Is it cowardly, smart, or something else to be a centrist?
- Thread starter Rivenblade
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Most centrists are just lazy. They tend to not be very into politics, and they don't do a whole lot of research onto who might support issues they want tackled.
That said, they aren't above sticking their nose into topics they have no knowledge on and then giving the "but we should all just meet in the middle!"
That said, they aren't above sticking their nose into topics they have no knowledge on and then giving the "but we should all just meet in the middle!"
yeah there's a large gap between centrism working in the US and in european countries with multiple effective parties
From my experience, centrists tend to be more informed than most. They may just be using that information to come to what others would consider the wrong conclusions.
If you're a centrist in terms of actual policy? That's perfectly fine.
If you're a centrist in terms of actual politics? Fuck you now and forever.
If you're a centrist in terms of actual politics? Fuck you now and forever.
Naive at best. I'll hasten to add I'm talking about centrism as it applies to America.
Most centrists I've met are people whose personal lives are minimally impacted by politics. They can believe both Clinton and Trump were comparably bad because, by the end of the day, they'd be able to survive the Trump era. And, yes, you can't really can't divorce centrism from racism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism, misogyny, etc. because privilege really is what allows folks (esp. wealthy white able-bodied allocishet men) to ignore politics, to regard it as some sort of game no more important than a sports season. Furthermore, centrism really has roots in trying to avoid confrontation; having to regard nearly half of voters as *wrong* makes people uncomfortable, so they'd rather say both sides have good points lest they feel they have invalidated anyone. And you can only worry about making people feel good if you first consider not hurting their feelings, irrespective of whether they deserved it, more important than others' safety.
Obviously parallels to "civility" and both-sideisms exists, as it's one giant package.
I went with naivete, because the hurdle that seems to break people is realizing politics *matters*, that it's not some distant thing but a ubiquitous force that shapes society all the time. And, hopefully, when they realize people they care about are being harmed, they take it imupin themselves to become better informed. And, yes, this often leads to the inevitable conclusion that most of the GOP offer bad faith arguments in a bid for power and the Dems, well, aren't that. And when you can't take the GOP seriously, centrism isn't tenable.
Anyway, that went a bit longer than expected so please excuse my tendency to ramble.
Most centrists I've met are people whose personal lives are minimally impacted by politics. They can believe both Clinton and Trump were comparably bad because, by the end of the day, they'd be able to survive the Trump era. And, yes, you can't really can't divorce centrism from racism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism, misogyny, etc. because privilege really is what allows folks (esp. wealthy white able-bodied allocishet men) to ignore politics, to regard it as some sort of game no more important than a sports season. Furthermore, centrism really has roots in trying to avoid confrontation; having to regard nearly half of voters as *wrong* makes people uncomfortable, so they'd rather say both sides have good points lest they feel they have invalidated anyone. And you can only worry about making people feel good if you first consider not hurting their feelings, irrespective of whether they deserved it, more important than others' safety.
Obviously parallels to "civility" and both-sideisms exists, as it's one giant package.
I went with naivete, because the hurdle that seems to break people is realizing politics *matters*, that it's not some distant thing but a ubiquitous force that shapes society all the time. And, hopefully, when they realize people they care about are being harmed, they take it imupin themselves to become better informed. And, yes, this often leads to the inevitable conclusion that most of the GOP offer bad faith arguments in a bid for power and the Dems, well, aren't that. And when you can't take the GOP seriously, centrism isn't tenable.
Anyway, that went a bit longer than expected so please excuse my tendency to ramble.
Absolutely the opposite of what I've seen in my experience... They know very little, tend to not start political conversations, and when forced to engage in one they will almost always take points from both sides they are listening on and propose the magic 'middle ground'.
Nah. In the United States the window is so far to the right that most of the "left" are just conservatives who are liberal on social issues.
I'd say a big part of the problem especially in America is that we don't have a left wing, Democrats are mostly just centrist, so when your "center" is just being right wing instead of far right it's not really moderating anything, it's just pushing things right at a slower pace
And that's the problem
Instead of gettin on the fence to gain perspective, you stay on the fence and never come down to chosse a side or make a stand
Centrists seem to hate context, hence many "both sides" crap gets spouted. A lot of people here are finding it harder to be centrist if they're from the US or UK as it becomes harder and harder to deny the context of the right's actions and how they actually harm people, especially in America (e.g seeing neo-nazis actually kill a woman, multiple racist incidents, kids in cages, threatening the rights of transgender people, and now mail bombs).
Also, fiscal conservatism is just a way of indirectly harming people and especially minority groups as opposed to doing it directly.
Also, fiscal conservatism is just a way of indirectly harming people and especially minority groups as opposed to doing it directly.
Centrism really depends on the country and it's best viewed as a case by case. In the U.S. Centrism is bullshit largely because the overton window is so far shifted to the right, that the definition of being a centrist now basically means being a 1980s style Republican.
Huge difference between the US and the rest of the western world. The scale of left-centrist-right in the US is busted big time. That's why the US is so screwed up right now. Whatever Americans think about their centrists is significantly different compared to the rest of the world because they don't have a middle ground.
Considering that the most stable and successful democracies in the western world have long been based on centrist governments, it seems to work just fine outside the US. But the massive divide in the US has burned all bridges to the middle ground. It is not looking good for the US, and I have no idea how they can fix it.
Considering that the most stable and successful democracies in the western world have long been based on centrist governments, it seems to work just fine outside the US. But the massive divide in the US has burned all bridges to the middle ground. It is not looking good for the US, and I have no idea how they can fix it.
Centrists are not Moderates
Blue Dog Democrats are Moderates, Red Tories are Moderates, but a Centrist an affirmed centrist is not a moderate.
from a Canadian perspective, I'm a hardliner Centrist and Liberal Party voter.
I don't believe in comprimises with the fuckin' Conservative Party or the Bloc Quebecois. Fuck'em all.
Canada is tried and true a Centrist country
I don't believe in comprimises with the fuckin' Conservative Party or the Bloc Quebecois. Fuck'em all.
Canada is tried and true a Centrist country
Bingo. The best thing the democratic party has going for it is being able to set what the limit is considered "left" in the US by being the only "opposition" to the republicans.
Anything that pushes left against that gets hit with "purity test" complaints.
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Personal anecdotes and all but.. in my experience, people who claim to be centrists, and even liberal end up being right wingers who are too afraid to share what they really think about people. This is especially true with my experiences via dating
I don't see what compromising on values that help people actually accomplishes. Especially when the right doesn't play that way at all.
I don't see what compromising on values that help people actually accomplishes. Especially when the right doesn't play that way at all.
The best joke I've heard about the typical "socially liberal, fiscally conservative" centrist is "I like black people, but I also like the fiscal policies that oppress them." Political beliefs and ideologies are interconnected and most people don't just pick and choose their beliefs in a vacuum. Supporting civil rights for black people is correlated to supporting civil rights for gay people which is correlated to fixing the prison/justice system which is correlated to the ending the war on drugs which is correlated to supporting more affordable health insurance, etc. So if you only support some of those things but not others, it suggests a gap in your logic that makes you susceptible to eventually dropping your support for all of those things (because your beliefs are only as strong as their weakest link).
A lot of people here seem to think being a centrist means you listen to Trump's insane desire to define gender as male/female only and give it equal weighting to the view that trans folks deserve the same rights as non-trans.
I'd consider myself a centrist on a few issues, mainly international stuff where everything is so complicated and every option seems bad.
I'd consider myself a centrist on a few issues, mainly international stuff where everything is so complicated and every option seems bad.
The last person I met who claimed this ended up saying she's not like her "sign totting liberal sister who protests" (referring to the women's march).
90% the time it's softening the blow of "I'm a fucking asshole".
Absolutely.
Extreme political parties in Canada get laughed at and crash and burn.
The differences between Canada and the US are astronomical.
True
The Democrats are a Center-Right party .
The Left doesn't exist there
Joe Manchin the blue dog is a Right Winger
I recall it being insinuated that I was a centrist in my thread about trying to weed out more extreme Republican candidates by switching your party affiliation to Republican. I found this odd, considering the fact that I don't support Republicans, yet I realize that they're one of two parties that could be in power at any given time. It seems irresponsible to me to allow a "bad" party to continue being bad, especially when it's unlikely that the pipe dream of another party "replacing" the Republican party will ever happen.
That said, I probably do come off as centrist, but that's more so because I have less interest in passing laws to prevent X or protect Y and more interest in people taking real action to fix those issues. For example, you can't just look the other way on illegal immigration with one administration and suddenly be surprised when your inaction has allowed the next administration to wreak havoc on the lives of illegal immigrants. People seem to be content with the simple implementation of laws with the logic that they'll be in place forever, and they're not actually permanently solving any problems. Gun violence? Sure, go ahead and push for gun control, but you should also be doing everything possible on a local level to prevent shootings from happening or to at least minimize their impact. I think it's more important to throw money at some of these issues to make permanent changes that'll eventually get us where we want to be, rather than continually pleading to bunch of politicians who simply don't care.
That said, I probably do come off as centrist, but that's more so because I have less interest in passing laws to prevent X or protect Y and more interest in people taking real action to fix those issues. For example, you can't just look the other way on illegal immigration with one administration and suddenly be surprised when your inaction has allowed the next administration to wreak havoc on the lives of illegal immigrants. People seem to be content with the simple implementation of laws with the logic that they'll be in place forever, and they're not actually permanently solving any problems. Gun violence? Sure, go ahead and push for gun control, but you should also be doing everything possible on a local level to prevent shootings from happening or to at least minimize their impact. I think it's more important to throw money at some of these issues to make permanent changes that'll eventually get us where we want to be, rather than continually pleading to bunch of politicians who simply don't care.
What criteria do you use to determine whether or not someone is a leftist?
I don't have any time for anyone who would proclaim themselves a centrist in our current political landscape.
I think stating that your political ideology is "centrism" is really fucking dumb anywhere in the world
There's no such thing as centrism in world politics because every government's left/right are shifted far. In the US, centrist views are considered fucked up by most developed countries, i.e. diet fascist.
I get it, many of you Americans in a two party system between a Far-Right party (Republicans) and a Centre-Right party (Democrats) are kicking each other in the head on your definitions of Left / Centre / Right
But outside of the US, in other countries, there is political diversity where true centrist parties exist and have hardcore centrist ideologies.
a moderate is a waffler inside his own party affiliation like a Red Tory or a Blue Dog Democrat.
a centrist however is someone who has firm centrist beliefs, like Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and President Emmanuel Macron.
Trudeau and Macron are not "dumb"
But outside of the US, in other countries, there is political diversity where true centrist parties exist and have hardcore centrist ideologies.
a moderate is a waffler inside his own party affiliation like a Red Tory or a Blue Dog Democrat.
a centrist however is someone who has firm centrist beliefs, like Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and President Emmanuel Macron.
Trudeau and Macron are not "dumb"
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I don't think you're dumb.
I just think if you state your political idealogy as centrism then that's dumb
Being a centrist is starting to mean less as the right pushes further right. I don't buy this "Let's hear them out" any more. You're listening to people justify racism, withdrawal of human rights, destruction of the free press and worse.
Those folks are no different than our third-way/neoliberal democrats here.
In US if you don't vote D you are stupid, idiotic and least uncaring for you fellow humans at worst NEO nazi. So if you are a centrist
And don't vote D you are above.
In many other places in the world, centrist view is good, and usually the best way of progressing.
And don't vote D you are above.
In many other places in the world, centrist view is good, and usually the best way of progressing.
Heck if I know anymore. I thought leftism was (in broad terms) about improving social services + making all people recognized as equals, but some etc users make it sound like there's a whole lot more to it.