It's there
That'll teach me for not refreshing. Thanks.
May as well turn this into something feel good and related that might be news to people - did you know trans women can breastfeed?
Christ just reading this thread from the start now is such a reminder how weak cis allyship goes. And this goes hand-in-hand with Rainn's knee-jerk comment that started it - because yeah he's a "progressive ally" but that doesn't mean he can't possibly hold gross perspective against trans people anymore. It's not a binary switch to become an "ally" and all of a sudden you can do no wrong, as literally any trans person can tell you from having people in our lives who are yes for the most part supportive but very much still can show their asses through ignorance.
All the damn condescension going on about reading the tweet the way Rainns himself now confirms he did in fact mean when he originally posted it. "But oh no he's supportive he couldn't possibly be mean to trans people!" Congrats y'all were wrong, that's not how it works and people need to learn that for already ffs. Same thing goes with racism fyi, just because you're not a klanner doesn't mean you can't still have racist impulses.
I'm happy with the apology, it's exactly what's needed but good god am I ever disappointed at all the other people leaping to his defense, as always celeb worship matters so much more than allyship.
So you're mad because we wanted to wait for clarification instead of instantly crucifying him? :/Christ just reading this thread from the start now is such a reminder how weak cis allyship goes. And this goes hand-in-hand with Rainn's knee-jerk comment that started it - because yeah he's a "progressive ally" but that doesn't mean he can't possibly hold gross perspectives against trans people anymore. It's not a binary switch to become an "ally" and all of a sudden you can do no wrong, as literally any trans person can tell you from having people in our lives who are yes for the most part supportive but very much still can show their asses through ignorance.
All the damn condescension going on about reading the tweet the way Rainns himself now confirms he did in fact mean when he originally posted it. "But oh no he's supportive he couldn't possibly be mean to trans people!" Congrats y'all were wrong, that's not how it works and people need to learn that already ffs. Same thing goes with racism fyi, just because you're not a klanner doesn't mean you can't still have racist impulses.
I'm happy with the apology, it's exactly what's needed but good god am I ever disappointed at all the other people leaping to his defense, as always celeb worship matters so much more than allyship.
Amazing to make yourself the victim here, cool cool. I don't know who you even are but congrats.As a person who wanted to believe he didn't mean it the way he did, I feel like this is addressed to me, and I want to tell you it had nothing to do with my reverence for him as an actor or person. So yes, I was wrong, but I will not apologize for waiting to see what he meant or how he meant it before throwing him under the goddamn bus immediately without proper context and clarification. It's a tweet, we're on the internet, tone and intent are not so easy to discern and he had a good enough track record to at least see what he meant. Please do not belittle my own advocacy and efforts simply because I was wrong.
Underline this statement from me right now.So you're mad because we wanted to wait for clarification instead of instantly crucifying him? :/
Christ just reading this thread from the start now is such a reminder how weak cis allyship goes. And this goes hand-in-hand with Rainn's knee-jerk comment that started it - because yeah he's a "progressive ally" but that doesn't mean he can't possibly hold gross perspective against trans people anymore. It's not a binary switch to become an "ally" and all of a sudden you can do no wrong, as literally any trans person can tell you from having people in our lives who are yes for the most part supportive but very much still can show their asses through ignorance.
All the damn condescension going on about reading the tweet the way Rainns himself now confirms he did in fact mean when he originally posted it. "But oh no he's supportive he couldn't possibly be mean to trans people!" Congrats y'all were wrong, that's not how it works and people need to learn that for already ffs. Same thing goes with racism fyi, just because you're not a klanner doesn't mean you can't still have racist impulses.
I'm happy with the apology, it's exactly what's needed but good god am I ever disappointed at all the other people leaping to his defense, as always celeb worship matters so much more than allyship.
Amazing to make yourself the victim here, cool cool. I don't know who you even are but congrats.
I reiterate that cis allies are fucking useless.
Yeah I throw stones at weak-ass allyship. Transphobia is a fucking cancer tearing down our lives on the daily and I'm not just gonna let y'all pat yourselves on the back with an apology with no refection.And your post, was it not volatile in nature? Was it not calling people in the thread such as myself out? Did you post simply just to post or did you want a response? Perhaps only one you were happy with? You threw stones.
They rightly called people out. You should listen tbh.And your post, was it not volatile in nature? Was it not calling people in the thread such as myself out? Did you post simply just to post or did you want a response? Perhaps only one you were happy with? You threw stones.
Absolutely right.Yeah I throw stones at weak-ass allyship. Transphobia is a fucking cancer tearing down our lives on the daily and I'm not just gonna let y'all pat yourselves on the back with an apology with no refection.
Do you think trans folks don't have a right to be annoyed with the condescension that happened here? If you weren't being an ass then you're not being targeted.And your post, was it not volatile in nature? Was it not calling people in the thread such as myself out? Did you post simply just to post or did you want a response? Perhaps only one you were happy with? You threw stones.
His apology was for tweeting out something that was adding to transphobic narratives.So his apology is basically "I'm not a transphobe cause I have trans friends."
I think there's a difference between folks saying "he can't be transphobic, he's progressive!" and folks saying huh, this seems out of character, let's see the follow-up. Both happened here for sure. But the latter is generative. It's part of how we get to better discourse.Christ just reading this thread from the start now is such a reminder how weak cis allyship goes. And this goes hand-in-hand with Rainn's knee-jerk comment that started it - because yeah he's a "progressive ally" but that doesn't mean he can't possibly hold gross perspectives against trans people anymore. It's not a binary switch to become an "ally" and all of a sudden you can do no wrong, as literally any trans person can tell you from having people in our lives who are yes for the most part supportive but very much still can show their asses through ignorance.
All the damn condescension going on about reading the tweet the way Rainns himself now confirms he did in fact mean when he originally posted it. "But oh no he's supportive he couldn't possibly be mean to trans people!" Congrats y'all were wrong, that's not how it works and people need to learn that already ffs. Same thing goes with racism fyi, just because you're not a klanner doesn't mean you can't still have racist impulses.
I'm happy with the apology, it's exactly what's needed but good god am I ever disappointed at all the other people leaping to his defense, as always celeb worship matters so much more than allyship.
He took ownership of his mistake and apologized for it.So his apology is basically "I'm not a transphobe cause I have trans friends."
So his apology is basically "I'm not a transphobe cause I have trans friends."
Do you think trans folks don't have a right to be annoyed with the condescension that happened here? If you weren't being an ass then you're not being targeted.
I think there's a difference between folks saying "he can't be transphobic, he's progressive!" and folks saying huh, this seems out of character, let's see the follow-up. Both happened here for sure. But the latter is generative. It's part of how we get to better discourse.
Have not read his second tweet.Genuine question - how did you arrive at that interpretation after reading his second tweet?
- He acknowledged that what he said was a mean comment/joke
- He spoke to trans friends to get clarity and education (this is good, no?)
- He clarified the impact (contributing to meanness and misinformation)
- He apologized
Is it? I mean he said he talked to them to learn and understand what he did was wrong and apologized. I don't know what else he could have done. It'd probably be the first thing I'd do if I spoke out of ignorance and was called out on it. Everyone should talk to more trans people, why is he being shamed for this?So his apology is basically "I'm not a transphobe cause I have trans friends."
What second tweet? All I see is the by-the-numbers apology. Doesn't sound genuine to me.Genuine question - how did you arrive at that interpretation after reading his second tweet?
- He acknowledged that what he said was a mean comment/joke
- He spoke to trans friends to get clarity and education (this is good, no?)
- He clarified the impact (contributing to meanness and misinformation)
- He apologized
We're talking about the same tweet. The first tweet was the bad one - the second one was the clarification.Have not read his second tweet.
The one I read basically said that he was told by his Trans friends that what he wrote was wrong, and the rest was "I educated myself" spiel that goes with all apologies of this nature.
How about explaining what he learned? And the reason why his tweet was wrong and mean?We're talking about the same tweet. The first tweet was the bad one - the second one was the clarification.
Before I continue, I will say that I was someone on the fence yesterday about how his tweet was to be interpreted, i.e. I gave him the benefit of the doubt and then he ended up being in the wrong. I see that.
That being said, how would you change his tweet to be a more genuine apology? Or is there no way for him to recover from his initial Tweet?
He made a mistake. He apologized for that mistake. Hopefully the end result is he is a better person for it.So his apology is basically "I'm not a transphobe cause I have trans friends."
That's fair. I wouldn't hold my breath that he's going to go into that level of detail but that would definitely add more value to his follow-up Tweet.How about explaining what he learned? And the reason why his tweet was wrong and mean?
I agree with this completely. But also curious if it works in reverse? Being good in some aspects doesn't wash away the bad. But does the bad wash away the good? Asking in good faith because morality is something that fascinates me.A person can be both progressive on some issue but be a total bag of noxious excrement on another. The "good" part doesn't wash away the other disgusting mess IMO.