Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
Being a centrist is the sensible, pragmatic option. Radical black-or-white thinking only serves to widen the gulf between people and creates the current climate we're in where everything devolves into a shouting match and no one even makes an attempt to understand the other person's viewpoint.
This is absurd. Talking about the US centrism literally makes no sense for two huge reasons.

1) The wide divide in issues. To be a centrist in the US means you have 0 strong opinions or convictions. You're telling me you don't have any opinions on LGBT rights, healthcare, the military etc.? You're either ignorant or just a blob husk of a human being with no actual opinions.

2) The way the US is set up is always going to favor 2 political parties so centrism does not work in federal elections. The voting system favors 2 parties, the way congress is set up favors 2 parties. You can't be a centrist when congress literally divides itself on political parties. Ask how many centrist politicians would be willing to vote for the opposing party to be the speaker of the house or set up congress to favor the opposing party in committees, committee chairs etc.

Absolutely baffling, centrism in the US makes less sense than being part of the far right because at least they have actual viewpoints and work towards goals. There's a difference between being a moderate and being a "centrist" who doesn't align themselves with a political party more than the other when it comes to stuff that actually matters. It's just faux-intellectual grandstanding and it drives me insane.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,562
I'm a left-of-center centrist.

I hold strong, ideological or rational (at least, I think they're rational...) opinions, that are generally left wing, but not all of my opinions fall into a strictly left wing bucket (and honestly I disagree ideologically with the concept of a "left wing bucket," but have to put up with it for the sake of conversation), but I still believe most of them fairly strongly, or with what I think is a solid foundation. That being said, I'm willing to let reality intrude on my preconception, something that is very, very threatening to most ideological purists, and most ideological purists would prefer to lash out in aggression at someone rather than resolve the conflict between reality and their opinion.

Many people think that a centrist is someone who puts their arms up and says, "Eh, I don't know who to blame?" or "Eh, I don't know who is right and wrong!" but, for me, I have a solid belief in who is to blame and a solid belief in who is right and wrong. Being a centrist doesn't mean you have no strong opinions, being a centrist means that you can have very strong opinions about reality but don't think that they fit convenient into a left/right, progressive/conservative, authoritarian/liberty dichotomy. For instance, there's nothing strictly progressive about the legality of drugs, and there's nothing strictly conservative about the legality of drugs. Legal drugs would fit very conveniently into a far-right libertarian conservative ideology: Let the market decide if drugs should be legal or not, and it would even fit into an individualists ideology. But, my view on legal drugs is that most drugs should be legal, but as a society we have to be equipped to to handle the consequences through market regulation, government oversight, and social welfare. So, in one sense, I'm conservative individualist focused on liberty: I want the the market to determine the efficacy of drugs, yet, in another sense, I want a government institution to oversee the production, sale, consumption, and social effect of drugs, which is trending towards a left-of-center statist ideology. I believe this very strong, I think that the war on drugs (generally a conservative program) is fucking stupid and makes the world worse; and yet, I don't think that there is no consequence for drugs, I think that their existence creates a social obligation that the government should fill, the very thing that I'm criticizing for how it's overseen drug regulation. This is a left-of-center centrist point of view, it's recognizing that there is value in individual liberty (oh no!), there is a place for the market (capitalist pig!) and yet, it believes that government is the best tool to fulfill the social responsibility of those consequences (radical socialist nanny-stater!). And I hold this opinion fairly strongly, though, I am willing to change my opinion when confronted with reality something that ideological purists typically aren't equipped to do, because challenging your own strongly held notion of something is a very very uncomfortable, threatening thing to our egos (this is called "learning" and "maturing"). Some people might look at my position on drugs and say, "oh, that's not a centrist position, that's a progressive, liberal position through and through," and you'd be wrong: you're taking an idea that you probably agree with and bending the definition of statism, or government authority, or individual freedom, or anything else, to adapt to what you think you are because that's less threatening to your ego.

I think a lot of people misconstrue how a centrist might be comfortable in their opinions, and they think, "Well centrists are middle of the road, 'why upset the apple cart' because they want to be comfortable." It's the opposite. IT's very uncomfortable to have your ideological biases challenged and be willing to challenge them yourself, where as it is very comfortable to retreat into a strong bias. There's a strong psychological and physiological basis for this too, where past studies on confirmation bias have shown similar reactions in brain chemicals to getting your first hit of a drug as you're going into withdrawal. This is why Fox News exists, because it's a safe place for conservatives who want to seek comfort, because the world of reality -- expressed by the "centrist" New York Times (which it isn't by the way, it's just good reporting, again, good reporting isn't left/center/right) -- is an uncomfortable place where your biases are challenged.

There's an overwhelming compulsion to reduce everything to a left vs. right, conservative vs. progressive, etc., dichotomy, and I just don't subject myself to that. I think it's really stupid, not productive at all, and at odds with reality. But because our politics is so tribalistic today more so than it ever has been, it's getting reductive to the point of idiocy. For instance, if I said, "Both conservatives and progressive play this tribalistic game where they reduce everything to the point of un-reality," I'm sure there's a solid... 10% of people at this forum who would quote that sentence and say something to the effect of, "Ugh I'm so sick of this both-sideism, so you think that putting children in cages and having nazis marching in the street is okay??" -- completely validating my point.

We're so reductive that we're making ourselves stupider, incapable of actually talking about ideas, policy, and issues. Unfortunately, it is a centrist opinion to not be reductive anymore, to recognize nuance in opinion and nuance in other genuine good-natured people. It's sad and embarrassing that it's generally those closer to the center, from the political extremes, that recognize this reality while so many others are so trapped in groupthink that scoring points calling a centrist a nazi or a nazi enabler (or, making 'nazi' and 'nazi enabler' synonymous) is something that gives them mental comfort. Now, obviously the right is way worse about this than the left, but lately especially in the social circles I float in, the modern left has borrowed the reductive idiocy of the classic right and is trying to use it to pursue their own ideology purity.

I think this recent disdain from the further left for "Liberals" is a symptom of this social disease, too. There are so many threads about ideology where someone thinks it's a cogent point to say something like "Ugh, Liberals are gross" or "Neoliberals are gross," and I want to be like "... do you even know what the words you're using mean... or are you just saying them to feel good about how tribalistic you are?"
 
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Maurice Hamblin

User Requested Ban
Banned
Apr 6, 2018
667
I take issues on an individual level so while I lean liberal, I recognize the idiocy on both sides and I'm able to see both aspects of SOME arguments. I'm not entirely sure what to call myself so I say I'm "liberal I guess". Not sure if that's considered centrist or not.
 

AndyD

Mambo Number PS5
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,602
Nashville
Moderate politic views are fine in a rational society. Republicans are so far right ATM that anything sympathetic to them is still very very conservative.
This. Centrism as an idea is OK, but purposeful centrism in an assymetrical system is partisan in an of itself. I think this Obama/Republicans comic illustrates it very well. By intentionally staying in the center, you are actively shifting right.

Political%200002.jpg
 

jackal27

Member
Oct 25, 2017
940
Joplin, MO
It depends on the season and what kind of centrist we're talking about here. I consider myself centrist, but I've also voted blue all the way down the US ballot for the last decade because of what one side of that ballot looks like.

That said, I don't think it's necesarily wise to align yourself too tightly with one party, group, or organization, because there are always going to be cracks, splits, and eventually maybe even complete shifts in ideology and operation.

If you think there aren't greedy or terrifying people in the Democratic Party, you're nuts.

Just today a report went out that Democrats trust Amazon more than any other organization in the US. A company that should probably be under investigation for human rights violations.

Yeah "both sides" arguments a fucking stupid in the face what's happening in our country, but it's also lazy and dangerous to shape your identity around the talking points of one political party.
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,388
Makes sense, sorry about the misunderstanding. I'm from the UK, where for all intents and purposes it's a 2 party system because there's only two with a large enough support base to matter, but there ARE other parties if you feel the need, and people who aren't happy with either main party will sometimes vote for another just as a kind of protest. But you're right, if you have an opinion that isn't matched by a party, you won't be represented and don't matter in the grand scheme of things.

It's definitely a flawed system to be sure. People such as myself may come across as too "black and white", but the system is essentially set up that way. There's pretty much no room for nuance.
 

nextJin

Member
Mar 17, 2018
455
Georgia
Yup. When I was a teenager, I used to call myself socially liberal and fiscally moderate because I didn't actually understand economics or sociology. The people who play that card as adults are either painfully ignorant or just trying to hide their bad shit.

What's being financially conservative mean to you? There's nothing wrong with wanting sane spending habits and tax cuts (assuming it's not directed at the top 1% only). Tax cuts don't have to take away from Medicare, Social Security or other prominent programs. They could take away from Defense spending or asinine pork barrel line items.

Is a tax cut for the bottom 50% and defense spending cut to offset that a bad thing?

Hypothetical of course but one saying they are fiscally conservative doesn't mean fuck the poor cut taxes for the rich and take away from social programs. Well at least not everyone.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
119,013
What's being financially conservative mean to you? There's nothing wrong with wanting sane spending habits and tax cuts (assuming it's not directed at the top 1% only). Tax cuts don't have to take away from Medicare, Social Security or other prominent programs. They could take away from Defense spending or asinine pork barrel line items.

Is a tax cut for the bottom 50% and defense spending cut to offset that a bad thing?

Hypothetical of course but one saying they are fiscally conservative doesn't mean fuck the poor cut taxes for the rich and take away from social programs. Well at least not everyone.

Conservative ideology and tax cuts aren't compatible with a society that supports its disenfranchised citizens with social programs. Those tax cuts erase the budget we need in order to fund the programs that take care of our people.

If there was a fiscal conservative who was also for massive pull-backs in military spending to make up for the amount of government funding lost by tax cuts, that'd be one thing, but there are no anti-war conservatives.
 

Amory

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,161
What's being financially conservative mean to you? There's nothing wrong with wanting sane spending habits and tax cuts (assuming it's not directed at the top 1% only). Tax cuts don't have to take away from Medicare, Social Security or other prominent programs. They could take away from Defense spending or asinine pork barrel line items.

Is a tax cut for the bottom 50% and defense spending cut to offset that a bad thing?

Hypothetical of course but one saying they are fiscally conservative doesn't mean fuck the poor cut taxes for the rich and take away from social programs. Well at least not everyone.
This is where I'm at. Im not for massive expansions in entitlement spending, but at this point it's either getting spent on entitlements or bullets and tax cuts for rich assholes. So I guess I'd at least take the entitlements.
 

Prax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,765
I consider myself centrist or at least fairly milquetoast in views (what I think is "common sense" and practial to me), but it appears that evidence-based decision making is some extreme lefty thing given how people on the right tend to villainize it.

So even if I consider myself centrist, the poltical climate is such that I'm probably just seen as very leftist.
 

John Doe

Avenger
Jan 24, 2018
3,443
What if I'm for same-sex marriage but I'm against recreational drug use? Am I a conservative or a liberal?

People are not computer that think in binary terms.

Also for goodness sakes, USA is not the center of the universe. Stop using American rheteoric to 'judge' the world.

This is no difference than 'if you are not with us, you are against us' type of proclamation that Bush spouted.

What do you mean against recreational drug use? Do you want to keep all other drugs including weed criminalized? You know about the abject failure that the War on Drugs has been right?

If you're personally against drug use, that doesn't mean you have to push your own personal morality on the entire country if you're a politician. Which is also another problem, political policies become about morality of a few.

Okay, an actual example of centrism.
The right want more military spending, because the right always want more military spending.
The left want more spending on social benefits, because the left always want more spending on social benefits.

An example centrist solution would be to increase funding to the military engineering corps, and as part of their training they build low income government housing at home before going abroad.
The right are happy because they get more military spending, but they're not entirely happy because they wanted more guns not more engineers.
The left are happy because they get low income social housing, but they're not entirely happy because its still military spending at the expense of social welfare spending.

Hos is this an example of a centrist policy? How is military spending a right wing policy when everyone on both sides of the aisle generally supports it?


It doesn't even make any real economic sense. What do military guys know about building housing? I wager nothing. So you have to spend money training them to build this low-income housing, when you could just simply give that money to whatever government department handles that stuff and let them do it at a lower cost.
 

Boiled Goose

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
9,999
I think calling yourself a centrist is intellectually lazy.

It's this desire to appear reasonable by being moderate and not extreme. What's intellectually sound though is believing what is true. Not what's in the middle
 

Baji Boxer

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,425
People pay far too much attention to labels.

Government sponsored healthcare, LGBT rights, minority rights and university education should not be "Leftist" issues. They shouldn't even be political issues.

They should just be accepted by everyone regardless of political affiliation.

But this is just me wanting a perfect world.
Good point. A lot of what drove me left was just simple acceptance of reality. It's more that the conservatives have decided to cede simple facts and issues of right and wrong to their opponents.
 

nextJin

Member
Mar 17, 2018
455
Georgia
Conservative ideology and tax cuts aren't compatible with a society that supports its disenfranchised citizens with social programs. Those tax cuts erase the budget we need in order to fund the programs that take care of our people.

If there was a fiscal conservative who was also for massive pull-backs in military spending to make up for the amount of government funding lost by tax cuts, that'd be one thing, but there are no anti-war conservatives.

There are elected conservatives for cuts in military though, there are also a large minority who believe that.

All I'm saying is that if someone says they believe in individual rights (LGBTQ+, Women's, POC, etc.), pro choice, immigration, etc but also believe as I stated above people can't just say Fuck you you're (whatever). It doesn't work like that.

It is a position someone can hold and still dislike Trump and truthfully even the GOP as a whole. As a party they most definitely don't have that platform but Democrats don't either.

I think that ties in with the OP and maybe a few other posters from earlier. Just because you say you're a centrist doesn't mean you don't challenge the GOP on important issues when you can't fully support the DNC with their spending views.
 

Deleted member 15440

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,191
What if I'm for same-sex marriage but I'm against recreational drug use? Am I a conservative or a liberal?

People are not computer that think in binary terms.

Also for goodness sakes, USA is not the center of the universe. Stop using American rheteoric to 'judge' the world.

This is no difference than 'if you are not with us, you are against us' type of proclamation that Bush spouted.
forcing your sense of personal morality on others regardless of actual harm is a conservative attitude
 

StuBurns

Self Requested Ban
Banned
Nov 12, 2017
7,273
Policy wise, I am most certainly a centralist by US political standards, however, the party platform is poisoned, and any vote for the right is putrified. Any centralist is in all practical application left, just by way of moral issues that logically will always take priority over lesser right leaning beliefs.
 

Deleted member 5167

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,114
Hos is this an example of a centrist policy? How is military spending a right wing policy when everyone on both sides of the aisle generally supports it?

I assume you're american and are unaware of how much more the US spends on its military than any other country on the planet.
Because it would be real fucking easy to drop that expenditure, still remain the country outspending everyone else on its military by a significant amount, and fund actual social spending without any associated tax increase, other than US political policy being hugely in favour of the military industrial complex.

It doesn't even make any real economic sense. What do military guys know about building housing? I wager nothing.
The term "engineer" is literally invented as a military term.
Military engineers know a shit ton about construction, because they are the ones building roads, bridges, fortifications, accommodation, hospitals and ports / airfields to accomodate a landed force.
Many countries use military engineers in peacetime to do infrastructure work like building dams and bridges or rerouting rivers, because they are literally trained precisely to do that.

But even if you want to exclude all that, just change it to something like earning a collegiate or university level education; you can give poor people an expensive eduction 'on the state' in return for military service and get that passed more easily than you can get bipartisan approval for state subsidised higher education.
 

EkStatiC

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,243
Greece
When society floorish, centrists are the apathetic who the prelevant sytem work for them.

When society struggles to mainten it self, centrists are the ones that will cling to anything that will let them keep their current status.

Centrists can be anything, as long as it is good for them.
 

John Doe

Avenger
Jan 24, 2018
3,443
I assume you're american and are unaware of how much more the US spends on its military than any other country on the planet.
Because it would be real fucking easy to drop that expenditure, still remain the country outspending everyone else on its military by a significant amount, and fund actual social spending without any associated tax increase, other than US political policy being hugely in favour of the military industrial complex.


The term "engineer" is literally invented as a military term.
Military engineers know a shit ton about construction, because they are the ones building roads, bridges, fortifications, accommodation, hospitals and ports / airfields to accomodate a landed force.
Many countries use military engineers in peacetime to do infrastructure work like building dams and bridges or rerouting rivers, because they are literally trained precisely to do that.

But even if you want to exclude all that, just change it to something like earning a collegiate or university level education; you can give poor people an expensive eduction 'on the state' in return for military service and get that passed more easily than you can get bipartisan approval for state subsidised higher education.

I know exactly how much money the US spends on the military. I'm just pointing out the reality that whenever it comes to increasing the military budget, almost on both sides of the aisle votes for it. Of course a few do complain about it.

Your last paragraph already happens, the military helps pay for college I think. I didn't know that about military engineers, I just assumed you meant the rank and file of the military would be conscripted to build houses. As an aside the budget doesn't need to increase for them to build housing right now, it would just require a shifting of how the military spends its money

https://www.studentdebtrelief.us/news/does-the-military-pay-for-college/
 

Deleted member 5167

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,114
Your last paragraph already happens, the military helps pay for college I think.

Yes, that's an example of bipartisan compromise. The right have no particular interest in giving poor people free education, and the left have no particular interest in buying more guns instead of giving people more opportunities in life.

That you could use military forces to perform domestic infrastructure work as part of their training or when not in active combat is not a thing that happens in the US, but is an example that could happen that 'both sides' would be happer signing off on, than blanket spending on projects either side are lobbying for in particular.
 

mikeys_legendary

The Fallen
Sep 26, 2018
3,016
I am a left-of-center centrist, for various reasons. Doesn't mean I can't put some of my views to the side and see that the Republicans are cancerous for the country, and the world.

I don't have a party who supports every last one of my views but then again - does anyone on the left? I generally vote Democrat but we're an amalgamation of different people with differing views all put together in one party. It's part of the reason our voters are so fickle.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,398
Hard to say, because you guys in the USA have a very specific view on politics that's not represented in the rest of the world. I'm mostly leftist, but not ALL THE WAY leftist because the political party in my country defending those values are fucking nuts and incoherent at times. Maybe the left in the US right now is more like our 'old regular left' than the new hardcore left, can't really compare.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,055
South Carolina
Being a "centrist," i.e. having one's beliefs not align perfectly with one side or the other, is a totally normal trait and exceedingly defines the majority of people in the world. Only a minority of people can say that they are the furthest left/right person on the political spectrum. It really depends on where the lines are drawn to divide the left/middle/right. So if somebody strongly supports LGBTQ rights, gender equality, etc. but also doesn't want any gun legislation or higher taxes or whatever, I would call that person a centrist. They have views that align with both ends of the political spectrum, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with a person that has those beliefs.

That being said, in the context of the political climate today there can be argument that now is NOT the time to be "standing up for what you believe in." Like a ton of people have said, maybe now is the time to stand up for the liberal views that you have rather than the conservative ones. Wait for psychopaths to be kicked out of the government first, then work on moving policies towards the middle (if that's what you believe in).

I'm all for shaming centrists for *voting* centrist during the last and next elections. I'm 100% AGAINST shaming centrists for their views. People can be different, and people can support certain stances (as long as they are not directly harming somebody else, such as being against abortion or LGBTQ rights) that you might not agree with. That doesn't make them cowardly or any "dumber" than somebody far on the left. Casting a vote that directly or indirectly aids authoritarian nutjobs certainly makes them dumber humanitarian-wise, IMO

A good idea in this era, as losing the center by purity tests. The GOP has abandoned the center, the left abandoning it too is game over but MORAL SUPERIORITY YALL.

They need to win them over like they're people. "Centrists" aint just Boogies equating Max Boots and Donnie Two Scoops, but it's really easy to convince oneself of that when the Boogie Centrists suck up the oxygen and hammer that self-designation home.
 
Aug 14, 2018
76
This is absurd. Talking about the US centrism literally makes no sense for two huge reasons.

1) The wide divide in issues. To be a centrist in the US means you have 0 strong opinions or convictions. You're telling me you don't have any opinions on LGBT rights, healthcare, the military etc.? You're either ignorant or just a blob husk of a human being with no actual opinions.

2) The way the US is set up is always going to favor 2 political parties so centrism does not work in federal elections. The voting system favors 2 parties, the way congress is set up favors 2 parties. You can't be a centrist when congress literally divides itself on political parties. Ask how many centrist politicians would be willing to vote for the opposing party to be the speaker of the house or set up congress to favor the opposing party in committees, committee chairs etc.

Absolutely baffling, centrism in the US makes less sense than being part of the far right because at least they have actual viewpoints and work towards goals. There's a difference between being a moderate and being a "centrist" who doesn't align themselves with a political party more than the other when it comes to stuff that actually matters. It's just faux-intellectual grandstanding and it drives me insane.

This post is exactly the type of attitude I referred to in my post. It's all or nothing, black or white. Agree with me or you're not a human being, but instead a blob husk.

Being a centrist doesn't mean that the person has no opinion, it just means that the person is pragmatic and doesn't let ideology cloud his or her judgements. I believe in climate change for example, but how should we go about dealing with someone who is sceptical? Should we just reduce the debate into a shouting match about whether or not climate change is real or not, which quickly turns into a stale mate, or do we start listening to what the other side has to say? I can appreciate and fully understand the frustration of having discussions with people who refuse to listen to reason, but will turning into the people who frustrate you accomplice anything?
 

Deleted member 6230

User-requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
6,118
Being a centrist in 2018 is the equivalent of saying "things are good for me and I don't feel like anything should change"
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
This post is exactly the type of attitude I referred to in my post. It's all or nothing, black or white. Agree with me or you're not a human being, but instead a blob husk.

Being a centrist doesn't mean that the person has no opinion, it just means that the person is pragmatic and doesn't let ideology cloud his or her judgements. I believe in climate change for example, but how should we go about dealing with someone who is sceptical? Should we just reduce the debate into a shouting match about whether or not climate change is real or not, which quickly turns into a stale mate, or do we start listening to what the other side has to say? I can appreciate and fully understand the frustration of having discussions with people who refuse to listen to reason, but will turning into the people who frustrate you accomplice anything?
You missed mt second point of the actua practical application of being a political centrist in the US and how centrism is different from moderates.

Being a centrist is not pragmatic in a 2 party system. It's the exact opposite.
 

andymcc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,638
Columbus, OH
I believe in climate change for example, but how should we go about dealing with someone who is sceptical? ?

The media should responsibly deplatform anti-climate science shit so people that can't be bothered to do their own research aren't fed bullshit. But as long as we foster a culture where everything is supposed to have a "center" or a "middle", we will keep on normalizing dangerous voices/rhetoric.
 

Deleted member 41271

User requested account closure
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Mar 21, 2018
2,258
it just means that the person is pragmatic and doesn't let ideology cloud his or her judgements

Far from it. The person you describes actually subscribes to a dehumanizing ideology that is fine subjecting large parts of the population to violence and terror for his personal gain.
The person you describe is one of the most ideology-based people there are - he's just claiming he isn't, but that very stance is neither balanced nor unideological.

? Should we just reduce the debate into a shouting match about whether or not climate change is real or not, which quickly turns into a stale mate

This point is complete lunacy.

Should we just reduce the debate into a shouting match about whether or note the earth is flat, which quickly turns into a stale mate?

Your ideology randomly makes you believe that specific opinions somehow are excempt from needing any evidence, and have equal value to those that have evidence. It's a deeply biased ideology. You do not "believe" in climate change just like you don't believe in a round earth.
 

Icemonk191

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,814
When it's so obvious that one side is pure fucking evil, saying that you're a centrist tells me that you're ok with what that side is doing but are too much of a coward to admit it publicly.

(Only talking about the USA here)
 

mute

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,764
In an ideal world:

Left <-----Center-----> Right

In current crazy land:

Left <---------------------------------------- "Center"---------------------------------------->Right

Instead of where it should be:

Left <-----Center------------------------------------------------------------------------------->Right
 

Slim

Banned
Sep 24, 2018
2,846
What if I'm socially liberal but fiscally conservative
Same, although I don't live in the US. I also vote liberal. However, I have trust issues after getting fucked by both sides. The last thing I want in Norway is the current right-wing government with their "we're not racists, we just say and do lots of stupid racist shit".
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,956
It is cowardly to view the center as an objective good. The center of good and evil, for example, is not an enviable place to identify with. This is of course a simplification of things, but there are all too many people who are willing to sit smack dab in the center regardless of what one side does (unless it hurts them, of course, in which case boo that side).
 

nextJin

Member
Mar 17, 2018
455
Georgia
rand paul is generally anti interventionist but i don't know if he actually wants to shrink the military budget

if there are other republicans in government like that i'm not aware of them

He wants to shrink everything so yeah he falls in that category but Massey in the house is another. I believe the Liberty Caucuse leans that way.
 

Nothing1016

Member
Oct 25, 2017
768
California
Depends on what type of centrist you are. I think you are misguided if you are economically conservative and socially liberal but at least you are not a hateful person. Selfish sure, but not trash.
 

Juraash

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,576
I don't necessarily see anything inherently wrong with being centrist, or at least I didn't used to. But in today's world, especially with the rise of white nationalism in the mainstream, take a fucking stand. There can be no middle ground when one side is basically like, "fuck all those brown people, all women, LGBTQ folks, and those damn Jews." If you aren't willing to take a stance against that without hesitation, my immediate impression is that you're trying to be centrist to hide the fact you really buy into a lot of the right's rhetoric. We live in too divisive a time for this "both sides" shit.
 

DrForester

Mod of the Year 2006
Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,080
You can be a centrist.

However, if your centrist views included a view along the lines of "both sides are just as bad" then you're a fucking moron with their head stuck up their ass.
 
Oct 26, 2017
12,125
a true centrist would see current gop as extremists, and dems as right of center most of time.


honestly, a modern centrists (between both parties) in there's current state is a coward
 

ishan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,192
left of center. I believe its smart, pragmatic and reasonable to be a centrist. I may have progressive ideas on many things a middle of the road ideas on some. I also accept ppl can have other ideas than me on the right and still be correct/ allowed their opinion/view.

The world isnt black or white.

also op's line of only if convenient etc is bs. A person can genuinely be center left in their beliefs. The American Gop is wacko on most things tho I agree but there are certain things I can see why they would feel a certain way eg guns taxes abortion etc. I dont agree with them but I can see their point of view. In america I would fall more into liberal than centerist tho
 

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Oct 25, 2017
6,118
left of center. I believe its smart, pragmatic and reasonable to be a centrist. I may have progressive ideas on many things a middle of the road ideas on some. I also accept ppl can have other ideas than me on the right and still be correct/ allowed their opinion/view.

The world isnt black or white.

also op's line of only if convenient etc is bs. A person can genuinely be center left in their beliefs. The American Gop is wacko on most things tho I agree but there are certain things I can see why they would feel a certain way eg guns taxes abortion etc. I dont agree with them but I can see their point of view. In america I would fall more into liberal than centerist tho

What's the center of being a nazi and being not a nazi?

I feel like """centrist""" perform what they think will be perceived as reasonable instead of actually taking reasonable stances on the issues.