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Maple

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,761
I never played Halo 5 when it came out back in 2015. I felt burned by Halo 4, and once I saw the continuation of that art design in Halo 5, along with the lack of any LAN or split-screen play, I avoided the game completely.

Since Halo 5 is on Game Pass, though, I decided to try it out recently. I won't go into detail on the abysmal story, the continued use of this terrible art style and direction, or the Spartan abilities. Rather, I want to focus on another aspect that I feel 343 has utterly ruined - multiplayer map design.

Unique and highly memorable multiplayer map design has always been an integral part of the Halo franchise. It's part of the game's DNA. This is the franchise that gave use maps like Blood Gulch, Hang 'Em High, Chill Out, Sidewinder, Battle Creek, Lockout, Zanzibar, Ascension, Guardian, Narrows, etc. All of these are incredibly unique maps that look good, have good balance, flow, and/or are just plain unique. No, they're not all "competitively viable", but they're all absurdly fun. We don't see maps like Hang 'Em High or Lockout made anymore, because everything apparently has to be competitively balanced. All unique map design has been thrown out the window.

So even though I knew that going into Halo 5, I am still stunned at just how bad these maps are. It doesn't even feel like Halo. It's not just the art design, but the layout, flow, pacing of the maps are nothing short of terrible. I found myself getting turned around multiple times, trapped in a dead end with no way up and having to backtrack, or falling off something or having to stop and look at what was playable space vs something there just for aesthetics. This may be a mix of the over designed geometry and visual clutter of the art direction, along with just poorly structured maps.

Not only that, but why the hell does everything have a grimy warehouse theme? The Rig, Torque, Plaza, Overgrowth, Fathom, Empire, Eden, etc. All of these have this boring, mundane grimy city/warehouse theme that doesn't feel anything like Halo. There is nothing unique, noteworthy, or memorable about these maps. It's like they were design for 4v4 E-Sports Championships instead of fun. Not, the two aren't mutually exclusive, but with 343 it feels like they are.

Additionally, many of the maps are just reskins of each other - Empire and Eden are the same map, Plaza and Overgrowth are the same, The Rig and Molten are the same, etc. So there really aren't even that many to begin with. Every other map is either a Warzone map or something made with Forge. And that's another issue - vehicles. Every map with vehicles is some massive map for 24 player Warzone modes. What happened to smaller 4-12 player maps with a Ghost parked somewhere or a Warthog? Nothing like that exists unless it's something made in Forge.

It's just painful looking at what this franchise has become in many ways, but particularly in multiplayer design. This is a franchise which gave us the following -

d2709845c5f6535a-600x338.jpg

latest

latest


1200px-H2_Lockout.jpg

latest

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It's just amazing that we don't see maps like this anymore. And it wasn't just the map layout, design, and aesthetics. These maps had so much character. Listen to this -

www.youtube.com

Halo 1 Multiplayer Ambience: Hang 'Em High

Ambience audio from the iconic multiplayer map, Hang 'Em High, from Halo: Combat Evolved. This also plays during the '343 Guilty Spark' level in the Campaign...
www.youtube.com

Halo 1 Multiplayer Ambience: Sidewinder

Ambience audio from the multiplayer map, Sidewinder, from Halo: Combat Evolved.šŸŽµ 'Ambience Audio (Halo Series)' playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?l...

Even the ambient noises in these maps were mysterious, haunting, and hypnotic. It set the mood for the entire match and just gave each map even more character.

With Halo Infinite, I'm not even sure what we're going to get. 343 has stated Halo is going back to "its roots", but I have serious doubts about their ability to create new, unique maps that are, above all else, fun.
 
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Lentic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,836
This may be a mix of the over designed geometry and visual clutter of the art direction, along with just poorly structured maps.
I couldn't agree more. The art direction after Reach has been absolutely garbage. Halo has lost its distinct art style and recognizable designs. Somewhere along the line they decided to start cranking the saturation slider and crushing the black levels. It looks like vomit on the screen. Such a far cry from the clean geometry of older games.

Here's an example of the same maps, but it kind of highlights the problem of the color and the over-designed geometry. The bottom one is cleaner and easier on the eyes. You can easily distinguish the geometry, while the top one is over-designed and harder to parse.
 
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Saiyaman

Member
Dec 19, 2017
1,880
Map design peaked in Halo 2 and has slowly been getting less and less memorable with each new iteration. It's probably my biggest issue with Halo, and with each new game, I hope and hope that they surprise us with some well-designed maps.

Halo MP is probably my 2nd most played MP game of all time, but once you hit Reach, all of the maps start blending in together. It's a far cry from your Blood Gulch, Containment, Headlong, Lockout, Ivory Towers, Midship, Ascension, etc. They used to be well designed and visually distinct.

Man, Halo 2 was so memorable.
 

zoabs

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
May 7, 2018
1,675
Hey at least they're a huge step up from Halo Reach and 4.

Some really good maps in there, just the aesthetics are awful/generic.

Colliseum and Fathom are great.
 
OP
OP
Maple

Maple

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,761
I couldn't agree more. The art direction after Reach has been absolutely garbage. Halo has lost its distinct art style and recognizable designs. Somewhere along the line they decided to start cranking the saturation slider and crushing the black levels. It looks like vomit on the screen. Such a far cry from the clean geometry of older games.


Here's an example of the same maps, but it kind of highlights the problem of the color and the over-designed geometry. The bottom one is cleaner and easier on the eyes. You can easily distinguish the geometry, while the top one is over-designed and harder to parse.

Completely agree. The older games has this clean, minimalist, simplistic geometry. Like smooth concrete with very subtle engraving and a "flat" look. Nothing shiny, reflective, or over designed. That was always the Halo "look" to me. It's been completely ruined in 4 and 5 and it ruins a lot of these maps.

Fortunately with Infinite 343 seems to be going back to the flat, clean, minimal geometry and art style. But I still really don't have any faith whatsoever that they can create new unique maps that rival what Halo 1-3 were delivering.
 

Cranster

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,788
The maps are my biggest issue with Halo 5's multiplayer. The gunplay is awesome but the maps are average at best with too many lines of sight and no actual variety due to a lack of interesting design choices and vehicle play.

Halo 2 still has peak map design in the franchise.
 

Gundam

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,801
That's what happens when the movement is completely changed. You can't get franchise staple maps that should be evergreen.

The one exception for me is Truth - I actually really don't like Midship, which is illegal to say, but it's probably my "favorite" Halo 5 map

they're not the worst though. Forgettable, but largely better than Halo 4's maps.
 
OP
OP
Maple

Maple

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,761
Map design peaked in Halo 2 and has slowly been getting less and less memorable with each new iteration. It's probably my biggest issue with Halo, and with each new game, I hope and hope that they surprise us with some well-designed maps.

Halo MP is probably my 2nd most played MP game of all time, but once you hit Reach, all of the maps start blending in together. It's a far cry from your Blood Gulch, Containment, Headlong, Lockout, Ivory Towers, Midship, Ascension, etc. They used to be well designed and visually distinct.

Man, Halo 2 was so memorable.

I agree. Although I feel like the CE maps were by far the most unique, but Halo 2 had some good ones and overall I wouldn't say it was a drop in quality. Halo 3 was definitely below 1-2 in terms of map designs, but it still gave us some really unique and fun maps.

4 and 5 have just been horrible when it comes to map design. Reverting back to the original art style will help some of these maps feel more like Halo again, but if the layout and design isn't there, then there's no point.

What happened to just a map that takes place on a beach, with a Forerunner structure, some vehicles, and some hideouts in the rocks for 4-12 players? They don't even make maps like this anymore. It's either something massive for the Warzone mode or it's some soulless smaller map with no vehicles, no asymmetry, no character and just nothing fun or unique about it - but don't worry, it will be "competitively viable".
 

Zombine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,231
Halo 4 has some dang good maps. Some of them could have been a little smaller, but they are miles better than all of that forge crap that Bungie threw at us with Reach.
 
OP
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Maple

Maple

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,761
That's what happens when the movement is completely changed. You can't get franchise staple maps that should be evergreen.

Is that really the problem though? How would sprint change classics like Hang 'Em High, Prisoner, Lockout, or others?

Even if movement went back to Halo 1/2/3, I really don't think 343 is capable of creating those types of maps. It's just a different mindset these days. That original team at Bungie was just bursting with creativity and innovation, and they made want they wanted to and what was fun. They weren't designing maps and tweaking them endlessly until some Pro player found them palatable.
 

Gundam

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,801
Is that really the problem though? How would sprint change classics like Hang 'Em High, Prisoner, Lockout, or others?

Even if movement went back to Halo 1/2/3, I really don't think 343 is capable of creating those types of maps. It's just a different mindset these days. That original team at Bungie was just bursting with creativity and innovation, and they made want they wanted to and what was fun. They weren't designing maps and tweaking them endlessly until some Pro player found them palatable.

uhhhh Play Halo 4's version of The Pit. It's one of the worst 4v4 maps in that game.
 

Sai

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,646
Chicago
Halo 5's aesthetic is truly awful.

Don't even get me started on how shit every single forge map looks regardless of how well it's designed.

Halo 2/3 were really the peak.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,857
Is that really the problem though? How would sprint change classics like Hang 'Em High, Prisoner, Lockout, or others?
Early ElDewrito (Halo Online builds) had sprint built into the game by default back in 2015-6. It heavily changed gameplay on classic Halo 3 maps way worse than you'd expect, it just became far faster to get kills and die on the map. Made the maps feel way smaller than they did previously.

For context, I have nothing against Halo 4/5's sprint. Just saying that it does change map design.
 

Gundam

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,801
You know? I think I somewhat take it back. Halo 4's The Pit is still atrocious, but I liked Haven and Adrift. I don't think in Halo 5 I was ever particularly happy to get a specific map unless I was happy that I didn't get a shitty remix map. Like do people really have an affinity for The Rig? They're all very bland maps.
 
Oct 31, 2017
3,797
This isn't exclusive to just Halo. Maps in general have taken a huge step back this gen. You're right, they're awful.
 

ItsBobbyDarin

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,905
Egyptian residing in Denmark
You know? I think I somewhat take it back. Halo 4's The Pit is still atrocious, but I liked Haven and Adrift. I don't think in Halo 5 I was ever particularly happy to get a specific map unless I was happy that I didn't get a shitty remix map. Like do people really have an affinity for The Rig? They're all very bland maps.
Again... Sprint. The reason for Put being so bad in H4.
 

GamerJM

Member
Nov 8, 2017
15,664
Halo 4 has some dang good maps. Some of them could have been a little smaller, but they are miles better than all of that forge crap that Bungie threw at us with Reach.

I agree with this, but 5's maps are pretty meh. Don't know what happened with 343 there, maybe this is just an unpopular opinion.
 

zoabs

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
May 7, 2018
1,675
I hate it so much. It started in 4, and then was even more prominently done in 5.

It doesn't even feel like Halo and it makes readability in many of the maps a pain.

I think Halo Reach started the trend. Boardwalk, Sword Base, Powerhouse, and all the gray forge maps they included in matchmaking. Even Countdown was bland.

I won't argue that Halo 4 and Halo 5 have bland map aesthetics for the most part but 343 definitely didn't start the trend.
 

Jawmuncher

Crisis Dino
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
38,564
Ibis Island
The custom lobbies kill me. So many maps, but none of them have an image nor recommend how many players they're for. So you can't even pick randomly.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,379
Canada
I don't really have a problem with any Halo 5 map, but none are particularly memorable. I feel like every Bungie-made map in the original trilogy had a lot personality to it. I hope Infinite can capture that magic again.

I will say, Halo 5 has my favourite gunplay of just about any console shooter, so 343 at least nailed that.
 

Defect

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,713
Most of the launch maps at least play way better than Reach and 4's

Maybe we can get trilogy tier maps if they you know, remove sprint.
 
Oct 28, 2019
442
I don't know how anyone enjoys anything when everything is terrible. Shout our to making definitive statements about something the first time you play it or off first impressions. It's amazing how maps can be made symetrical like 4v4 esports but yet also be confusing to navigate. Congratulations I guess you figured out something no one else could.
 

Deleted member 4260

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,630
Yeah they're not very good. Same goes for most maps since Reach. A lot of it comes from the addition of Sprint which has been said multiple times in this thread. Hopefully Sprint isn't in Infinite, but I'm thinking it might.
 

HiLife

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
39,744
They're pretty bad but a big part of it is due to gameplay mechanics. Like sprint.
 

EvilChameleon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,793
Ohio
I hit close to level 100 in Halo 5 MP. I couldn't name you a single map in that game that when it came up in the rotation, I got excited to play. Map variants were such an insult.
Also, hey, no 343 designed Big Team maps. Period. Ever. It's all Forge stuff.
 

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
Halo 5 maps are ok, but I agree, compared to 1-Reach they're not good, for me it's the art used in H5, with all the added sheen, over the top granular detail, all of it seems so overdone, it hurts the atmosphere of these arenas. Look at Halo 3 pit, you don't need containers with overdone grooves, inlets or surfaces with super detailed pattens on its cladding, it seems so tacky, like handing a junior designer some macros to use on Photoshop for the first time, end up with special effects everywhere.

Fortunately the teasers for Halo Infinite seems like they've ditched H5 terrible art style, hoping to see classic maps comeback with updated art in the spirit of old Halo.
 

LukasHeinzel

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
643
Stopped reading after the lame criticism of Halo 4 and the Story of 5, the Story and Style is miles ahead of 1-3.
 

Karateka

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,940
Halo went from the best maps in a shooter in 3 to average in reach to garbage tier in halo 4.
Not sure what happened to the level designers but they lost a lot of what made halo maps great imo
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,097
Sprint absolutely destroyed the franchise's map design.
Poor art direction didn't help either.
 

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
26,089
The originally made maps were bad and their different variants (something for which I will never understand why 343 ever did) were worse. After that, it seems most of Halo 5's later maps gravitated towards being made from forge, similar to the mistake Reach made.

Save for Haven, 343 has yet to prove to be as good as Bungo in map design during their heyday.
 
Jan 4, 2018
8,673
Covenant maps are excellent (maps like Truth, Regret and Mercy are gorgeous).

UNSC maps (and maybe Forerunner maps) are terrible because of that terrible, ugly and bland art style we've already seen in Halo 4.
 
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MysteryM

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,752
It's all true, I enjoy halo 5 a lot but the maps don't have the feeling thst the old ones did and it's down to sprint having changed the play dynamic. Also great maps like molten have been take out of rotation. Lots of good maps have been removed

A good example is sanctuary, an absolutely amazing h2a map, however ritual is a turd in comparison. The middle has been opened up too much for sprint, the strategy is just gone, the sword control of the middle section has been dumbed down with overlapping sword spawn timeouts and too many entrances. All in all it's the worst map ever when it should have been the best.

I do enjoy halo 5, but it's like it's a different game to h2a.
 
Oct 26, 2017
17,397
They pretty much all consist of three lanes, a middle "no man's land" zone, and then a circle you run around in and shoot people. There are a few that are a bit more asymmetrical and interesting, but even those are plagued with odd design choices and overall share the same issue that all maps have as being way too restrictive, tight, and vertical.

It's one of the big reasons I'm worried about Infinite, because although the game has a fantastic art direction so far, how will it play? I know Halo 5 has its fans, but no one I play MCC with has any interest in it and are only getting excited about Infinite because of MCC. It would be a mistake not to deviate course from 5's approach.
 

Devious

Member
Oct 31, 2017
436
California
Not a big fan of Halo's art direction since 343 took over. Sprint also sucks. My expectations for Infinite are as low as it can be. I'll just continue to rock with Halo 1-3 on MCC in the meantime.
 

Newman

Member
Oct 28, 2017
161
Halo 4 and 5 have such a trash art style and I think that is one of the biggest things that makes them unremarkable.
Haven was a great map and Skyline was pretty damn good too but that's about it.