I recently played Halo 5 for the first time and the multiplayer maps are absolutely horrible. What happened?

[DeliciousSunnyD!]

While I don't think Halo 5's map collection is either the strongest or the weakest in the series, I do think it has a few decent base maps, namely The Rig, Plaza, Coliseum, Empire, and Eden. I think all of these maps work pretty well in Slayer, but work best in Strongholds, the game's best mode (and I think it might be the best version of territories to ever exist in Halo and perhaps any FPS in general).

 

[Mr_DyZ]

Halo CE and 2 had some of the best map design in the franchise.

To me, just about every Halo 2 map was perfect. Even the less liked ones were still better than 90% of what we've gotten since. It's kind of mind blowing how good map design was in the earlier installments of the franchise.

 

[Mr_DyZ]

Stopped reading after the lame criticism of Halo 4 and the Story of 5, the Story and Style is miles ahead of 1-3.

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Then I guess everyone has stupid opinions, because while some people do like Halo 4, it's universally regarded as one of the worst overall packages in the series lol.

 

[DntSpwnOnMe]

What's funny is that 343i has already cracked the code to what a fun, modern Halo game can be, but they seem hesitant to embrace it. Mythic Slayer, which is now sadly gone, was the best Halo experience I've had since Halo 3, and could easily be the basis for my favorite Halo multiplayer to date. Guess we'll wait and see, but I think 343i's still too concerned with fitting into the mainstream to go through with this. Maybe it will at least be a fully supported optional mode in the future. If you didn't get a chance to play, here's a video that explains and shows it. I do think the mode could integrate clamber to make it a little bit more accessible so long as maps are designed around normal jumping and crouch-jumping.

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I really think infinite's MP will be based off of mythic arena play list. They know they got a winner there.

 

[Avenger]

They should constantly transfer halo2 maps into every iteration.

Same thing with MW2.

 

[SteviaRelievingYa]

Halo 5's mobility options make it play differently than other Halo titles, so the map design had to be changed. As someone who has played halo since 2001, I personally love Halo 5's multiplayer and there are plenty of great maps that suit its gameplay. I understand why people might prefer classic halo over halo 5, and I wouldn't mind a new halo with classic movement and next gen graphics, but I wholeheartedly disagree with the notion that halo 5's maps are badly designed. I feel this is just something that people who prefer classic halo's gameplay say. For Halo 5's gameplay, the maps are ace and 343i gave us like 30 something maps for free and they should be praised for doing so.

 

[VorpalNonsense]

Halo 1 Multiplayer Ambience: Hang 'Em High

Ambience audio from the iconic multiplayer map, Hang 'Em High, from Halo: Combat Evolved. This also plays during the '343 Guilty Spark' level in the Campaign...

www.youtube.com

Halo 1 Multiplayer Ambience: Sidewinder

Ambience audio from the multiplayer map, Sidewinder, from Halo: Combat Evolved.🎵 'Ambience Audio (Halo Series)' playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?l...

www.youtube.com

Even the ambient noises in these maps were mysterious, haunting, and hypnotic. It set the mood for the entire match and just gave each map even more character.

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I love the ambient sound of old Halo 1 maps. Full of so much damn mood. Just another thing about early halo maps that tickled my imagination.

 

[NippleViking]

That's frankly what I thought it seemed like. Corporations are full of jolly people but it's not the same as Bungie being a bunch of geeks holding beach volley parties together and sleeping on the development floor and spread around a large room trying to cram together Halo 2. It wasn't a very institutionalized environment because they were up and coming and it was the earlier days. 343i can't emulate that, they shouldn't try either, but they just aren't that and it's part of why Halo doesn't retain that spirit.

Now, level design, sure, it could've been better inside of any other corporate entity, but I would say what made Bungie as great as they were was that sense that they were people working together and talking together with practically zero siloing. 343i is much more of a boxed production with different disciplines kept apart and managed by producers.

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WTF is this post. It's almost like you're romanticising the absolute shitshow workaholic crunch culture of old Bungie.

If you want to point fingers at someone, don't point it at the hundreds of talented employees, many of whom have industry-leading skills and portfolios, and from the Halo 4 and 5 Vidocs/Sprint outright ooze passion and love for the franchise (why else would you work at 343i?). The problem has been boneheaded leaders who've completely misunderstood the appeal of OG Halo, and arguably MS rail-roading them into unreasonably short dev-cycles.

 

[Sordid Plebeian]

Ever since you posted that I've been reading about it and watching videos. I'm really starting to think this was a test of some of their systems and mechanics for Halo Infinite. Even the way it's described on Halo Waypoint sounds like it fits right in with the theme of Halo Infinite - "hybrid between new and old Halo experiences, evoking memories of the past while maintaining a modern feel in a fun and competitive setting".

They introduced this mode last December, and then took it away a few weeks later...which is definitely odd. That's exactly the kind of thing you do for a beta test or something.

If this mode had come out back in 2016 or 2017 and remained, then sure, it would seem to be an obvious attempt to please fans that don't like the abilities in H5 and want a return to classic Halo. But the way they put this out there and then took it down, this close to Infinite...I don't know. I really feel like this was something of a beta for them to test run speed, jump height, or other variables related to the map mechanics and gameplay.

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I was thinking that too but you never know with 343i. Back in 2017(?) they experimented with HCS setting that removed Charge and Ground Pound, so maybe they're just cutting all the nonsense out over time and using 5 as a testing ground.

 

[Kill3r7]

Halo CE and 2 had some of the best map design in the franchise.

To me, just about every Halo 2 map was perfect. Even the less liked ones were still better than 90% of what we've gotten since. It's kind of mind blowing how good map design was in the earlier installments of the franchise.

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Agreed. You could easily argue that was Bungie's best map design. Although I am fond of certain Destiny maps.

 

[Unleash the Flutes]

The maps mentioned in the op just wouldn't work in 5 because of sprint and clamber. I'm in the minority here but I enjoy the maps in 5 *shrugs*, Plaza and Coliseum are right up there with the other classic maps in the series for me.

 

[GUNDAM STARDUST]

I want some destructibility and shift changes in Halo Infinite. Allow some decisions that mix some things up during gameplay.

 

[Benjamin1981]

It's just not the maps. I played a lot of MCC in the last couple weeks and then this week H5 and the shooting and movement feels terrible. Didn't feel like at launch but in direct comparison it is obvious.

 

[Deleted member 17092]

Halo has been pretty meh if you ask me since halo reach.

I wanted 5 to be good but the gunplay is all wrong/floaty and the campaign didn't hook me at all. I tried some mp too. I dropped it a couple hours in. Was enough for me.

 

[LukasHeinzel]

Then I guess everyone has stupid opinions, because while some people do like Halo 4, it's universally regarded as one of the worst overall packages in the series lol.

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It's not universally regarded as bad, stop living in your weird bubble. It is seen as the game, where Halo finally steps out of the Foreshadowing stuff Bungie always did in 1-3 (and also teasing everything in Destiny for 7 years now and never answering the slightest question for anything, while also maintaining just bad storytelling). 343 not only build the universe, but also told an awesome story with better characters and a really cool protagonist. Plus the books, movies and so much more was just mindblowingly amazing.

 

[Asbsand]

WTF is this post. It's almost like you're romanticising the absolute shitshow workaholic crunch culture of old Bungie.

If you want to point fingers at someone, don't point it at the hundreds of talented employees, many of whom have industry-leading skills and portfolios, and from the Halo 4 and 5 Vidocs/Sprint outright ooze passion and love for the franchise (why else would you work at 343i?). The problem has been boneheaded leaders who've completely misunderstood the appeal of OG Halo, and arguably MS rail-roading them into unreasonably short dev-cycles.

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If anything I was glorifying the pre-2008 days of MS Bungie. Yeah they crunched, but the video docus portrayed them as a group of friends who did team building because they wanted to have fun and liberal approaches to recording sessions and game creativity. The point is nothing seemed institutionalized in Bungie's prime whereas 343i is a by-the-numbers corporate entity.

Bungie Anno Reach and Destiny is a different beast. They're the rebel-spirit developer turned corporate and I heard personal horror stories from Activision developers unfortunate enough to work with them (if they were granted access) on Destiny 2. Bungie is unrecognizable after Destiny. But before their late MS days they were full of spirit, something you just cannot say about 343i and its formulaic corporate image of white teeth and conglomerate approach.

 

[Deleted member 16908]

Because Halo 5 is a mess of a game. It was released with a positively skeletal level of content that didn't even remotely compare to what prior Halo titles launched with. After launch, they slowly added SOME of the content that should have been there day 1 over the next few years. A major portion of this content is Forge maps, either designed by 343 or taken from the community.

I really should have taken screenshots of day 1 Halo 5's gamemode/map list because it was absolutely dismal. It was like Slayer, Team Slayer and CTF. Such a disappointment.

I know at least some of the people at 343 must be passionate about Halo so I can't imagine they wanted to release it this way. I guess Microsoft must have been breathing down their neck super hard to get the game done for fall 2015.

 

[ThreepQuest64]

The legibility of the environment is greatly reduced and it's harder to parse everything visually.

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The curse of almost any modern (MP) game, I think, and not an unique Halo problem. However, you got a point in regards of visibility; no wonder devs implement (cheap) features like red name tags in many game such as BF and CoD. I still like to play without such features (hardcore in CoD, Hunt: Showdown) because everyone has to deal with it and I still want my games to look as good as possible. Then again, I'm not playing ultra-competitive. That's why I'd prefer the looks of early Rainbow Six Siege multiplayer footage, but I see why they went for the "flat lighting" they have now.

Anyways, without having played the map in any Halo game, I like the Halo 4 variant from the looks of it.

 

[Kill3r7]

Because Halo 5 is a mess of a game. It was released with a positively skeletal level of content that didn't even remotely compare to what prior Halo titles launched with. After launch, they slowly added SOME of the content that should have been there day 1 over the next few years. A major portion of this content is Forge maps, either designed by 343 or taken from the community.

I really should have taken screenshots of day 1 Halo 5's gamemode/map list because it was absolutely dismal. It was like Slayer, Team Slayer and CTF. Such a disappointment.

I know at least some of the people at 343 must be passionate about Halo so I can't imagine they wanted to release it this way. I guess Microsoft must have been breathing down their neck super hard to get the game done for fall 2015.

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IIRC, I don't believe CTF was there day one. It was one of the rotating game modes. That said, I think they tried to anticipate where the market was going and got it wrong. That said, you don't need 12 different game modes. You need to absolutely ace one or two of them. Yes some fans will complain about the lack of modes or their favorite mode being dropped but fundamentally if the gameplay is amazing people will tune in, see R6S.

Edit: Also, I don't see how Halo Infinite could come out without some sort of BR. That is where the main MP is currently at on consoles.

 

[Theorry]

Think Coliseum is pretty good.

 

[Deleted member 16908]

IIRC, I don't believe CTF was there day one. It was one of the rotating game modes. That said, I think they tried to anticipate where the market was going and got it wrong. You don't need 12 different game modes. You need to absolutely ace one or two of them. Yes some fans will complain about the lack of modes or their favorite mode being dropped but fundamentally if the gameplay is amazing people will tune in, see R6S.

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In my opinion Halo's strength has always been in its variety of modes. I never played Halo because its shooting was top-tier, I played it because it had small close-quarters maps, big open maps with fun vehicles, weird player-created maps and modes that felt totally different to play...

 

[Kill3r7]

In my opinion Halo's strength has always been in its variety of modes. I never played Halo because its shooting was top-tier, I played it because it had small close-quarters maps, big open maps with fun vehicles, weird player-created maps and modes that felt totally different to play...

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Halo's shooting was top tier. It was by far the best FPS to play on console until COD4.

 

[spootime]

Contrived is the word I have for most H5 multiplayer maps. H5 multiplayer was a huge improvement over 4 in the gameplay department, but map design still wasn't satisfactory to me.

Many of my favorite classic multiplayer maps were designed to feel like found spaces. There was a bit of story and mystery. Their layouts were often (not always) wrapped pretty well inside that veneer of narrative. The map had a history. It felt like the map layout and the "story" were designed hand in hand together. And that encouraged curiosity.

A lot of the maps in H5 just made me feel like...this really is a space that only exists for xbox players to toss flags around. It has no history, I'm not curious. Nothing here makes any sense as a physical space except to a map designer imagining player heatmaps. It's a busy claustrophobic mess of... stuff. Often uninteresting stuff.

The only launch Halo 5 map (excluding remakes) that I remember making me feel interested in the space was Fathom.
Maps like Eden and Plaza flow okay but as environments they're... cluttered messes. It's clear nobody lives or works there, it's just a holodeck simulation on the Infinity. The Rig's premise may justify its layout a little better but there's still nothing of interest in that environment.
Most of them are like someone came up with a layout first and later other people came in with a library of prefabricated furniture and dumped their entire catalogs into the space.

I think if they came up with a cool idea for an interesting space first and then massaged it into a playspace, it would result in much more memorable maps. Let unrestrained imagination come first, as it always should in art. But Halo 5 seemed to me like the only focus during that first design phase was the cold hard lines, and then it was someone else's job later to throw up wallpaper and props in a disconnected attempt to make it look like a map name. (However to be clear that's not based on any known facts about their design process, that's just how the designs feel to me.)
A map is ideally a little story in itself, not just endless industrial props inside a neat skybox.
(Torque's ring station idea was almost cool enough to make me forgive it for being another endless industrial trash level)

And don't even get me started on that Forge shit at launch and BTB getting totally shafted. I don't think I even need to explain the problems there. You already know.

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Ah man.. I remember reading halo 1 and 2 map lore blurbs and trying to imagine the history behind them

 

[Kill3r7]

Ah man.. I remember reading halo 1 and 2 map lore blurbs and trying to imagine the history behind them

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Bungie has always been good about map lore. See Twilight Gap in Destiny.

 

[Mr_DyZ]

It's not universally regarded as bad, stop living in your weird bubble. It is seen as the game, where Halo finally steps out of the Foreshadowing stuff Bungie always did in 1-3 (and also teasing everything in Destiny for 7 years now and never answering the slightest question for anything, while also maintaining just bad storytelling). 343 not only build the universe, but also told an awesome story with better characters and a really cool protagonist. Plus the books, movies and so much more was just mindblowingly amazing.

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It most certainly is.

I have no problems with 5 fwiw, but I still prefer any Bungie-made Halo. But 4 was awful as a complete package.

 

[Aswitch]

As someone who loves Halo 5's multiplayer right behind Halo 2. I'd have to disagree. I don't remember them, but I did enjoy the flow and vibe of them. So yes they don't compare to the original Halo trilogy maps, but I think they are decent at the least.

 

[calibos]

People here are fucking overly harsh on H4 and 5. Trashing developers work and shitting on artists work is damn juvenile in some of the posts in here.

People hang on to the clean art from the original, but fail to realize that most of what's changed is the tech allowing for more detail to be added. This has been a steady increase from Halo 1 through 5. It happens in tons of long running franchises.

If you give 3D artist the room and overhead to add more detail into an asset that is supposed to live in a real world, details are going to get added.

Halo 4 and 5 are miles beyond 1-3 in the modern age of shooters. My nostalgia is powerful for the basement split screen day's of Halo CE, but not so much to recognize and acknowledge evolution, passion and great shooters.

If Halo Infinite comes out with carbon copy art and mechanics of Halo 2 or 3 it would divebomb the franchise.

It only needs to do 2 things. Have a great story and keep evolving the multiplayer.

also. People saying H5 had no content at launch seem to forget about Warzone completely, which was an awesome new thing for Halo.

 

[Pancracio17]

Theres some winners in 5's maps, The Rig, Plaza, Coliseum, Torque, Empire and Truth is the best version of midship tbh. I think its just that they dont look very memorable, maybe in part due to the necessity of a more complex map since spartans have more complex movesets, but I think the visual design could be better.

Its not the worst the Halo series has had, not since Reach and 4 exist.

 

[IHaveIce]

Long time hardcore Halo fan here.

Reach was the start of the Downfall, Bungie created maps that didn't fit Halo's gameplay style at all anymore. Only Countdown of the launch maps was kinda used in real 4v4 competitive matches.

In Reach all maps existed also in the campaign sphere.. And it showed.

For other maps they introduced Forgeworld.. Say hello to hundreds of bad grey block maps brought into matchmaking.


Halo 4 brought mandatory sprint and 343's weird redesigns of Forerunner structure and even Human structure design. Those maps were not necessarily bad in a design sense but almost all were an eyesore because of the new design.

Sprint ruined remakes of old good maps and made BTB maps a weird inbetween.


Halo 5 launched completely without BTB maps... It also launches without Forge at the start.
The maps are again sooo weirdly designed. The artstyle is flat out boring and overdesigned nothing really screams classic halo, classic halo maps like midship get butchered thanks to sprint once again, truth bleeeh. Horrible.
DLC maps and Remix maps are kinda shit. 343 has lost what kinda works with their own new created gameplay.


Oh I forgot about Halo 2 Anniversary... Again weird artstyle.. And weird mapchoices... Relic getting in as the last dlc map was a joke to everybody.

 

[Shadow of the Void]

It's not just a different developer with different ideas on how to design maps.

Halo 5's maps absolutely had to be designed around every player having Spartan abilities and infinite sprint. The faster pace, the thruster packs, the ledge grabbing, even the sliding. Every aspect of the player's movement impacts map design (it also impacts weapon balance, which in turn may have further consequences for map design). If Halo 5 had been designed around classic-style movement, then the maps would have been designed very differently.

That's why I hope Halo Infinite is going back to the slower pace of the older games. Spartan abilities just don't mesh well with the core of Halo.

 

[LukasHeinzel]

It's not universally regarded as bad, stop living in your weird bubble. It is seen, where

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It most certainly is.

I have no problems with 5 fwiw, but I still prefer any Bungie-made Halo. But 4 was awful as a complete package.

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I vastly prefer 343 to Bungie, kook at the shit show of Destiny, they were never good storytellers. And Halo 4 is the best Halo ever made.

 

[RF Switch]

I can't deny the aesthetics of the maps being pretty boring in Halo 5 but their layouts are phenomenal imo

 

[theAllseeingEYE]

While I agree that the maps themselves are less memorable, that's more of an aesthetic thing, and I assume a limitation of their level design tools. I like the core art-style, but the maps look too samey/ lacking in visual character, and some of the free maps, even if they played amazing, looked kind of low-rent, as though they were built in forge.

As for multiplayer itself, it's easily a contender for best in the series in my opinion. I love the verticality that climbing adds, I've always wanted Halo to evolve into having running and aim-down-sights, so I very much like that addition, especially since it has such a perfect balance between ADS and hipfire, and plays like nothing else on the market. The guns feel amazing, and it has the best weapon selection in the entire series, nevermind a suite of excellent and ambitious game modes, bolstered by 2+ years of amazing post-launch content including the best Forge in the series, and finally...finally a server browser so we can play people's creations and mods without knowing them personally. Plus the game looks absolutely gorgeous on X1X.

 

[Deleted member 4761]

All the arena maps are great :)

 

[Merc]

You're right. Halo is known for its memorable maps. Spring and clamber killed the character of maps in online multiplayer. They were enlarged or looked like a monstrosity compared to previous Halos.

 

[Mr_DyZ]

I vastly prefer 343 to Bungie, kook at the shit show of Destiny, they were never good storytellers. And Halo 4 is the best Halo ever made.

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You might actually be trolling.

 

[MysteryM]

Long time Halo player and I honest don't know what that guy is talking about. They're pretty much one for one, although the second one may be a bit bigger to compensate sprint.

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The proportions are different from memory for sprint, and due to sprint the game plays differently. The tactful, strategic play of the halo 3 pit is gone and replaced with a free for all of Spartans running in all directions. Most of the remade maps have that, relic being another example when compared to sanctuary.

Not all halo 5 maps are bad, but halo 4 was a travisty.

 

[MysteryM]

There are a few maps in Halo 5 that I did enjoy and ultimately I think they are good maps overall.

Coliseum

Plaza

The Rig

Truth (not an original Halo 5 map but a nice remake)

Eden

The constant urban environment and structures are a legit complaint, though. Most of the DLC maps were also pretty bad, too.

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I play on these maps everyday and honestly some of those look like bull shots. Rising steam from a vent in plaza, where????

 

[OtterX]

This thread just makes me want to jump back into Halo 5 lol Really enjoyed my time with it.