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Is there A SINGLE good argument against veganism? They all seem to boil down to "it tastes so good"
- Thread starter Deleted member 2834
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Fields have tons of rodents and rabbits. I live next to a green belt and a rabbit jumped under the fence and decapitated itself while I mowed. I've seen the hundreds of rabbits in the greenbelt, so it's not surprising what happens when you harvest a field.
it tastes good is a good argument in my opinion
also, certain dishes and foods are parts of the cultural heritage and traditions of various ethnicities. i don't think you should deny people their traditions
also, certain dishes and foods are parts of the cultural heritage and traditions of various ethnicities. i don't think you should deny people their traditions
OP
OP
Well, lamenting Trump's climate change stance but participating in animal farming for a petty reason as recreation seems at least somewhat inconsistent. It's bizarre to hear people say "mind your own business" and both sides-ing an issue, where one side is clearly the one doing all the damage - damage, that will likely amount to something nobody can just ignore down the line.
I agree with the first paragraph, but differ with the second. While I don't like that things have to suffer for the world to be fed, we were kinda dealt the hand without a say, and many (nearly all) of us don't have the latitude to replace meat, dairy, eggs, and fish. Veganism is a noble goal, but as lifestyle activism? White bougie bullshit.
Don't think anyone reasonable expects the world to turn vegan or whatever but at least try to eat less meat at least least a few times a week. Save the planet family.
Do you really think there is no difference in either moral intent or environmental impact when comparing accidentally killing rabbits during harvesting and raising and slaughtering animals for consumption.
I don't eat food purely for biology, and even if I did, I as with all humans am an omnivore.
Also, there is no such thing as ethical consumption.
Live with that as you type on your phone or laptop.
But realistically, this thread is really just some weird self-congratulatory rant.
Which is why no one likes vegans.
Also, there is no such thing as ethical consumption.
Live with that as you type on your phone or laptop.
But realistically, this thread is really just some weird self-congratulatory rant.
Which is why no one likes vegans.
It turns out that you CAN see a tomato scream!
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/09/180913142026.htm
We figured that plants can send signals when somebody eats them.
I think that underneath vegetarianism or vegan or whatever is a sense of shock that, actually, nature really is that brutal and it's really all about eat or be eaten. Of course that doesn't mean that just because nature is cruel humans should act like dicks as an excuse. But something somewhere had to die so you could eat it, and the faster you deal with it the better off you'll be.
I'm all for happy chickens and buffaloes roaming free but I'm not gonna expect perfection. Sure I'll have the veggie sandwich cuz is delicious but not because of morality or being more "natural". Dying in childbirth is also natural and humanity noped at that.
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/09/180913142026.htm
We figured that plants can send signals when somebody eats them.
I think that underneath vegetarianism or vegan or whatever is a sense of shock that, actually, nature really is that brutal and it's really all about eat or be eaten. Of course that doesn't mean that just because nature is cruel humans should act like dicks as an excuse. But something somewhere had to die so you could eat it, and the faster you deal with it the better off you'll be.
I'm all for happy chickens and buffaloes roaming free but I'm not gonna expect perfection. Sure I'll have the veggie sandwich cuz is delicious but not because of morality or being more "natural". Dying in childbirth is also natural and humanity noped at that.
You don't have to argue against veganism. You argue yourself into veganism or you remain a meat eater.
I think it is a tough sell to convince today's people to go vegan. Most people are simply too selfish and shortsighted to do so, even if it would directly prevent the planet from turning into a smoking ruin during their own lifetimes. See responses in this very thread like "it tastes too good, so suck it". Also, veganism is too far a step for most people even if they are willing to make a change, vegetarian is more reasonable.
The big problem I have with eating meat is people, especially in North America, are grossly abusive of it. You have an entire culture of meat 2-3 times a day "gotta have my bacon-wrapped-bacon", etc. Health implications aside, it is contributing directly to the harm to our planet.
It's not realistic to remove meat entirely from our diet, primarily due to these cultural reasons. But I would very much love to see moderation. Taking the above example behavior, reducing that meat consumption to a handful, or even one time a week would have a hugely beneficial impact. Smaller, less frequent portions would really not require that big of a sacrifice.
I am not vegan nor vegetarian myself. But I eat a reasonable sized portion of meat 1, perhaps 2 times a week. I eat cheese (hard to give that one up) but use substitutes like almond milk and sometimes soy yogurt where applicable. This has not drastically changed my life style and I feel better about my personal environmental footprint. Also wherever possible I pay a few dollars more to get meat that is humane/ethically sourced, local farms, etc. Since I am eating a reduce amount of meat, the additional cost does not have a very noticeable impact, whereas if I was eating meat 2-3 times a day it would probably not be financially viable to do this.
So it is certainly possible to continue to enjoy meat, yet be more responsible about it and recognize what you can do to improve the situation for yourself and everyone else. The key, as in most things in life, is in moderation.
The big problem I have with eating meat is people, especially in North America, are grossly abusive of it. You have an entire culture of meat 2-3 times a day "gotta have my bacon-wrapped-bacon", etc. Health implications aside, it is contributing directly to the harm to our planet.
It's not realistic to remove meat entirely from our diet, primarily due to these cultural reasons. But I would very much love to see moderation. Taking the above example behavior, reducing that meat consumption to a handful, or even one time a week would have a hugely beneficial impact. Smaller, less frequent portions would really not require that big of a sacrifice.
I am not vegan nor vegetarian myself. But I eat a reasonable sized portion of meat 1, perhaps 2 times a week. I eat cheese (hard to give that one up) but use substitutes like almond milk and sometimes soy yogurt where applicable. This has not drastically changed my life style and I feel better about my personal environmental footprint. Also wherever possible I pay a few dollars more to get meat that is humane/ethically sourced, local farms, etc. Since I am eating a reduce amount of meat, the additional cost does not have a very noticeable impact, whereas if I was eating meat 2-3 times a day it would probably not be financially viable to do this.
So it is certainly possible to continue to enjoy meat, yet be more responsible about it and recognize what you can do to improve the situation for yourself and everyone else. The key, as in most things in life, is in moderation.
Personally I don't see anything morally wrong with killing and eating an animal.
Now I don't like how farm animals are often treated, but I find that a separate issue from whether or not it's ok to eat meat in general. I also think that we should cut back on it. Not every meal needs to have meat.
Now I don't like how farm animals are often treated, but I find that a separate issue from whether or not it's ok to eat meat in general. I also think that we should cut back on it. Not every meal needs to have meat.
You're the one trying to shame people into becoming vegan and discrediting any argument other than yours as invalid.
I lived vegetarian for 3 years but started to eat meat again because I enjoy it. I couldn't care less if you find that argument invalid or not because for me it's absolutely valid.
I'm not the one pretending to have the moral high ground. Plenty of animals die harvesting crops. That's a fact. So unless your growing all your vegan meals in your own yard your contributing to the death of probably thousands of animals monthly if not daily.
What's stopping someone from coming up with good arguments? So far it's "but I like it", "God engineered us to eat hot dogs", and "what about that bug you stepped on today", but surely there are others?
It's not about a "moral high ground" but if you want to talk about morality, please don't pretend that the unintended killing of animals and insects is morally the same as as the purposeful slaughter of livestock for food. This also says nothing of the environmental impact used to sustain meat consumption worldwide.
Animal protein contains the complete amino acids we require for optimal health.
Some plants do as well, but there's a lot of debate on whether you can get all of the essential amino acids the human body requires from plants. In fact, there are studies that state you absolutely cannot.
The common consensus is that a mixture of both is likely best.
Some plants do as well, but there's a lot of debate on whether you can get all of the essential amino acids the human body requires from plants. In fact, there are studies that state you absolutely cannot.
The common consensus is that a mixture of both is likely best.
Other omnivores wouldn't hesitate to eat me if they had the chance. Eating them maintains humanity's position as the dominant species of this planet. It would have never happened if we hadn't started eating the dinosaurs back in the day. So if we stop eating animals we're signaling to them that we've gone soft and we'll leave ourselves open to animal rebellion.
As someone who eats keto a good % of the time, I mostly agree with this. Though It is possible to follow a low-carb diet while eating vegan, it's pretty damn difficult.
And a lot of vegans tend to react very negatively to the keto diet. Telling vegans to not eat fruit is like telling meat eaters to not eat meat lol
Also:
https://theconversation.com/ordering-the-vegetarian-meal-theres-more-animal-blood-on-your-hands-4659
Published figures suggest that, in Australia, producing wheat and other grains results in:
https://theconversation.com/ordering-the-vegetarian-meal-theres-more-animal-blood-on-your-hands-4659
Published figures suggest that, in Australia, producing wheat and other grains results in:
- at least 25 times more sentient animals being killed per kilogram of useable protein
- more environmental damage, and
- a great deal more animal cruelty than does farming red meat.
My palate is incredibly limited as is - potentially owing to my autism, though it's a plurality rather than majority who have this issue - and removing meat from it would basically screw me over. I realise the OP has adjusted for conditions and all, but I wanted to comment since it's not a strict dietary thing as opposed to overwhelming comfort and preference due to limited taste.
I honestly have no idea if this is a (great) joke post or not. That's the level of discourse in these kinds of thread.
Animals eat other animals. That's nature. Human's are biologically engineered to eat meat, it's how we lived for millions of years. Agriculture is only a few thousand years old. Although ancient humans ate some vegetation it was never our primary source of food.
How many other things do humans do purely for enjoyment?
Should we all give up gaming as well? The only reason we do that is to have fun.
100% this. We must learn from our mistakes. As soon as the hippie cavemen and cavewomen stopped eating Dino meat out of some sense of moral superiority what happened? Jurassic Park. And I think we all know how that turned out.
OP
OP
Hold on, why did your sentence end there? Didn't you forget to add something? Let me rephrase it: "How many other things do humans purely do for enjoyment that involves the mass torture and slaughter of sentient beings and that contributes to climate change to a substantial degree?". I don't know, dude. I'm pretty sure the answer is nothing. Or certainly nothing anybody in this thread would approve of.
There are some peeps where a vegan diet can actually be harmful to them for varying health reasons
What they usually do is either go vegetarian or mix in the items they need, then call it square
For most that's not the case but there are, as usual, exceptions to that rule
What they usually do is either go vegetarian or mix in the items they need, then call it square
For most that's not the case but there are, as usual, exceptions to that rule
Well if gaming is sending the planet toward an ecological catastrophe, we should problably rethink it ASAP, yes.
Capitalism is sending us toward an ecological catastrophe, we should probably rethink it ASAP."]
Seitan is godly, but expensive as hell and a no-go for people who have to limit their carbs.
1) Access to a pure vegan diet may be difficult in certain places, ie. very northern climates.
2) Meat is a very good source of certain nutrition, and so is the optimal way to gain them. iirc B12 is only found in meat, you've got heme-iron which is much easier to absorb by your body, you've got the protein source which is much easier to absorb, etc.
3) Some people actually are not better off vegan because of the above. They just can't seem to get the above nutrients and end up feeling shitty, because guess what, every human is unique in it's dietary requirements (genes and stuff)
4) It is the circle of life, which coming from a "humans are so woke that we don't need meat" mentality might be hard to fathom.
In order to survive, we must eat something else that is alive. That is just the reality of the situation. Whether you choose to destroy plants or animals is up to you.
5) Since we have commandeered the planet to the degree we have, there will always be room for hunting certain species to keep them in check like deer. If there will be nutrition up for grabs then I think it would be better if we don't waste it (so to speak, it will still be digested and used by other plants and animals).
My thoughts at this moment. I could go vegan though, I seem to function fine while on that diet, but usually I eat a meat product every week or so.
Hunting is required to keep deer populations at a sustainable level lest they grow out of control, strip their habitat of food, suffer from starvation and disease, and massively increase traffic accidents.
Humans have displaced the grey wolf and mountain lion as their natural predators so it is our responsibility to maintain balance.
Plus venison is delicious.
Also produce gets significantly more expensive than chicken and eggs where I live during the winter, unless vegans expect everyone to eat processed canned vegetables that contain ungodly amounts of sodium.
Humans have displaced the grey wolf and mountain lion as their natural predators so it is our responsibility to maintain balance.
Plus venison is delicious.
Also produce gets significantly more expensive than chicken and eggs where I live during the winter, unless vegans expect everyone to eat processed canned vegetables that contain ungodly amounts of sodium.
Not a vegan, but I'm aware they are in the right. Currently a vegetarian and hoping we reach a point soon where synthetic meat and dairy substitutes become affordable and indistinguishable, so there are no longer any excuses.
Right now, economic reasons are the main point against it I can see.
Right now, economic reasons are the main point against it I can see.
Prepare for people who have never researched nutrition becoming dietitians, B12 HORROR DEATH, and so on like every other similar thread.
That still doesn't make "tastes good" a bad argument.
Yes, we all have to weigh the pros and cons, but your entire thread is seemingly based on the notion that the pro "taste" (which is a rediculous simplification) is a moot point. Remake this thread with this argument instead:
"Taste is great but isn't enough to outweigh the cons of meat eating; dont you agree?"
Because that is what you are actually arguing.
i posted some, neither you or OP must have read them though ................... *dabs on you* *yeets on you* *seasons a chicken wing over you*
Oh Lord.
"It tastes good" is a fine argument on its own.
I might be against some of the inhumane practices used to kill animals for their meat, but no, I do not think the act of killing animals to eat is in any way wrong. Circle of life, yadda yadda, and so on.
Stuck up vegans are the worst.
"It tastes good" is a fine argument on its own.
I might be against some of the inhumane practices used to kill animals for their meat, but no, I do not think the act of killing animals to eat is in any way wrong. Circle of life, yadda yadda, and so on.
Stuck up vegans are the worst.
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