Is there a modern comic uglier than Squirrel Girl?

Messofanego · Jan 22, 2018

MHWilliams said:
To answer your question directly,

Frank Miller

Ian Bertram

Flaviano Armentaro can have some rough compositions at times.

Rob Liefeld remains a strong go-to.

Squirrel Girl is meant to evoke a small press or indie comic style. Like so:

Wired Up Wrong

Rock Candy Mountain

Anything Raina Telgemeier (currently one of the biggest graphical novelists)

The Best We Could Do by Thi Bui

Again, this is largely a specific choice, which is why they hired Ryan North as writer. North previously did Dinosaur Comics and Whispered Apologies. Examples of both:

Occasionally, the Big Two like doing things like this. Why? Because while these things tend to not sell in the direct market, they sometime do better in traditional book markets. See the difference between Dec 2017 in the direct market and December 2017 on Bookscan.

#1 in direct market:

#1 in Bookscan

The reason Marvel keeps Moon Girl and Squirrel Girl around is they reach different audiences.

Now as to the overall thrust, you seem to prefer Japanese works and artists, hence the references to Guruhiru and Sana Takeda. Which is fine, you have an aesthetic preference. Henderson's art isn't my cup of tea either. At the same time, I like you do the art of Henderson a horrible disservice. It's a similar issue I tend to find when I offer One Piece or Attack on Titan as an recommendation for folks.

Or even moreso, Mob Psycho 100, the original One Punch Man, or Pop Team Epic:

"But Mike, those are weird comedy and gag manga!"

Yeah, that's the point. Squirrel Girl is aiming for a style and tone. Henderson is largely suited for that style and tone, which is why the book works for those whom it works for. Which makes the thread pretty much a big "I don't like a thing and would like another thing," which is fine but not really novel in thesis or scope. My answer is "So?" and "Comics do different things."

Great post.

Yossarian · Jan 22, 2018

Red Arremer said:
And I'll also add Maus, which won a Pulitzer price:

But oh no, furries are all shit and everything that has anything remotely furry in it is tainted.

Hang on... are you saying Art Speigelman is a furry?!

Red Arremer · Jan 22, 2018

Yossarian said:
Hang on... Art Speigelman is a furry?!

I don't know, and it doesn't matter. His graphic novel is clearly anthropomorphic though. I've seen people here (and in other places) shit on anything that has anthropomorphic characters in it for years now even if its creators aren't furries. It's obnoxious as hell.

Mockerre · Jan 22, 2018

OP, you should check out the new Star Wars comic.

Vulcano's Assistant · Jan 22, 2018

Red Arremer said:
I'll throw Lackadaisy into the ring as well:

Well if it is a ring then it'll be getting KO in a blow if Blacksad is what's on the other corner.

Red Arremer · Jan 22, 2018

Vulcano's Assistant said:
Well if it is a ring then it'll be getting KO in a blow if Blacksad is what's on the other corner.

Are people really just trying to purposely misinterpret what I'm trying to say?
No, I'm not trying to compare Lackadaisy with Blacksad, I'm saying that there's good furry/anthropomorphic comics out there.

Yossarian · Jan 22, 2018

Red Arremer said:
I don't know, and it doesn't matter. His graphic novel is clearly anthropomorphic though. I've seen people here (and in other places) shit on anything that has anthropomorphic characters in it for years now even if its creators aren't furries. It's obnoxious as hell.

Kinda does when your original post is about defending furry art (I don't think he is, btw).

Red Arremer · Jan 22, 2018

Yossarian said:
Kinda does when your original post is about defending furry art (I don't think he is, btw).

My original post is about saying that art/comics with mainly anthropomorphic characters (which usually are referred to as furries) can be good. Some posts on the first page are claiming that furry art in general is shit, and because people love to constantly shit on furries, everything that has an anthropomorphic character in them is considered to be crap by a lot of the internet. It doesn't matter if the creators are furries or not.

Vulcano's Assistant · Jan 22, 2018

Red Arremer said:
Are people really just trying to purposely misinterpret what I'm trying to say?
No, I'm not trying to compare Lackadaisy with Blacksad, I'm saying that there's good furry/anthropomorphic comics out there.

Well I haven't read Lackadaisy, I was only talking about the quality of the art. I'm don't doubt it has good content.

Yossarian · Jan 22, 2018

Red Arremer said:
My original post is about saying that art/comics with mainly anthropomorphic characters (which usually are referred to as furries) can be good. Some posts on the first page are claiming that furry art in general is shit, and because people love to constantly shit on furries, everything that has an anthropomorphic character in them is considered to be crap by a lot of the internet. It doesn't matter if the creators are furries or not.

Again, it does if you claim them as 'furry art' as you did at the end of your post.

Red Arremer · Jan 22, 2018

Yossarian said:
Again, it does if you claim them as 'furry art' as you did at the end of your post.

And again: It doesn't matter if the creators are furries or not, people will still shit on anything with anthropomorphic characters in them. You ever seen people talk about games like Dust: An Elysian Tail, Tooth and Tail or Armello? Hooo boy.

petran79 · Jan 22, 2018

Red Arremer said:
I don't know, and it doesn't matter. His graphic novel is clearly anthropomorphic though. I've seen people here (and in other places) shit on anything that has anthropomorphic characters in it for years now even if its creators aren't furries. It's obnoxious as hell.

Prior to Maus he was popular in the underground comic scene. He even icludes an awarded strip comic inside Maus.
It is like claiming that Robert Crumb who made Fritz the Cat is also a furry

Red Arremer · Jan 22, 2018

petran79 said:
Prior to Maus was popular in the underground comic scene. He even icludes an awarded strip comic inside Maus.
It is like claiming that Robert Crumb who made Fritz the Cat is also a furry

Again: I'm not claiming Spiegelmann is a furry, I'm saying that - regardless of whether the creator is a furry or not - people will shit on stuff with anthropomorphic characters in it, and cause it's OK to constantly bash furries, people go to lengths to defend it, too.

It really isn't that hard to understand, is it?

petran79 · Jan 22, 2018

I agree, hence I posted the panel.

Einchy · Jan 22, 2018

Red Arremer said:
And I'll also add Maus, which won a Pulitzer price:

But oh no, furries are all shit and everything that has anything remotely furry in it is tainted.

Did you just compare Maus with furries.

Yossarian · Jan 22, 2018

Red Arremer said:
Again: I'm not claiming Spiegelmann is a furry, I'm saying that - regardless of whether the creator is a furry or not - people will shit on stuff with anthropomorphic characters in it, and cause it's OK to constantly bash furries, people go to lengths to defend it, too.

It really isn't that hard to understand, is it?

But you did put him in the furry camp. If your post had actually been about anthropomorphic characters rather than the furry fury it actually was, this wouldn't be a thing.

half a moon · Jan 22, 2018

anthropomorphism came before furry art. Furry art is a subgroup of anthropomorphism. Furry art is trash. Anthropomorphism is not

Edit: furry art not furry people

Red Arremer · Jan 22, 2018

Yossarian said:
But you did put him in the furry camp. If your post had actually been about anthropomorphic characters rather than the furry fury it actually was, this wouldn't be a thing.

I used the word "furry" interchangably with "anthropomorphic characters" in my initial post. Also, if you read again, I specifically said "everything that has anything remotely furry in it" - which specifically is what Maus would fall into: Stuff that isn't created by a furry, but uses anthropomorphic characters, hence "anything remotely furry in it".

And why does it matter if the creator of something is a furry or not? Would it make Maus worse if Spiegelmann actually was a furry?

half a moon said:
anthropomorphism came before furries. Furries are a subgroup of anthropomorphism. Furries are trash. Anthropomorphism is not

Thanks, I like being called trash.

Yossarian · Jan 22, 2018

Red Arremer said:
I used the word "furry" interchangably with "anthropomorphic characters" in my initial post.

Right, but they're not interchangeable. One is an artistic device, the other is a sub-culture/lifestyle choice.

Red Arremer said:
Also, if you read again, I specifically said "everything that has anything remotely furry in it" - which specifically is what Maus would fall into: Stuff that isn't created by a furry, but uses anthropomorphic characters, hence "anything remotely furry in it".

Something that has anthropomorphic characters in it is not necessarily related to the furry sub-culture, so even that is an inaccurate claim. While furries may claim it as so, the original work may not have anything to do with the sub-culture, as is the case here.

...unless you think George Orwell had a bit of furry in him?

Red Arremer said:
And why does it matter if the creator of something is a furry or not?

You're using a non-furry example to prove your point that not all furry art is bad.

Famassu · Jan 22, 2018

Sgt. Demblant said:
I genuinely don't understand the problem some people have with that art style. It fits the comic perfectly. I've only read a couple of issues of Squirrel Girl and didn't love them but I thought the art was on point. And to answer your question, the Super Sons issue with the fill-in artist recently was a thousand times uglier.

What's to get? Some people prefer their porn model poses and 10/10, would bang aesthetics and anything that deviates from that is fugly, especially if anyone is drawn as not traditionally beautiful or cute. I can't say these characters look super appealing, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Variety is key.

half a moon · Jan 22, 2018

Red Arremer said:
I used the word "furry" interchangably with "anthropomorphic characters" in my initial post. Also, if you read again, I specifically said "everything that has anything remotely furry in it" - which specifically is what Maus would fall into: Stuff that isn't created by a furry, but uses anthropomorphic characters, hence "anything remotely furry in it".

And why does it matter if the creator of something is a furry or not? Would it make Maus worse if Spiegelmann actually was a furry?

Thanks, I like being called trash.

I mean furry art not furry people

Hellers · Jan 22, 2018

I really liked a Supergirl run a few years ago. Part way through they had a fill in artist who drew her as a more realistic looking woman and even had her wear shorts under the skirt. It was ace and sadly only lasted a handful of issues. I wish I could remember who it was.

Red Arremer · Jan 22, 2018

Yossarian said:
Right, but they're not interchangeable. One is an artistic device, the other is a sub-culture/lifestyle choice.

If you really want me to, I'll go back to the initial post and edit it to only say anthropomorphic characters instead of furries. Would that be satisfactory?

Something that has anthropomorphic characters in it is not necessarily related to the furry sub-culture, so even that is an inaccurate claim.

...unless you think George Orwell had a bit of furry in him?

You're using a non-furry example to prove your point that not all furry art is bad.

It is not necessarily related to the furry subculture, but it is associated with the furry subculture by people online.
For example, let me quote you a Steam user's review of Tooth and Tail:
"Getting your♥♥♥♥♥kicked by furries online simulator 2017

10/10 would yiff again"

Tooth and Tail's developers, to my knowledge, are absolutely not furries, and they decided to go with the anthropomorphic style because it fit the best with the premise and story they wanted to present.
Despite that, Tooth and Tail is associated with furries, because of the art style they picked.

Maus is clearly an anthropomorphic comic, i.e. it has anthropomorphic characters or "furries" in them. I am not claiming Maus to be a work OF a furry, I'm saying that other people are generalizing. That is my issue with what the people said in the first post. Anthropomorphic artwork isn't inherently bad just because it has anthropomorphic characters in it. And artwork created by furries isn't inherently bad either, especially not because of the creator being a furry.

The first response to the OP is "just google furry" (and the implication being that furry/anthropomorphic art always is shit). That is my issue with this whole conversation, that is the point I'm trying to get across.

half a moon said:
I mean furry art not furry people

I could give you the names of a plethora of furry artists that produce insanely high quality art that would blow your mind. And no, I don't mean porn.

half a moon · Jan 22, 2018

Post it

Yossarian · Jan 22, 2018

Red Arremer said:
If you really want me to, I'll go back to the initial post and edit it to only say anthropomorphic characters instead of furries. Would that be satisfactory?

On one hand, yes; it would qualify Maus' inclusion. On the other, no; because it wouldn't be reflective of what you're actually debating: the off-hand dismissal of furry culture. Maus is not an example of furry culture.

Red Arremer said:
It is not necessarily related to the furry subculture, but it is associated with the furry subculture by people online.

I can honestly say I've never heard anyone claim Maus is an example of furry subculture till today. If I had, I would take them for buffoons (present company excluded, of course).

Red Arremer said:
Tooth and Tail's developers, to my knowledge, are absolutely not furries, and they decided to go with the anthropomorphic style because it fit the best with the premise and story they wanted to present.

Despite that, Tooth and Tail is associated with furries, because of the art style they picked.

That's irrelevant. This is about Maus.

Red Arremer said:
I am not claiming Maus to be a work OF a furry, I'm saying that other people are generalizing. That is my issue with what the people said in the first post. Anthropomorphic artwork isn't inherently bad just because it has anthropomorphic characters in it.

No one claimed that. They suggested furry art wasn't very good. You then used a non-furry example to try to prove them wrong, when you apparently have plenty of other examples with which to do so.

Red Arremer said:
I could give you the names of a plethora of furry artists that produce insanely high quality art that would blow your mind. And no, I don't mean porn.

No doubt, but you still felt the need to appropriate Maus for this discussion.

Anyway, I think we've probably derailed this thread long enough.

WhateverItTakes · Jan 22, 2018

Honestly? I've always seen it as just trying to not be yet another comic book filled with conventionally attractive people plastering every page. The characters each have a unique look, beyond just their costumes. It's nice to have that diversity, even if it initially is kinda off-putting compared to the usual fare.

Modest_Modsoul · Jan 22, 2018

Never read of Squirrel Girl ever.

But some of the pages posted here & compared it to Guhiru art...

I would say it has charms, but I like Guhiru better.

*SHRUG*

Red Arremer · Jan 22, 2018

half a moon said:
Post it

If you're really interested, I can PM some stuff to you, but I don't want to derail this thread any further.

Yossarian said:
On one hand, yes; it would qualify Maus' inclusion. On the other, no; because it wouldn't be reflective of what you're actually debating: the off-hand dismissal of furry culture. Maus is not an example of furry culture.

I can honestly say I've never heard anyone claim Maus is an example of furry subculture till today. If I had, I would take them for buffoons (present company excluded, of course).

I normally am very careful to specifically say anthropomorphic rather than furry, but thanks to people (mostly people who aren't furries, mind you) constantly mixing the two up, I've started to give up. At this point, it seems that in the internet, "furry" is not only a member of the furry subculture, but also an anthropomorphic character, and the words are used as synonyms.
That is how I interpreted that post (and posts following it), that's how I've been interpreting the usage of the word "furry" by people not part of the subculture in general for several years now, because it's gotten to the point where it is mentally exhausting to try and correct them, and stressful to get into arguments about it.

That's irrelevant. This is about Maus.

No one claimed that. They suggested furry art wasn't very good. You then used a non-furry example to try to prove them wrong, when you apparently have plenty of other examples with which to do so.

No doubt, but you still felt the need to appropriate Maus for this discussion.

Anyway, I think we've probably derailed this thread long enough.

It's not only about Maus, it's about anthropomorphic content in general. Maus was an example of anthropomorphic art that wasn't created by furries. So is Tooth and Tail. This was part of my point as well - that people mix anthropomorphic content with furries.
Yes, the main point was that the general bashing of furries is obnoxious (as is people defending said bashing), but there also is the fact that art that involves anthropomorphic characters which isn't created by furries also gets the same kind of flak solely by association.

Perhaps I should have been clearer in my initial post about why I included Maus, but some of the reactions here kind of prove my point: Bashing on furries seems to be completely ok. It just happened that Maus apparently is considered somewhat of a "sacred cow" in that regard, and the mere suggestion that it could have something to do with furries has to result in being offended, if not outraged, because ew furries are gross trash.
I am going to edit an additional statement about this into that post now, though.

I agree with your last sentence, however.

FSP · Jan 22, 2018

As others have said, it is a writer/artist combo that is deliberately there to make an indie-feeling gag comic. It does this with gusto.

In addition having read some of this comic in particular the artist has a very good eye for comedy, which is damn hard to do properly. So the only conclusion I can come to is that the art is good, but it is not to your taste.

Mister X · Jan 22, 2018

Comics have been sh*t for the last 10 years.

And yes that art is terrible.

nemoral · Jan 22, 2018

Contramann said:
Not a book but my favorite comic right now is Unsounded which, for me at least, is certainly not uglier and dumber than Squirrel Girl.

I don't see a single squirrel, footnote, or animal pun based character.

Seriously, though, that looks great.

Donos · Jan 22, 2018

Funky Papa said:
In all fairness, Blacksad is a masterclass on its own. Its usage of perspective alone is breath taking.

It may be the most technically accomplished comic I've ever seen. Every single panel is worth of being released as a high-end print and framed.

Oh wow, that's really neat.

theDidact · Jan 22, 2018

The trajectory of this thread is pretty damn weird.

Zelas · Jan 22, 2018

Good lord, that is ugly!

FelRes · Jan 22, 2018

I find the art really ugly. Not the good kind of ugly either. The coloring is boring, the faces/expressions are an eyesore, there's nothing really visually stimulating. I enjoy when art is different from the usual house style, but this just isn't good.

half a moon · Jan 22, 2018

Red Arremer said:
If you're really interested, I can PM some stuff to you, but I don't want to derail this thread any further.

I normally am very careful to specifically say anthropomorphic rather than furry, but thanks to people (mostly people who aren't furries, mind you) constantly mixing the two up, I've started to give up. At this point, it seems that in the internet, "furry" is not only a member of the furry subculture, but also an anthropomorphic character, and the words are used as synonyms.
That is how I interpreted that post (and posts following it), that's how I've been interpreting the usage of the word "furry" by people not part of the subculture in general for several years now, because it's gotten to the point where it is mentally exhausting to try and correct them, and stressful to get into arguments about it.

It's not only about Maus, it's about anthropomorphic content in general. Maus was an example of anthropomorphic art that wasn't created by furries. So is Tooth and Tail. This was part of my point as well - that people mix anthropomorphic content with furries.
Yes, the main point was that the general bashing of furries is obnoxious (as is people defending said bashing), but there also is the fact that art that involves anthropomorphic characters which isn't created by furries also gets the same kind of flak solely by association.

Perhaps I should have been clearer in my initial post about why I included Maus, but some of the reactions here kind of prove my point: Bashing on furries seems to be completely ok. It just happened that Maus apparently is considered somewhat of a "sacred cow" in that regard, and the mere suggestion that it could have something to do with furries has to result in being offended, if not outraged, because ew furries are gross trash.
I am going to edit an additional statement about this into that post now, though.

I agree with your last sentence, however.

Yeah pm me

Yossarian · Jan 22, 2018

Mister X said:
Comics have been sh*t for the last 10 years.

mugwhump · Jan 22, 2018

The faces are... unfortunate. The rest of the art is passable, in my opinion.

Quacktion · Jan 22, 2018

Its pretty ugly for sure, those faces are hard to look at.

Deleted member 11093 · Jan 22, 2018

Dalek said:

Jesus Christ

mclem · Jan 22, 2018

23qwerty said:
going to need some clarification as to what the fuck this means

In early issues she talks about her theme song, in which she rhymes 'squirrel' with 'girl', as if it was "squirl". There is an E there

I'm aware this is really probably an American pronunciation thing, of course. But that poor E suffers so!

Zocano · Jan 22, 2018

Woof. Those faces.

It's like the spongebob ape meme pasted on every face.

23qwerty · Jan 22, 2018

mclem said:
In early issues she talks about her theme song, in which she rhymes 'squirrel' with 'girl', as if it was "squirl". There is an E there

I'm aware this is really probably an American pronunciation thing, of course. But that poor E suffers so!

squirrel absolutely rhymes with girl

Deleted member 29939 · Jan 22, 2018

Funky Papa said:
In all fairness, Blacksad is a masterclass on its own. Its usage of perspective alone is breath taking.

It may be the most technically accomplished comic I've ever seen. Every single panel is worth of being released as a high-end print and framed.

Oh wow

Platy · Jan 22, 2018

Tathanen said:
... why do I not know that Ryan North is writing a Marvel comic?

Because people usually focus on non comic booky art instead of awesome writing =(

mclem said:
In early issues she talks about her theme song, in which she rhymes 'squirrel' with 'girl', as if it was "squirl". There is an E there

I'm aware this is really probably an American pronunciation thing, of course. But that poor E suffers so!

SeventhEvil · Jan 22, 2018

Well, that sure is some fugly ass comic.

Kinthey · Jan 22, 2018

It really is quite unappealing to look at, but the book isn't really for me anyway, so not much reason to get mad. If she were to be the artist on something I actually care about I'd probably have stronger feelings.

Vibranium said:
Monstress is amazing and more people on Resetera need to check it out. Majorie Liu is one of the top talents in the game and should get to write Black Widow again. Or any hero really.

Marvel should lock her down with an exclusivity contract but my guess is she's never wanted it. Loved her Han Solo run.

I'd like her back writing X-23.

Platy · Jan 22, 2018

Also, sing with me !

SliceSabre · Jan 22, 2018

I really don't like the way the artist draws faces.

Buttzerker · Jan 22, 2018

Isn't Squirrel Girl canonically supposed to be kind of ugly though? What's the deal with people wanting her to look cute

Is there a modern comic uglier than Squirrel Girl?

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