Is there still something weird about Leon going into a village and blasting everything to pieces?

[Vex]

Like, I'm just thinking about this RE4 demo. And I still haven't gotten over the how quickly he goes from the "investigation " phase to "so I started blasting". Like... he spent no time de-escalating any threat. In the demo, he just starts snooping around this guy's home and touching shit that isn't his. In original it was just as bad too.

He literally walks into someone's home (trespassing) without producing a warrant of some sort and starts questioning people. Then he leaves the home with a body count. That sounds so familiar.... Hmmm...


I guess I'm asking.... What are your thoughts on this, ERA? Does this make you uncomfortable at all?

 

[Mechaplum]

I mean their eyes are red aren't they?

 

[Dreamboum]

warrant? he's illegal the moment he stepped in spain with a gun

 

[Vex]

I mean their eyes are red aren't they?

Click to shrink...

So that allows you access to someone's home without documentation? Because they look funny? LoL?


In case you're joking, I'm laughing too btw

 

[red731]

Leon the hooligan

 

[Neiteio]

A guy swung an axe at him after he simply asked some questions

 

[nsilvias]

the people in the village didnt hesitate. they just started attacking leon like its something they just do everyday

 

[DGenerator]

"There's something not right about this secret agent dropped into a foreign country under the direction of the President of the United States to bring back the President's daughter killing people who attacked first and after investigating local police. He should call up a judge."

WHAT

 

[LewieP]

He is initially working in conjunction with local law enforcement.

 

[Vex]

A guy swung an axe at him after he simply asked some questions

Click to shrink...

Yea but why was he even in the guy's home?


The process should've went like this:

1. He knocks
2. He gets no answer
3. He calls out is anyone home.
4. He gets no answer.
5. He moves on (maybe to the next home)
6. The end.

That's literally it. Instead he ENTERED THE HOME.

 

[Dreamboum]

to be fair he was nice enough to ask him in spanish so he's the most well-mannered american cop

 

[Aarogi]

Justice for the police murdering, broken neck, tentacle-bearing innocents! Justice!

 

[DGenerator]

"Sorry, Mr. President, I wasn't able to advance further into rural Spain and save your daughter. Nobody answered the door at this house."

 

[Neiteio]

Yea but why was he even in the guy's home?


The process should've went like this:

1. He knocks
2. He gets no answer
3. He calls out is anyone home.
4. He gets no answer.
5. He moved on
6. The end.

That's literally it. Instead he ENTERED THE HOME.

Click to shrink...

Right. But nobody would have died if a guy didn't try to axe him. If your issue is he entered the house, alright, but the actual violence was self-defense.

The real crime here is we still don't have the giant Salazar robot confirmed!

 

[Saturday]

i get the thread

but also you walk into the village square and .00000001 seconds in you see the villagers set fire to a man hung on a cross

i don't know the due process for that type of stuff

 

[th1nk]

 

[Vindenak]

i get the thread

but also you walk into the village square and >00000001 seconds in you see the villagers set fire to a man hung on a cross

i don't know the due process for that type of stuff

Click to shrink...

I live in rural Spain and I can confirm that's just a thing we do every Tuesday for funsies, it was rude of Leon to interrupt a local tradition.

 

[Alvis]

 

[Vex]

"Sorry, Mr. President, I wasn't able to advance further into rural Spain and save your daughter. Nobody answered the door at this house."

Click to shrink...

Right. Being a secret agent makes you immune to getting shot or killed by walking into someone else's home. I don't care if you are the president of the United States, if you walk into anyone's home (as in, open the door uninvited) you are going to be met with aggression. Especially at night. I'm not sure where you are from, but being a "secret agent" has nothing to do with catching the fade on entry to someone else's property.

😤

 

[Vex]

editing out of respect.

 

[TheMadTitan]

Can't be worse than him rolling into potential danger with only 10 rounds of ammo.

 

[Vex]

i get the thread

but also you walk into the village square and .00000001 seconds in you see the villagers set fire to a man hung on a cross

i don't know the due process for that type of stuff

Click to shrink...

The village square happens AFTER the fact tho. Im talking about the opening. None of that was established until AFTER the initial encounter.

 

[Messofanego]

"Sorry, Mr. President, I wasn't able to advance further into rural Spain and save your daughter. Nobody answered the door at this house."

Click to shrink...

If only Americans were this nice. Then we wouldn't have imperialism!

 

[GoutPatrol]

I don't care, they fucking started it

 

[Soj]

I do kind of want the game where Leon does just shoot up a small village because of a language barrier misunderstanding.

 

[Saturday]

The village square happens AFTER the fact tho. Im talking about the opening. None of that was established until AFTER the initial encounter.

Click to shrink...

this ain't philosophy 'if a man being burnt alive isn't observed by Leon Kennedy does it really happen' bullshit, we can learn shit after the fact to get context and even if Leon was knocking on doors all polite-like he'da stumbled unto seeing that cop got cooked either way

that village is sus

I live in rural Spain and I can confirm that's just a thing we do every Tuesday for funsies, it was rude of Leon to interrupt a local tradition.

Click to shrink...

this however i literally have no argument against so shit, leon's a asshat

 

[Igniz12]

At least he tried to communicate in their native language this time before he started blasting.

 

[Creepy Woody]

The house looked pretty dilapidated, and he kept calling out is anybody there. Then as soon as he saw the first Ganado he says sorry for barging in.

If the Ganado just said "yes there is someone living here, were not all rich, and I don't know anything, get out my house" I'm sure he would have.

 

[AkimbOb-omb]

Well he's a cop. Cops do horrible things to people.

 

[Alienous]

He touches shit that isn't his, specifically the bloodied badge of a police officer, then follows screams to that officer's corpse before using a gun.

 

[Vex]

this ain't philosophy 'if a man being burnt alive isn't observed by Leon Kennedy does it really happen' bullshit, we can learn shit after the fact to get context and even if Leon was knocking on doors all polite like that cop got cooked either way

Click to shrink...

Except that's not what I'm saying

Based off of the information he could have had at that point, there was no reason for him to even enter the home and kill someone. It should have never happened. Period. That's literally it. Like... that's the argument. No one has yet given a counter argument to this. Because you can't. It's not possible. There's no "philosophy" involved here. Just a normal, balanced human right to privacy in the home and not getting killed.

If I *think* something is up with you or you're acting weird, that's MY problem. You're allowed to be weird. That shouldn't give me access to your home at all.

Everyone should understand this.

 

[Modest_Modsoul]

No?

 

[L Thammy]

He's there for like a minute before a guy with a paper bag starts trying to cut his head off with a chainsaw and the car he entered with is trashed.

To emphasize the second point, this is discussed on a recurring basis throughout the entire game. Leon doesn't have access to a getaway vehicle. He doesn't want to shoot through everything there, he wants to leave. Several attempts are made to send him a rescue vehicle and they're all shot down.

 

[LossAversion]

I did feel a bit like... "am I really just going to slit this woman's throat without cause"? when I snuck to the left in the village.

But to be fair... they did just burn a dude alive in the town square so...

 

[L Thammy]

Well he's a cop.

Click to shrink...

Only for a day though.

 

[L Thammy]

Except that's not what I'm saying

Based off of the information he could have had at that point, there was no reason for him to even enter the home and kill someone. It should have never happened. Period. That's literally it. Like... that's the argument. No one has yet given a counter argument to this. Because you can't. It's not possible. There's no "philosophy" involved here. Just a normal, balanced human right to privacy in the home and not getting killed.

If I *think* something is up with you or you're acting weird, that's MY problem. You're allowed to be weird. That shouldn't give me access to your home at all.

Everyone should understand this.

Click to shrink...

Speaking seriously for the moment, if we're going to approach this as if it's in the real world, we're ignoring another legal conundrum. In much of the world, you don't have a right to kill or maim people who enter your house without asking. In some places you do! In much of the United States, if someone enters your house, you're entitled to shoot them. But in other parts of the world, the intruder is still a human being who has human rights, and the law does not encourage you to harm them if it isn't necessary to protect yourself from harm. And if you do intentionally cause harm to them, it's you that's liable for that, just as they're liable for the intrusion.

Additionally, whether something qualifies as trespassing can be affected by whether there's been any effort made to prevent entry. Businesses often leave their doors open and people walk in and out all the time. The people who enter aren't considered to be trespassing until the business tells them to leave or not to come back.

 

[Saturday]

Except that's not what I'm saying

Based off of the information he could have had at that point, there was no reason for him to even enter the home and kill someone. It should have never happened. Period. That's literally it. Like... that's the argument. No one has yet given a counter argument to this. Because you can't. It's not possible. There's no "philosophy" involved here. Just a normal, balanced human right to privacy in the home and not getting killed.

If I *think* something is up with you or you're acting weird, that's MY problem. You're allowed to be weird. That shouldn't give me access to your home at all.

Everyone should understand this.

Click to shrink...

Alright alright let's change tack here because what I'm getting at is that context is king here

Leon's a cop; it's hard not to hold that against him but we'll give him the benefit of the doubt here because he's got a mission. his two partners go missing. he goes to the nearest house, and the door is left unlocked. there's dead animal corpses. there's no actual indication the residence is occupied or otherwise containing evil despite the title of the game. can you blame the man for popping his head in?

if leon was a tourist, would we go "oh yeah castle doctrine or whatever, start swinging the axes if the tourist gets on the front porch"

i feel like i dunno, in terms of de-escalation the villager did nothing on his part considering there was no initial disagreement to which to ramp up. where are the 'private property' signs. why is his door not locked and the fences not closed.

actually having typed this out and made the cop comparison i feel like making a argument for leon sucks, you know what leon should be in jail

 

[Heazy]

isn't that what cops do best tho? /s

 

[Bedlam]

Yea but why was he even in the guy's home?


The process should've went like this:

1. He knocks
2. He gets no answer
3. He calls out is anyone home.
4. He gets no answer.
5. He moves on (maybe to the next home)
6. The end.

That's literally it. Instead he ENTERED THE HOME.

Click to shrink...

It some US states it'd be a clear case of the "stand your ground" law and the Las Plagas zombie would win against Leon in court.

But since the game takes place in Spain/Europe, it's more complicated. You cannot just use deadly force even against an intruder unless your life is immediately threatened or something like that. But the zombie attacked Leon insidiuosly from behind, meaning Leon is prrobably in the right to defend himself, even after committing the crime of breaking into the house beforehand.

 

[mrmickfran]

¿Qué carajo estás haciendo aquí?
¡Lárgate cabrón!

 

[Primal Sage]

Did you know that in Super Mario Bros, the protagonist only seconds into the game curb stomps one of the locals? He then goes on a rampant vandalism spree and demolishes local works of art such as the Floating Blocks of Mushroom Kingdom sculpture. Then he takes some drugs and is all like "duuude, I feel sooo biiig!" and goes on a mass-murder spree and finishes the day's work of mayhem by climbing someone's flag pole and pulling down their flag. Dude's a menace!

For those goombas, it was the worst day of their lives. For Mario… it was Tuesday.

 

[Papercuts]

There was a point in the RE4 demo where I was sneaking around the village slitting a woman's throat where I started to wonder if I was the baddie.

But that was also after walking beyond a massacred animal, barbed wire, and seeing someone get burned alive, so eh.

 

[{Marvelous}]

With hair like that? No.

 

[Vex]

I did feel a bit like... "am I really just going to slit this woman's throat without cause"? when I snuck to the left in the village.

But to be fair... they did just burn a dude alive in the town square so...

Click to shrink...

And that's another thing. At least at this point we know this is an evil group of people, BUT!


BUT!! HOW DO WE KNOW SHE WAS APART OF THAT GROUP? What if she was being held against her will there as a worker? What if she really was just washing clothes or preparing food out of fear? I couldn't see what she was doing exactly but maybe she never killed a single person in her life and we just snuck up on her and killed her? I'm kinda joking here, but also I'm not.

Like... afterwards she tries to kill us with the rest of the villagers if you let her live, but hindsight is always 20/20. We don't actually know (or we're not supposed to know) that before hand. I killed her too (by sneaking) in the demo and I was surprised how much I actually thought the same as you. "Am I really just gonna kill her?"

In the OG re4 I just killed everyone, post opening, without thinking. In the demo, I felt it. Is this just better graphics making us think more about our virtual selves??

Interesting to think about.

Edit:

There was a point in the RE4 demo where I was sneaking around the village slitting a woman's throat where I started to wonder if I was the baddie.

Click to shrink...

Yea Crazy huh? Yup. Same here.

i feel like i dunno, in terms of de-escalation the villager did nothing on his part considering there was no initial disagreement to which to ramp up. where are the 'private property' signs. why is his door not locked and the fences not closed.

Click to shrink...

Yea I guess you could say Leon just being really observant of the scene in general kinda gave him reason to investigate as he did. It was kinda creepy, but I worry that sometimes we forget that others can be weird and creepy and still want privacy. People can have an illness that makes their eyes red. Or makes them twitch. Or people might need medication for an illness and they didn't get it on time and Leon just killed that first guy without knowing this (again: we know NOW). I'm with you all post axe murderer mode, but before that? I think that's a grey area. It just makes me uncomfortable is all.

But yea, good point.

 

[Foolish]

Only part that felt like it was weird was sneaking to the left in the village and neck-stabbing the old woman holding a pitchfork right away. While it's true that Leon just witnessed a cop get strung up and incinerated, he had no cause to believe the random old lady could A: be guilty in it, or B: attempt to lethally attack him when spotted, or C: Be infected by the parasite. But from our omniscient view as players, we know full well killing that old lady is justified because she's a spooky zombie monster. So that makes it okay.

 

[Paroni]

No issues personally. I'm incapable of feeling empathy towards video game characters in general, especially in games like RE4 where I go in knowing that they're all intended enemies.

 

[Greywaren]

To be fair, tourists coming to Spain and wrecking shit is pretty common. A bit less murder, maybe, but still.

 

[Foffy]

He's an agent of the United States government. He's following procedure.

 

[Nakenorm]

Maybe he didn't have the rights to step into that house, but I'm glad he did.

 

[PeterThePanda]

In the OG Leon enters the house, starts asking about Ashley without proper authority backup when they are RIGHT THERE , and the villager literally tells to get the fuck out of there before attack ing him.

In Remake though, the authorities go first, they don't respond for a while, Leon goes to check the house, starts asking if anyone is there, the first villager doesn't respond to any question, and instead of asking about Ashley, Leon asks about the cop that surely was here not long ago, before seeing the bloody badge and then he's attacked from the back.

In the OG the order of events makes Leon looks more like an trespasser, but apart from not calling at the door, I Think remakes order of events are far more realistic.

Also, being a Spaniard, English speaking tourists coming here and not following the law is as common as breathing, so maybe I have a bias here.