I love The Boys, but what the fuck is up with the Arab portrayal? *spoilers*

[DFG]

Man, I'm just tired of media portraying us as bad guys always angry and shouting and most likely will explode to kill the Americans....
I've been enjoying this show really well, I'm not actively asking for any character to be Arab, but if you're going to include an Arab character, why in the name of fuck make him:
1. a terrorist
2. sound really angry
3. Give him EXPLODING superpowers

The effects were even flames... just have him be flaming powers. Like, he didn't need to explode. Come on now. It's really bothering me, probably because of how much I like the show.

Anyone else was bothered?

 

[Sou Da]

Because the source material is awful

 

[DFG]

Because the source material is awful

Click to shrink...

Never read the comics 🤷‍♂️

 

[Razmos]

Isn't that kind of the point in the show?

Spoiler

They engineered "super villains" for their heroes to fight and for America to be afraid of, in order to get superheroes into the army

 

[DFG]

Isn't that kind of the point in the show?

Spoiler

They engineered "super villains" for their heroes to fight and for America to be afraid of, in order to get superheroes into the army

Click to shrink...

Nah that's not what I'm discussing. They're just using stereotypes to portray that message. You can write a villain without using cheap overused "scary exploding Arab"

 

[TronLight]

Nah that's not what I'm discussing. They're just using stereotypes to portray that message. You can write a villain without using cheap overused "scary exploding Arab"

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But that's pretty much the point of the show. They don't want a human, they want a boogeyman.

 

[Mandius]

Nah that's not what I'm discussing. They're just using stereotypes to portray that message. You can write a villain without using cheap overused "scary exploding Arab"

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It's a satire of America and american culture. If this was being made 40 years ago, the villain would probably be some sort of super communist. The point is that there is a scary exploding arab.

 

[Lost Knight]

Arab here, the show makes it clear that they're using these guys to make people be afraid and they're using stereotypes to do that, so I don't mind it in this context.

 

[Arkestry]

I sort of agree with the idea that the whole point of that character is that they wanted a boogeyman stereotype to gain political favour back in the US, but at the same time the fact that that's the only arabic representation in the show isn't great. They definitely could have balanced it out with something along the lines of Kimiko and her brother, rather than just having a single arabic character and having them be a terrorist.

 

[Westbahnhof]

Never read the comics 🤷‍♂️

Click to shrink...

Never do.

Spoiler: a page from the comics. it's horrible (the text, the image isn't graphic), so be warned

The comic is just pure edge. All good ideas are drowned out by edgy bullshit, which is often sexist, racist, homophobic, etc.

 

[DFG]

Arab here, the show makes it clear that they're using these guys to make people be afraid and they're using stereotypes to do that, so I don't mind it in this context.

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Hmm this got me thinking. But I don't agree still.

 

[Deleted member 25606]

Nah that's not what I'm discussing. They're just using stereotypes to portray that message. You can write a villain without using cheap overused "scary exploding Arab"

Click to shrink...

I think what they are trying to get across to you is the show didn't make that up it's from the source material. And the reason why people who hated the comic love the show is because in the comic it's exactly what your saying, whereas the show took the that and turned it on his head, America (Homelander specifically) made that terrorist, purposefully from an Arab to be exploded because that's what he expected Americans to be afraid of so he could get the defense contracts.

They tried to make the best of what they could from a shit source, blame Garth Ennis not the writers of the Amazon show.

 

[Deleted member 16516]

The portrayal of Arab people in Western media is terrible in general.

 

[BeeDog]

The show is not too good with the portrayal of Arabs/the Middle East, I agree. It becomes extra obvious and borderline hilarious when I'm watching "The Boys" in parallel with the French spy show "The Bureau". That show obviously paints many Arabic countries and characters as adversaries, but they're not painted as true enemies and all the Muslim characters are really well-presented and intelligent. Even the Daesh characters!

 

[DFG]

I think what they are trying to get across to you is the show didn't make that up it's from the source material. And the reason why people who hated the comic love the show is because in the comic it's exactly what your saying, whereas the show took the that and turned it on his head, America (Homelander specifically) made that terrorist, purposefully from an Arab to be exploded because that's what he expected Americans to be afraid of so he could get the defense contracts.

They tried to make the best of what they could from a shit source, blame Garth Ennis not the writers of the Amazon show.

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Oh thanks for explaining that. I still think the exploding part got me bothered when the flames effects were good and gone with a flame perosn but isn't that one of the precious powers of The Seven?

 

[Trisc]

For narrative purposes, it makes sense that Vought would want to create supervillains that are easily demonized by the western media. Homelander, who is an incredibly nationalistic and narrow-minded asshole, purposefully allowed an ISIS cell to acquire Compound-V. It's absolutely in-character for a racist shithead like him to give a member of ISIS the ability to explode. Naqib is, in a way, the perfect scapegoat for Vought's heroes to go to war in the Middle East, as Homelander so desperately wants to do.

Additionally, the show is playing into a lot of post-9/11 paranoia in the west, particularly with how arms manufacturers and the US government capitalized on false flag operations to rake in absurd amounts of money. The comic did the same, but with considerably less tact. Perhaps Ennis not having as much influence on the TV show is for the better. Some of the choices he made with characters were... less than stellar, let's say.

However, none of what I said discredits the point you made: Naqib is the only named Arabic character who immediately comes to mind, and he exists almost solely as a facsimile of the stereotypical suicide bomber. It is questionable at best that Naqib is barely developed as a character, and ultimately his death is played for laughs.

The show has done far better at depicting the horror of corporate exploitation and the military industrial complex while also lending humanity to those who are victims of that exploitation. The season's ongoing story arc with Maeve is a fantastic example of how the writers deal with heavy subject matter like bi erasure and being publicly outed with a heavy focus on the show's anti-corporate themes, while simultaneously lending humanity to the character.

If the writers can do that with Maeve, they surely could do it for Arabic characters. Instead, we get a gory montage of Homelander popping a terrorist cell like grapes with his heat vision to "Rock the Casbah".

 

[Razmos]

I sort of agree with the idea that the whole point of that character is that they wanted a boogeyman stereotype to gain political favour back in the US, but at the same time the fact that that's the only arabic representation in the show isn't great. They definitely could have balanced it out with something along the lines of Kimiko and her brother, rather than just having a single arabic character and having them be a terrorist.

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I totally agree with this, it would have been great to have another character be introduced with that storyline to show the long term effects of it and balance things out

 

[Deleted member 16876]

I never watched it but if there is criticism and it is effective then I am fine with it being used this way in this particular case. They should however add other arab characters that are not portrayed this way because having the sole arab character being a stereotype is bad.

With that said, fuck media that portrays arab characters with this stereotype. It is really fucking tiring to be the villain in everything and being portrayed with a stereotype.

 

[DFG]

For narrative purposes, it makes sense that Vought would want to create supervillains that are easily demonized by the western media. Homelander, who is an incredibly nationalistic and narrow-minded asshole, purposefully allowed an ISIS cell to acquire Compound-V. It's absolutely in-character for a racist shithead like him to give a member of ISIS the ability to explode. Naqib is, in a way, the perfect scapegoat for Vought's heroes to go to war in the Middle East, as Homelander so desperately wants to do.

Additionally, the show is playing into a lot of post-9/11 paranoia in the west, particularly with how arms manufacturers and the US government capitalized on false flag operations to rake in absurd amounts of money. The comic did the same, but with considerably less tact. Perhaps Ennis not having as much influence on the TV show is for the better. Some of the choices he made with characters were... less than stellar, let's say.

However, none of what I said discredits the point you made: Naqib is the only named Arabic character who immediately comes to mind, and he exists almost solely as a facsimile of the stereotypical suicide bomber. It is questionable at best that Naqib is barely developed as a character, and ultimately his death is played for laughs.

The show has done far better at depicting the horror of corporate exploitation and the military industrial complex while also lending humanity to those who are victims of that exploitation. The season's ongoing story arc with Maeve is a fantastic example of how the writers deal with heavy subject matter like bi erasure and being publicly outed with a heavy focus on the show's anti-corporate themes, while simultaneously lending humanity to the character.

If the writers can do that with Maeve, they surely could do it for Arabic characters. Instead, we get a gory montage of Homelander popping a terrorist cell like grapes with his heat vision to "Rock the Casbah".

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Well put comment. It's pretty much how I feel on it, I still think the show is great. Maybe one day we'll see some less stereotypes and actual meaningful inclusion haha

 

[Deleted member 25606]

Oh thanks for explaining that. I still think the exploding part got me bothered when the flames effects were good and gone with a flame perosn but isn't that one of the precious powers of The Seven?

Click to shrink...

I mean, your not wrong and I think your right both in general and with the show, I am just saying they are making the best with what they have been given and with that as with a lot of other stuff they have tried to take the original material and make a point that is at odds with the original material.

For instance

Spoiler: Spoiler for early season one and the comic version

In the show The Deep sexually abuses Starlight and it comes back on him and not only did they make him pay for it but he is still paying and they definitely got across the message it's bad.

In the comic all the male members of the Seven including Homelander basically gang rape her and other than giving her reason to turn on them their is no consequence or punishment, they get away with it completely, and other than a general "boy superhero's are actually awful huh" there is no actual commentary or implication that it was especially heinous.

 

[Deleted member 8463]

Yeah even if I agree with the sentiment that it's purposeful it is still not great. I think only the superpowered guy had a name and it's always an *unnamed* ME country they're in too. I thought the dialogue surrounding Kimiko's identity was really weird, they're like "sHeS a TeRrOrIsT!" like an episode or two after they put C4 up someone's arse.

 

[DFG]

I mean, your not wrong and I think your right both in general and with the show, I am just saying they are making the best with what they have been given and with that as with a lot of other stuff they have tried to take the original material and make a point that is at odds with the original material.

For instance

Spoiler: Spoiler for early season one and the comic version

In the show The Deep sexually abuses Starlight and it comes back on him and not only did they make him pay for it but he is still paying and they definitely got across the message it's bad.

In the comic all the male members of the Seven including Homelander basically gang rape her and other than giving her reason to turn on them their is no consequence or punishment, they get away with it completely, and other than a general "boy superhero's are actually awful huh" there is no actual commentary or implication that it was especially heinous.

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That spoiler... I'm glad I just went with the show. The other comments for comics panels too... whew mate

 

[skeezx]

In universe makes sense theres some V-jacked not isis asshole out there but yeah i get it, it's problematic

I think it boils down to tone of the show in general. The black superhero whose superpower is... running fast. and oh yeah he's a juicehead dumbass.

On paper its pretty oof

 

[Deleted member 25606]

That spoiler... I'm glad I just went with the show. The other comments for comics panels too... whew mate

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Yeah, when comic readers tell you the comic is shit, we mean it.

 

[DFG]

In universe makes sense theres some V-jacked not isis asshole out there but yeah i get it, it's problematic

I think it boils down to tone of the show in general. The black superhero whose superpower is... running fast. and oh yeah he's a juicehead dumbass.

On paper its pretty oof

Click to shrink...

Yeah. At least you get to see his brother who's a level headed dude, fans who recognise him being black kids, and we even have a black character in the cast. At least there are variety of black people to think T-Train is just a dumbass who's done bad shit on juice.

 

[Neoriceisgood]

When this show was announced I took a quick glance at 2-3 chapters of the comic.

It genuinely might be the worst comic I have ever seen in my life.

 

[VideogameVices]

just about everyone in the show is awful

 

[Lost Knight]

Hmm this got me thinking. But I don't agree still.

Click to shrink...

I get you, but we must also remember that this is a show that is mostly composed of caricatures and it tries to point out the flaws of American society and how power is used to control people, the use of a boogieman in this context makes sense because that's how it's used IRL, albeit in a more subtle way. Trust me, I'm from Iraq and my original homeland was used for war and I get why this might upset you.

 

[VideogameVices]

Also - if you think this is bad... have you seen what's that show? Jack Ryan on amazon prime... that is way worse

 

[L Thammy]

Never do.

Spoiler: a page from the comics. it's horrible (the text, the image isn't graphic), so be warned

The comic is just pure edge. All good ideas are drowned out by edgy bullshit, which is often sexist, racist, homophobic, etc.

Click to shrink...

I can't speak for The Boys in particular, but I feel like there's a whole industry out there of basically constructing elaborate excuses to consume bigotry. Like, how many things are there that say racism is bad, starring a racist white guy?

Often we're told "everyone in this show is bad", which may be true, but it's also a pretty standard arrangement nowadays.

 

[fanboi]

In general I agree with you with some noticable exception from wester media.

But this show whole stick is to have a fascist mega capitalism state and in season 2:

Spoiler

Whole Homelander Save America PR campaign

 

[DFG]

I get you, but we must also remember that this is a show that is mostly composed of caricatures and it tries to point out the flaws of American society and how power is used to control people, the use of a boogieman in this context makes sense because that's how it's used IRL, albeit in a more subtle way. Trust me, I'm from Iraq and my original homeland was used for war and I get why this might upset you.

Click to shrink...

As far as I know compound v doesn't give you a specific power you wish for unless something happens in the next 3 episodes I haven't watched yet. It's kind of hard to believe, and convenient to have an Arab guy exploding powers in the middle east to further the narrative to vote superheroes into the military. Wouldn't any other power basically send the same message? That there are terrorists with superpowers now?

 

[PunchyMalone]

Nah that's not what I'm discussing. They're just using stereotypes to portray that message. You can write a villain without using cheap overused "scary exploding Arab"

Click to shrink...

They're terrorists made for marketing purposes. So using images from modern American propaganda is part of their message. The show is a satire, so it's not reinforcing these ideas, it's dunking on them.

 

[DFG]

They're terrorists made for marketing purposes. So using images from modern American propaganda is part of their message. The show is a satire, so it's not reinforcing these ideas, it's dunking on them.

Click to shrink...

Can they give specific powers to people? I haven't watched the new 3 episodes of S2 yet.

 

[PunchyMalone]

Can they give specific powers to people? I haven't watched the new 3 episodes of S2 yet.

Click to shrink...

I don't think so, but it wouldn't surprise me if Vought (or is Homelander doing this on his own?) set him up for this role because of what powers he got.

Edit: I'm not arguing it's not sterotypical, btw. I'm just saying it's playing on the sterotype for their own propaganda.

 

[Potterson]

Because the source material is awful

Click to shrink...

I'm actually surprised how much better the show is. In the comic, Annie

Spoiler

was apologising for being raped, and Huey was pissed at her after she was assaulted

for example, that's fucking absurd. So I feel like they managed to remake such stupid themes quite well.

I'd say the Arab issue is the worst. But at the same time I don't think that guy is a "real" terrorist. He's only shown fighting with soldiers.

And no, they can't give people specific powers afaik.

 

[Palette Swap]

As everyone has said, the source material is terrible, and I'm glad the show is course correcting, but yeah, that's still pretty bad.

 

[DFG]

I don't think so, but it wouldn't surprise me if Vought (or is Homelander doing this on his own?) set him up for this role because of what powers he got.

Edit: I'm not arguing it's not sterotypical, btw. I'm just saying it's playing on the sterotype for their own propaganda.

Click to shrink...

It's awful convenient for Homelander lol

I'm actually surprised how much better the show is. In the comic, Annie

Spoiler

was apologising for being raped, and Huey was pissed at her after she was assaulted

for example, that's fucking absurd. So I feel like they managed to remake such stupid themes quite well.

I'd say the Arab issue is the worst. But at the same time I don't think that guy is a "real" terrorist. He's only shown fighting with soldiers.

And no, they can't give people specific powers afaik.

Click to shrink...

Yooooo what. That spoiler is high level of yikes. When was it released?

 

[PunchyMalone]

It's awful convenient for Homelander lol

Click to shrink...

True. But now I'm wondering, did the war in the middle east happen in this universe?

Seems weird to get 9/11ed if Homelander and other supers are around.

 

[orava]

True. But now I'm wondering, did the war in the middle east happen in this universe?

Seems weird to get 9/11ed if Homelander and other supers are around.

Click to shrink...

9/11 in that universe would be a jackpot for the main megacorporation.

Spoiler: comic spoiler

The plane scene was the actual 9/11 plane in the comics. The supes fucked it up and the plane landed on a bridge full of people and cars.

 

[jelly]

The whole show is pretty bad in similar regards. I sort of get what they are going for but it's really cringe and over the top sometimes when it could be more subtle and they almost revel too much in it which is weird.

 

[Khanimus]

The show is miles better than the comic (which is a low bar), but it's still happy to revel in showing a bunch of black and brown bodies getting mowed down for little more than flavor.

 

[Westbahnhof]

Seems weird to get 9/11ed if Homelander and other supers are around.

Click to shrink...

How do? Didn't S1 explain that kinda directly? Sorry, been a while, maybe I'm misremembering

Yooooo what. That spoiler is high level of yikes. When was it released?

Click to shrink...

Comics ran from 2006 to 2012

 

[GMM]

I love the show, but the representation of the terrorists is a little too on the nose even if it's meant to be satire on how many people in the US view many Arabic countries as enemies after 9/11.

In the end they are just extreme stereotypes that Homelander manufactures or uses to improve his own position, they are nothing more than a common enemy and season 2 does touch on some of the collective hypocrisy we see in scenarios like that.

I think what sends it over the line is the terrorist superpowers, the guys super power is to self detonate? Really?

 

[DFG]

9/11 in that universe would be a jackpot for the main megacorporation.

Spoiler: comic spoiler

The plane scene was the actual 9/11 plane in the comics. The supes fucked it up and the plane landed on a bridge full of people and cars.

Click to shrink...

How does it compare to the show? As in, what's your opinion on which was done better?

 

[Lost Knight]

As far as I know compound v doesn't give you a specific power you wish for unless something happens in the next 3 episodes I haven't watched yet. It's kind of hard to believe, and convenient to have an Arab guy exploding powers in the middle east to further the narrative to vote superheroes into the military. Wouldn't any other power basically send the same message? That there are terrorists with superpowers now?

Click to shrink...

I won't spoil it, but this rabbit hole goes far deeper than that, trust me.

 

[A Strong Latte]

It's cuz Garth Ennis is an edgelord fuckhead

 

[JesseEwiak]

The whole show is pretty bad in similar regards. I sort of get what they are going for but it's really cringe and over the top sometimes when it could be more subtle and they almost revel too much in it which is weird.

Click to shrink...

I mean, the problem is a lot of the time, reality isn't subtle. Look at Fox News & right wing media in general. If we piped in a newsfeed from our 2020 into Universe X, where Humphrey won the 1968 election, we'd looked like an over the top TV show as well. Hell, look back at the actual debates about the Civil Rights Act - some of the stuff Southern Senator's actually said would be turned down by any writer for being too stereotypical of the racist Southern senator.

Not everybody has depth.

Now, I think arguments there should be Muslim/Arab characters who are more three dimensional also on-screen are perfectly valid, but the reality is also, this is exactly what a right-wing authoritarian superhero would do, to gin up popular support.

 

[Deleted member 11370]

Fun fact: The Boys was originally published by DC Comics's WildStorm imprint, but was dropped after only 6 issues because DC thought its content was just too much. Within the first six issues! Dynamite then picked it up and run with it.

 

[Siggy-P]

It's a situation whereby they're doing the stereotype on purpose to try make a point... But it can be irrelevant as they're still doing the stereotype anyway.

In regards especially to Arabs when this is the dominant portrayel of Arabs, even a "look we're being ironic" portrayel often backfires because it's just actually adding to the amount of negative portrayels.