In Sweden, 58% of those convicted of rape and attempted rape over the past 5 years were born abroad

[Morrigan]

Immigrant's aren't stupid troglodytes who need a western person to tell them that rape isn't that cool of a thing. This isn't the first time this argument popped up in this thread and it's infuriating. They're normal people that know what's wrong and what's not. I'm sorry to go off on you but damn, just think about that a bit. This is some vile racist shit.

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It's not as simple as "knowing rape is wrong". The pernicious thing about rape culture is that literally everyone knows rape is wrong, even rapists, and yet they still rape:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/30/health/men-rape-sexual-assault.html

Heavy drinking, perceived pressure to have sex, a belief in "rape myths" — such as the idea that no means yes — are all risk factors among men who have committed sexual assault. A peer group that uses hostile language to describe women is another one.

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Most subjects in these studies freely acknowledge nonconsensual sex — but that does not mean they consider it real rape. Researchers encounter this contradiction again and again.

Asked "if they had penetrated against their consent," said Dr. Koss, the subject will say yes. Asked if he did "something like rape," the answer is almost always no.

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Studies of incarcerated rapists — even men who admit to keeping sex slaves in conflict zones — find a similar disconnect. It's not that they deny sexual assault happens; it's just that the crime is committed by the monster over there.

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https://broadly.vice.com/en_us/article/qkg7y7/why-so-many-rapists-dont-realize-theyre-rapists

Instead, he blamed his actions on a culture of "binge drinking and sexual promiscuity," framing what took place that night as a destructive consequence of his own excessive alcohol consumption, rather than a sexual assault he had perpetrated. "In no way was I trying to rape anyone, in no way was I trying to harm anyone, and in no way was I trying to take advantage of anyone," he said.

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ed-rapists-in-india-this-is-what-she-learned/

Most of the men she met there were uneducated, only a handful had graduated high school. Many were third- or fourth-grade dropouts. "When I went to research, I was convinced these men are monsters. But when you talk to them, you realize these are not extraordinary men, they are really ordinary. What they've done is because of upbringing and thought process."

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Pandey said that hearing some of the rapists talk reminded her of commonly held beliefs that were often parroted even in her own household. "After you speak to [the rapists], it shocks you — these men have the power to make you feel sorry for them. As a woman that's not how you expect to feel. I would almost forget that these men have been convicted of raping a woman. In my experience a lot of these men don't realize that what they've done is rape. They don't understand what consent is."

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In India, social attitudes are highly conservative. Sex education is left out of most school curriculums; legislators feel such topics could "corrupt" youth and offend traditional values. "Parents won't even say the words like penis, vagina, rape or sex. If they can't get over that, how can they educate young boys?" Pandey asked.

In the interviews, many men made excuses or gave justifications for their actions. Many denied rape happened at all. "There were only three or four who said we are repenting. Others had found a way to put their actions into some justification, neutralize, or blame action onto the victim."

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Rape culture is complicated. Rapists may not fully understand consent, they may have regressive views on women (caused by ignorance, religion, family/upbringing or other factors) which makes them think that what they do isn't rape, or they may victim-blame their victims as "asking for it, so it wasn't really rape", etc. Another example of how more progressive views about women and more modern mentalities have reduced rape, is that in many countries, marital rape is now illegal, but it wasn't always (in some parts of the world it's not even illegal). Some men have very regressive views about women and think of them as property, rather than individual human beings, and thus don't think their consent matters, or think it's only rape if done it to another man's wife (because they assaulted/defiled the other man's "property"). This was an incredibly common belief until the 20th century.

It is actually more dangerous to think that rapists are just these soulless, psychopathic rabid animals, because that denies the reality of rape culture, that these men are... really quite "ordinary" for the most part, as that Indian researcher said. It's an uncomfortable reality, but we'll hardly progress until we acknowledge the role rape culture plays in all of this and how it manifests itself in various ways across the globe.

 

[Dilly]

No what I'm saying is that they very well know that raping women is not ok and not accepted. I'm an Italian from South Italy living in Germany. No one would tell me to not kill people just because the Mafia is a part of Southern Italys culture.
Telling people the obvious wouldn't change anything. The overwhelming majority of them are just normal people. You can't just work under the assumption that you have to tell them not to do a bad things. Again, they're not stupid.

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Even disregarding societal norms, some of these people were born in war torn countries. That's not at all compareable with your example. If you grow up in a place where society has broken down, your definition of 'bad things' is going to be different to someone who has grown up in Europe.

 

[Occam]

Shouldn't the question be, is there a higher rate of rape in the countries of origin of the rapists than committed by Swedish citizens in Sweden?

 

[Deleted member 4247]

No the Center party and Liberal party (both centre-right) have made very clear they won't get into power with the help of the Sweden Democrats. And their voters agree with them. I was talking about Moderaterna and the Christian Democrats (though that one is a bit more arguable) who are ready to work with fascists just to get into power. Which doesn't make them racist necessarily, but it certainly makes them ok with racists

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Alright. Yeah, I don't like that either, it's hard to know exactly where you have those parties.

 

[Deleted member 888]

Shouldn't the question be, is there a higher rate of rape in the countries of origin of the rapists than committed by Swedish citizens in Sweden?

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Proper stat collecting isn't exactly easy in some countries because either the Government doesn't collect stats or in some places, they couldn't care less how women are treated. I would view FGM as a form of rape, but at the very least it's categorized as sexual violence

It is estimated that more than 200 million girls and women alive today have undergone female genital mutilation in the countries where the practice is concentrated. Furthermore, there are an estimated 3 million girls at risk of undergoing female genital mutilation every year. The majority of girls are cut before they turn 15 years old (see Figure 1).

Female genital mutilation has been documented in 30 countries, mainly in Africa, as well as in the Middle East and Asia. Some forms of female genital mutilation have also been reported in other countries, including among certain ethnic groups in South America. Moreover, growing migration has increased the number of girls and women living outside their country of origin who have undergone female genital mutilation or who may be at risk of being subjected to the practice in Europe, Australia and North America.

The prevalence of female genital mutilation has been estimated from large-scale, national surveys asking women aged 15–49 years if they have themselves or their daughters have been cut. Considerable variations have been found between the countries, with prevalence rates over 80% in eight countries. Moreover, the prevalence varies among regions within countries, with ethnicity being the most influential factor.

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http://www.who.int/reproductivehealth/topics/fgm/prevalence/en/

The huge global scale of female genital mutilation has been revealed in disturbing new statistics, which show at least 200 million girls and women alive today have undergone ritual cutting, half of them living in just three countries.

The latest worldwide figures, compiled by Unicef, include nearly 70 million more girls and women than estimated in 2014 because of a raft of new data collected in Indonesia, one of the countries where FGM is most prevalent despite the practice being banned since 2006.

In the analysis of 30 countries, published to mark the International Day of Zero Tolerance for FGM, statistics showed women in Indonesia, Egypt and Ethiopia account for half of all FGM victims worldwide. Somalia has the highest prevalence of women and girls who have been cut – 98% of the female population between the ages of 15 and 49.

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https://www.theguardian.com/society...victims-female-genital-mutilation-alive-today

Charities tend to be able to correlate FGM stats and obviously if and when some women migrate and seek healthcare in certain countries, doctors and health institutions then record them as having historical FGM carried out.

It's why recently when this forum had that topic that stated America is the 10th worst place in the world for women to live many questioned it. One has to remember stat collection, reporting and police involvement in America will produce fairly reasonable statistics, that while still shocking, have to be considered against some countries we know women are treated, on average, far more apalling than in America and there is little in the way of data. More observation, charity work or activists speaking out.

 

[Occam]

Yeah, and one has to remember that in some muslim countries women who come forward after having been raped are then punished for having had extramarital sex. So of course there is no reliable data from any such country.

 

[Deleted member 888]

Yeah, and one has to remember that in some muslim countries women who come forward after having been raped are then punished for having had extramarital sex. So of course there is no reliable data from any such country.

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Well Dubai still makes the headlines every so often for having a go at tourists

There is a long list of cases where Dubai authorities have aggressively prosecuted Western tourists who were actually victims of rape and sexual assault in the city.

Last year, amid huge international outcry at her arrest, officials dropped charges against a British woman who was facing jail after being gang-raped in a hotel room.

After reporting the crime to police, the woman was accused of having sex outside of marriage, a crime punishable by jail time, flogging and even stoning to death. She was eventually freed.

Similarly, Australian woman Alicia Gali spent eight months in a Dubai jail after she was drugged and violently raped, and sentenced to a year in prison for having extramarital sex.

Radha Stirling from Detained in Dubai said such situations were common in the Gulf states.

"Dubai struggles to maintain its promoted reputation of being tolerant, modern, progressive and focused on happiness and positivity, while it regularly victimises women for reporting crime," Ms Stirling said.

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https://www.themorningbulletin.com....-from-young-muslim-women-during-rama/3450295/

Incidences like this are not uncommon in the Gulf. Dubai struggles to maintain its promoted reputation of being tolerant, modern, progressive and focussed on happiness and positivity, while it regularly victimises women for reporting crime. All of the glamour, glitz and fireworks displays in the world press cannot disguise the negative image that incidences like this one generate.

Over the past decade, my group Detained in Dubai has unfortunately been involved in a number of similar cases, causing us to lobby judicial improvements in crime report handling. Alicia Gali, an Australian national who has spoken publicly and extensively about her own ordeal, spent eight months in jail after being drugged and violently raped. With broken bones and evidence of serious assault, her abuse was continued by the authorities through the UAE's legal processes.

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Other cases include a Norwegian woman who was sentenced to 16 months in prison after having reported her rape. Only after Norwegian diplomats intervened was she able to leave the UAE, once the ruler issued her a pardon.

South African national Roxanne Hillier was jailed for seven months after it was alleged she spent time alone with her male employer. Despite medical reports returning that she had not engaged in sexual intercourse, she was still sentenced.

A common question we are asked as an organisation is whether a victim of crime should actually report it in Dubai. Whether it is a rape, assault, slander or less serious crime, we always explain the risks involved in reporting anything to the police. The victim can be jailed themselves or subject to retaliatory accusations that can lead to lengthy detentions or legal proceedings. One thing that rings true is that the system and its applications are volatile.

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With no embassy support, no legal aid and predatorily expensive lawyers, we have prepared "Proponence", a Membership Programme that will provide the kind of support that foreigners need when traveling to risky, but attractive, locations. It will provide legal and emergency support to people in this exact situation and we hope it will prevent unnecessarily protracted negative experiences for members.

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https://www.independent.co.uk/voice...ocal-laws-know-how-common-it-is-a7422336.html

That's just some gone viral cases with tourists, you can imagine in some countries what it could be like for local women who have no twitter account and have no large public voice.

 

[Feral]

Actually, you can argue rescuing someone 10 miles off Libian coast and taking them back to Europe instead 10 miles south to Libia is the definition of insanity. Again, these turn out to be predominantly single males.

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but the only reason why they are in Libya is because they are trying to get to Europe and are going to try again, and even with the current regulations there are refugees who qualify for asylum - sending them back because they technically didn't touch EU territory doesn't sit right with me. I really don't think that it should be the task of the EU to turn it into a game of luck. Their objective is to dissuade them from even coming here. We are willingly turning a blind eye to and encouraging human rights violations on a large scale

and Libya is a rather horrible place to be in for refugees

 

[SK4TE]

Shouldn't the question be, is there a higher rate of rape in the countries of origin of the rapists than committed by Swedish citizens in Sweden?

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Women are punished for being raped in a lot of Muslim countries. So impossible to know.

 

[Occam]

Women are punished for being raped in a lot of Muslim countries. So impossible to know.

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https://www.resetera.com/threads/in...s-were-born-abroad.63571/page-7#post-11786808

 

[MasterSummerSmith462]

What percentage of those convicted of drug related offenses in the USA are black? Think about the way policing works and the conversations we allow around that.

Stop this hateful bigotry. Disgusting.

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America has a history of systematic prejudice against African Americans.

Give stem receipts to conclude this would be even remotely comparable to Sweden.

 

[Eric_S]

No the Center party and Liberal party (both centre-right) have made very clear they won't get into power with the help of the Sweden Democrats. And their voters agree with them. I was talking about Moderaterna and the Christian Democrats (though that one is a bit more arguable) who are ready to work with fascists just to get into power. Which doesn't make them racist necessarily, but it certainly makes them ok with racists

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I hope that M and KD won't.

https://tv.nrk.no/serie/urix/NNFA53081618/16-08-2018

~07:30-08:30

An SD guy claiming that genetics are responsible in part to a "cultural essence". Aka racism+++.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

I hope that M and KD won't.

https://tv.nrk.no/serie/urix/NNFA53081618/16-08-2018

~07:30-08:30

An SD guy claiming that genetics are responsible in part to a "cultural essence". Aka racism+++.

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yeah that hereditary "cultural essence" stuff really shows what they're all about

you could conceivably reach the same policy conclusion as SD does just by saying that the culture you grow up in changes your behaviour and personality, which would in turn make people from certain cultures incompatible with people from other (in this racist way of thinking) superior cultures. there is no need to bring genes into it all. but by so clearly talking about how the genes of different ethnicities would lead to certain immutable culture and personality traits, you're clearly signalling that you're not content to stop at the "incompatible culture" dog-whistling, but you're full on "blood and earth" racist. this genetic cultural essence thing is a really scary concept. it really is racism plus plus plus plus, as you say

at this point, any non-racist who is more oriented towards right on an economical axis needs to vote for C and L, to show that they're not okay with this fascist enabler stuff M and KD have been pulling the last couple of years

 

[hydrophilic attack]

America has a history of systematic prejudice against African Americans.

Give stem receipts to conclude this would be even remotely comparable to Sweden.

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we have systematic racism against people from africa and the middle east in sweden

this has been shown in scientific studies

sending out identical job applications, where only the name of the applicant differs, you're 50% more likely to be called to an interview if your name sounds swedish rather than african or middle eastern

you can read about the study at the link below (in swedish)

https://lnu.se/mot-linneuniversitet...ttare-att-fa-jobb-om-du-har-ett-svenskt-namn/

 

[Paul]

Jesus christ what a disaster. So many lives destroyed.

 

[supremeplatypus]

yeah that hereditary "cultural essence" stuff really shows what they're all about

you could conceivably reach the same policy conclusion as SD does just by saying that the culture you grow up in changes your behaviour and personality, which would in turn make people from certain cultures incompatible with people from other (in this racist way of thinking) superior cultures. there is no need to bring genes into it all. but by so clearly talking about how the genes of different ethnicities would lead to certain immutable culture and personality traits, you're clearly signalling that you're not content to stop at the "incompatible culture" dog-whistling, but you're full on "blood and earth" racist. this genetic cultural essence thing is a really scary concept. it really is racism plus plus plus plus, as you say

at this point, any non-racist who is more oriented towards right on an economical axis needs to vote for C and L, to show that they're not okay with this fascist enabler stuff M and KD have been pulling the last couple of years

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Hopefully SD stays below <20% like many of the polls have said. Though some cultures objectively have really bad stuff associated with them though, like for example Saudi Arabia or Iran's treatment of women and gay people where most people over there support it even though it's a human rights violation. I don't think you'd call Afghanistan a liberal society in any sense of the word either too for example. People brought up in that environment is going to have a big impact on how you treat others in future because it's the only thing you've known. Sweden needs to focus heavily on changing newcomers from those countries' attitudes and perspectives and making sure everyone in society mixes and interacts together. Not making excuses for SD's shit though.

I expect the laws to be shifted slightly to make it harder to move to sweden soon to ward off SD, though, the rhetoric is already changing from the Social Democrats+every other mainstream party. Sweden has done more than anyone else in Europe for refugees per capita, so others need to also pitch in and help too. I wonder whether the pendulum will shift back more to the left at any point in the next 10 years. I really doubt that will happen sadly. This is how the world is now. Any respectable party should never, ever work with SD.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

Hopefully SD stays below <20% like many of the polls have said. Though some cultures objectively have really bad stuff associated with them though, like for example Saudi Arabia or Iran's treatment of women and gay people where most people over there support it even though it's a human rights violation. I don't think you'd call Afghanistan a liberal society in any sense of the word either too for example. People brought up in that environment is going to have a big impact on how you treat others in future because it's the only thing you've known. Sweden needs to focus heavily on changing newcomers from those countries' attitudes and perspectives and making sure everyone in society mixes and interacts together. Not making excuses for SD's shit though.

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yeah, i wasn't really trying to imply that anyone bringing up that certain cultures have a lot of problematic stuff are automatically diet racist, because it is indeed true that many cultures have many problematic aspects

what i was trying to say was that even using such relatively uncontroversial justifications, you would be able to justify almost all of the sweden democrats' policies if you want to. the fact that they go beyond that, into the very iffy hereditary "cultural essence" territory, shows that they double down on the racism++++ even when it makes you look bad and even when you don't really need to to justify your intentions. when they go so above and beyond for their racism, that should tell the rest of us all we need to know about their intentions

 

[Sloth Guevara]

There seems to be a lot to unpack in your response, but this part is just hilarious. Sweden isn't even in NATO, so what exactly was your contribution to the Syrian conflict? I can accept this for indirectly belligerent countries like Germany with its weapons exports, but maybe provide a source/evidence for Swedish imperialism in Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq?
If your answer is that it is the responsibility of the world to do anything necessary, then you're just blaming the US, Saudi Arabia and we still haven't discussed any meaningful progress in terms of assimilation/integration of people from patriarchal societies.

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Well Sweden does sell arms too the Saudis.
We do trade and benefit from trade with world powers that did indeed fuck the Middle East.
But it must be nice to think Sweden and western countries are in some kind of bubble.

 

[DIE BART DIE]

Audioboxer, you're doing good work in here. Great posts.

 

[Arkaign]

Not really. A large and substantial fear for any on the left is the rise of parties who are shitty overall but say things the average citizen thinks is progressive in the wake of sexual abuse so it garners voting sympathy for said party.

What hasn't helped in Europe is leading left wing parties paralysed by fear of optics they can't even discuss rape or grooming gang scandals in public without all being conflated with dog whistling. Or whatever other political accusation is levied. Even Merkel got shit for responding to some of the issues Germany faced by saying she's just pandering to the far right now. It's like there's no way to talk about any of this without immediately being called far right.

It's why one of the most apalling things to happen to modern political discourse is the unjust politicalization of something like rape, or sexism or misogyny. Yes, they are political issues, but in the game of politics of the last 10+ years its far more about optics, tweets, hot takes and just sniping each others side.

Things like rape and sexism should be political neutral as in everyone should oppose and work towards ethical solutions and support/awareness. The far right uses it to go down the route of all immigrants are rapists and those on the left living in fear just ignore the issues and/or downplay them as not to be associated with racism or xenophobia.

Everyone should remember there are actual victims stuck in the middle. Everyone should remember sexism should not be tolerated and that includes sexism stated in the name of "its my religion/culture". All of it breeds and leads to boiling points like this where actual physical assault or rape takes place as the respect for women circles the drain.

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Agreed.

 

[Deleted member 5127]

Not really. A large and substantial fear for any on the left is the rise of parties who are shitty overall but say things the average citizen thinks is progressive in the wake of sexual abuse so it garners voting sympathy for said party.

What hasn't helped in Europe is leading left wing parties paralysed by fear of optics they can't even discuss rape or grooming gang scandals in public without all being conflated with dog whistling. Or whatever other political accusation is levied. Even Merkel got shit for responding to some of the issues Germany faced by saying she's just pandering to the far right now. It's like there's no way to talk about any of this without immediately being called far right.

It's why one of the most apalling things to happen to modern political discourse is the unjust politicalization of something like rape, or sexism or misogyny. Yes, they are political issues, but in the game of politics of the last 10+ years its far more about optics, tweets, hot takes and just sniping each others side.

Things like rape and sexism should be political neutral as in everyone should oppose and work towards ethical solutions and support/awareness. The far right uses it to go down the route of all immigrants are rapists and those on the left living in fear just ignore the issues and/or downplay them as not to be associated with racism or xenophobia.

Everyone should remember there are actual victims stuck in the middle. Everyone should remember sexism should not be tolerated and that includes sexism stated in the name of "its my religion/culture". All of it breeds and leads to boiling points like this where actual physical assault or rape takes place as the respect for women circles the drain.

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Thank you for saying that, trying to speak about about it is usually followed by someone calling you alt-right/white supremacist. It has come to a point where there's no way I'm going to walk hand in hand(I'm gay) in certain places, because I have been harassed several times, and heard plenty of stories from other LGBT people, I don't want to end up beaten up by a group of men, it's just not worth it.

Dog whistling has become such a problem in Rotterdam, that it's become illegal and you get fined for it now.

The left has forgotten how conservative religion is usually, far more conservative than the right they hate so much.

The discussion needs to open up and stop being such a taboo if it's ever going to get fixed.

 

[Stinkles]

More fuel for the right.

I would like to know what causes this.

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Poverty and ignorance. Same as anywhere else. What people should be trying to eliminate is poverty and ignorance, rather than Pantone swatches.

 

[Sloth Guevara]

To all the concern trolling culture blamers.

The criminologist in the program has since it's airing come out and said the program is pretty much BS.

Here are some choice quotes for the islamophobes to chew on
"The program is based on an old right-wing conspiracy theory that foreign men come to Sweden and rape Swedish women and that the establishment, the PK elite, tries to hide this, he says in SVT's Morning Studio."

"According to the research available, approximately 13 percent of the women subjected to rape report it to the police. Then we know that about 15 percent of the reported rapes lead to a verdict. If you count on this, it will be about 1.5 percent of all rape in Sweden that leads to a verdict. If you have a sample of 1.5 percent you can not comment on the whole."

-" Let me take an example, let's say we have television profiles or film moguls on the one hand and newly arrived afghan boys on the other hand. Who do you think will be easier to get raped? Those who are judged are not representative of the whole material, and then it is not very meaningful to investigate this, and above all to draw conclusions about it."


https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/kriminologi-uppdrag-gransknings-program-borde-inte-sandas

 

[Deleted member 21326]

Swedes are allready to scared of admitting that theres a problem, without being called a racist. And its not like sweden is the only european country which faces these problems. Take the new years rape in Germany.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Year's_Eve_sexual_assaults_in_Germany

There is absolutely a problem and i feel sad for all the women who had to endure these horrible events. Most of them will never live a normal life again.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

To all the concern trolling culture blamers.

The criminologist in the program has since it's airing come out and said the program is pretty much BS.

Here are some choice quotes for the islamophobes to chew on
"The program is based on an old right-wing conspiracy theory that foreign men come to Sweden and rape Swedish women and that the establishment, the PK elite, tries to hide this, he says in SVT's Morning Studio."

"According to the research available, approximately 13 percent of the women subjected to rape report it to the police. Then we know that about 15 percent of the reported rapes lead to a verdict. If you count on this, it will be about 1.5 percent of all rape in Sweden that leads to a verdict. If you have a sample of 1.5 percent you can not comment on the whole."

https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/kriminologi-uppdrag-gransknings-program-borde-inte-sandas

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he also published an extensive opinion piece expanding on flaws in the study the show made. (in swedish tho)

these are his main arguments:

1. convictions is not a representative sample of committed rapes

2. existing research on other crimes shows that the culture where someone was born is not the most significant variable to explain why immigrants are overrepresented in conviction data. a more important factor is toxic masculinity sub-cultures that form when these people go away from their culture where they grew up and had certain norms imposing checks and balances on behaviour, and move into a new country. if refugees are overwhelmingly young males, and they are kept together in refugee centres after arriving here, it's quite reasonable to assume that this breeds a toxic subculture, similar to, say, date raping frat dudes in america. when american frat dudes vacation abroad and adhere to the rooshv school of "seduction", is it fair to say that americans overall are rapists and accept rape in their culture, or would you say instead that their behaviour is rather reflective of the frat boy subculture (my own example.). he raises the example of pedophile catholic priests. does catholic culture overall condone pedophilia, so that catholic priests are just confused by a society that does not? or has a toxic subculture formed in an organization that for a long time hasn't given a fuck about punishing perpetrators?

3. the program claims that the number of rapes has increased by a lot in recent years, which would then be correlated to the influx of refugees. but the professor says that the increase in reported rapes doesn't actually reflect an increase in reported rapes. rather, it reflects an evolving definition and understanding of the forms rape may take. people who say rapes have increased base this on self-reported questionnaires that ask people if they have ever experienced any sexual offences, and here an increase can definitely be seen in the last few years. but in the last few years, we have also had a lot more discussion about what rape is. in the last year, we had #metoo, but even before that, we had a lot of discussion about what enthusiastic consent really means, with movements like #prataomdet. so the increase in later years is more likely to mostly be due to people realizing that that one time back in college when you reluctantly agreed to have sex with someone just so they would stop nagging you about it that time when you were tired and too drunk to be more forceful in your rejection, may actually be considered a rape in today's climate, while it wasn't considered to be (even though it should have been of course) 10 or 20 years ago. we have increasingly moved from a toxic "not saying no means yes" mindset to a "yes means yes" mindset, and this attitude change is what is really the main explanation for this recent up-tick in self-reported rape victims.

4. finding out why certain groups are overrepresented in conviction statistics is much more interesting and relevant than just observing that they happen to be. when the issues is as complicated as it is, just saying "immigrants are over-represented", without trying to explain in a nuanced way why is misleading.

-" Let me take an example, let's say we have television profiles or film moguls on the one hand and newly arrived afghan boys on the other hand. Who do you think will be easier to get raped? Those who are judged are not representative of the whole material, and then it is not very meaningful to investigate this, and above all to draw conclusions about it."

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guessing this word is a typo? you mean convicted right?

 

[Sloth Guevara]

he also published an extensive opinion piece expanding on flaws in the study the show made. (in swedish tho)

these are his main arguments:

1. convictions is not a representative sample of committed rapes

2. existing research on other crimes shows that the culture where someone was born is not the most significant variable to explain why immigrants are overrepresented in conviction data. a more important factor is toxic masculinity sub-cultures that form when these people go away from their culture where they grew up and had certain norms imposing checks and balances on behaviour, and move into a new country. if refugees are overwhelmingly young males, and they are kept together in refugee centres after arriving here, it's quite reasonable to assume that this breeds a toxic subculture, similar to, say, date raping frat dudes in america. when american frat dudes vacation abroad and adhere to the rooshv school of "seduction", is it fair to say that americans overall are rapists and accept rape in their culture, or would you say instead that their behaviour is rather reflective of the frat boy subculture (my own example.). he raises the example of pedophile catholic priests. does catholic culture overall condone pedophilia, so that catholic priests are just confused by a society that does not? or has a toxic subculture formed in an organization that for a long time hasn't given a fuck about punishing perpetrators?

3. the program claims that the number of rapes has increased by a lot in recent years, which would then be correlated to the influx of refugees. but the professor says that the increase in reported rapes doesn't actually reflect an increase in reported rapes. rather, it reflects an evolving definition and understanding of the forms rape may take. people who say rapes have increased base this on self-reported questionnaires that ask people if they have ever experienced any sexual offences, and here an increase can definitely be seen in the last few years. but in the last few years, we have also had a lot more discussion about what rape is. in the last year, we had #metoo, but even before that, we had a lot of discussion about what enthusiastic consent really means, with movements like #prataomdet. so the increase in later years is more likely to mostly be due to people realizing that that one time back in college when you reluctantly agreed to have sex with someone just so they would stop nagging you about it that time when you were tired and too drunk to be more forceful in your rejection, may actually be considered a rape in today's climate, while it wasn't considered to be (even though it should have been of course) 10 or 20 years ago. we have increasingly moved from a toxic "not saying no means yes" mindset to a "yes means yes" mindset, and this attitude change is what is really the main explanation for this recent up-tick in self-reported rape victims.

4. finding out why certain groups are overrepresented in conviction statistics is much more interesting and relevant than just observing that they happen to be. when the issues is as complicated as it is, just saying "immigrants are over-represented", without trying to explain in a nuanced way why is misleading.

guessing this word is a typo? you mean convicted right?

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I did a quick google translate. Sorry AB the typo

 

[Sony]

I'm originally from a Middle East country (lived 99% of my life in the west) and I still have a lot of relatives in my native country who I;m still in touch with.
The perception of the west by people living in those countries is that it's a sex Paradise where the women walk half naked or with super reveiling clothes/ thongs etc. and that they want to have sex with anyone and everyone.
Literally everyone I spoke or visited me was surprised this wasn't the case.

 

[ChristopherDX]

Jesus christ what a disaster. So many lives destroyed.

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This is my take as well. I don't care about the political consequences, rape is such a horrible and disgusting thing to happen to any woman...their lives are forever changed.

 

[MidnightBarber]

More fuel for the right.

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[Feral]

If you count on this, it will be about 1.5 percent of all rape in Sweden that leads to a verdict.

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that is extremely depressing. Is that the normal conviction rate in "first world" countries?

so in the end, it's close to impossible to track these numbers and get an accurate picture? The best you can do is look at the data for reported rapes?

 

[TyrantGuardian]

Late to this thread but zzz.

It doesn't take a genius to find out why women who are sexually assaulted by "ethnic Swedes" who are presumably more often within their core social circle (spouse, boyfriend, influential mutual friend etc.) are less likely to report those crimes rather than sexual assaults committed by immigrant strangers. There are huge issues with sexual violence towards women in every place on this planet with Sweden being no exception – but there are things going on here that have literally nothing to do with where someone was born and everything to do with every single man and the way we are raised by society no matter what culture you're in. The only rapists tangential to my social circle I know of are all ethnic Swedes (I hang out with all kinds of people, before you ask). None of them were reported, much less convicted. Not even going to read into this study because it is completely irrelevant in real life.

Fuck the nazi take on these issues and please think a step further. Violent oppressive sexism is the problem and it is everywhere. Having blue eyes and blonde hair doesn't excuse your role in it, ever.