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Ashodin

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,705
Durham, NC
www.ign.com

Exclusive: Final Fantasy 16’s Developers Open Up About Game of Thrones Comparisons, Sidequests, and Representation - IGN

In an exclusive interview with IGN, four members of Final Fantasy 16's development team come together to talk about topics ranging from being the first M-rated Final Fantasy to representation for people of color in its world.

IGN: In regards to diversity in the game, can we expect to see Black characters in Final Fantasy XVI, or people of color (non-white characters) in general? To clarify a bit more, there's been discussion around the trailers to date featuring mostly white characters, and I wanted to get clarity on whether we can expect the final game to be more diverse.
Yoshi-P:
...

Our design concept from the earliest stages of development has always heavily featured medieval Europe, incorporating historical, cultural, political, and anthropological standards that were prevalent at the time. When deciding on a setting that was best suited to the story we wanted to tell—the story of a land beset by the Blight—we felt that rather than create something on a global scale, it was necessary to limit the scope it to a single landmass — one geographically and culturally isolated from the rest of the world in an age without airplanes, television, or telephones.

Due to the underlying geographical, technological, and geopolitical constraints of this setting, Valisthea was never going to realistically be as diverse as say a modern-day Earth...or even Final Fantasy XIV that has an entire planet (and moon) worth of nations, races, and cultures at its disposal. The isolated nature of this realm, however, does end up playing a large part in the story and is one of the reasons Valisthea's fate is tied to the rest of the world.

...

In the end, we simply want the focus to be less on the outward appearance of our characters and more on who they are as people—people who are complex and diverse in their natures, backgrounds, beliefs, personalities, and motivations. People whose stories we can resonate with. There is diversity in Valisthea. Diversity that, while not all-encompassing, is synergistic with the setting we've created and is true to the inspirations from which we are drawing.

Full response at the site, but it's not much better

To me, this sounds like an elaborate dodge of the question. The locations they've shown in the trailer are pretty diverse and different. They could've included more diverse people to their settings if they wanted to.

Not to mention the question asked was a straightforward "will there be black people" and we got several paragraphs.
 
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platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,075
Yeah this is a trash response. this game aint any kind of historical representation it has fucking Kaiju sized monsters and magic. It's so stupid.
 

StraySheep

It's Pronounced "Aerith"
Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,319
Even if you think his answer is shit I don't think the way it is phrased or the length of it suggests he is dodging the question.
 

Izanagi89

"This guy are sick" and Corrupted by Vengeance
Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,844
I always hate these kinds of reasonings especially when your game has giant dragon summons and Chocobos. But POC is just too far 🙄 It never, ever makes sense to me. Disappointing.
 

AgeEighty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,595
Come on Yoshi-P, it's a fantasy world. Race doesn't have to be tied 1:1 to geography in a fantasy setting, so you can have people of various different morphologies even on a small, isolated continent. It may not make perfect biological sense, but I don't think anybody really cares about that very much. This is not a case where you want painstaking faithfulness to real world historical precedent.
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,075
I always hate these kinds of reasonings especially when your game has giant dragon summons and Chocobos. But POC is just too far 🙄 It never, ever makes sense to me. Disappointing.
Exactly like you can represent something adjacent to those times. But it's a terrible excuse for anything that remotely has fantasy elements.
 

tjh282

Member
May 29, 2019
480
I'm still going to buy the game and likely enjoy it, but just can't accept that line of reasoning for lack of diversity in a fantasy setting. Would've been better they didn't address it at all as opposed to whatever the explanation was
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,134
Our design concept from the earliest stages of development has always heavily featured medieval Europe, incorporating historical, cultural, political, and anthropological standards that were prevalent at the time.

Final Fantasy XVI is an action role-playing game set in the fantasy world of Valisthea, where the people live in peace and prosperity thanks to mountains of crystal called the Mothercrystals. The world is controlled by six factions: the Grand Duchy of Rosaria, the Holy Empire of Sanbreque, the Kingdom of Waloed, the Dhalmekian Republic, the Iron Kingdom, and the Crystalline Dominion. A central part of the plot are the Eikons, summoned monsters controlled by or manifesting through humans called Dominants.[1]

I remember the mountains of crystals and summoned monsters from European history too.
 

YaBish

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,347
To me, this sounds like an elaborate dodge of the question. The locations they've shown in the trailer are pretty diverse and different.
I agree. I was under the impression that the game world was pretty diverse and was expecting proportionate representation.
 

SpottieO

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,664
That's dog shit, here's Josh Sawyer explaining why you'll find an Ethiopian character in his 16th century Bavarian murder mystery.

Kiersau Abbey and Tassing, the nearby village, are located in a fairly remote area—but they're also on a trade route. "There were these big trade routes that would go over the Alps, the Imperial Way, and this means the abbey is adjacent to these major conflicts," says Sawyer. "So there's a lot of traffic that comes through, a lot of visitors, which means you can meet people who aren't just Germans. There's an Ethiopian character, for example. Ethiopians were at the Council of Constance a hundred years before the game takes place and they were able to travel within this realm. There's just a lot going on in this time period."
 

Plinkerton

Member
Nov 4, 2017
6,085
Jeez that's poor. Trying to play up the "realism" angle when the game is literally called Final Fantasy really is a poor look (before even getting to how nonsense the realism thing is anyway).

Also going on damage control in the first paragraph before even giving his answer really doesn't look great either.
 

PixelGengar

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17
Yeah, I'm a big fan of Yoshi-P's work but this answer sucks. Definitely comes across as him avoiding the question which is very concerning. Especially the section about historical, cultural, political and anthropological standards. The idea that medieval Europe didn't have people of colour participating within society is racist bullshit and it's horrible that he's effectively perpetuating that idea here.
 

FeenixRisen

McDonalds looks really average next to Wendys
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,493
I wish I could be shocked but the horrid choices for black hairstyles in FFXIV makes not it surprising
 

Lotus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
106,560
It's stuff like this that reminds me it's a miracle we're getting a black lead in Forspoken
 

Deleted member 511

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,676
Terrible answer. You can have people turning into giant fucking dragons and fire birds but having brown and black people are unrealistic for the setting? Fuck off!

Even if you think his answer is shit I don't think the way it is phrased or the length of it suggests he is dodging the question.
Dude has been asked about this in XIV; as well as why one character who was noticeable brown has been getting lighter which each expression. He's just using a lot of words to explain a think that's been repeatedly happening in his games. Endwalker was better with darker npcs but XIV's still terrible at it.
 

Helix

Mayor of Clown Town
Member
Jun 8, 2019
24,040
This is really fucking disappointing, they made somewhat decent strides in XIV and XVI last I checked is still a fantasy game. Sure, its okay to be inspired by real world cultures and demographics but when even real world history shows that people of color used to be present in the periods the game drew inspiration from and yet your game seems to actively lack that....it's definitely off-putting.
 

iRAWRasaurus

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,729
A simply yes or no is all that's required. Instead it's a long worded answer for no.
 

Raigor

Member
May 14, 2020
15,190
it's pathetic how Skyrim, releaased in 2011 has more diversity than other RPGs released in recent years based on the ""same" or "close" setting; TW3, Kingdom Come Deliverance and now FFXVI.
 

kimbo99

Member
Feb 21, 2021
4,813
Gaming, like any form of media, is open to creativity and does not need to be historically accurate to a "T".

But let me take it a step further....the game is literally called "Final Fantasy"!!!!!! Let the choir sing.
 

Zaied

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,588
That makes it sound like every previous Final Fantasy that wasn't 'medieval Europe inspired' was full of black characters.
 

Kalor

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,671
You can still have an isolated culture that's diverse because it's a made-up world, nevermind that history is usually more diverse than it seems. And the main cast with eikons seems to only have one woman so even on that front they aren't doing much. Not that I would expect much from the HW writer.
 

AuthenticM

Son Altesse Sérénissime
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,379
did he seriously go with a thermian argument. Dude, you created that world. There was no obligation to create a continent that was just white people. Get the hell outta here.
 

Atom

Member
Jul 25, 2021
11,676
Wow that uh...sucks.

If you were trying to make a super historical game i could maaaaybe buy the excuse but even then it would be sus. And even then afaik poc were still present in many of those settings to some degree.

When you have the big crystal and flaming children birds and shit there's no excuse why people with different skin colors and the like can't exist too.

It feels weirdly like Matsuno in that sense I guess. Do black people or other PoC exist in his games? I've only played TO and most of XII but recall basically none, at least in major roles.

The greatest fantasy of all: melanin.
 

Deleted member 56266

Account closed at user request
Banned
Apr 25, 2019
7,291
Isn't Hugo Kupka Brown or Black? Off the top of my head his skin tone is darker than the rest of the cast, no?

edit: he looks brown on the official site art compared to the others.
 

Rowsdower

Shinra Employee of The Wise Ones
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,883
Canada
Like others said, that's a terrible answer.

It's a fantasy game! There's people turning into monsters and giant chickens and magic! So what if it's based on medieval Europe? There can be non-white people too.
 

Skittles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,299
They're incredibly shit researchers cause black and brown people have been in europe for a long ass time lmfao.
 

Urban Scholar

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,603
Florida
Chile that's a bunch (and I mean A LOT) of words for based on our biases Mediveal Europe is just shades of white people.

Black and Brown people? LMAO.

Everytime I think I've seen or heard all the excuse for no darkies over here, someone always 1 ups the excuses.

There's whole studies dedicated to us living everywhere I'm the world but sure. Keep your RPG painfully melanin free
 

Thera

Banned
Feb 28, 2019
12,876
France
Yeah this is a trash response. this game aint any kind of historical representation it has fucking Kaiju sized monsters and magic. It's so stupid.
Even so.
There was PoC in medieval Europe. A lot.
It's a total misconception because most history books or "legend" ones was made by white people or christian ones.
And of course the movie industry had no problem continuing this trend because of racism.
 

MarcelloF

"This guy are sick"
Member
Dec 9, 2020
7,545
It's basically the same dumb shit CD Projekt Red said with Witcher 3, right? I recall plenty of dumbasses lapping it up, too.

People say it's fantasy, so it shouldn't matter, but even if it wasn't, who gives a shit. It's not real life, you can put non-white people in you're historical stories even when there weren't in real life.
 

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,075
Even so.
There was PoC in medieval Europe. A lot.
It's a total misconception because most history books or "legend" ones was made by white people or christian ones.
And of course the movie industry had no problem continuing this trend because of racism.
Absolutely there is a massive whitewashing and the world during those times are far far more connected than they want to believe. Like look at a fucking map and you see people could easily cross to Spain via Gibraltar or through the Middle East and turkey.
 

vixolus

Prophet of Truth
Member
Sep 22, 2020
55,821
If Square wants to make more globally appealing games because they're broke and busted, might need to reconsider that pov yoshi.
 

StraySheep

It's Pronounced "Aerith"
Member
Oct 26, 2017
8,319
This argument must mean that they are setting us up for an all black sequel within the same world.
 
Oct 30, 2017
15,278
Ain't like the world-building can't include characters who are PoC. Like...just drop them in there. What is so hard about that? It took more work coming up with that answer than it would have been to just include more diverse characters.
 

Kalentan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,995
They should had just admitted to being inspired by fantasy Europe in various other influential media works that either simply take place in Europe or Europe-like settings have mostly been overwhelmingly white. Like let's all be real, that's why this stuff happens. It's not because of an actual historical research.

Trying to say it's more realistic to the time period (despite the game literally taking place in a fantasy setting), will never hold up to any scrutiny.

It's a disappointing answer and unfortunately considering I'm assuming it's too late to do any course correction that at the very least they hear the criticism and you know, actually do better in FFXIV (which to an extent they have done better in Endwalker but even still, who knows if that will last into the next expansion) and any other future titles they do.