Disclaimer: Before you misinterpret my topic, I have to let you know it regards to loot grinds in games like Diablo and similar games, not the lootboxes debacle. And there will be some terminologies that some of you may not be familiar with, so I'll explain some of it:
Random rolls: A specific loot item that has combinations of traits and perks that are randomized each time you get them
Perfect roll (Aka god-roll): Getting a loot item with a powerful combination of traits and perks.
Grinding: A long and arduous activity that involves doing the same activities repeatedly to get rare loot
So… loot grinds. The bane for some players over the years or an element that gives other players to grind every day to get more powerful and get the gear they want. Over the years, there has been many arguments and debates over whether loot grinds are just a cheap tactic to psychologically manipulate players to play loot games every day
For this topic, I'm gonna give my take about why loot grinds are fun and enjoyable, and how it to relates to the Destiny series at hand (Especially with the problems that Destiny 2 is facing in terms of the endgame). I'm not gonna discuss about the problems of Destiny 2's PvP because that's a whole different debate and I don't have a hand in it
So…. why do some players enjoy playing loot games? Especially games like Diablo 3? Because those players enjoy the grind of getting the loot they wanted and building their character to be able to slay bad guys with more damage and feel like a god. There's a sense of excitement when you got the loot you really wanted after grinding for hours every day, knowing that you'll feel like a god while slaying your enemies.
So how it relates to Destiny? Let's start things off that vanilla Destiny did have various problems. Aside from the story, the endgame was pretty much a painful grind as Vault of Glass was the only activity that got you endgame gear and weapons (Let's not forget over the fact legendary engrams initially gave blues before Bungie fixed it). And Exotics were pretty much rare to get alongside the fact that the Exotic Weapon Bounties were a huge grind to accomplish. However, I'll go with devil's advocate and argue that the rarity of the legendary gear and Exotics throughout Year 1 is what made them feel unique. There was a reason why Gjallarhorn was a huge thing in the Destiny community back in the day. Not only it was very powerful and made you feel you could take on the whole world, it was pretty much hard to get and you pretty much had to spend hours to get it. The feeling when getting Gjallarhorn for the first time is pretty much unbeatable. Hell, Fatebringer was a huge fanfare due to its excellent perk synergy. Once you got it, no other Handcannons can surpass it.
Mind you, they did make some improvements with the endgame by making it less of a painful ordeal starting with House of Wolves and they made further improvements with The Taken King and Rise of Iron. However, there were some elements of the community who felt frustrated with the game as it entered Year 2 and Year 3. I'm not talking about the ones who lamented over Exotics costing a leg and arm to get them and weren't happy over the idea of getting Exotics through long questlines. I'm talking about people who were frustrated about random rolls.
Random rolls are pretty much huge elements in loot games. It gives players a reason to grind every day. However, it made other players feel like pulling their hairs out knowing they didn't get the god-roll they wanted. If you aren't familiar, there were huge fanfares over Eyasluna, Imago Loop, and Grasp of Malok due to the fact they were powerful weapons to use. However, the grind to get the perfect roll for both of these weapons were long and tedious. It didn't even help that there were lots of perk pools for weapons back in Year 2, making grinding for the perfect roll much more painful. While there's a good argument saying that you don't have to grind for the perfect roll, the fact remains that your weapons feel useless if they don't have a perfect roll. Even if you say that you were satisfied with an average roll for Grasp of Malok, it was pretty much an admittance that you will never get the god-roll Grasp of Malok and had to settle with an average roll.
But it's not just loot grinds that gives players a reason to play, but incentives as well. Gear and weapons that feel unique gives enough incentives for people to even play the most challenging endgame activities. Year 3 along with Age of Triumph update included armor ornaments for gear that gives them a unique look as well as Exotic versions of the Raid weapons were incentives for players to do weekly raid playlist for every week. Nightfalls as well Weekly Story Playlist and Weekly Heroic Strikes gave people incentives to do those activities to get enough currency to buy legendary gear in addition to cosmetics (emotes, sparrows, ships, weapon ornaments, etc..).
While there were debates over the community over which era was the pinnacle of Destiny. Some say it's Year 1 after HoW's release and some say the early months of Year 2. But it's well known that Year 3 including Age of Triumph was the pinnacle as it gave players lots of incentives to do in the endgame. Many Destiny players hoped that Destiny 2 would be the continuation of Destiny 1 and for Bungie to expand on game systems from D1 and take action on the lessons they've learned throughout the years they've developed with Destiny.
2 months later, Destiny 2's endgame is in a dire state similarly to vanilla Destiny 1 (but much worse). There are reasons why the endgame is very lacking.
With the removal of random rolls, it was a blessing for some players as they prefer to get the weapon they want and not worry if it has bad perk rolls. However, it killed the incentive for other players to grind because whatever dupe of weapons they're already, it'll always have the same roll. There's a good point to make about why static rolls are bad. Because with static rolls, a bad weapon is bad forever. With random rolls, the bad weapon could be good with a certain combination of perks. Static rolls would be acceptables if there were hundreds of weapons, but that's not the case. And it doesn't help that the weapons in Faction Rally and Iron Banner are re-skins. While there were re-skinned weapons in Destiny 1, their perks and how the gun feels to play are different from each other. Lord High Fixer and Fatebringer may share the same model, but they play differently from each other.
But lack of random rolls isn't the only problem. The biggest issue is lack of incentives. While some people say that Destiny 2's endgame lack content, what it truly lacks are incentives. There are no incentives to do the Raid or Trials because you'll get their respective weapons through clan engrams. There are no incentives to do adventures (Aside for some lore) because they don't give rewards for max level. And there are no incentives to do Lost Sectors because they're nothing more than linear caves where you kill a major and the rewards are no good either. And most importantly, endgame gear
don't feel unique. Raid weapons don't have raid-specific perks into them, so that makes less incentive to get them. And Strikes? Not much point in doing them with the lack of strike-specific loot and not being able to choose the Strike you wanna play. You don't even get more powerful where you can stomp your enemies easily due to them scaling to your power level, which makes it less exciting to get to 305 (Destiny 2's current power level cap). And it doesn't help that you can get to max level easily through weekly milestones or public events which gives players less reasons to do the raid. That's a failure of endgame design as you shouldn't be allowed to get to max level unless you're committed to do the endgame activities like Raiding or Trials.
While at the end of the day you can argue that Destiny is a shooter and they shouldn't bother expanding on the MMO-like elements, that's a disingenuous take. I'd wager that Destiny players didn't play play Destiny for its core gameplay, they played it because of the unique loot and gear. They played it because they enjoyed the grind. While there's a point about playing it because you enjoy it with friends, it's only a matter of time before they get bored and your friends decide it's not worth their time. At this point, Destiny 2 mostly feels like a game where you only play it every Tuesday to finish Weekly Milestones and it's only a short while before you're bored and stop playing it. And with the lack of proper social tools, there's not much point in playing it with friends now, is it?
"Maybe its time to take a break. You don't have keep playing Destiny forever"
I think you're missing the point. There are certain online games where players play it every day because they have fun and they get incentives to play them. World of Warcraft, League of Legends, PUBG, and so on. Hell, Destiny 1 felt that game to Destiny players where they play it every day and never get bored. And it got the point where they got hundreds, if not, thousands of hours in overall gameplay. They wanted Destiny 2 to feel like the game where they can play it every day and have the incentive to do the endgame activities every week. And to tell Destiny players to play other games when they've invested thousands of hours into Destiny is frankly patronising.
"So what exactly the point you're trying to make?"
The point is that Destiny 2 right now lacks incentive in its endgame and the unique gear and loot to get and the feeling of being a space magic god. Destiny 1 may not have been perfect, but it gave lots of incentives for players to play and it made them feel like gods. You may think loot grinds are the devil, but the "devil" gave players incentive to keep playing Destiny. The very fact that Destiny 1 still has a sizeable population in PvP and Strikes (Save for Nightfall and Raids, which makes things harder) shows that players do value incentive to play which Destiny 2 currently lacks.
While Bungie's Weekly Update in 26th October shows promise that Bungie are listening and aiming to fix the problems with the endgame, that doesn't make it acceptable for Destiny 2 to be launched the way, especially with the high expectations from the players. As said before, talk is cheap and actions speaks louder than words. It will take some time before Destiny 2's endgame gets better, that much is known. But I sincerely doubt the community will tolerate another 3 years for it to get better. Bungie don't get the benefit of the doubt this time around. They only got it one time because Destiny 1's development was a huge fumble and there were infighting over whether Destiny should be WoW in Space or Halo 2.0 and had to improve the game over time after its launch. And due to Destiny 2's current state, veteran players have less reasons to trust Bungie and would think twice before pre-ordering Destiny 3 in the future. Hell, some of them already swore not to buy any DLCs for D2.
The veteran players may not matter in the bigger picture, but they did help elevate Destiny and keep Bungie from going under. So it's no surprise that they feel betrayed with the launch of Destiny 2 as a reward for staying loyal with the series.
I have no doubt Destiny 2 will improve, but time will tell if Bungie's Live Team will fulfill their promises and fix the mistakes with the endgame.
Random rolls: A specific loot item that has combinations of traits and perks that are randomized each time you get them
Perfect roll (Aka god-roll): Getting a loot item with a powerful combination of traits and perks.
Grinding: A long and arduous activity that involves doing the same activities repeatedly to get rare loot
So… loot grinds. The bane for some players over the years or an element that gives other players to grind every day to get more powerful and get the gear they want. Over the years, there has been many arguments and debates over whether loot grinds are just a cheap tactic to psychologically manipulate players to play loot games every day
For this topic, I'm gonna give my take about why loot grinds are fun and enjoyable, and how it to relates to the Destiny series at hand (Especially with the problems that Destiny 2 is facing in terms of the endgame). I'm not gonna discuss about the problems of Destiny 2's PvP because that's a whole different debate and I don't have a hand in it
So…. why do some players enjoy playing loot games? Especially games like Diablo 3? Because those players enjoy the grind of getting the loot they wanted and building their character to be able to slay bad guys with more damage and feel like a god. There's a sense of excitement when you got the loot you really wanted after grinding for hours every day, knowing that you'll feel like a god while slaying your enemies.
So how it relates to Destiny? Let's start things off that vanilla Destiny did have various problems. Aside from the story, the endgame was pretty much a painful grind as Vault of Glass was the only activity that got you endgame gear and weapons (Let's not forget over the fact legendary engrams initially gave blues before Bungie fixed it). And Exotics were pretty much rare to get alongside the fact that the Exotic Weapon Bounties were a huge grind to accomplish. However, I'll go with devil's advocate and argue that the rarity of the legendary gear and Exotics throughout Year 1 is what made them feel unique. There was a reason why Gjallarhorn was a huge thing in the Destiny community back in the day. Not only it was very powerful and made you feel you could take on the whole world, it was pretty much hard to get and you pretty much had to spend hours to get it. The feeling when getting Gjallarhorn for the first time is pretty much unbeatable. Hell, Fatebringer was a huge fanfare due to its excellent perk synergy. Once you got it, no other Handcannons can surpass it.
Mind you, they did make some improvements with the endgame by making it less of a painful ordeal starting with House of Wolves and they made further improvements with The Taken King and Rise of Iron. However, there were some elements of the community who felt frustrated with the game as it entered Year 2 and Year 3. I'm not talking about the ones who lamented over Exotics costing a leg and arm to get them and weren't happy over the idea of getting Exotics through long questlines. I'm talking about people who were frustrated about random rolls.
Random rolls are pretty much huge elements in loot games. It gives players a reason to grind every day. However, it made other players feel like pulling their hairs out knowing they didn't get the god-roll they wanted. If you aren't familiar, there were huge fanfares over Eyasluna, Imago Loop, and Grasp of Malok due to the fact they were powerful weapons to use. However, the grind to get the perfect roll for both of these weapons were long and tedious. It didn't even help that there were lots of perk pools for weapons back in Year 2, making grinding for the perfect roll much more painful. While there's a good argument saying that you don't have to grind for the perfect roll, the fact remains that your weapons feel useless if they don't have a perfect roll. Even if you say that you were satisfied with an average roll for Grasp of Malok, it was pretty much an admittance that you will never get the god-roll Grasp of Malok and had to settle with an average roll.
But it's not just loot grinds that gives players a reason to play, but incentives as well. Gear and weapons that feel unique gives enough incentives for people to even play the most challenging endgame activities. Year 3 along with Age of Triumph update included armor ornaments for gear that gives them a unique look as well as Exotic versions of the Raid weapons were incentives for players to do weekly raid playlist for every week. Nightfalls as well Weekly Story Playlist and Weekly Heroic Strikes gave people incentives to do those activities to get enough currency to buy legendary gear in addition to cosmetics (emotes, sparrows, ships, weapon ornaments, etc..).
While there were debates over the community over which era was the pinnacle of Destiny. Some say it's Year 1 after HoW's release and some say the early months of Year 2. But it's well known that Year 3 including Age of Triumph was the pinnacle as it gave players lots of incentives to do in the endgame. Many Destiny players hoped that Destiny 2 would be the continuation of Destiny 1 and for Bungie to expand on game systems from D1 and take action on the lessons they've learned throughout the years they've developed with Destiny.
2 months later, Destiny 2's endgame is in a dire state similarly to vanilla Destiny 1 (but much worse). There are reasons why the endgame is very lacking.
With the removal of random rolls, it was a blessing for some players as they prefer to get the weapon they want and not worry if it has bad perk rolls. However, it killed the incentive for other players to grind because whatever dupe of weapons they're already, it'll always have the same roll. There's a good point to make about why static rolls are bad. Because with static rolls, a bad weapon is bad forever. With random rolls, the bad weapon could be good with a certain combination of perks. Static rolls would be acceptables if there were hundreds of weapons, but that's not the case. And it doesn't help that the weapons in Faction Rally and Iron Banner are re-skins. While there were re-skinned weapons in Destiny 1, their perks and how the gun feels to play are different from each other. Lord High Fixer and Fatebringer may share the same model, but they play differently from each other.
But lack of random rolls isn't the only problem. The biggest issue is lack of incentives. While some people say that Destiny 2's endgame lack content, what it truly lacks are incentives. There are no incentives to do the Raid or Trials because you'll get their respective weapons through clan engrams. There are no incentives to do adventures (Aside for some lore) because they don't give rewards for max level. And there are no incentives to do Lost Sectors because they're nothing more than linear caves where you kill a major and the rewards are no good either. And most importantly, endgame gear
don't feel unique. Raid weapons don't have raid-specific perks into them, so that makes less incentive to get them. And Strikes? Not much point in doing them with the lack of strike-specific loot and not being able to choose the Strike you wanna play. You don't even get more powerful where you can stomp your enemies easily due to them scaling to your power level, which makes it less exciting to get to 305 (Destiny 2's current power level cap). And it doesn't help that you can get to max level easily through weekly milestones or public events which gives players less reasons to do the raid. That's a failure of endgame design as you shouldn't be allowed to get to max level unless you're committed to do the endgame activities like Raiding or Trials.
While at the end of the day you can argue that Destiny is a shooter and they shouldn't bother expanding on the MMO-like elements, that's a disingenuous take. I'd wager that Destiny players didn't play play Destiny for its core gameplay, they played it because of the unique loot and gear. They played it because they enjoyed the grind. While there's a point about playing it because you enjoy it with friends, it's only a matter of time before they get bored and your friends decide it's not worth their time. At this point, Destiny 2 mostly feels like a game where you only play it every Tuesday to finish Weekly Milestones and it's only a short while before you're bored and stop playing it. And with the lack of proper social tools, there's not much point in playing it with friends now, is it?
"Maybe its time to take a break. You don't have keep playing Destiny forever"
I think you're missing the point. There are certain online games where players play it every day because they have fun and they get incentives to play them. World of Warcraft, League of Legends, PUBG, and so on. Hell, Destiny 1 felt that game to Destiny players where they play it every day and never get bored. And it got the point where they got hundreds, if not, thousands of hours in overall gameplay. They wanted Destiny 2 to feel like the game where they can play it every day and have the incentive to do the endgame activities every week. And to tell Destiny players to play other games when they've invested thousands of hours into Destiny is frankly patronising.
"So what exactly the point you're trying to make?"
The point is that Destiny 2 right now lacks incentive in its endgame and the unique gear and loot to get and the feeling of being a space magic god. Destiny 1 may not have been perfect, but it gave lots of incentives for players to play and it made them feel like gods. You may think loot grinds are the devil, but the "devil" gave players incentive to keep playing Destiny. The very fact that Destiny 1 still has a sizeable population in PvP and Strikes (Save for Nightfall and Raids, which makes things harder) shows that players do value incentive to play which Destiny 2 currently lacks.
While Bungie's Weekly Update in 26th October shows promise that Bungie are listening and aiming to fix the problems with the endgame, that doesn't make it acceptable for Destiny 2 to be launched the way, especially with the high expectations from the players. As said before, talk is cheap and actions speaks louder than words. It will take some time before Destiny 2's endgame gets better, that much is known. But I sincerely doubt the community will tolerate another 3 years for it to get better. Bungie don't get the benefit of the doubt this time around. They only got it one time because Destiny 1's development was a huge fumble and there were infighting over whether Destiny should be WoW in Space or Halo 2.0 and had to improve the game over time after its launch. And due to Destiny 2's current state, veteran players have less reasons to trust Bungie and would think twice before pre-ordering Destiny 3 in the future. Hell, some of them already swore not to buy any DLCs for D2.
The veteran players may not matter in the bigger picture, but they did help elevate Destiny and keep Bungie from going under. So it's no surprise that they feel betrayed with the launch of Destiny 2 as a reward for staying loyal with the series.
I have no doubt Destiny 2 will improve, but time will tell if Bungie's Live Team will fulfill their promises and fix the mistakes with the endgame.
