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Mr. Fantastic

Alt-account
Banned
Apr 27, 2018
3,189
You have a really hard time believing that a woman would have autonomy over her own body.

I wonder what kind of clothes she wears in her daily life.

https://www.instagram.com/sydsogood/?hl=en

a6k9IK8.png

z8dwNUC.png

Look at how she's FORCED to wear that outfit! They're even making her talk about it on Instagram!
I have been going through her IG for science and just noticed she's actually wearing this same top BEFORE she even landed the job at IGN. Like she's not even picking clothes out of something IGN lays out for her, it's her own Damn clothes lmao

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bmzs2UNlw29/?utm_source=ig_share_sheet&igshid=dawzit4s4hjx

I'm on mobile so I can't be bothered to upload a screenshot, anyone else is welcome though.
 

Hirok2099

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,399
Bro, I'm not gonna go back and read all the times you argued that IGN was forcing her to wear specific outfits or not allowing her to not be 'sexy' or making her be 'provocative'. Like, this whole thread is people arguing with you about these points.

Like, did you forget why you're in here?
Did you ever knew? why I was here or were you just picking and choosing the parts of what I wrote that fitted your argument best. I am here because i feel like ign is using the female body to sell a product and that is something that I view as Objectification.

Why are you here? to defend IGN?
So I said that she is not the boss. Neither am I but there is a huge gap between me following her bosses or manager's orders and something as dramatic as "Taking Her Agency" that is misrepresenting my argument which is that even if she is a producer it does not necessarily mean she calls the shots.
 

Kin5290

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,390
Did you read the thread? People were arguing hella hard that the thumbnails were her objectifying herself and thus adding to the problem of objectification.

Yeah, her Instagram is awesome after reading this thread.
Many of the thumbnails are totally objectification. There's a good reason why she "forgot" to button up her blouse and she's twisted around juuust enough that you can see a bit of boob. That video got something like 200k views and climbing. The one they did today where she's in less "sexy" attire? Much fewer.

Is objectification bad if the participant is willing? That depends on your viewpoint. I imagine there are a fair bit of women who think fondly of the days they could make a sizeable paycheck as a booth babe at a gaming convention, and in these more enlightened (/s) times you see the same issues with cosplay. Do you really think that the lady in the Arthas cosplay was only able to rustle up a bikini bottom and a push up bra when it came to designing her costume? Don't be ludicrous. On the other hand, am I going to say that she can't make sexy costumes for progressivism's sake? Hell no.
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,404
Canada
If people really want to know what a "good" thumbnail looks like, Netflix is actually ....really fucking good at these.
mbaRXdK.png


QzoQiPB.png


There are so many dorky ones used that are basically dumb faces paired, massive neon text, and some dumped/photoshopped visual.
 

Window

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,284
Bro, I'm not gonna go back and read all the times you argued that IGN was forcing her to wear specific outfits or not allowing her to not be 'sexy' or making her be 'provocative'. Like, this whole thread is people arguing with you about these points.

Like, did you forget why you're in here?

Yeah, you didn't seem to understand it the first time so why would you the second?

I don't even know what you want me to summarized, there's been multiple discussions in this thread. If you're not willing to actually understand what people are talking about, then I'm not willing to try and figured out what exactly it is you want me to summarize. I'm not here to do the leg work for you.
It's not my fault if you can't articulate your thoughts well and have trouble summarising your position on an argument.

Your explanation makes little sense. When you say to question if one can objectify oneself means one must believe in objectification has little to do with my original post. I said one must believe objectification can only arise when it does not include a willing participant to hold the position that objectification of women does not arise in the fashion industry, meant as an exaggerated analogy to IGN or advertising in general. The discussion surrounding this particular presenter's choice of wardrobe or social media posts (something which you have been discussing for the past few pages) is only relevant under the premise I presented. I wanted to know if you hold this position, that it's not objectification because she dresses like this all the time or is a willing employee of IGN since you replied "no one's said this" to my post. But it appears that I was asking too much.
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659
Did you ever knew? why I was here or were you just picking and choosing the parts of what I wrote that fitted your argument best. I am here because i feel like ign is using the female body to sell a product and that is something that I view as Objectification.
Can you point me to the specific part where I said she had no agency?
??????
is a producer it does not necessarily mean she calls the shots.
But she literally does when it comes to what she wears. So your whole argument that her bosses tell her what to wear is wrong.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,514
Bandung Indonesia
Uhh, does the fact whether she is forced to wear the attire or not really changes whether IGN sexualizes her or not...? Even if she is a willing participant, that doesn't necessarily mean that IGN isn't sexualizing her for their benefit, no...?
 

Deleted member 32018

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 8, 2017
7,628
So I said that she is not the boss. Neither am I but there is a huge gap between me following her bosses or manager's orders and something as dramatic as "Taking Her Agency" that is misrepresenting my argument which is that even if she is a producer it does not necessarily mean she calls the shots.

How are you not talking about "taking her agency" here:

I'm just not sure that's entirely their choice.

I wonder tho, How would girls react if the outfits on the video were their uniforms and they had to wear them?

Her choices can be nudged specially by someone who hold financial power over her



Many of the thumbnails are totally objectification. There's a good reason why she "forgot" to button up her blouse and she's twisted around juuust enough that you can see a bit of boob. That video got something like 200k views and climbing. The one they did today where she's in less "sexy" attire? Much fewer.

This is is slightly disingenuous due to the fact that the videos are about different topics and of course the video about the PS5 is going to get more views. The one today also will have less views...because it came out today.
 

Kin5290

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,390
This is is slightly disingenuous due to the fact that the videos are about different topics and of course the video about the PS5 is going to get more views. The one today also will have less views...because it came out today.
By this I mean that it's getting views at a much slower rate, which means that it'll probably level off much sooner. And both titles are PlayStation related, with the latter one being about a long requested service that Sony has finally delivered on.
 

Hirok2099

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,399
??????

But she literally does when it comes to what she wears. So your whole argument that her bosses tell her what to wear is wrong.
How do you know that? Do you know even what a producer does? you keep acussing me of claiming that I KNOW that she doesn't get to pick her wardrobe. In her specific case I don't KNOW I just know that wardrobes usually get picked by performers and actors. And what about the rest of the girls in the IGN videos, they're not producers can you tell me with certainty that they have complete freedom on how to act and what to wear?

also I never mentioned what she wears other than to reply to the people like you who kept saying. My original comment was about the way they Pose.

Even beyond that, you keep doging the issue. Are you defending IGN? Do you believe that they're clean and that the idea of using those women's looks to sell their produck (Aka get people to watch) is not objectification?
 

Deleted member 32018

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 8, 2017
7,628
Even beyond that, you keep doging the issue. Are you defending IGN? Do you believe that they're clean and that the idea of using those women's looks to sell their produck (Aka get people to watch) is not objectification?

No one is defending IGN, they are quite welcome to do that themselves if they so chose. People here, myself included, are calling you out on your shitty argument, that is all.

By this I mean that it's getting views at a much slower rate, which means that it'll probably level off much sooner. And both titles are PlayStation related, with the latter one being about a long requested service that Sony has finally delivered on.

Well first of all a new console is still bigger news than name changing imo and secondly sure you could say that the views could have gone up based on her attire. That isn't her fault though, or possibly IGN's, it's just that the target audience of the videos they create (young men) are drawn more to attractive women, who by chance, was wearing something slightly more revealing than the day before.
 

Hirok2099

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,399
How are you not talking about "taking her agency" .
Do you take everything to the extreme? I said not entirely her choice that does not mean she is forced or cohered it can mean she is convinced or that it was part of the job description of her JOB do you take everytime that your boss makes a request to you as him taking away your agency? No! because you can still refuse it just like she can.

The comment about the uniforms was not even talking about her, and on the last one I specifically said nudged and if you have quoted the whole thing incentiviced. You mean to tell me that if use my money to "incentivice" a seller to give me his product I'm taking away his agency? You guys being extremist and purposely misrepresenting what I'm saying
 

Einchy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
42,659
How do you know that? Do you know even what a producer does? you keep acussing me of claiming that I KNOW that she doesn't get to pick her wardrobe. In her specific case I don't KNOW I just know that wardrobes usually get picked by performers and actors. And what about the rest of the girls in the IGN videos, they're not producers can you tell me with certainty that they have complete freedom on how to act and what to wear?
I linked to you her instagram where she's wearing the same clothes in real life that she wears in her videos. Those are her clothes, not clothes IGN picked out for her. Someone also linked that she had those clothes BEFORE being hired by IGN. So unless IGN is going into her house and telling her "hey, wear X today" then I don't know what is it you think is happening there. She just wears what she wants and that's what's in the episode.
also I never mentioned what she wears other than to reply to the people like you who kept saying. My original comment was about the way they Pose.
You mean the normal ass poses that you tried to claim her provocative? Yeah, that was completely and utterly ridiculous. That really showed us how screwy your perspective is on this.
Even beyond that, you keep doging the issue. Are you defending IGN? Do you believe that they're clean and that the idea of using those women's looks to sell their produck (Aka get people to watch) is not objectification?
Well, first the argument was that she was purposely objectifying herself in those thumbnails and that this was an issue. So, no, I've been defending her and her rights to have her own agency from the get go.

IGN has nothing to do with this because they're not making her do anything, this is all about her and her decisions, decisions that I feel she has every right to make without a bunch of dudes telling her, "nah, you're part of the problem".
 

Hirok2099

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,399
No one is defending IGN, they are quite welcome to do that themselves if they so chose. People here, myself included, are calling you out on your shitty argument, that is all.
What argument specifically? My original argument was that the thumbnails made me think IGN was objectifying women and bits and pieces have been taken out of there and misconstrued into somehow I guess me thinking that she should not wear that? or that I somehow blame the one girl for all of the IGN thumbnails?
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,404
Canada
Uhh, does the fact whether she is forced to wear the attire or not really changes whether IGN sexualizes her or not...? Even if she is a willing participant, that doesn't necessarily mean that IGN isn't sexualizing her for their benefit, no...?

yep.

It's a big ol' circle. Sex sells, so people keep using it, and it gives good people good work (who are liked and admired for perhaps dubious reasons), but it reifies an idea of a commodified people. You become a brand, you're some sort of icon (I'm not trying to fluff up anyone here in particular, but any big-enough YT personality or host or celebrity can...feel this way, can't they?)

Regardless of the discourse you got about thumbnails, no part of it probably didn't happen by mistake, wardrobe included. And no doubt IGN was excited to have some gorgeous hires for their video components (if they didn't already look for a good face), and hey look, it worked, people responded well to them, and there's certainly more knockout babes for their segments than an equivalent male model fitting that role. The fellas look way more "everyday".

I honestly don't mind moving away from thumbnail talk (I don't think they're overly sexualized even if the reason for using an attractive female host is otherwise obvious), I sorta wanna go little off-topic, but I feel SNK Heroines and games of this sorta thing is that male gaze on high:
snk-1-1.jpg



While I don't usually mind self-aware and self-indulgent fantasy junk like this, it's pretty damn obvious why this game exists and for whom it exists. Stuff on this level and budget barely exist for women, but stuff like this for straight dudes is....a little more par for course in some ways (we get it men, y'all like your titties).

Transformers-Moon-Carly.jpg


This shit was in Transformers, a shot you'd never see for a dude.

latest


There's also a fun double-standard in cartoon art that has women tend to take on "pretty" traits over caricature. Maybe in small ways this sort of idea gets seen again in selfie or Instagram culture of people seeking to be 'perfect' (Instagram modeling is, for real, no joke about setting up that perfect shot for a long ass time) or where you got more "normal faces" for female YT thumbnails and more goofy ones afforded to male ones.

Still, we're super visual beings. Sexualization exists because it's some sort of eye-catch that....well unfortunately exists in a world where women are both probably the more ogled sex (by both men AND women)...and the more harassed. But there is no doubt, the world over, across multiple forms of media and encouraged by both producers, content-creators, and societal cues of "what sells" (sex!) that goes into this, and, again, it's a big ol' circle, none of it isolated.

It's good/important to be critical of our media; so again I'm sad the responses here are so...boring and dismissive and a lot tantamount to "let her do what she wants". :/
 
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Deleted member 32018

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 8, 2017
7,628
Do you take everything to the extreme? I said not entirely her choice that does not mean she is forced or cohered it can mean she is convinced or that it was part of the job description of her JOB do you take everytime that your boss makes a request to you as him taking away your agency? No! because you can still refuse it just like she can.

The comment about the uniforms was not even talking about her, and on the last one I specifically said nudged and if you have quoted the whole thing incentiviced. You mean to tell me that if use my money to "incentivice" a seller to give me his product I'm taking away his agency? You guys being extremist and purposely misrepresenting what I'm saying

At this point you are just doubling down on your argument. I gave the examples you requested. Saying "Do you take everything to the extreme?" to everyone that calls you out is not an intelligent comeback I'm afraid. This will just go around in circles so it's pointless to continue. This thread should have been locked hours ago as it has devolved into men arguing with other men about a subject where we as men are the problem anyway so it's a pointless discussion to have due to not having many opinions from women in here.
 

Zomba13

#1 Waluigi Fan! Current Status: Crying
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,950
I'd like to hear her thoughts on it first. Does she feel pressured, does she get to pick her wardrobe, OK the thumbnails, get support/backup if trolls and idiots are bothering her, etc. If she's running the show and enjoys her work, though, more power to her.

This is my feelings on it. If it's a guy at IGN saying "No! Look SEXIER!" when taking shots for the thumbnail then it's sleazy and yeah, objectifying, but if it's her knowing that how she looks and what she wears can get people to click the video and using it to her advantage then I think it's fine.

Obviously there are a bunch of horny teens that go on youtube and like games and geeky stuff and if they see a pretty lady on a video about something they like (because it's recommended by algorithms and all that) then I think some are more likely to click it over a boring looking thumbnail without a person and just an image from like, Venom or something. And I imagine IGN see that thumbnails like these work so I can see them asking her to do more, but if she is ok with it (or even came up with it) then I can't get mad at her. I've not read the comments (because youtube comments + pretty lady) but I can imagine some of the sexist shit said down there so either way, if it's her choice or mandated by whoever edits the show/uploads it, that sucks.
 

Heraldic

Prophet of Regret
The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
1,633
while y'all clutching your pearls she uploaded this to her ig 5 hours ago lol

B22jNle.jpg


can someone objectify themselves, and if yes, is it valid criticism?

Your attempting to seperate the commercization and commodification of the female body from that of of her own individual choice outside of work. Of course she is free to wear whatever she desires. But within the context of consumerist capitalism, it's an attempt to profit by sexualizing, and therefore objectifying her body.

At that point her body becomes the sole focus (within the capitalistic framework) and in turn diminishes the intellectual, and emotional aspect of her personhood I.e, we don't want to hear what your thoughts are on video games, just show us your body in a negligee, and parts of your breasts and we'll participate. She is now simply a (body) intended to arouse in order to gain views.

Your also attempting to seperate the apparent objectification from the greater context http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/11/13/a-statement-from-the-ign-tea. IGN has a well documented history of sexual harassment. So when paired together with their history of objectifying women this leads credence to my argument.

As far as her being her own producer and content provider she herself is making a conscious decision to participate in IGNs continuing sexualization and objectification of females for profit. Yes, this is her decision, and yes within capitalism the commodification of females bodies for profit occurs, but call it for what it is.
 

Hirok2099

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,399
IGN has nothing to do with this because they're not making her do anything.
Bull,
sure, if you go keep going to the extremes terms like "MAKING HER" or "PICKING HER CLOTHES" or "TAKING HER AGENCY" you make those on the other side of the argument sound bad.
Yet you keep acting like an employer has a a say on how their employees dress, act and what they do while I work either because of what they request or because they hire those who will do the work they want.
IGN simply wanted a female body to attract the male gaze and they were going to get it being either her, someone else or a frigging drawing.
It's IGN that's in the wrong here, not her and I never once pushed any fault on her.
 

Dice

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,404
Canada
... I've not read the comments (because youtube comments + pretty lady) but I can imagine some of the sexist shit said down there so either way, if it's her choice or mandated by whoever edits the show/uploads it, that sucks.

I think your last bit is sorta the problem.

I don't know what "level" to take YouTube Commentary seriously, but if even remotely then we got a huge problem in some ugly underbelly of society. Videos on ACTUALLY "controversial" topics are some scary shit (fuck I remember some cereal ad with biracial parents or the gay dads feeding their kid Campbell's Soup had nothing but poison verbiage in the comment section)

Is there ALWAYS "choice" when clicks/views are on the line?

Your attempting to seperate the commercization and commodification of the female body from that of of her own individual choice outside of work. Of course she is free to wear whatever she desires. But within the context of consumerist capitalism, it's an attempt to profit by sexualizing, and therefore objectifying her body.

At that point her body becomes the sole focus (within the capitalistic framework) and in turn diminishes the intellectual, and emotional aspect of her personhood I.e, we don't want to hear what your thoughts are on video games, just show us your body in a negligee, and parts of your breasts and we'll participate. She is now simply a (body) intended to arouse in order to gain views.

Your also attempting to seperate the apparent objectification from the greater context http://www.ign.com/articles/2017/11/13/a-statement-from-the-ign-tea. IGN has a well documented history of sexual harassment. So when paired together with their history of objectifying women this leads credence to my argument.

As far as her being her own producer and content provider she herself is making a conscious decision to participate in IGNs continuing sexualization and objectification of females for profit. Yes, this is her decision, and yes within capitalism the commodification of females bodies for profit occurs, but call it for what it is.

Bravo

I don't doubt half the women playing the role of "pin-up" model see it as earning a buck of men's apparent thirst for these visuals. And we literally feed into that economy even when it is damaging on some level to both parties.
 

Seesaw15

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,819
Uhh, does the fact whether she is forced to wear the attire or not really changes whether IGN sexualizes her or not...? Even if she is a willing participant, that doesn't necessarily mean that IGN isn't sexualizing her for their benefit, no...?

I thought the premise of this thread is whether IGN was objectifying their female hosts? If someone sexualizes themselves they are just choosing to bring sexual aspects to the forefront. If someone is being objectified that sexual aspect is viewed as the only important thing about the person turning them essentially into an object.

All the previous female IGN host have been attractive but they've also been allowed to show case their personalities/sense of humor and really shape the show. Sydnee Goodman seems to have caught OP's eye because her wardrobe includes a lot of crop tops, off the shoulder tops, sheer blouses and basically just well fitting clothing that you'd see on any college campus or major metropolitan city. IGN is clearly hiring attractive host to draw people in but I don't buy the argument that Sydnee's own wardrobe is objectifying her. She just looks trendy.
 
Oct 27, 2017
11,514
Bandung Indonesia
I thought the premise of this thread is whether IGN was objectifying their female hosts? If someone sexualizes themselves they are just choosing to bring sexual aspects to the forefront. If someone is being objectified that sexual aspect is viewed as the only important thing about the person turning them essentially into an object.

All the previous female IGN host have been attractive but they've also been allowed to show case their personalities/sense of humor and really shape the show. Sydnee Goodman seems to have caught OP's eye because her wardrobe includes a lot of crop tops, off the shoulder tops, sheer blouses and basically just well fitting clothing that you'd see on any college campus or major metropolitan city. IGN is clearly hiring attractive host to draw people in but I don't buy the argument that Sydnee's own wardrobe is objectifying her. She just looks trendy.

Well, the fact alone that she was hired in major part because of her attractiveness and then how in the thumbnails and the videos themselves that attractiveness is pushed forward in order to promote IGN content... Isn't that objectification and sexualization in itself?
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,688
Is the argument in this specific case that IGN is making her wear those clothes or that they are failing at making wear more modest clothes in those videos?
 

Window

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,284
You're not crazy, this entire thread has been a bizarre and very dedicated deflection away from talking about IGN.
This is what I meant by this thread is weird. Rather than discuss if IGN is objectifying women, the past few pages have been about the presenter's wardrobe and looking through her ig ("for science") to claim she's okay with the website's content and therefore it's not objectification. I guess that makes sense if you believe objectification only arises under coercion or even that it's okay to objectify if it includes willing participants. One can certainly hold that position but then the discussion should be about this topic, not this back and forth bickering over who's right about the presenter's choice of wardrobe.
 

Seesaw15

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,819
Well, the fact alone that she was hired in major part because of her attractiveness and then how in the thumbnails and the videos themselves that attractiveness is pushed forward in order to promote IGN content... Isn't that objectification and sexualization in itself?

Once again I'm not arguing that IGN isn't using sexuality to get views on their content. I'm just not convinced that including some sexuality into a humor based broadcasting job automatically dehumanizes a person.
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,421
I mean, can you find a single Female host for The Fix who is not above a certain level of attractiveness?

I want actual evidence. Some document from IGN saying that they'll only hire attractive women or someone from there saying that. Otherwise it seems rather interesting how while attempting to defend women some have no problem boiling their qualifications down to their appearance.
 

Window

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,284
I want actual evidence. Some document from IGN saying that they'll only hire attractive women or someone from there saying that. Otherwise it seems rather interesting how while attempting to defend women some have no problem boiling their qualifications down to their appearance.
This is a poor argument. Can you present to me contracts to prove news anchors, actors or presenter's in media aren't recruited based on their attractiveness? Of course they are. That's not to say that's the only quality which is important for the position but it's undoubtedly a factor. Point being made is that this decision bias is stronger against women than men. No contract will state this.
 

Hirok2099

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,399
I want actual evidence. Some document from IGN saying that they'll only hire attractive women or someone from there saying that. Otherwise it seems rather interesting how while attempting to defend women some have no problem boiling their qualifications down to their appearance.
No you're asking for unobtainable evidence because even if a company had an actual document like that they would not allow it to be public in any shape or form and you know this.
On the other hand I'm telling you that while the show is hosted by male performers of all shapes and sizes the females all seem to all fall within a single body type.
Is it concrete evidence? no, but it sure is a good reason to believe that IGN looks for a specific type of woman to host it's show.
 

Hirok2099

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,399
While you probably didn't have any ill intentions lets not introduce the idea of ranking IGN host on their level of attractiveness.
giphy.gif
Well, there is a so called Standard of beauty, It is not a good thing that it is exist but it does and it belongs in this conversation because it is the way that women are being judged for jobs that require "atractiveness"
Hell, women still being objectified IS the reason why to this day the standard of beauty still exists.
 

Rover

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,421
I want actual evidence. Some document from IGN saying that they'll only hire attractive women or someone from there saying that. Otherwise it seems rather interesting how while attempting to defend women some have no problem boiling their qualifications down to their appearance.

It's honestly exhausting when people like you come in to debate and warp plain facts and a very basic premise. IGN presents women in their image and video content differently than they present men. Don't waste anybody's time with this "actually you're the real sexists" stuff.
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,421
No you're asking for unobtainable evidence because even if a company had an actual document like that they would not allow it to be public in any shape or form and you know this.
On the other hand I'm telling you that while the show is hosted by male performers of all shapes and sizes the females all seem to all fall within a single body type.
Is it concrete evidence? no, but it sure is a good reason to believe that IGN looks for a specific type of woman to host it's show.

Then don't make accusations that you can't back up.

It's honestly exhausting when people like you come in to debate and warp plain facts and a very basic premise. IGN presents women in their image and video content differently than they present men. Don't waste anybody's time with this "actually you're the real sexists" stuff.

I'm simply asking them to back up their claims. If you can make them then you sure as hell should be able to back them up with actual evidence. I'm not sure why that should go out the window with this situation when it doesn't with others.
 

Rover

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,421
I'm simply asking them to back up their claims. If you can make them then you sure as hell should be able to back them up with actual evidence. I'm not sure why that should go out the window with this situation when it doesn't with others.

Simply open your eyes, then. Look at this lineup(better yet, read the post). It really shouldn't be hard to see the pattern.

Not only is the proof you're asking for silly, it's unnecessary and shouldn't be up for debate.
 

Window

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,284
Are recruitment biases stipulated in employment contracts in the US? I would make a guess they're not. Does this mean there's no evidence of bias then?
 

Wackamole

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,942
Is Era objectifying women?

I don't think you realize how creepy this thread is..
 
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cervanky

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,296
I had a look and out of the first 500 posts in this thread, 71% (355 posts) were by users identifying as men, 25% (125 posts) were by users not specifying their gender or identifying as non-binary or other, and 4% (20 posts) were by women. I'm assuming that pattern more or less holds for the rest of the thread. A proportion of those users not specifying their gender may or may not identify as men, so that 71% might be higher.

I read through the majority of this thread and there are absolutely great points made by people of all gender identities. I'm just unnerved by how much of it consists of dudes talking about whether or not it's okay for a woman to use her looks to get clicks. It's sometimes like a patriarchal council meeting on objectification and exploitation. Maybe it can't be helped, it is what it is with this forum's demographics, but that we're talking about individual people working at IGN and other outlets can make this whole thing feel pretty gross. Outside of some of the nuanced discussion, and there certainly is in this thread by men, women, and others, it's mostly hundreds of posts by guys about how this woman should pose, how much clothing she should wear, and if she's part of the problem with the choices she's making.
 
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adrem007

Banned
Nov 26, 2017
2,679
I read through the majority of this thread and there are absolutely great points made by people of all gender identities. I'm just unnerved by how much of it consists of dudes talking about whether or not it's okay for a woman to use her looks to get clicks. It's sometimes like a patriarchal council meeting on objectification and exploitation. It can't be helped, it is what it is with this forum's demographics, but that we're talking about individual people with their names out their and a whole livelihood can make this whole thing feel pretty gross. Outside of some of the nuanced discussion, and there certainly is in this thread by men, women, and others, it's mostly hundreds of posts by guys about how this woman should pose, how much clothing she should wear, and if she's part of the problem with the choices she's making.

Majority of people here is telling that she should wear whatever the hell she wants. If that's gross to you then I don't even know anymore
 

cervanky

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,296
Majority of people here is telling that she should wear whatever the hell she wants. If that's gross to you then I don't even know anymore
I didn't say it's gross that people are saying she can wear whatever she wants. I'm saying that that it's a discussion at all with this specific example of a woman working at IGN in a thread with over 1000 posts doesn't sit right with me. I'm aware she's a public figure but she's chiefly a producer, what doesn't seem right is hundreds of posts by mostly men discussing their opinion on what Sydnee Goodman wears, how Sydnee Goodman poses, if Sydnee Goodman is being exploited for how she presents herself and her innate physical attractiveness, whether they approve of it or not. The past couple pages has people looking over her Instagram now as evidence of her agency and comparing that to her presentation on IGN. Why the fuck is she individually a case study?
 
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adrem007

Banned
Nov 26, 2017
2,679
I didn't say it's gross that people are saying she can wear whatever she wants. I'm saying that that it's a discussion at all with this specific example of a woman working at IGN in a thread with over 1000 posts doesn't sit right with me. I'm aware she's a public figure but she's chiefly a producer, what doesn't seem right is hundreds of posts by mostly men discussing their opinion on what Sydnee Goodman wears, how Sydnee Goodman poses, if Sydnee Goodman is being exploited for how she presents herself and her innate physical attractiveness, whether they approve of it or not. The past couple pages has people looking over her Instagram now as evidence of her agency and comparing that to her presentation on IGN. Why the fuck is she individually a case study?

Because the OP chose the IGN as one of the sources of the problem and it's hard to discuss without examples? And I don't agree about the discussion itself being gross, what's gross is those dudes who are telling her that her clothes are too tight-fitting or that IGN should only use her face in thumbnails
 

Wintermute

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,051
buncha blokes all talking about what is or isnt appropriate for women to wear, going and hunting for peoples IGs.

era has some way to go. do yourselves a favour and just lock this thread.

yuck.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
I honestly think some of the guys on this forum would be the kinds of "progressives" who would look at their own girlfriend or wife in the morning and go "Ughh, yeah, do you really think that's the kind of thing you should be wearing when you go outside?". When she's wearing a fucking blouse or crop top along with jeans or a skirt.

I literally cannot understand how ironically creepy and regressive some of the guys on this forum can be whilst literally thinking you are being progressive. Why can't you leave people the fuck alone if they're doing nothing wrong? Why can't your brain separate a real example of someone potentially being forced, abused, used and so on from genuine autonomy/agency and someone just having a bit of fun?

Yeah, one can argue beauty privilege may well exist, and some people are hyper-confident and happy to express themselves in public or for attention. But guess what? Who gives a shit? Focus on your own life rather than projecting negativity, ironically hate and also not actually being progressive but regressive. Yeah, self-confidence can be a motherfucker, and it's easy to be jealous or envious. But guess what, we, you or I need to handle those things in productive ways. Get help, try your best, be positive, not unfairly and viciously target other people. This topic has largely literally devolved into still arguing about this one woman and still suggesting because of two fairly ordinary outfits she should crop or remove herself from her own damn content. How can you not see how that sounds like something that would be read on Catholic/incel-central even if you are saying "but we have progressive intent!"

Yeah, we can't all look like supermodels and we don't all get the lucky break with genes. But what you can do is take care of yourself the best you can, grow your confidence and importantly have a damn decent personality. That'll take you far even if you don't look like Miss America, have well-endowed breasts or pack a 9" penis (Era average of course) or whatever. What won't help you is firing off into not being progressive and pointing out real injustices in life and societal issues, but being a moral busybody regressive that beats the wrong people over the head and tries to shame a damn random woman into cropping her own YT thumbnails because YOU have a problem with it. In this case, she clearly doesn't/evidence shows IGN not forcing, it's YOUR problem.

I didn't think I'd wake up to some of what the last few pages brought. Some of you guys are as far from being progressive here as possible. Leave the damn woman alone given the information and evidence that's been provided and move onto better targets. It actually appears like some sort of troll accounts posting utter nonsense to then make Resetera look ridiculous, but that's an easy out, when the reality is some of you, in fact, most of you, probably are genuine. In which case, go away and think about your contributions here, really think about it, and not just continue to sacrifice at the altar of "well, I need to sound progressive on an internet forum so people know I'm a good person". Some of you are not sounding progressive here, minus your generic contributions to saying objectification is a real thing. Yeah, and like 99% of this topic never said otherwise and agrees.

You (as in a few of you) are literally behaving like this with your massive overcorrection, inability to accept evidence I guess outside of a few posts in here moving onto a general discussion of real issues, this could be another example of "extreme wokeness"



"THE GREATER GOOD"

When you think you're being progressive, but you're actually leading what almost looks like a targetted campaign to tell a random woman to know her place/dress more modestly/not have any fun whatsoever with her own agency. I'll finish on it again, is this some sort of extremely religious community I've logged into where we can talk about any tight clothing or clothing not loose enough on a womans body? What about knee length skirts? We better be shooting for those ankle length ones. For the greater good.
 
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