Nintendo's problems have been made clear over and over again. Not every consumer has the responsibility of talking to them like their six.
Venting about this is fine.
I'm getting fed up with Nintendo's multiplayer this generation, local and online alike
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Venting about this is fine.
Well, the card games that require hidden hands can be played using 4 Switches, and we only need one copy of the game. So that's cool.
But I agree with you on everything else. I play a lot Online, and I was mortified when I found out that Texas Hold'em online only had 5 rounds.
Lots of options are missing even in single-player, but I don't have much hope that they will improve this through a patch, because the Mario Party team never updates their games.
And Nintendo really should get rid of that damn voice-chat using the phone app, and implement it in-game, like Fortnite does.
I agree with you in the sense of this discussion. If everyone just bitching there is none tho.
It's hard to vote with my wallet if i have a problem with issue x but most ppl don't care. So in that case going on Twitter and moan about it might actually change something.
Everyone bitched about psn for years but it wasn't just customers it was outlets too. I think that's the only way that nintendo will change something. Shit ton of negative PR like Sony got for years.
1. The friend code issue I never really got. It was bad in the DS days when you had to add them for each game. But now you just need to add it once and that is pretty much it. Beyond that you can add people locally, through FaceBook/Twitter, from 3DS/Wii U, and through Nintendo Account if you played with them in the mobile games.
2. I am on the side that believes one should not pay for Peer-to-Peer online. In that sense I do not agree with paying for either Nintendo or Sony, at least when it comes to the actual online play element. The nature of the Switch (portable) combined with peer-to-peer network can result in issues in games like Smash. There will be a mix of people playing on unreliable wifi networks who drag down the experience for people who are playing wired. I think they should add a mandatory wired mode for some of their online games. Certainly when I play Smash with friends, we all connect and play through a wired connection and the system is largely stable.
3. You are literally paying $20 a year. They are not going to give you deep discounts. I feel the occasional exclusives (like Tetris 99), online classics (I would be willing to pay more for a more extensive backlog of consoles as well as the option to outright purchase those games), game trials, and game vouchers are fairly worth it for that price at least when it comes to the eShop.
4. I fully agree with you on Miiverse and by extension having the chat system locked behind a mobile app. They should have expanded Miiverse and added system wide voice chat. They have added an invite system (finally!) but very few games actually use them. These are the aspects of the paid Switch online that annoy me the most.
5. Save cloud works for the majority of games. 90% of things I need backed up, do get backed up. The hold overs are the Pokemon games, Splatoon 2, and Animal Crossing (which is getting some sort of server side backup later this year). I can see why these games don't support cloud backups given the higher potential for cheating that can impact others playing the game. However, Nintendo needs to and can offer a server side backup system for these games. In fact, Camelot has already implemented such a system in Mario Tennis Aces, so Nintendo ought to implement a similar system for games that are not a good fit for traditional cloud saves.
Saying something is a problem over and over, but offering no opinion on how to fix it isn't going to make the problem better. Far too often, people bring up the same talking points regarding Nintendo online, yet they don't suggest any method in which it could be improve other than the one dimensional "copy Xbox Live".
The difference is that people actually offered SOLUTIONS and IDEAS on how to fix things, which gave Sony a framework to work with. Nintendo fans just keep complaining about NSO, yet they offer no ideas or thoughts on how to improve things, thus Nintendo has no framework in which to make improvements. You can't please everyone and I get it, but the best the company can do is come to a compromise that most people can accept.
Really, that's what I want to see improved with NSO, I want fans and Nintendo to come to a compromise on the problems and address them in a way that both sides are happy.
Nintendo fans are venting because they know that Nintendo isn't listening at all. People have been asking for folders for 3 years.
And why exactly can't they copy what works? They are not unique. Everyone copies each other just like they did with the app and paid online.
Why are you even defending them even?
If you hate people complaining then skip the thread.
Their multiplayer design is insane sometimes.
Super Mario 3D World would have been a blast in multiplayer, but since they put run and pick someone up on the same button, it's impossible to play. You are constantly running into people and picking them up, destroying the flow of the game.
Mario Kart - can't think of the last time we had a Battle Mode that just had balloons. No respawning, no new balloons, no timer. They stripped one of the best things of SMK and MK64 of any tension. No tactics anymore just chaos.
The way you have to activate the alternate control scheme in NSMB Deluxe is also insane. Having to drop a Konami code to get there on the main menu but no option at all... I just don't get them.
And it's only so frustrating because the rest of the games are usually so good! The way they are stuck in another time with multiplayer and options is the same way they get to come up with these great games. It often feels like they don't know the industry and develop in a vacuum. I know that's not the case, but it often feels like that anyway.
Super Mario 3D World would have been a blast in multiplayer, but since they put run and pick someone up on the same button, it's impossible to play. You are constantly running into people and picking them up, destroying the flow of the game.
Mario Kart - can't think of the last time we had a Battle Mode that just had balloons. No respawning, no new balloons, no timer. They stripped one of the best things of SMK and MK64 of any tension. No tactics anymore just chaos.
The way you have to activate the alternate control scheme in NSMB Deluxe is also insane. Having to drop a Konami code to get there on the main menu but no option at all... I just don't get them.
And it's only so frustrating because the rest of the games are usually so good! The way they are stuck in another time with multiplayer and options is the same way they get to come up with these great games. It often feels like they don't know the industry and develop in a vacuum. I know that's not the case, but it often feels like that anyway.
People complained that playing with friends should've been available for Super Mario Maker 2, and low and behold they got it. They even added Join Game functionality, one of the things people have been begging for. There's still a lot more to do, but arguing "they're not listening at all" is a lie.
Do you people even read!? I never said they shouldn't copy what works. What I said was that they shouldn't just make a one dimensional clone with nothing to set itself apart in a good way. Copy the basics sure, but come up with your own ideas as well.
And I'm not even defending them. I'm just pointing out the problems in fans who are complaining about NSO.
What exactly have they done that made Switch online better?
I would bet most people would have been fine with a copy service. Especially cause it is way superior compared to what ever we have now.
But you know what? It doesn't matter. You are getting angry over people complaining about a service they want to be better. I don't want to waste anymore energy arguing cause it clearly won't get a resolution.
Shoutout to Mario Tennis Aces which didn't let you group up with a friend to play doubles at launch. Sometimes you take the basics for granted and then play a nintendo game online and realize if you don't research it all beforehand something like that will happen.
Have you tried SMM2 multiplayer? They took a basic function out that most people took for granted, people complained, they put it back saying "oh, is that really a thing people want in this futuristic year of 2019?", and made it absolutely unsable.
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* Added Join Game Functionality
* Introduced Free Games like Tetris 99
* Rolled out Game Trials for full games
* Added SNES games after people were tired of NES games for a year
Things are still far from perfect, but let's not pretend things aren't moving, however slow it may be.
Sure, they'd be fine with it, but they would love it even more if they introduce things that they didn't even know they wanted. Achievements for Xbox Live weren't aped from some other service when they were introduced. They were a creative and fun feature that people resonated with. That's what Nintendo should be doing, copying what Sony and Microsoft are doing right, but add their own unique ideas to it as well, that the other 2 can also copy. You said everybody copies each other, but if nobody's coming up with ideas, then there's no copying.
This is what I mean when I say, Nintendo fans don't offer any actual solutions to the problems. They just keep saying "Copy XBox" with no thought behind it, like they've been trained to say that by the echo-chamber.
You can't take out what wasn't there to begin with, LOL. It's a laughable oversight, but it's not a malicious scheme.
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the OP provided several valid issues with local multiplayer. To just hand wave them away without responding to a single one is pretty lame.
He only gave 2 actual examples, (Yoshi and Pokemon Let's Go!) and that's not indicative of any real trend with local multiplayer. It's one thing to criticize a game's implementation of multiplayer, but that's not any real trend of local multiplayer being bad on Switch.
I personally gotta disagree on local. That's very much dependent on what games you play. 8 player Smash that lets me use GameCube controllers is still magical even after playing Smash 4, and games like Mario Kart still work great with 4 people. In a time when Microsoft didn't have split screen co-op or multiplayer in Halo 5 and the PS4's OS makes hosting fight game tournaments a pain I'd say Nintendo is still going strong.
You're right about the online though. That shit is still horrible and Nintendo should be ashamed for charging for it. Technically they all should, but Nintendo especially as PSN and XBL at least are on par with what you get on PC.
You're right about the online though. That shit is still horrible and Nintendo should be ashamed for charging for it. Technically they all should, but Nintendo especially as PSN and XBL at least are on par with what you get on PC.
Man, you're sure spending a lot of time ttrying to shut down such a useless thread or whatever.
Sorry, I don't have "new material" to offer, or "solutions" (how about Nintendo do their fucking jobs and come up with some) but they absolutely deserve to be shat on until they do better.
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I actually provided more examples. Odyssey's co-op always sounded redundant but it's really lame. 51 Worldwide games has a whopping 3 out of 51 games that allow more than 2 players. Those are important issues for my use of the console, personally. Then there's Animal Crossing's whole "one island per Switch, one owner per island" thing that turns your adventure handicapped, even in single player if you just turn on the game with your profile after somebody else did their island already.
This isn't coming from a place of hate, and I also don't understand what you're getting at with "what solutions do you propose". I'm not saying "be Xbox Live". I'm just suggesting they should... you know, offer features that in many times were present in prior installments? Multiplayer components on par with the franchise or the year 2020? I still believe I got my money worth from the games I listed, this isn't even a "boo these games suck" thread. But every single time me and my fiancé or me and some buddies get together to play something on the Switch, something just hampers all that. Be that awkward options to set up different controllers if they're already tied to a different Switch, or the aforementioned lack of features or odd design choices.
Again, I spent a lot of time and money on Switch, and while I am a bit worried about the future of the console in terms of personal tastes (of the announced Nintendo exclusives so far there's like one game I plan to buy, maybe not even day 1), I got my money worth with it so far, despite other grieveances I have with it (like I also have with Xbox One, PC, PlayStation 3, Nintendo 3DS and any other system I own). I just wish Nintendo would put more effort into delivering solid multiplayer experiences, because far too often there's some arbitrary limitations that deny me exactly that. For a console that spent so much time advertising its design as one to bring around to play with friends on rooftops and trains, there's actually tons of unexpected hurdles to overcome. And it's becoming a bit tiring to look forward to games or buying them, only to find out the fine print that says "well what you wanna do can't really be done because of reasons".
It's terrible, has been terrible for to long now to be given a pass, and by the looks of it will remain terrible since I don't see them ever trying to improve anything.
The biggest problem is like you said yourself, the defense force always comes out in droves, I'd argue it's not even anything having to do with fanboys or console wars, just people who are okay with the bear minimum as if the platform isn't competing with anything else for our time and attention.
The whole Nintendo saying and vibe around the company about how they're "in their own world not competing with Sony or Microsoft " is the biggest issue.
The biggest problem is like you said yourself, the defense force always comes out in droves, I'd argue it's not even anything having to do with fanboys or console wars, just people who are okay with the bear minimum as if the platform isn't competing with anything else for our time and attention.
The whole Nintendo saying and vibe around the company about how they're "in their own world not competing with Sony or Microsoft " is the biggest issue.
Nintendo went from having several apps and channels (News, Weather, Miis, browser, etc.) on the Wii/DS to a more limited, but polished apps like MiiVerse and Streetpass on WiiU/3DS to nothing on Switch, even with it being the only paid online. Sure they've added cloud saving, but what's the point if the games people actually want cloud saves for (Splatoon, Pokemon, Animal Crossing) don't have it? Really dissappointing trend overall.
A lot of Nintendo game's online offering this generation have been great games with one or two really baffling design choices that hamper the overall experience.Hopefully with online gaming only getting more prevalent as time goes on, Nintendo starts reversing some of these trends.
A lot of Nintendo game's online offering this generation have been great games with one or two really baffling design choices that hamper the overall experience.Hopefully with online gaming only getting more prevalent as time goes on, Nintendo starts reversing some of these trends.
What defense force? LOL. Who are these people who are saying Nintendo Switch Online is so great and doesn't need to improve or anything? The people you seem to be complaining about don't exist here.
Then stop saying "copy Xbox" like its a magical solution. Offer what you think should be improved and how it could be improved. What good is criticism if nobody offers any ideas on how to fix it?
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Indeed, because Nintendo products don't exist in a vacuum. I have a variety of consoles and gaming devices in my home, Switch is just one of them. Expectations are set by Nintendo themselves, the competition, the year we're in. If a game's joining process in 2020 is more awkward than it was on any other console some 10 years ago (including the Wii!), there's an issue. If a game's multiplayer has less features than what those weak-ass hardwares like the DS or 3DS supported, there's clearly an issue and hardware isn't it. Will anything change? Well, Nintendo is breaking pretty much all records with all the new installments in their franchises. Be it Animal Crossing, Zelda or Pokémon, they're reaching astonishing sales despite (in some cases) price increases as well. But in a prominent gaming forum like this I feel that keeping the discussion alive might perhaps make a little change. I certainly hope so, and it's not because I want Nintendo to suffer or console warrior reasons, it's because I want a better experience on the products I buy.
The former is what's happening, the OP didn't imply any system-wide issue, just stated he/she was unhappy with Nintendo's local multiplayer offerings this gen
It's the worst it has ever been.
I'm amazed they haven't fixed New Horizons yet. Local multiplayer straight up won't even connect most of the time. My SO and I have to go online even though we're right next to each other. We've tried everything and it still craps out.
I'm amazed they haven't fixed New Horizons yet. Local multiplayer straight up won't even connect most of the time. My SO and I have to go online even though we're right next to each other. We've tried everything and it still craps out.
Then the examples they gave were rather weak. Now if you brought up legit complaints with something like Smash Bros. local multiplayer, the argument may have some more weight. But all OP could muster was some throwaway co-op options and 2 games primarily designed around local wireless.
NSo does not need a gimmick to make it unique. All people are asking for is the very basic online functions to work on par with the competition. I'm not technical enough to offer a solution to how to fix the netcode, but if I can play SFV, For Honor, DBFZ, etc. on my Xbox and PS4 with next to no lag, then I put Smash on my Switch and the online is a slideshow that's marginally better than their horrible netcode back on Brawl, then there's something fundamentally wrong with the service.
You don't need to be able to offer a solution in order to criticise something. I'd like to think that people at Nintendo are competent enough to understand the problem and be able to come up with a solution themselves.
If you people would actually read my posts, you would know that I actually don't disagree with this... But...
I wonder why....
There's something fundamentally wrong with the development team. If a game like Splatoon 2 or Mario Kart run fine online, yet Smash somehow doesn't. That's the fault of the developers not being able to do proper net code, not really the service.
Then we should be asking for a compromise on features and solutions. Saying "copy Xbox" is a lazy answer because there's no substance to it, and it doesn't address the ACTUAL problems with the service.
But we shouldn't have to find solutions or compromises for them. It's their job. It's not like they're actively seeking for feedback with surveys or have a beta /insdier program to test features.
But they probably can't manage something like that. Their fax machine would get overwhelmed.
Amen.
The defense of some of the AC desaster is mind bogling. Theres a "slow paced game", and then theres "literaly watching a 30-60 second loading screen while a new player connects and you have to stip what you are doing for them to even be able to connect".
And there are so many missed points in multiplayer games, pokemons was also broken at the beginning, even local...no idea if they changed/fixed it.
and we are paying for that.
I started the demo of 51 games...yeah. to be honest, the ui seems a bit unwieldy. ITs the typical nintendo stuff now, with to many screens between and play.
If games like puyopuyo tetris or Enter the Gungeon can have quick start options on the main screen, why cant nintendo add such options to the games where you play sometimes in short burts?
Smash, AC, 51 gamesomething... add these options, add them right t the main menu. maybe even let the user create quickstart options, so that when he starts the game, he has configured which games with which configuration he uses the most. Or in AC: let us enter a multiplayer session from the main screen. No loading my island, then running to the bird, going through 2 minutes of dialoge... to then lod a whole new island. Just a submenu on the main menu "visit friends island" -> online/local and then it shows you a list of available ones.
Its shocking how... bad nintendos UX design got this gen in a way. So unwieldily...
Didn't they send out surveys regarding online a while ago? In any case, an important part of critique is explaining what is wrong, and how you feel it could be better. It may not be "our job" to solve these problems. But exchanging ideas and suggestions, at least gives the criticized in question (Nintendo) something to at least build off of for when they do start solving these issues.
Even when they already have improved some stuff, LOL.
Can't believe I am reading that people are unable to criticize NSO without offering suggestions on how to fix it.
If we are speaking strictly from a discussion standpoint, I agree that merely complaining doesn't create interesting discussions, but people also have a right to vent.
Regardless, customers already have access to the exact services through competitors, and if Nintendo is to learn, they need look at them. To put the onus in the consumers is to undermine the company's ability to do basic market research and their own perspective of their services.
If we are speaking strictly from a discussion standpoint, I agree that merely complaining doesn't create interesting discussions, but people also have a right to vent.
Regardless, customers already have access to the exact services through competitors, and if Nintendo is to learn, they need look at them. To put the onus in the consumers is to undermine the company's ability to do basic market research and their own perspective of their services.
I recently got a Switch for squeezing in some game time while social distancing and taking care of a newborn, so online multiplayer is not a big priority to me now, but the bare-bones options are still shocking. I haven't encountered a lot of issues with this so far but the restrictiveness of something like visiting different islands in Animal Crossing was unexpected.
Just comparing the local and online experience of the Clubhouse games (51 on Switch and 42 on DS) is amazing. On DS you had local and online play on 35 of 42 games, for up to 8 players, and with a chat system (hell, even pictochat like when playing with friends). And it retailed at 30$ IIRC.
Yes people have a right to vent. But it gets exhausting seeing the same shit rehashed without anything new being said.
Which is why the whole "Copy Xbox Live" on its own is a bad answer. The real answer should be, copy what the competition does well, but also offer your own ideas. Don't people actually want these services to stand out in terms of features and offerings?
The 51 Worldwide Classics setup is a joke all around. No idea how this game reviewed so well when it's actively difficult to play with other people. There are a bunch of games where you could pass a joycon. But no, I guess we'll just play Ludo. Wtf.
It doesn't bother me so much when certain games don't have multiplayer, so on that we disagree.
Where I do get a little irritated is with games that have online functionality having these absurd walls--the Animal Crossing airport, Splatoon 2 not having lobbies, friend code/room codes in Mario Kart...just a lot of needless hurdles to overcome. Paired with the lack of any sort of communications and it can be obnoxious.
THAT SAID, there's something weirdly appealing in barebones Nintendo online...like the lack of trophies and no constant updates and all that make for a super streamlined (not the right word) experience that means I can pop in and out pretty quickly, and for that there's something worth commending.
tl;dr: they have plenty of room for improvement but there's a weird allure in how minimalist their online can be at times.
Where I do get a little irritated is with games that have online functionality having these absurd walls--the Animal Crossing airport, Splatoon 2 not having lobbies, friend code/room codes in Mario Kart...just a lot of needless hurdles to overcome. Paired with the lack of any sort of communications and it can be obnoxious.
THAT SAID, there's something weirdly appealing in barebones Nintendo online...like the lack of trophies and no constant updates and all that make for a super streamlined (not the right word) experience that means I can pop in and out pretty quickly, and for that there's something worth commending.
tl;dr: they have plenty of room for improvement but there's a weird allure in how minimalist their online can be at times.
You need to do research on every single Nintendo game that you're interest in playing with others.
Best practice is to assume the worst case scenario for each release so that their usually poor implementation doesn't end up disappointing.
Best practice is to assume the worst case scenario for each release so that their usually poor implementation doesn't end up disappointing.
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That's a solid point. The new Call Of Duty has these 20GB updates what feels like every other week. A lot of in-game updates, as well. All kinds of changes, eternal loading times and whatnot. In that sense, going to a barebones multiplayer that "just works" is refreshing, but there's a lot of middle ground as well. Rocket League doesn't have anything flashy, but I start the game and can be in any mode I like in like 30 seconds, be that with friends on my same console, all around the world, on a different platform altogether, even combining things (eg. a team of 4 with me and GF playing on my Xbox One spint-screen and two folks joining on a Switch and a PC). That sort of stuff should be the golden standard, then there's stuff like Animal Crossing...
What If I told you that you can retain that streamlined feel... AND have features that are standard on other platforms? Crazy concept I know!
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I agree with this, and I research the games as much as I need to buy. I wasn't sure about what were the 4-player implementations of 51 Worldwide Games to be honest, but given 95% of the time would be spent with my fiancé only, the 2-player stuff was more than enough in that sense, so the buy was justified regardless. But when we have to pass the Joy-Con and make "mental teams" because the game doesn't computer with 4 players in bowling, something about any game with bowling (including indies) in the past 15 years managed to deliver... it's just baffling. Not because it's necessarily gamebreaking, but because it's such an obvious feature to have and somehow it's not included.
We need GGPO for Blackjack.
Nintendo has a strong lineup of online games, but all have major technical hang ups or just bizarre missing features. Why can't I see if a friend is playing online and then ask to join? In any game? Nintendo games are known for their polish, yet they don't seem to care at all to apply that same care to their online modes.
Nintendo has a strong lineup of online games, but all have major technical hang ups or just bizarre missing features. Why can't I see if a friend is playing online and then ask to join? In any game? Nintendo games are known for their polish, yet they don't seem to care at all to apply that same care to their online modes.
I said there's room for improvement. I also stand by the fact that turning on my system and playing is more appealing than turning on my system and waiting 15 mins for an update to download and install.
For someone who complains so much about tired arguments and whataboutisms, you sure say people are suggesting "copying xbox live" a lot when i'm not really seeing anyone but you repeating it in this thread.
I agree. I'm just bringing up this issue, AGAIN, because neither side seems to consider this seemingly obvious fact.
I have actually held off on recommending that game to some friends knowing we wouldn't be able to play most of the games with three or four players. The lack of two players on one console being able to play online is also very disappointing. My girlfriend and I each have a Switch, so most scenarios are doable, but but that game could benefit so much from some features that should have been implemented to begin with. Hopefully we'll see a patch soon.
Nintendo also decided not to include Street Pass with the Switch. That was one of the best features of the 3DS and Nintendo discarded it. Shame!
I don't mind the rotating schedule of Splatoon 2. It's fine for me. In other multiplayer games people tend to pick the same map over and over and over again (dust2 I'm looking at you). So with Splatoon you'll be forced to play every map. I don't mind that. The salmon run thing is a bit annoying, but it's so good I found that whenever it was open I would play that instead of the other modes so maybe it's good in that sense that I can't always play it. LOL.
Animal Crossing is an unmitigated disaster though. Why the fuck do I have to watch the scene every time someone takes off or lands? Horrible. Nintendo SHOULD fix that. They won't.
I don't mind the rotating schedule of Splatoon 2. It's fine for me. In other multiplayer games people tend to pick the same map over and over and over again (dust2 I'm looking at you). So with Splatoon you'll be forced to play every map. I don't mind that. The salmon run thing is a bit annoying, but it's so good I found that whenever it was open I would play that instead of the other modes so maybe it's good in that sense that I can't always play it. LOL.
Animal Crossing is an unmitigated disaster though. Why the fuck do I have to watch the scene every time someone takes off or lands? Horrible. Nintendo SHOULD fix that. They won't.
None of those are first party games. Smash Bros netcode is known for being shitty, but that has nothing to do with Switch Online being paid or not, it's a problem specific to Super Smash Bros Ultimate the game itself.
You can play Rocket League or Fortnite on Switch with similar performance to the other consoles.
