussien-11

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,315
Jordan
Totally understandable for a franchise that sells 15 million units every year;
outstanding effort ...

Are you saying every game that sell over 10 or 15 million copies should have the best graphics out there? because this is certainly not the case with tons of games out there.

Anyway, it was never as easy as you think it is. it is true that Pokemon sells extremely well, but it used to do that for 40$, which means less revenue compared to fully priced games. above that, the game is owned by 3 parties, and they all have their share. it is more risky for Game Freak to expand and increase the budget in the way you think they should. they still expanded and they are delivering a true HD Pokemon. it looks charming to me, and I don't usually play Pokemon.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
I don't think it's gonna be very noticeable while playing and moving around, and it looks better than not having them if you don't notice. You said it yourself that's the first time you saw it after all
Yeah because I didn't see much footage of it. Let's hope you're right then.
 

Hercule

Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,444
Personally I can't wait till it's November and the games are out. Every pokemon topic is the same.

Someone makes a complaint and another one comes to defend S&S. There is no other franchise that has such a devoted fanbase.

I absolutely love Pokémon and play Go every day at least 6 hours but if they cancel S&S I wouldn't lose any sleep because of it
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
Game could definitely look better, but GF is talking the slow approach to improving tech. Probably because they try to put out a game every year
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,072
It's weird because the bike produces water ripple effects and so do the Mantyke/tyne leaping out of the water, but Gyarados and Milotic look like they're just clipping through it.

Q9RzENH4.gif
See that's so weird. I know people keep saying in development. But like this is like a detail that definitely should be there.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,609
North Carolina
My thing is, if there was genuinely a trade-off between the game looking better and features/pokemon being cut, I'd rather they look worse and have less detailed animations
 

Burrman

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,633
People like me just want the Mario/Zelda treatment for a franchise this huge. I'm not saying it looks horrible, but it doesn't look great either.
 

Foffy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,395
Pokemon has never been graphically impressive, or at least none of the mainline games have been, even at the time of their release.

I think people incorrectly assumed a mainline, home console game would change this because it's now on a console, and thus expectations were made incredibly high. People have looked for any reason to assume a passable, serviceable enough effort is somehow a lazy effort. I think that mixed with the Pokedex problem have turned expectations for this game to be almost venomous: people are looking to dislike this game. Something people are putting money to experience.
 

Deleted member 5127

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,584
It looks pretty and that's it, doesn't come close to Zelda and Mario, but main title Zelda and Mario games also come out every couple of years so it's wishful thinking and unrealistic to compare Pokemon to that which is more of an annual thing.
 

King Alamat

Member
Nov 22, 2017
8,127
My thing is, if there was genuinely a trade-off between the game looking better and features/pokemon being cut, I'd rather they look worse and have less detailed animations
I know this is a constant refrain from me, but this series should've never gone 3D. Gen 4 was the absolute peak of this series and if the games stayed with that aesthetic while adding and keeping all of the QoL changes from later generations, I'd be way more hyped than I am right now.
 

King Alamat

Member
Nov 22, 2017
8,127
This is nonsensical. 3D was necessary and 2D would have been significantly more difficult to animate
As opposed to modeling 700+ monsters with their own attack and Amie animations (and walk cycles that went unused) at such high fidelity the games chug when there's more than two Pokemon on screen. Look, I'm not asking for BlazBlue-level animation, I just think the art style used in Gen 4 had more charm and would've sidestepped a lot of complaints about the graphics.
 
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Serif

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,805
Yup. That's the whole crux. I'd even take the other option too, but not this middle-of-the-road nonsense.

To add, the performance issues in the 3DS games felt 'justified' due to the high poly-count of the models. The 600+ models and animations that Game Freak / Creatures made for all the legacy Pokemon between Gen V and VI were honestly pretty damn good (the Amie animations in particular are nice and expressive) and created the expectation that we would be continuing to see them on the Switch. The walk/run cycles for all these Pokemon being datamined reinforced this.

I think the developers will willing to make the 3D models for 600+ Pokemon because they'd be used across a multitude of other titles like Pokemon Go, but no longer prioritize touching them up and bringing them over to the newer games. So when people bring up the identical meshes and animations it's less "look they're lazy and reusing stuff" and moreso "why aren't they using all the resources they already made to include everyone"? Ultimately flawed since we don't know what they attempted in development - the decision to cut Pokemon may have very well been one of the first things they decided - but I see where they're coming from.
 

Wispmetas

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
6,546
As opposed to modeling 700+ monsters with their own attack and Amie animations (and walk cycles that went unused) at such high fidelity the games chug when there's more than two Pokemon on screen. Look, I'm not asking for BlazBlue-level animation, I just think the art style used in Gen 4 had more charm and would've sidestepped a lot of complaints about the graphics.



Saw this video the other day, it explains pretty well why the jump to 3D was in the end a very good change for development.
 

Deleted member 46429

Self-requested ban
Banned
Aug 4, 2018
2,185
Aesthetically it's fine, but the overall presentation looks like a 3ds game. I don't feel like they're using 3D environments in any way they haven't before, which reflects the broader issue of SwSh feeling "more of the same."

Like, what is something that would affect the presentation? Seeing Pokémon in the map in their native habitat interacting with the environment. It'd be neat to walk into a cave, for example, and see zubat wake up and fly over you or if you want Heracross, look at trees to see if they sapping. The big world thing *sort of* has this, but I feel the Pokémon aren't interacting with their environment but are instead are just sort of there. I guess acting for such a small level of detail is asking too much, but it's certainly lend itself to a sort of exploration Pokémon hasn't had before.
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,744
As opposed to modeling 700+ monsters with their own attack and Amie animations (and walk cycles that went unused) at such high fidelity the games chug when there's more than two Pokemon on screen. Look, I'm not asking for BlazBlue-level animation, I just think the art style used in Gen 4 had more charm and would've sidestepped a lot of complaints about the graphics.
So what, you think we'd just have sub-HD sprites till the end of time? Not to mentioning all those animations would've just been done on the sprites which would have been immensely difficult and had to be thrown out if they weren't reusing sprites for future games. The Gen 4 art style looked good for a small DS screen, but it would be incredibly underwhelming on a large screen in HD. And this is coming from someone who still plays a number of sprite based games. Pokemon just makes more sense in 3D
 

Yata

Member
Feb 1, 2019
2,962
Spain
Graphics are the least of this game's problems. It looks good aside from the Wild Area.

Pretty telling to see "FOR A POKEMON GAME" at the end of so many posts with this franchise.
 

TreeMePls

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,258
My thing is, if there was genuinely a trade-off between the game looking better and features/pokemon being cut, I'd rather they look worse and have less detailed animations
Ive personally accepted the cut at this point. However I have yet to see something that actually makes me think it was worth it
 

King Alamat

Member
Nov 22, 2017
8,127
So what, you think we'd just have sub-HD sprites till the end of time? Not to mentioning all those animations would've just been done on the sprites which would have been immensely difficult and had to be thrown out if they weren't reusing sprites for future games. The Gen 4 art style looked good for a small DS screen, but it would be incredibly underwhelming on a large screen in HD. And this is coming from someone who still plays a number of sprite based games. Pokemon just makes more sense in 3D
I would much rather have a cute, sprite-based RPG that iterated on its best features than a model-based one with graphics that are nowhere up to par with either current RPGs on the market or other Switch titles while both eliminating perhaps half of the Pokedex and shoving a bunch of shallow gimmicks down everyone's throats with the knowledge they'll be gone by the next game.

There really isn't anything you can say to change my mind about how disappointing this new generation is, there's no Jedi mind trick you can use to get me to like the thing you like. I'm only here for new Pokemon because I can enjoy them outside of the game they're attached to.
 

Zoon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,397
Considering it's the latest video game entry of the biggest media franchise and we are almost in 2020, graphics do look average at best.
 

IzzyRX

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
5,816
It looks fine. It could be better? Yeah, but honesly, it's what we got and it's not bad.
I'm looking foward gen 9, that's when Gamefreak will show what they learned and put it into pratice.
 

BassForever

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,961
CT
It's a mixture of all the little problems that add up to a big one for people

People may not have been as upset by dexit if the game was jaw dropping graphically and every pokemon in the game had tons of unique animations for most of their attacks

People may not have been as upset at the graphics if this game was super packed with content where gamefreak was showing off tons of new pokemon, updates to old pokemon from every generation, new qol improvements, etc

People would probably be less frustrated with the excess of new content for gen 1 if we hadn't just had a gen 1 exclusive remake last year.

People would probably be less cynical about the marketing if they had been upfront about dexit as opposed to quietly dropping the bomb during e3 week on treehouse live while spending 15 minutes on a pokemon sleep game a few weeks prior.

It feels like in a lot of ways gamefreak has chosen the worst combination of things to make a game people are really frustrated by. I imagine if ruby/sapphire came out today people would have had a similar vocal backlash to it due to the cutting of features and missing pokemon who got trapped in the old games with no way to bring them forward.
 

King Alamat

Member
Nov 22, 2017
8,127
It's a mixture of all the little problems that add up to a big one for people

People may not have been as upset by dexit if the game was jaw dropping graphically and every pokemon in the game had tons of unique animations for most of their attacks

People may not have been as upset at the graphics if this game was super packed with content where gamefreak was showing off tons of new pokemon, updates to old pokemon from every generation, new qol improvements, etc

People would probably be less frustrated with the excess of new content for gen 1 if we hadn't just had a gen 1 exclusive remake last year.

People would probably be less cynical about the marketing if they had been upfront about dexit as opposed to quietly dropping the bomb during e3 week on treehouse live while spending 15 minutes on a pokemon sleep game a few weeks prior.

It feels like in a lot of ways gamefreak has chosen the worst combination of things to make a game people are really frustrated by. I imagine if ruby/sapphire came out today people would have had a similar vocal backlash to it due to the cutting of features and missing pokemon who got trapped in the old games with no way to bring them forward.
This is what frustrates me the most about the discourse surrounding these games, it's not just one thing that's fueling a lot of the discontent, it's all of these things taken together. Game Freak's chickens are coming home to roost and the studio's most fervant defenders disingenuously ignore all this and paint all criticism as coming from a place of pendantry, ignorance or toxicity.
 

Umbrella Carp

Banned
Jan 16, 2019
3,265
It doesn't look ugly, it looks shallow. It looks like Nintendo told Game Freak to change the game to something closer to BOTW very late in development and they did their best to facilitate that in the limited time and resources they had, but this seemingly large, 3D world is actually closer to a linear theme park ride with one wide "open world" space to hunt and catch Pokemon along the way, but for the most part you're following a relatively linear path from one Gym to the next.
 

Armite

Member
Mar 30, 2018
959
The reflections and lack of ripples on swimmers don't strike me as things to worry about until the actual games are out, since plenty of small details are improving as the game is developing.
 

Aleh

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,311
why would you call SunMoon the most ambitious?
Not the most ambitious, just more than XY which played exactly like gen 5. It was such a breath of fresh air to see natural looking environments and smooth walking and running main characters. I hated XY's movement options with a passion.
 

AnimeJesus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,189
It looks alright but ya the vacant towns and npcs that pop in are kinda jarring. I'd expect better from a dev that makes as much money as Gamefreak does. They should essentially be the Rockstar type dev of Japan.
 

MoonlitBow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,881
IMO it's mainly the free roaming "open world" areas that don't look great, screenshots of smaller locations in other parts of the game like routes and towns look just fine.
 

Eclipse

Member
Jan 31, 2018
176
Germany
EHGOMYdX0AAeyA-


I've called this embarrassing in a discord and people immediately took it offensively. I'm sorry, can't expect anything in 2019/2020 while paying 50% more for the mainline titles. Obviously this doesn't even bother me that much but they could have gotten it right..
 

ILikeFeet

DF Deet Master
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
61,987
It looks alright but ya the vacant towns and npcs that pop in are kinda jarring. I'd expect better from a dev that makes as much money as Gamefreak does. They should essentially be the Rockstar type dev of Japan.
the IP doesn't really afford them long gaps inbetween releases. though TPC could be better about spin-offs

in any case, Game Freak will have to spend more time on these games going forward.