J.K. Rowling and Her Legacy of Hate: The UK Gender Critical Movement

[Plinkerton]

Just want to chime add my name to the list of people against an OT for Hogwarts, for whatever it's worth. I fail to see what benefit there would be for it - if people insist they want to talk about the game, there's plenty of other places to do it.

The only sort of thread I'd want to see is something similar to this CP77 one that highlighted the issues (in incredible detail and was massively educational for me personally), rather than hyping the game up. Which I guess would just be this thread here; perhaps it could be shared over to gaming side closer to the game's launch?

I see no value in hosting any other discussion about the game.

 

[Kyuuji]

I mean, staff are fine making exceptions when the need validates it. It's been made clear there won't be album threads for Kanye West moving forward. I didn't see any hand-wringing about the health of the forum when that decision was put down (and rightfully so).

 

[Osu 16 Bit]

I mean, staff are fine making exceptions when the need validates it. It's been made clear there won't be album threads for Kanye West moving forward. I didn't see any hand-wringing about the health of the forum when that decision was put down (and rightfully so).

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I think that's a mistake too, although I wasn't aware of the discussion and wouldn't have spoke up if I had been.

 

[astro]

I don't think banning a thread on the game is a good idea. In my opinion it is not healthy, for either the forum or those asking for it. I feel that the staff policy on not allowing discourse on what topics should be banned was the right move and I hope they stick to it.

I will clarify that I have no interest in JK Rowling or the game. However, to me, being so invested and judging towards our fellow posters who are interested in the game doesn't lead to much good, it contributes to the negative and intimidating vibe here where we often pit poster against poster and assume the worst in people. I can't accept a black and white judgment on somebody still loving Harry Potter when I make compromises on my values for the entertainment that means something to me. We all do, but I think (rightfully) this is one a lot of us take personal and I'd rather the staff stick to the ruling instead of make exceptions which again, is probably not healthy for the site.

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It has less to do with judging fellow posters and more to do with making a statement in support of our trans community.

We'll all get over not being able to discuss the game here, it's really a very tiny thing to give up.

 

[Kyuuji]

I think that's a mistake too, although I wasn't aware of the discussion and wouldn't have spoke up if I had been.

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Which is fair. Can't rob you of your right to that opinion, even if I disagree with it. The only thing I'd point out is not conflating judging users with the act. While many will judge people for continuing to purchase Harry Potter products, it doesn't need to be entangled with the suggestion of the forum taking a stance against the IP.

As, for me, this isn't about the game. It's about not giving air to the IP on this forum, which happens to include the game.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

It has less to do with judging fellow posters and more to do with making a statement in support of our trans community.

We'll all get over not being able to discuss the game here, it's really a very tiny thing to give up.

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Exactly. There are hundreds of other games coming out for people to talk about here, and thousands of other websites on the internet where people can talk specifically about Hogwarts Legacy. We lose nothing by choosing not to host hype and discussion on the game.

 

[Yesterzine]

It has less to do with judging fellow posters and more to do with making a statement in support of our trans community.

We'll all get over not being able to discuss the game here, it's really a very tiny thing to give up.

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And the fact that some posters, even here can't even make that tiniest of "sacrifices" tells you exactly WHY everyone who does give quarter of a shit and this site needs to take a stand.

 

[It’s Time To Go]

There's so many places to go to and discuss HL. Why does Era need to signal boost it? Why would not signal boosting it be seen as moral judging of Era posters?

 

[Plinkerton]

We'll all get over not being able to discuss the game here, it's really a very tiny thing to give up.

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This is where I come down too, and why I say I don't really see what value there is in hosting an OT.

I guess its easy for me to say, because I have absolutely no interest in the game regardless, so I'm not really giving anything up. But then I try to think, well, if a game I was excited for (say Zelda for example) was actively causing harm to some members of the community here, would I feel comfortable continuing with discussing it and hyping it up like any other game? Would I even want to talk about Zelda when doing so would cause upset to so many?

I guess the counterargument is "no ethical consumption under capitalism" and if you're banning X, what about Y and Z? Which fair enough, but I have no problem with the staff taking action when enough of the community speaks up; they've done it with Cyberpunk, NFTs and whatever else. Absolutely no issue with them doing it for Harry Potter.

 

[Lozange]

In a world where everything gets coverage, I... honestly still wouldn't want an OT for the game, but I could empathise with that perspective. There's certainly merit to educating about an issue, and an OT would be an opportunity to do that.

But first of all, is an OT the best place for education about JK? Hogwarts legacy is simultaneously at the centre of this discussion, but also nothing to do with it. The game is trying to distance itself from JK - the character creator has been at the centre of a lot of the marketing, JK's name is not front and centre, you can talk about the world's most famous TERF without bringing up the game at all aside from "she will make money from this and funnel it towards anti trans, anti queer, anti feminist causes". Making it about Hogwarts Legacy makes the issue complicated - it shouldn't matter how good or trans positive the game itself is, and yet even in a fake Hogwarts Legacy OT with some trans positive stuff at the beginning, that will be a point of discussion.

But second of all, the fact of the matter is most games (mostly indie, which in turn contains a lot of minority developers) do not get OTs. It's not due to most games being banned, it's normally because most games don't garner enough interest. If a game doesn't get an OT, it doesn't get seen by others, so it doesn't get popular enough that it can get an OT.

It's not necessarily just a matter of "do we have a hogwarts legacy OT, or not", it can also be a question of "what do we promote instead". This is an opportunity for some positivity, to fill the space that's normally taken up by a triple A release.

 

[Rodelero]

I don't think the game should have a traditional OT -- I do think the opportunity should be used to further highlight how despicable JK Rowling is. I also would imagine there will be aspects of the game that people will want to discuss in terms of how it does (or doesn't) deal with LGBT issues, so I'm not sure an outright ban on discussion is wise.

 

[Kyuuji]

I can feel the heated gaze of the staff on this topic as it veers beyond the original discussion. People have presented a variety of points, including Osu 16 Bit 's input on why she thinks an OT should be made. The spectrum of thought on it has been given some space to be updated, which I think is healthy.

Trying to tentatively steer this back toward tracking JK Rowling and the GC movement.


View: https://twitter.com/FionasWriting/status/1609905901732872193

 

[astro]

Read their post wrong, my bad!

 

[It’s Time To Go]

Rowling's mate Suzanne Moore has been at it again this week

 

[TheGummyBear]

I'm so confused what the fuck she was trying to do by raising the plight of women in Iran. How does that connect to anything that she is saying at all?

It's all just throwing anything at the wall and trying to find any talking point that sticks.

 

[Amalthea]

Yeah, what have leftists ever done for womens rights!? /s

 

[astro]

"Vague identity over reality"

This is the kind of language that holds women back. Follow it through and it leads to "You're a woman, you should be at home raising the children" and other gender binary conformist nonsense.

There's literally nothing about self-identification that holds women back, in-fact it only bolsters the idea that gender is just a construct and the one you were assigned at birth should have no sway over who you are.

 

[Kyuuji]

Related tweet on that article.


View: https://twitter.com/nateffo/status/1610191763238518786

 

[TheGummyBear]

Bill Bailey has been hounded off of twitter by "Gender Criticals" because he said it was a shame that Graham Linehan was GC.

 

[Lozange]

Some problems with this:

1. When this has happened before, the majority of posters just ignore any points raised.
2. It doesn't matter how much the devs try to distance ethemselves from JK, it is directly boosting her and her brand.

"Using the OT for good" is noble idea, but when people can just put anyone raising the issue on ignore and continue chating about the game without engaging in the issue, and when so many people on Era actively ignore these topics, the idea falls apart.

Not having the game hosted at all will be far more effective, it's something that no-one can ignore.

Also, the devs are going to be fine. The game is going to sell ridiculously regardless of whether we host an OT or not.

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Gonna keep this short so we can get back on topic, but yes I completely agree with you. Maybe I didn't make myself clear, lol.

---

That Suzanne Moore Article is disgusting. It also really pushes the idea that we as a society only have enough time to think about one societal issue at a time, which is just ????

 

[astro]

Gonna keep this short so we can get back on topic, but yes I completely agree with you. Maybe I didn't make myself clear, lol.

---

That Suzanne Moore Article is disgusting. It also really pushes the idea that we as a society only have enough time to think about one societal issue at a time, which is just ????

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I'm sorry I'm super tired and read your post completely the wrong way (ie: not properly).

Will remove my reply, I agree with you.

 

[Amalthea]

I'm so confused what the fuck she was trying to do by raising the plight of women in Iran. How does that connect to anything that she is saying at all?

It's all just throwing anything at the wall and trying to find any talking point that sticks.

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Who knows, maybe soon we won't just be men, rapists and child molesters but also Iranian ayatollahs too.

 

[Yesterzine]

This is the kind of language that holds women back. Follow it through and it leads to "You're a woman, you should be at home raising the children" and other gender binary conformist nonsense.

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To be fair, this is literally what they think. A reminder multiple GCs have praised the taliban for "Knowing what a woman is".

 

[Guppeth]

Bill Bailey has been hounded off of twitter by "Gender Criticals" because he said it was a shame that Graham Linehan was GC.

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I think Bailey just disabled his account for a few hours. Probably getting spammed by notifications.

It's hard to gauge how much influence Linehan has now. He has hundreds of thousands of followers, but they're from before he was banned and therefore there are loads of dormant accounts and dead bots. His recent tweets get almost no engagement except from people ripping the piss out of him, and he loses hundreds of followers every day.

 

[hjort]

Bill Bailey has been hounded off of twitter by "Gender Criticals" because he said it was a shame that Graham Linehan was GC.

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Does Linehan claim that Bill Bailey has agreed to sign his Rowling petition? Yeah, I'm gonna have to express my doubtiest doubtiness about that.

 

[Guppeth]

Does Linehan claim that Bill Bailey has agreed to sign his Rowling petition? Yeah, I'm gonna have to express my doubtiest doubtiness about that.

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Not gonna link his tweets here, but he said "hopefully" Bill would sign it. I doubt they actually spoke - most likely Bill saw whose number it was and let it go to voicemail.

 

[hjort]

Not gonna link his tweets here, but he said "hopefully" Bill would sign it. I doubt they actually spoke - most likely Bill saw whose number it was and let it go to voicemail.

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Ah, I misread that. Thanks for clearing that up!

 

[Edmond Dantès]

Add me to the list of people who people who think that there should be no OT for the Hogwarts game.

If the admins and mods decide that there must be one, then make the opening post a simple link to Kyuuji's opening post for this thread and then lock it and sticky it.

 

[Cenauru]

It's hard to gauge how much influence Linehan has now. He has hundreds of thousands of followers, but they're from before he was banned and therefore there are loads of dormant accounts and dead bots. His recent tweets get almost no engagement except from people ripping the piss out of him, and he loses hundreds of followers every day.

Click to shrink...

Mumsnet also hates him from acting as god's gift to women. Nothing like a cis guy telling women that they're wrong about women's issues and that he's their ringleader. Transphobia is literally his only relevancy keeping him from being dumpstered any more than he already has because the big-name GC's and TERFs don't give a rat's ass about women's rights.

 

[Deleted member 25606]

And the fact that some posters, even here can't even make that tiniest of "sacrifices" tells you exactly WHY everyone who does give quarter of a shit and this site needs to take a stand.

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It has less to do with judging fellow posters and more to do with making a statement in support of our trans community.

We'll all get over not being able to discuss the game here, it's really a very tiny thing to give up.

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I kind of hope you both realize that Osu 16-Bit is Trans and while I don't agree with her she has the right to that opinion we are not a monolith, and it's not a super great look to support trans people by speaking over one.

 

[astro]

I kind of hope you both realize that Osu 16-Bit is Trans and while I don't agree with her she has the right to that opinion we are not a monolith, and it's not a super great look to support trans people by speaking over one.

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I didn't know that, but I'm also non-binary so my opinion is just as valid here. While I don't specifcially identify as trans, the TERF and GC rethoric affects me too and I've had countless hate and bile directed at me over the last 5 years including from people who used to be my friends.

I disagree with her, respectfully.

 

[Platy]

To ERA Staff.

The only acceptable OT for the game on Era is a locked pinned thread stating that discussion of the game is banned, and a link to the OP of this thread.

You have a chance to make a serious statement here. Do the right thing.

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naaah, i like the OT full of links and texts on why supporting this game is bad just to discuss stuff like how this game can be found on bargain bins and to ban lots of people for not reading the op

 

[Razmos]

I'll just say it: after how badly this site handled the cyberpunk fiasco and courted transphobes the only acceptable response is to not allow an OT for a game that would support a very obvious transphobe that has a clear and direct impact on the lives of trans people.

The fact that this is still even being debated or "talks are still happening" is frankly a joke when they have years to prepare. Make a fucking statement.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

I'll just say it: after how badly this site handled the cyberpunk fiasco and courted transphobes the only acceptable response is to not allow an OT for a game that would support a very obvious transphobe that has a clear and direct impact on the lives of trans people.

The fact that this is still even being debated or "talks are still happening" is frankly a joke when they have years to prepare. Make a fucking statement.

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I feel like the reality of the situation is that the game already isn't being platformed as it is. There's no real need to make a statement now when they'll just have to re-make the statement again when the game is closer to actually coming out.

 

[OrangeNova]

Add me to the list of people who people who think that there should be no OT for the Hogwarts game.

If the admins and mods decide that there must be one, then make the opening post a simple link to Kyuuji's opening post for this thread and then lock it and sticky it.

Click to shrink...

Put the entirety of Kyuuji's opening post at the top of the page, not a link, and have it at the top of every page.

If it's deemed that we will have a thread, but I sure as hell hope we don't.

 

[DryCreek]

.

 

[Kyuuji]

If you want to actually ban the game on era then I suggest asking in the community discussion thread. However it seems thee staffs recent stance has been not to ban topics, as the cyberpunk situation just resulted in an absolute shitshow.

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👇

I mean, staff are fine making exceptions when the need validates it. It's been made clear there won't be album threads for Kanye West moving forward. I didn't see any hand-wringing about the health of the forum when that decision was put down (and rightfully so).

Click to shrink...

The staff are already discussing it regardless, so there's no need to raise it.

 

[PlanetSmasher]

If you want to actually ban the game on era then I suggest asking in the community discussion thread. However it seems thee staffs recent stance has been not to ban topics, as the cyberpunk situation just resulted in an absolute shitshow.

Click to shrink...

It's also important to note that the Cyberpunk thing was an extremely complicated scenario that was exacerbated by members feigning support for trans rights in order to manipulate the staff into letting them hold a hype thread which they then intended to turn into an OT. I don't think the staff is going to let the same situation happen again.

The staff does not allow Hogwarts hype threads at all, the game is basically already quarantined and has been for a long time. I don't see a reason to assume they're gonna go back on that now, after all this time. The understanding has already been cleanly set that Era is not a place to discuss HL.

 

[OrangeNova]

If you want to actually ban the game on era then I suggest asking in the community discussion thread. However it seems thee staffs recent stance has been not to ban topics, as the cyberpunk situation just resulted in an absolute shitshow.

Click to shrink...

Asking to ban discussion of the game in the community discussion thread will get you a threadban in that thread. Don't do that.

 

[It’s Time To Go]

Asking to ban discussion of the game in the community discussion thread will get you a threadban in that thread. Don't do that.

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It sure will, as I found out to my detriment.

 

[DryCreek]

.

 

[Deleted member 25606]

I didn't know that, but I'm also non-binary so my opinion is just as valid here. While I don't specifcially identify as trans, the TERF and GC rethoric affects me too and I've had countless hate and bile directed at me over the last 5 years including from people who used to be my friends.

I disagree with her, respectfully.

Click to shrink...

Wasn't trying to jump down throats just wanted to point it out, and yea I know your non-binary and have a seat at the table, in fact it was more the person that quoted you (and again don't know their status and wasn't blanket accusing just wanted to point out there is a difference when coming from a trans person in this conversation as you will know) but it was just easier to quote you both than just them and then write out their posts relation to yours and Osu's.

 

[astro]

Wasn't trying to jump down throats just wanted to point it out, and yea I know your non-binary and have a seat at the table, in fact it was more the person that quoted you (and again don't know their status and wasn't blanket accusing just wanted to point out there is a difference when coming from a trans person in this conversation as you will know) but it was just easier to quote you both than just them and then write out their posts relation to yours and Osu's.

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In hindsight I would have responded differently had I known Osu 16-Bit is trans (maybe not at all), so I'm glad you pointed that out (and re-reading her post it was probably clear when she mentioned it was personal, so that's on me). I definitely don't want to dismiss/talk over anyone else here and there's no need to argue with each other about this. I respect that some folk feel differently.

 

[Deleted member 25606]

In hindsight I would have responded differently had I known Osu 16-Bit is trans (maybe not at all), so I'm glad you pointed that out (and re-reading her post it was probably clear when she mentioned it was personal, so that's on me). I definitely don't want to dismiss/talk over anyone else here and there's no need to argue with each other about this. I respect that some folk feel differently.

Click to shrink...

I know, and again wasn't trying to butt heads with you, and I disagree with that opinion also, just as you know coming from a member of the community it's different from without. But again you did nothing wrong really and I wasn't trying to put you blast just thought it should be pointed out as a valid voice, which again also had less to do with you and more someone quoting you and implying that Osu was choosing HP over the trans community which even with the opinion of thinking it should be allowed for discussion wasn't what she was doing at all.

 

[Cenauru]

I honestly fail to see the Cyberpunk 2077 OT as a successful example of how HP should be handled, to me it's merely a compromise, one that I've conceded to putting any more energy into since it happened because the worst of it is over and out of mind. I can absolutely say if I see an HP OT in the same vein as CP2077 though, I'm gonna see it with scorn. A mere prompt that will be ignored like an EULA prompt before playing an online game, that's how people see JKR's transphobia and conquest to have us exterminated. And I'm hopefully believing that the mods and admins making the decisions understand why people like me feel this way and understand where we're coming from, and the concerns based on how the leadup to CP2077 went.

I'm just gonna leave it at that for now since I don't want to push this thread too far away from its intended purpose.

 

[Razmos]

View: https://twitter.com/LilySimpson1312/status/1610742229227933701?t=taY476DQiMA6R3GWnLmbmQ&s=19
Christ.

 

[Fj0823]

View: https://twitter.com/LilySimpson1312/status/1610742229227933701?t=taY476DQiMA6R3GWnLmbmQ&s=19
Christ.

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Oh wow, somehow they managed to outdo loss.

I'm in awe at how shit this is.

 

[Razmos]

This in the replies is a banger though:

View: https://twitter.com/Bokra/status/1610902561636364288?t=EAN9Zx2GNGgB9xf7DHbYIA&s=19
He also posted this:

View: https://twitter.com/The_Terroirist/status/1610776142666932226?t=idDPblnbSQ75s_XFXYxHzw&s=19
But it's like maybe look into it before you make a comic about it lol

 

[TheGummyBear]

Must... resist... posting... Hbomber video...

The guy has always been a self centered narcissist with questionable views of women.

 

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