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Oct 25, 2017
3,784
Hey OP, you're not gonna get a better answer than this:

Because this is a deconstruction of that trope. It's not just that Taro Yoko likes girls, it's that culture glorifies beauty. Our history is full of expression of beauty in female form, and androids throughout the game were made for that in particular.

So his answer to the question here is that he likes girls, but it is borne out in-game as "humanity likes girls," and that is undeniable. The Venus of any particular time is a window into what beauty was to those cultures. It is fitting, then, that the sexualized beauty that is 2B and A2 and YorHa in general, and all of the other androids, bear that same standard of beauty as we have today, as cultural norms stopped changing after the White Chlorination stuff.

Androids were designed to serve, and serve humans they do. But the androids do not know beauty, they cannot understand, explicitly, the abstraction that it is. So they continually pump them out. They are the same. Over and over and over and over again. Beauty for humans' sake, for they do not understand it. Beauty for our sake, as we do. The androids' designs are what they are because they are pleasant to look like. And I have absolutely zero doubt that it was on purpose, but plenty 'only' because "Taro Yoko likes girls."

2B was made FOR the controversy, as an addendum to it, a representation of objectification. And her presentation throughout the game is exactly that. Objectified. They were given form to please humans. They fight and kill and die to satisfy the urges that were programmed into them, to serve humans. But there are no humans. Bereft of that context, they continually make androids that look like the quintessential abstract that is beauty as it was, before humanity went effectively extinct. They do not know better.

Yoko Taro doesn't pose an answer to this, here. He only poses questions. And critique involves establishing in words what he does in abstract.

And the reason I know that is the question posed to 9S. "You want to **** 2B, don't you?"

But it's made clear to the player (well before then, but maybe not immediately), what "****" doesn't mean. To the outsider, and to the player immediately seeing it, they would think "****" means "fuck," but the androids lack that capacity, they do not know what that is. They might understand, at an academic level, how babies are made, but lack the cultural context to turn "sexual intercourse" into "fuck," or even turns "Sexual intercourse" from something we do for its explicit purpose (make babies) to something that we do for recreation. But that furthers Taro's goal. YOU think "fuck," because you, like all humans, sexualize things as a matter of course. Maybe it's not women, maybe it's not men, maybe it's just an abstract. But culture as it is has sex fully ingrained within. The robots do the same thing near the beginning of the game. Baby cradles, rocked gently. They don't know why. Banging their would-be-groins against other robots. Copulation without context. Or perhaps, with context, but bereft of culture.

9S sees "kill." Because killing feels to them as fucking feels to us.

The reason people don't get up in arms about 2B is that it is not the same as women being sexualized and objectified in media. It is the very abstract of that objectification and sexualization. It makes those who don't care see exactly what they always see.

It makes those who might ask themselves questions about what sexualization means.

It makes a person post a forum post asking why this is okay, but everything else isn't.

And that's why nobody gets up in arms about it.

tl;dr, He knew people would be pissed off about it, he knew people wouldn't for ~reasons~, and he knew people would talk about it, and that conversation about our culture of objectification was actually the goal.
 

DVCY201

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,166
This is a pretty interesting post.

I mean, I'm not sure if that much thought went into it (beyond "the design is aesthetically appealing" which I agree with), but it's interesting.
Why not? Yoko Taro got his following for his narrative capabilities. That's literally how Drakengard came about, when he saw Musou games glorifying killing soldiers. He came up with the context that only reprehensible characters could justify it. His other games follow similar thoughts and well-planned narratives.
 

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
22,876
Could you, in spoiler tags obviously, elaborate in the reason? I must have completely missed it

No, the burden of proof is on you. If your afraid of spoiling people, just use spoiler or hide tags instead of dodging the question.

70+ hours in Automata with 75% side quests done and I must have completely missed this "reasoning". Could you explain in a spoiler tag?

Is there any way you can provide one succinct, concise, and clearly defined reason why 2B dresses that way in the context of the game?


This is going to be a little bit long, but here's my explanation. I'm open to criticism, especially constructive.

The design has several roots into the themes and the story at large, but the gist of it is that Androids are dressing like humans would want to. It has a very submissive, sexual object imagery that is shown and is a perfectly valid way that the human race would depict living machines in any timeline (see: Ghost in the Shell Innocence, Pleasure Model Replicants in Blade Runner). The thing is, it remains a dress code that is stripped of meaning because of the lack of their progenitors (the humans) in their lives and them (then androids) acting as an autonomous entity devoid of any master. Without the lack of any meaningful supervision, Androids such as 2B and 9S are actively questioning the gender that they were given in terms of what they are wearing but also on how they should act and what their roles should be, both in combat and socially. They try to figure out if their outfits really denotes who they are and should be, and if the sexual attraction that they have between each other might or might not come from the social construct that humanity has built for them. But if you have never seen a human do it, what do you know about it ?

They are trying to emulate humans, but when the only legacy of humans is a destroyed world with relics of ancient time, they don't know how to emulate them, they don't know what it consists. Addressing their feelings and sexuality is a big part of the game, and 2B/9S are the witnesses that builds their character throughout the game:
  • Such as the way of seeing the way machines like Simone has feelings for Jean-Paul Sartre and continuously tries to beautify herself,
  • The way Adam and Eve acts along each other
  • How machines are trying to copulate even though they can't, or trying to make and take care of a baby.
At the same time we see androids working in an organization working towards the genocide of the Machine Race that is stripping them of any kind of humanity, down to what they wear. In key operations, she clearly wears a battle outfit in the last push to wipe out the machines, it neuters her individuality even more.

i1488784170629828jzzjb.jpeg


2B and 9S are very clearly in a fascist space that actively tries to suppress sexuality in any way, but their interactions with machine is a direct representation of how humanity works, of how it plays out, of how social constructs are really created, and how they can remove themselves from it. Let's go back to the clothes, that are very important to the game itself :

  • A2, who has long left YorHa lets herself be stripped down of her clothes as time goes on, as she knows the truth about humanity and her world crumbled because of it.
  • Adam and Eve are quite literally the opposite, they have such a thirst of knowing humans that their birth, naked and even genderless, works tirelessly to adhere to humanity's way of labeling themselves. They dress up, they create a brotherly bond. They want to experience feelings, they want to experience death.
I'd even add that 2B's dress takes into account that the internet as a whole will try to label it as sexualized and identified only through horny fanarts. Her dress is owned up by the fandom, but playing the game totally reveals that the fandom plays her into a social construct that 2B ultimately doesn't adhere. 2B is all about understanding what humanity has done in their existence, and through the emulation that machines has undertaken throughout their journey, take it into application to know what they have to take unto themselves, and know what they shouldn't. I don't think it's a stretch that the whole marketing of Yoko Taro also plays out in the game. It shifts expectations, and the gaze that we possess from our internet culture, in the same way that ending E shifts expectations of how we address the way we play a video game. It's figuring what is important, and what is worth leaving behind for ending E (Are Your memories more important ? Or your save ? Someone else's memories ?) in the same way for humanity (Your memories ? Their memories ?).

I think it's misguided to think only in terms of how salacious it is when it has a purpose. The story of a female character is not less or more relevant by the amount of fabric, it's about what the game does with it, and what we do with it as a player. Artistic merit, interpretation, our gaze, many things that allows us to understand something outside of the marketing. Something can be fanservice, and has a very important purpose, they are not mutually exclusive. Automata plays into that, very clearly.
 

Lotus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
106,049
I really didn't like the combat in the demo. It's possible to think like this.

Not bad, but nothing "Platinum is so goooood!!!!!".

Probably referring to how it seems to be that poster's shtick at this point, which is whatever, if not for the fact that it doesn't actually have anything to do with the topic being discussed.
 

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
Absolutely not true. An artist can create what he or she wants, but they are therefore opening themselves up to the same level of criticism and scrutiny as everyone else.

Criticism is not censorship.

Only if those people are insulting said artist and saying that the design should not exist. Examining designs and finding aspects problematic is one thing, but saying they should not exist is another.
 

eyeball_kid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,250
I think the philosophical point was more: is sexualization problematic per se, or is it problematic because it enforces a norm of sexualization? If the norm is strong independent women, then I think it's a defensible position to not consider single instances of sexualization to be problematic. We don't generally consider the Adam and Eve characters problematic, because they are an outlier in male representation.

I don't think sexualization is inherently problematic, but objectification is. And between Taro's explanation, the dissonance between 2B's combat role and an outfit designed for leering, and the camera (including an achievement for looking up her skirt), I think it's safe to say that 2B is an objectified character, not simply sexualized.

On the male characters, I think you're probably right that there's not an uproar because males are not sexually objectified by default in society. But I don't think it makes it okay. No objectification of characters should be glossed over as unimportant or silly simply because it's not the norm.
 
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Aniki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,807
Okay I take that back. After looking again at some screenshots of her. I had a somewhat different image of her in my memory.
 

Lotus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
106,049
In the end it seems not even the people who like Automata's chara design can find one reason for the double standards: some say it's because Yoko Taro just admitted he wanted to have a sexy girl, while others are implying he's criticizing actual sexualization (which I frankly doubt).

Not everyone thinks alike.
 

Wiggles

Member
Oct 28, 2017
492
Absolutely not true. An artist can create what he or she wants, but they are therefore opening themselves up to the same level of criticism and scrutiny as everyone else.

Criticism is not censorship.

I don't think criticism is something that needs to be responded to either. People can criticize work and frame it as "problematic" but the creator isn't under any obligation to care. I think what MCN meant by the market deciding was that as long as it has its fans and reaches its financial objectives, that's all that matters to the creator. Judging by Nier's score aggregate and financial success, the creators may as well ignore the detractors and carry on as normal - it would be a different scenario if there was a fan backlash, or a loss of sales, to the point at which the creator thought about needing to change their work. Even then, some artists still don't care if their work provokes outrage.
 

Pirate Bae

Edelgard Feet Appreciator
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,799
??
Well I mean what do you want to happen from the criticism? Do you want it to be changed? The design to be less sexy? Like when you criticize something it usually means you want whatever it is to be altered.

Unless you're criticizing it just to criticize it.
I want fair and equal representation of women in gaming and media in general. I want healthier portrayals of strong female characters, sex or no.

To me the design is an implication of a greater problem in the industry, and that being that female characters are often objectified and sexualized for no better reason than "tits and ass sells" and to represent harmful societal attitudes and behaviors regarding women in the real world, as a reflection.
 

Deleted member 24766

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
242
Not everyone thinks alike.

That is the wonderful thing about "art". Each person has a different experience. Someone could find something profound in the game, while another will think it was nothing but cheesy fun, while yet another could find a way to tie it into Kubrick filming the moon landing.
 

Yabberwocky

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,264
Is there a reason why 2B is so exposed in NieR: Automata?

Automata definitely has some interesting and intelligent things to say on gender (really great thoughts from Abstrusity above), but at the end of it all, I think it does really come down to Taro and Akihiko Yoshida enjoying a joint love of long legs and booty.
 

Unaha-Closp

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,732
Scotland
It's kinda like asking why is Kate Upton famous if you don't know who she is or anything. All you have to say is - are you aware of attractive women being used in advertising and movies and video games etc because a huge proportion of the audience likes attractive women? If yes then there is your answer. If no you need to look around and see how women have been sold on their looks and attractiveness for quite a long time now.
 

MCN

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,289
United Kingdom
I want fair and equal representation of women in gaming and media in general.

To me the design is an implication of a greater problem in the industry, and that being that female characters are often objectified and sexualized for no better reason than "tits and ass sells" and to represent harmful societal attitudes and behaviors regarding women in the real world, as a reflection.

So you want to change media to suit yourself? Is that right? How about let artists do what they do, and let the audience make their own decisions whether they want to support it?
 

Deleted member 21094

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
625
Here we go again!

I've already reached the understanding that there will be no understanding between the two sides, and there doesn't need to be.
Because criticism will always exist for these designs and there will be people that like them.
 

Deleted member 2793

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,368
Not everyone thinks alike.
Well yes, but apparently many here were thinking the same thing "why Nier gets a pass?". Many other games are bashed pre-release and discourse usually is around the (poor) character designs, so it's a bit strange how this was mostly ignored in Automata's discussions.
 

Pirate Bae

Edelgard Feet Appreciator
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,799
??
So you want to change media to suit yourself? Is that right? How about let artists do what they do, and let the audience make their own decisions whether they want to support it?
So you want the media to continue suiting you, a man, with little regard for the feelings or opinions of those who are hurt by such portrayals?
 

Puruzi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
891
Brooklyn, NY
I want fair and equal representation of women in gaming and media in general. I want healthier portrayals of strong female characters, sex or no.

To me the design is an implication of a greater problem in the industry, and that being that female characters are often objectified and sexualized for no better reason than "tits and ass sells" and to represent harmful societal attitudes and behaviors regarding women in the real world, as a reflection.
But do you want the design to be changed though. Because that's what the guy saying censorship meant i'm assuming. You can't say criticism isn't censorship if your criticism means that you want said thing to be altered,
 

MCN

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
2,289
United Kingdom
It's kinda like asking why is Kate Upton famous if you don't know who she is or anything. All you have to say is - are you aware of attractive women being used in advertising and movies and video games etc because a huge proportion of the audience likes attractive women? If yes then there is your answer. If no you need to look around and see how women have been sold on their looks and attractiveness for quite a long time now.

Basically anyone who gets screentime, male or female, is sold on their looks.
 

鬼作.

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
394
To think that there are people in this world who would want this perfect ass to be covered up fills me with genuine sadness.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
So you want to change media to suit yourself? Is that right? How about let artists do what they do, and let the audience make their own decisions whether they want to support it?

I mean I think giving today's environment it's fair to criticize how woman are portrayed in games. I don't think wishing for more equal representation is unfair.


Though to be brutally honest I don't want my "trashy stuff" to go away either. I'm all for better representation but I don't want my Senran Kaguras and 2B's to all disappear either.
 

Odesu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,548
It's the one thing I don't enjoy about Nier: Automata. Like, I know that Yoko Taro is upfront about it and when I asked him about it in one of the interviews I got the exact "because I enjoy women!"-type of answer everyone knows him for. However, he often hides a way more thoughtful position under his public trolling, often even using it as misdirection. So until the day it released I hoped for some reason behind these designs, maybe even something that undermines "waifu"-culture and the prevalence of Fanservice in these games. He did exactly that with Kaine, where her clothing invited you to think about her as nothing more than another piece of fanservice for the hardcore fans, only for her attire to play a major role in the building of her character. There is a reason Kaine dresses the way she does. And other characters in the game notice how weirdly she dresses. He used a stereotype and turned it on its head.

So I was pretty bummed out with this being nothing but "Eh, the dude from Final Fantasy really loves thighs!". I'm not outraged or mad but it legitimetely disctracts from the games strengths, as everything in this universe and story seems to be really, really well thought out and full of metacommentary about the medium itself. And then there is this one thing that is never explained in the game - the character design, which is totally at odds with everything else about this universe. It's not commentary or deconstruction, it's just a character designer liking these designs.

But do you want the design to be changed though. Because that's what the guy saying censorship meant i'm assuming. You can't say criticism isn't censorship if your criticism means that you want said thing to be altered,

No it isn't. That's censorship, which is the antithesis to liberalism.

Oh for fuck's sake...are you talking with a government agency trying to legally forbid someone from creating something? No? Then it's not censorship. It's a person not liking something who would rather see it replaced by something he likes more.

Did you ever talk about something you didn't like in a game and would rather have seen less of ? Some game mechanics you didn't like, a character you hated? Cool. That's not censorship. Please stop calling it that.
 
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Pirate Bae

Edelgard Feet Appreciator
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,799
??
But do you want the design to be changed though. Because that's what the guy saying censorship meant i'm assuming. You can't say criticism isn't censorship if your criticism means that you want said thing to be altered,
I like her overall design. I don't like how you can look up her skirt or blow her clothes to smithereens because girls are meant to be ogled. That's where my issue lies.
 

Lotus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
106,049
Well yes, but apparently many here were thinking the same thing "why Nier gets a pass?". Many other games are bashed pre-release and discourse usually is around the (poor) character designs, so it's a bit strange how this was mostly ignored in Automata's discussions.

It wasn't mostly ignored though. It didn't get a pass. Some of Taro's very own statements sparked discussion on the topic.

It just never reached the same heights as other prominent examples, for various reasons that have listed repeatedly in this thread. I don't know what else to tell you.
 

Iskra

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14
Why? What makes this game so special that no aspect of it can be examined or criticized?
No, it certainly isn't above criticism. It was just a stupid line, instead of meaningfully contributing to the discussion. I think it certainly is a game worth discussing.

What I meant is that the theme of the game is existentialism, which is partly about the limits of goal oriented reasoning. The impossibility of understanding existence, or understanding human beings through questions like "what is the reason for action x?". Sex and sexuality play an ambiguous role in all of this. Sex, tied to our need to reproduce, can be seen as our ultimate biological and evolutionary developed drive. The thing that explains our other actions. However that sexuality is impossible to define. We can explain our sex drive by reference to the drive for reproduction, however if you start from that drive one cannot explain why our sexuality takes the form that it takes (apparently even video games). I think that a game like this cannot be made without reference to empty and gratuitous sexuality. But in a way the game is itself a critique of it (that is a weak defense I know).

However, one does off course not need to agree with existentialism (I don't for instance). The question why certain things are represented in a certain way are important. I do however reject the notion that you can tell the same story, have the same vibe, but just remove certain elements.
 

Hentai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
176
It's the one thing I don't enjoy about Nier: Automata. Like, I know that Yoko Taro is upfront about it and when I asked him about it in one of the interviews I got the exact "because I enjoy women!"-type of answer everyone knows him for. However, he often hides a way more thoughtful position under his public trolling, often even using it as misdirection. So until the day it released I hoped for some reason behind these designs, maybe even something that undermines "waifu"-culture and the prevalence of Fanservice in these games. He did exactly that with Kaine, where her clothing invited you to think about her as nothing more than another piece of fanservice for the hardcore fans, only for her attire to play a major role in the building of her character. There is a reason Kaine dresses the way she does. And other characters in the game notice how weirdly she dresses. He used a stereotype and turned it on its head.

So I was pretty bummed out with this being nothing but "Eh, the dude from Final Fantasy really loves thighs!". I'm not outraged or mad but it legitimetely disctracts from the games strengths, as everything in this universe and story seems to be really, really well thought out and full of metacommentary about the medium itself. And then there is this one thing that is never explained in the game - the character design, which is totally at odds with everything else about this universe. It's not commentare or deconstruction, it's just a character designer liking these designs.

He already did that on NieR so he won't do it again on Automata. He's known for not doing that same thing twice.
 

Deleted member 24766

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
242
Well yes, but apparently many here were thinking the same thing "why Nier gets a pass?". Many other games are bashed pre-release and discourse usually is around the (poor) character designs, so it's a bit strange how this was mostly ignored in Automata's discussions.

There was most assuredly discussions about her character design from the outset. The thing is - the story explains why she is the way she is in a well told manner with excellent gameplay. Same thing with Bayonetta when that released. People like to compare it to Quiet from MGSV, but I feel like they are different cases. Nier: Automata had a (subjectively) excellent narrative that was married well with the designs and combat. MGSV and Quiet felt far too disjointed and silly, even for Kojima.
 

Necromanti

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,551
But do you want the design to be changed though. Because that's what the guy saying censorship meant i'm assuming. You can't say criticism isn't censorship if your criticism means that you want said thing to be altered,
But then this becomes a slippery slope of what kind of criticism we should allow. That seems like a very loose definition of censorship. Would wishing that something in the game were different constitute censorship? If I said that MGSV should have had coop missions and thought they should change it, is that censorship? Is it just limited to visual art?
 

Bossking

Member
Nov 20, 2017
1,434
You people realize that every Yoko Taro interview is filled with self-deprecation and comedic understatements, right? Taro never talks about the actual themes of his games in his interviews, he never breaks down the meaning. He mostly just answers with jokes. It's weird seeing everybody take "I like pretty girls" comment at total face value when the world of Nier is so fully thought out from its politics to its fucking marine ecology. Yeah, I'm sure he does in fact like pretty girls, but you're being disingenuous if you're saying that's there was no other thought put into the way 2B looks.

94d58ce9-39b7-404a-99eb-46a6ba55ff4c
mbi999e.png
 

Deleted member 13645

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,052
This is going to be a little bit long, but here's my explanation. I'm open to criticism, especially constructive.

The design has several roots into the themes and the story at large, but the gist of it is that Androids are dressing like humans would want to. It has a very submissive, sexual object imagery that is shown and is a perfectly valid way that the human race would depict living machines in any timeline (see: Ghost in the Shell Innocence, Pleasure Model Replicants in Blade Runner). The thing is, it remains a dress code that is stripped of meaning because of the lack of their progenitors (the humans) in their lives and them (then androids) acting as an autonomous entity devoid of any master. Without the lack of any meaningful supervision, Androids such as 2B and 9S are actively questioning the gender that they were given in terms of what they are wearing but also on how they should act and what their roles should be, both in combat and socially. They try to figure out if their outfits really denotes who they are and should be, and if the sexual attraction that they have between each other might or might not come from the social construct that humanity has built for them. But if you have never seen a human do it, what do you know about it ?

They are trying to emulate humans, but when the only legacy of humans is a destroyed world with relics of ancient time, they don't know how to emulate them, they don't know what it consists. Addressing their feelings and sexuality is a big part of the game, and 2B/9S are the witnesses that builds their character throughout the game:
  • Such as the way of seeing the way machines like Simone has feelings for Jean-Paul Sartre and continuously tries to beautify herself,
  • The way Adam and Eve acts along each other
  • How machines are trying to copulate even though they can't, or trying to make and take care of a baby.
At the same time we see androids working in an organization working towards the genocide of the Machine Race that is stripping them of any kind of humanity, down to what they wear. In key operations, she clearly wears a battle outfit in the last push to wipe out the machines, it neuters her individuality even more.

i1488784170629828jzzjb.jpeg


2B and 9S are very clearly in a fascist space that actively tries to suppress sexuality in any way, but their interactions with machine is a direct representation of how humanity works, of how it plays out, of how social constructs are really created, and how they can remove themselves from it. Let's go back to the clothes, that are very important to the game itself :

  • A2, who has long left YorHa lets herself be stripped down of her clothes as time goes on, as she knows the truth about humanity and her world crumbled because of it.
  • Adam and Eve are quite literally the opposite, they have such a thirst of knowing humans that their birth, naked and even genderless, works tirelessly to adhere to humanity's way of labeling themselves. They dress up, they create a brotherly bond. They want to experience feelings, they want to experience death.
I'd even add that 2B's dress takes into account that the internet as a whole will try to label it as sexualized and identified only through horny fanarts. Her dress is owned up by the fandom, but playing the game totally reveals that the fandom plays her into a social construct that 2B ultimately doesn't adhere. 2B is all about understanding what humanity has done in their existence, and through the emulation that machines has undertaken throughout their journey, take it into application to know what they have to take unto themselves, and know what they shouldn't. I don't think it's a stretch that the whole marketing of Yoko Taro also plays out in the game. It shifts expectations, and the gaze that we possess from our internet culture, in the same way that ending E shifts expectations of how we address the way we play a video game. It's figuring what is important, and what is worth leaving behind for ending E (Are Your memories more important ? Or your save ? Someone else's memories ?) in the same way for humanity (Your memories ? Their memories ?).

I think it's misguided to think only in terms of how salacious it is when it has a purpose. The story of a female character is not less or more relevant by the amount of fabric, it's about what the game does with it, and what we do with it as a player. Artistic merit, interpretation, our gaze, many things that allows us to understand something outside of the marketing. Something can be fanservice, and has a very important purpose, they are not mutually exclusive. Automata plays into that, very clearly.

I think another aspect could be (full spoilers)
2B's entire existence and purpose is to kill 9S over and over as soon as he starts piecing things together. Her being attractive to him would help with allowing her to get close to him to carry out her task when she needs to.
 

AgeEighty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,452
This seems like an odd target for this debate, to me. 2B's outfit is alluring and certainly sexualized, but it's far from being among the worst offenders in this regard.

I'm all for fairer, more equal representations of women in gaming, but I also don't think that achieving that means banishing the concept of enjoying sexuality for its own sake. We need to address the imbalance, but that doesn't mean raising a hue and cry every time we see a little leg that doesn't have a story purpose.
 

Aniki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,807
It's the one thing I don't enjoy about Nier: Automata. Like, I know that Yoko Taro is upfront about it and when I asked him about it in one of the interviews I got the exact "because I enjoy women!"-type of answer everyone knows him for. However, he often hides a way more thoughtful position under his public trolling, often even using it as misdirection. So until the day it released I hoped for some reason behind these designs, maybe even something that undermines "waifu"-culture and the prevalence of Fanservice in these games. He did exactly that with Kaine, where her clothing invited you to think about her as nothing more than another piece of fanservice for the hardcore fans, only for her attire to play a major role in the building of her character. There is a reason Kaine dresses the way she does. And other characters in the game notice how weirdly she dresses. He used a stereotype and turned it on its head.

So I was pretty bummed out with this being nothing but "Eh, the dude from Final Fantasy really loves thighs!". I'm not outraged or mad but it legitimetely disctracts from the games strengths, as everything in this universe and story seems to be really, really well thought out and full of metacommentary about the medium itself. And then there is this one thing that is never explained in the game - the character design, which is totally at odds with everything else about this universe. It's not commentare or deconstruction, it's just a character designer liking these designs.

I love the gothic design so much. If it weren't for the sexualized parts of it. It really is an unique and awesome design otherwise, sigh.
 

chogidogs

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,357
The point about androids not knowing any better is good and all but Yoko Taro also designed Kaine. Just saying.
 

Pirate Bae

Edelgard Feet Appreciator
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,799
??
Criticism is fine, but saying something should not be allowed to exist at all is not.
Are panty shots on an otherwise normally-dressed character artistic expression now? Come on.

If you can't see how real life women might feel offended and degraded because of that, I don't know what to tell you.
 
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