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It has finally happened - the first 4:54 in Super Mario Bros. Any%

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JayCB64

JayCB64

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Oct 25, 2017
10,997
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4:54:97!!

Super Mario Bros. speedrunner Niftski has become the first to ever get a 4:54 in Super Mario Bros, and by proxy the first to ever cross the last possible second barrier to be broken, which is something the scene has been grinding towards for some time now. For reference, the TASbot time is 4:54.26, so the most this record could be brought down is minuscule - the game is almost over!

No VOD yet, but I'll update when there is one, so here's the former WR from Miniland




ALSO if you are interested in knowing more information on the crazy strats used for these kind of runs, I highly recommend this (admittedly slightly out of date but still extremely well made) video from the excellent speedrun content creator, Bismuth!

 
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chaobreaker

chaobreaker

One Winged Slayer
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Oct 27, 2017
5,570
Just amazing how they're so close to TAS time. Unless anyone finds any new speedrun tech, the game is basically done.
 
PlayBee

PlayBee

One Winged Slayer
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Nov 8, 2017
5,545
tapedeck said:
Imagine if you could show this to Miyamoto in 1996.
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He'd probably have the same reaction as Sakurai here

not-how-you-play-the-game.png
 
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JayCB64

JayCB64

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Oct 25, 2017
10,997
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Added a great video Bismuth did on breaking down SMB strats into the OP - if you haven't been following SMB speedrunning I highly recommend you watch at some point, it's a little out of date now but it gives you such a great insight into some of the stuff that the runners need to do in order to pull off such incredible runs.
 
Josh5890

Josh5890

I'm Your Favorite Poster's Favorite Poster
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
23,362
It isn't an NES controller, but i don't care.

Great accomplishment!
 
Darknight

Darknight

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
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Oct 25, 2017
22,916
Wow, I didn't know you could go through the pipe like that in 1-2.
 
NotLiquid

NotLiquid

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Oct 25, 2017
34,834
I'm thinking back to the last time Summoning Salt documented Any% world records for SMB, which was four years ago - when the record was 4:57.

Even though the game still regularly sees new world records in both Any% and Warpless, it's insane that a game can be so well optimized that it now takes years now just to shave off whole single seconds from runs.

Legendary milestone being hit here. Have to wonder whether this is truly the ceiling.
 
mordecaii83

mordecaii83

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
6,870
Curious about whether the keyboard (and possibly emulator) provided any advantage over using a traditional console and controller, I'm actually a little surprised it's allowed for a WR run.

Either way, I don't want to take away from the insane execution it took to make this happen, congrats to the runner!
 
Unknownlight

Unknownlight

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Nov 2, 2017
10,619
chaobreaker said:
Just amazing how they're so close to TAS time. Unless anyone finds any new speedrun tech, the game is basically done.
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The TAS has remained unchanged for 10 years now for the most comprehensively analyzed game of all time, so it's unlikely that there are speedrun techs left to discover. This really is it, I think. The final minute barrier. That's crazy.
 
Jodez99

Jodez99

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Jan 1, 2018
3,645
mordecaii83 said:
Curious about whether the keyboard (and possibly emulator) provided any advantage over using a traditional console and controller, I'm actually a little surprised it's allowed for a WR run.

Either way, I don't want to take away from the insane execution it took to make this happen, congrats to the runner!
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Have the same thoughts. Especially after watching the other vid in the OP from the previous record.
 
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JayCB64

JayCB64

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Oct 25, 2017
10,997
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RE: Emulators, you are okay to use one but you must be playing on an emulator that can record input files and splits - it'll be reviewed after that to make sure that nothing has been tampered with, they are pretty thorough on checking it all through. Niftski is a known runner so it should be certified pretty soon.
 
oatmeal

oatmeal

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Oct 30, 2017
4,553
Call me nuts - but isn't it kind of cheating to use a keyboard and not play on the NES?
 
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JayCB64

JayCB64

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Oct 25, 2017
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oatmeal said:
Call me nuts - but isn't it kind of cheating to use a keyboard and not play on the NES?
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Nah it's all the same -you're required to submit a full log of your key inputs that the emulator records, so if you tried doing something that an NES controller wouldn't allow then they'd know and disqualify you.
 

Deleted member 13148

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Oct 27, 2017
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The emulator used prevents simultaneous left + right inputs, so everything is possible using an NES controller. As time goes by, working original hardware will only become more rare and more expensive, preventing many players from being able to speedrun these games, so a useable alternative is pretty necessary.

It's funny seeing this thread compared to the recent keyboard & mouse vs controller threads, where everyone was asserting that a controller was vastly superior to a keyboard for platformers.
 
Version 3.0

Version 3.0

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Oct 27, 2017
11,266
I'm not impressed until someone does this on the NES, with the rectangle controller eating into their palm, using that $600,000 copy of the game.


Just kidding, I'm super impressed.
 
Rosebud

Rosebud

Two Pieces
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Apr 16, 2018
43,811
Love to watch these 'perfect' speedruns

Devin said:
It's funny seeing this thread compared to the recent keyboard & mouse vs controller threads, where everyone was asserting that a controller was vastly superior to a keyboard for platformers.
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My first thought watching the video lol
 
Ferrio

Ferrio

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Oct 25, 2017
18,115
Devin said:
It's funny seeing this thread compared to the recent keyboard & mouse vs controller threads, where everyone was asserting that a controller was vastly superior to a keyboard for platformers.
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They aren't wrong, but this game was before analog controllers so keyboard makes sense. Keyboard would be way more precise than an analog stick that didn't even exist at the time.

Again, it comes down to the game.
 
adj_noun

adj_noun

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
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Devin said:
It's funny seeing this thread compared to the recent keyboard & mouse vs controller threads, where everyone was asserting that a controller was vastly superior to a keyboard for platformers.
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I'd assume it generally is if you're not the mutant lovechild of Captain N and Jimmy from the Wizard.
 
NotLiquid

NotLiquid

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Oct 25, 2017
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mere_immortal said:
So what's the last thing someone theoretically has to do to match the TAS time?
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4-2 is the big one as far as I can tell. Even at a cursory glance comparing the TAS to Niftski's run, he seems to fall behind a few frames during the wall clip, which presumably misses a frame rule (playing his run a few milliseconds ahead of the TAS, it catches up to him after that level).

Unsurprisingly it's always 4-2.
 

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Ferrio said:
They aren't wrong, but this game was before analog controllers so keyboard makes sense. Keyboard would be way more precise than an analog stick that didn't even exist at the time.

Again, it comes down to the game.
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Plenty of people were specifically saying it for 2D platformers, which almost always use digital input.

But regardless of input method, this is an incredible achievement, and this will be a very difficult record to beat.
 
Efejota

Efejota

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Mar 13, 2018
3,750
It was an amazing watch, thanks for sharing :)
I still hate those hammer bros at 8-3 personally. Always end up making dumb moves around them and die.
 
Instant Vintage

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...and that's where the record remains to this day.

This is seriously incredible. 30 frames off the TAS? That's damn good right there.
 
Beer Monkey

Beer Monkey

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Oct 30, 2017
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Devin said:
The emulator used prevents simultaneous left + right inputs, so everything is possible using an NES controller. As time goes by, working original hardware will only become more rare and more expensive, preventing many players from being able to speedrun these games, so a useable alternative is pretty necessary.

It's funny seeing this thread compared to the recent keyboard & mouse vs controller threads, where everyone was asserting that a controller was vastly superior to a keyboard for platformers.
Click to expand...
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It doesn't bother me that he used a custom controller, FYI.

Should I plan on being able to retire on my original dogbone controllers and Famicom someday? Since this stuff is going to get unobtanium?
 
EggmaniMN

EggmaniMN

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May 17, 2020
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Ferrio said:
They aren't wrong, but this game was before analog controllers so keyboard makes sense. Keyboard would be way more precise than an analog stick that didn't even exist at the time.

Again, it comes down to the game.
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It would be too precise for a lot of things actually. Something like the Genesis doesn't process controller inputs instantly, a keyboard would be faster than actual hardware. This all just comes down to what the community is comfortable accepting and I guess at least the SMB community is fine with this. I wouldn't expect it to be accepted by too many others.

And as for controller alternatives, the most widely accepted thing is to just replace the guts of the controllers because there are plenty of people making and selling those to spec (or often not up to spec, it's kind of a crapshoot on what you get).
 
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