Uzzy

Gabe’s little helper
Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,547
Hull, UK
Saw this in the papers today.


View: https://twitter.com/TmorrowsPapers/status/1615481738884517890

Firstly, I'm impressed that a ban on conversion therapy has now become 'trans law'. I mean, wooooow.

Secondly, this is clearly Kemi Badenoch (or an ally) briefing this shit out and she absolutely hates us. Unfortunately, she's in an incredibly safe seat and would be a leading candidate for the next Tory leadership election, so I can easily picture her as leader soon and ramping up the culture war and hate against us, maybe even rolling back existing legislation.
 
OP
OP
Kyuuji

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,982
Saw this in the papers today.


View: https://twitter.com/TmorrowsPapers/status/1615481738884517890

Firstly, I'm impressed that a ban on conversion therapy has now become 'trans law'. I mean, wooooow.

Secondly, this is clearly Kemi Badenoch (or an ally) briefing this shit out and she absolutely hates us. Unfortunately, she's in an incredibly safe seat and would be a leading candidate for the next Tory leadership election, so I can easily picture her as leader soon and ramping up the culture war and hate against us, maybe even rolling back existing legislation.

She's awful, and seems actively intent on going after us while she's in a position to. Goes back to her choosing to intervene on the FCA's proposed pro-trans update as well. It's concerning to say the least.
 

JohnPaulv2.0

Member
Dec 3, 2017
584
Honest what is the actual best outcome now? It feels so hopeless here
My guess is the best realistic outcome for the short-term is if the Tory's play the Culture War card hard at the next GE and lose then they may refocus on new wedge issue for a while. The problem is that even if the politicians lose interest, the media has hit an engagement goldmine with the "gender debate". So, bigots will continue to get platformed and the "trans question" will find its way back into the national discourse. So, unless the nation's people experience a sudden revelation of empathy I think, like any other civil rights issue, the progress will be slow. But with effort and conversation and positive representation it could be better in a decade or so.
 

Uzzy

Gabe’s little helper
Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,547
Hull, UK


Just for clarity, that is an incredible mischaracterisation of that vote, deliberately so in fact. The vote was to end a debate on the order, not to trigger the order being made, which was entirely at the discretion of the secretary of state. The only outcome of that vote being 'won' would be that debate continued for a few more hours.

I do think they should have voted no anyway, symbols matter. But there's no actual impact in law or legislation based on it.
 

Amalthea

Member
Dec 22, 2017
5,768
Scotish independence followed by others

and then people notice how silly it is for england to hold the grip so hard on transphobia to the point of destroing the united kingdom and transphobia is finally treated as the stupid thing it is
The British Empire has destroyed so many non-binary gender systems all over the world that it deserves to lose its last remaining power over it.
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,652
Just for clarity, that is an incredible mischaracterisation of that vote, deliberately so in fact. The vote was to end a debate on the order, not to trigger the order being made, which was entirely at the discretion of the secretary of state. The only outcome of that vote being 'won' would be that debate continued for a few more hours.

I do think they should have voted no anyway, symbols matter. But there's no actual impact in law or legislation based on it.

Starmer all but endorses the move so this is reflective of that.
 

Uzzy

Gabe’s little helper
Member
Oct 25, 2017
28,547
Hull, UK
Starmer all but endorses the move so this is reflective of that.

I'm not sure that incredibly misrepresenting what the vote that took place yesterday actually meant is reflective of anything but StatsForLefties hatred of Starmer to be honest. And it's not like there isn't lots to criticise Starmer over on this matter, his attacks on Gillick Competence are profoundly wrong and upsetting. However, I will point out that during yesterday's debate Labour shadow ministers recommitted to reform of the GRA, including removing the requirement for a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

Now will that make it into a manifesto and actually be done? I don't know, but frankly I choose to be hopeful, because the brutal alternative is living under Kemi Badenoch's rule on these matters.
 

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
86,248
Houston, TX
I had to unfollow one of my favorite Black content creators for him going to play Hogwarts Legacy.

EDIT: I spoke to him about it, he cleared things up a bit.
 
Last edited:

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,652
I'm not sure that incredibly misrepresenting what the vote that took place yesterday actually meant is reflective of anything but StatsForLefties hatred of Starmer to be honest. And it's not like there isn't lots to criticise Starmer over on this matter, his attacks on Gillick Competence are profoundly wrong and upsetting. However, I will point out that during yesterday's debate Labour shadow ministers recommitted to reform of the GRA, including removing the requirement for a medical diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

Now will that make it into a manifesto and actually be done? I don't know, but frankly I choose to be hopeful, because the brutal alternative is living under Kemi Badenoch's rule on these matters.

He's actively been expressing concerns about the Scotland bill and this is an unprecedented move by the Tories that ought to be strongly rebuked on principle alone beyond just the anti-Trans nature but he seems unmoved
 

TheGummyBear

Member
Jan 6, 2018
9,061
United Kingdom
My guess is the best realistic outcome for the short-term is if the Tory's play the Culture War card hard at the next GE and lose then they may refocus on new wedge issue for a while. The problem is that even if the politicians lose interest, the media has hit an engagement goldmine with the "gender debate". So, bigots will continue to get platformed and the "trans question" will find its way back into the national discourse. So, unless the nation's people experience a sudden revelation of empathy I think, like any other civil rights issue, the progress will be slow. But with effort and conversation and positive representation it could be better in a decade or so.

Ultimately I think this is the realistic view I have to take. It's not a nice future to look forward to, but it's far better than doompilling myself about how futile things are going to be for the trans community in the UK.

When both major political parties make a point of not aligning with the trans community, societal progress is inevitably going to be slow. Especially with a right wing media that has latched onto gender rights as their new wedge issue. And even if the vast majority of the country were to embrace trans rights overnight, there would still be loud mouths with a platform punching down long after equality was secured. Just look at how The Torygraph was recently peddling homophobic shite about how the traditional nuclear family was the only healthy way to raise children.

But just like the battle against homophobia, I think slow progress will be made. Step by step. Especially if culture war politics results in terrible results for the tories at the next GE.
 

nintendoman58

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,136
I had to unfollow one of my favorite Black content creators for him going to play Hogwarts Legacy.

EDIT: I spoke to him about it, he cleared things up a bit.

There are going to be a LOT of content creators that generally don't have any problematic histories that are going to be playing this game, unfortunately.

And honestly, this is something that kind-of concerns me as well.

I apologize for the lengthy post, but this particular question has been on my mind for a long time now and I feel the need to bring this up.

Is: "This person played Hogwarts Legacy." Going to be the new: "This person follows problematic people on Twitter?"

I am not touching Hogwarts Legacy with a ten-foot pole. I don't think other people should be buying Hogwarts Legacy. But something people should understand is that I only have this position because I've been made aware of the extensive amount of damage that JKR has done. In fact, had it not been for trans people on ERA, I would probably have only gotten the occasional blurb about it here and there might have ended up ignoring it entirely, not knowing the full truth about the situation.

It is very possible that other content creators, along with many other people in general, will not have the same amount of knowledge people here have about JKR. Content creators that have particularly large audiences receive tons of messages from people every day, so who knows what mixed messages they're getting. Who knows what news sources they keep up with and what information they're getting? Aside from being able to see who they follow and what they retweet on Twitter, we can barely tell. We are not those people and we don't live the same lives that they do.

So what's the solution?

You could argue that a mass-unfollow campaign would get them to take notice of the situation…but I think that will do more harm than good. A campaign like that would bring about needless hostility and have other negative consequences. They might find themselves seeing how other people are reacting and use the same: "Supporting the devs" excuse, because it's a very popular thing for people to say in their defense, no matter how weak it may be. Worst-case scenario, it could get some content-creators to get harassed to the point that the actual message that needs to be sent would get lost. Even worse than that, it could cause people on the GC-side of things to bring them over to their side with their propaganda, turning who could've been a potential ally into an enemy.

Now you could also argue: "Well, if they were brought in by their propaganda then they could never have been an ally in the first place." To which I have to say, don't underestimate what propaganda can do to people. Ordinary, good-natured people can very easily be taken in by the lies and flattery by others. Especially when they feel attacked.

My suggestion? Well, to do what you did in your edit, basically.

If a content creator you enjoy is going to be playing Hogwarts Legacy, send them an email, talk to them on Twitter, get in contact with them in any way. Be as thorough as you can in talking about how severe the damage that JKR has done. Give them sources. Speak in as good faith as you possibly can. If you still feel uncomfortable and wish to unfollow them, that's on you and you alone and I certainly won't judge you for that. But I do ask that, if you really enjoyed that person's content, and if they hadn't shown ay really red flags until then, make a conceited effort to make them aware, first.

Hogwarts Legacy is sadly going to be a popular game. We're not talking like, popular indie game level on Steam here. This is potentially going to be a mainstream mega-hit, and there is no way content-creators from all over aren't going to take advantage of that. Whether they like Harry Potter, or want to play a popular game for views on Twitch. With tensions running high and especially with all the transphobia in the UK running rampant right now, I can't imagine how people in this thread must be feeling, being constantly under attack like that every single day. I understand how angry the Wizarding World as a brand must make you, knowing JKR uses it to give legitimacy to her arguments and stand at the forefront of a full-on hate movement.

Situations like this though, need to be handled as delicately as possible. My hope, is that people will think and talk to content creators carefully about what JKR is doing. My fear, is that some people will use Hogwarts Legacy as a reactionary means of lashing out and trying to launch attacks on people.

I would like to believe that fear is unfounded.


This was all a huge mistake and I apologize. Good on Neoxon for doing what you did.
 
Last edited:

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
86,248
Houston, TX
There are going to be a LOT of content creators that generally don't have any problematic histories that are going to be playing this game, unfortunately.

And honestly, this is something that kind-of concerns me as well.

I apologize for the lengthy post, but this particular question has been on my mind for a long time now and I feel the need to bring this up.

Is: "This person played Hogwarts Legacy." Going to be the new: "This person follows problematic people on Twitter?"

I am not touching Hogwarts Legacy with a ten-foot pole. I don't think other people should be buying Hogwarts Legacy. But something people should understand is that I only have this position because I've been made aware of the extensive amount of damage that JKR has done. In fact, had it not been for trans people on ERA, I would probably have only gotten the occasional blurb about it here and there might have ended up ignoring it entirely, not knowing the full truth about the situation.

It is very possible that other content creators, along with many other people in general, will not have the same amount of knowledge people here have about JKR. Content creators that have particularly large audiences receive tons of messages from people every day, so who knows what mixed messages they're getting. Who knows what news sources they keep up with and what information they're getting? Aside from being able to see who they follow and what they retweet on Twitter, we can barely tell. We are not those people and we don't live the same lives that they do.

So what's the solution?

You could argue that a mass-unfollow campaign would get them to take notice of the situation…but I think that will do more harm than good. A campaign like that would bring about needless hostility and have other negative consequences. They might find themselves seeing how other people are reacting and use the same: "Supporting the devs" excuse, because it's a very popular thing for people to say in their defense, no matter how weak it may be. Worst-case scenario, it could get some content-creators to get harassed to the point that the actual message that needs to be sent would get lost. Even worse than that, it could cause people on the GC-side of things to bring them over to their side with their propaganda, turning who could've been a potential ally into an enemy.

Now you could also argue: "Well, if they were brought in by their propaganda then they could never have been an ally in the first place." To which I have to say, don't underestimate what propaganda can do to people. Ordinary, good-natured people can very easily be taken in by the lies and flattery by others. Especially when they feel attacked.

My suggestion? Well, to do what you did in your edit, basically.

If a content creator you enjoy is going to be playing Hogwarts Legacy, send them an email, talk to them on Twitter, get in contact with them in any way. Be as thorough as you can in talking about how severe the damage that JKR has done. Give them sources. Speak in as good faith as you possibly can. If you still feel uncomfortable and wish to unfollow them, that's on you and you alone and I certainly won't judge you for that. But I do ask that, if you really enjoyed that person's content, and if they hadn't shown ay really red flags until then, make a conceited effort to make them aware, first.

Hogwarts Legacy is sadly going to be a popular game. We're not talking like, popular indie game level on Steam here. This is potentially going to be a mainstream mega-hit, and there is no way content-creators from all over aren't going to take advantage of that. Whether they like Harry Potter, or want to play a popular game for views on Twitch. With tensions running high and especially with all the transphobia in the UK running rampant right now, I can't imagine how people in this thread must be feeling, being constantly under attack like that every single day. I understand how angry the Wizarding World as a brand must make you, knowing JKR uses it to give legitimacy to her arguments and stand at the forefront of a full-on hate movement.

Situations like this though, need to be handled as delicately as possible. My hope, is that people will think and talk to content creators carefully about what JKR is doing. My fear, is that some people will use Hogwarts Legacy as a reactionary means of lashing out and trying to launch attacks on people.

I would like to believe that fear is unfounded.
Yeah, I tried to handle it as best I could. And considering how he doesn't tolerate things like racism or homophobia, the conversation went pretty well.
 
OP
OP
Kyuuji

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,982
Is: "This person played Hogwarts Legacy." Going to be the new: "This person follows problematic people on Twitter?"
My fear, is that some people will use Hogwarts Legacy as a reactionary means of lashing out and trying to launch attacks on people.
My guy you have been on this angle for years since Cyberpunk across a whole load of posts. At some point it comes across as concern trolling when you dedicate so much time to wringing your hands over some people catching a little heat. It's practically your calling card at this point.
 

Septimus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,625
Yeah I implore anyone in the US that unfortunately just has to play this game, please hit up GameFly or something so she doesn't see a damn cent.
 

nintendoman58

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,136
My guy you have been on this angle for years since Cyberpunk across a whole load of posts and at some point it comes across as concern trolling when you dedicate so much time to wringing your hands over some people catching a little heat. It's practically your calling card at this point.

I geniuenly apologize if I came across as concern trolling.

Believe me, trolling regarding this issue is the last thing I want to be doing.

I'm not trying to tell anyone how to feel towards others. I only want to encourage how people act towards others depending on the circumstances because I've seen first-hand how these kinds of situations can spiral out of control very fast.
 

Vonocourt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,678
There are going to be a LOT of content creators that generally don't have any problematic histories that are going to be playing this game, unfortunately.

And honestly, this is something that kind-of concerns me as well.

I apologize for the lengthy post, but this particular question has been on my mind for a long time now and I feel the need to bring this up.

Is: "This person played Hogwarts Legacy." Going to be the new: "This person follows problematic people on Twitter?"

I am not touching Hogwarts Legacy with a ten-foot pole. I don't think other people should be buying Hogwarts Legacy. But something people should understand is that I only have this position because I've been made aware of the extensive amount of damage that JKR has done. In fact, had it not been for trans people on ERA, I would probably have only gotten the occasional blurb about it here and there might have ended up ignoring it entirely, not knowing the full truth about the situation.

It is very possible that other content creators, along with many other people in general, will not have the same amount of knowledge people here have about JKR. Content creators that have particularly large audiences receive tons of messages from people every day, so who knows what mixed messages they're getting. Who knows what news sources they keep up with and what information they're getting? Aside from being able to see who they follow and what they retweet on Twitter, we can barely tell. We are not those people and we don't live the same lives that they do.

So what's the solution?

You could argue that a mass-unfollow campaign would get them to take notice of the situation…but I think that will do more harm than good. A campaign like that would bring about needless hostility and have other negative consequences. They might find themselves seeing how other people are reacting and use the same: "Supporting the devs" excuse, because it's a very popular thing for people to say in their defense, no matter how weak it may be. Worst-case scenario, it could get some content-creators to get harassed to the point that the actual message that needs to be sent would get lost. Even worse than that, it could cause people on the GC-side of things to bring them over to their side with their propaganda, turning who could've been a potential ally into an enemy.

Now you could also argue: "Well, if they were brought in by their propaganda then they could never have been an ally in the first place." To which I have to say, don't underestimate what propaganda can do to people. Ordinary, good-natured people can very easily be taken in by the lies and flattery by others. Especially when they feel attacked.

My suggestion? Well, to do what you did in your edit, basically.

If a content creator you enjoy is going to be playing Hogwarts Legacy, send them an email, talk to them on Twitter, get in contact with them in any way. Be as thorough as you can in talking about how severe the damage that JKR has done. Give them sources. Speak in as good faith as you possibly can. If you still feel uncomfortable and wish to unfollow them, that's on you and you alone and I certainly won't judge you for that. But I do ask that, if you really enjoyed that person's content, and if they hadn't shown ay really red flags until then, make a conceited effort to make them aware, first.

Hogwarts Legacy is sadly going to be a popular game. We're not talking like, popular indie game level on Steam here. This is potentially going to be a mainstream mega-hit, and there is no way content-creators from all over aren't going to take advantage of that. Whether they like Harry Potter, or want to play a popular game for views on Twitch. With tensions running high and especially with all the transphobia in the UK running rampant right now, I can't imagine how people in this thread must be feeling, being constantly under attack like that every single day. I understand how angry the Wizarding World as a brand must make you, knowing JKR uses it to give legitimacy to her arguments and stand at the forefront of a full-on hate movement.

Situations like this though, need to be handled as delicately as possible. My hope, is that people will think and talk to content creators carefully about what JKR is doing. My fear, is that some people will use Hogwarts Legacy as a reactionary means of lashing out and trying to launch attacks on people.

I would like to believe that fear is unfounded.
This is so tiring.
 

Vonocourt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,678
My guy you have been on this angle for years since Cyberpunk across a whole load of posts. At some point it comes across as concern trolling when you dedicate so much time to wringing your hands over some people catching a little heat. It's practically your calling card at this point.
Yeah trans folk, civility politics. You heard of them?
 

OrangeNova

Member
Oct 30, 2017
12,870
Canada
There are going to be a LOT of content creators that generally don't have any problematic histories that are going to be playing this game, unfortunately.

And honestly, this is something that kind-of concerns me as well.

I apologize for the lengthy post, but this particular question has been on my mind for a long time now and I feel the need to bring this up.

Is: "This person played Hogwarts Legacy." Going to be the new: "This person follows problematic people on Twitter?"

I am not touching Hogwarts Legacy with a ten-foot pole. I don't think other people should be buying Hogwarts Legacy. But something people should understand is that I only have this position because I've been made aware of the extensive amount of damage that JKR has done. In fact, had it not been for trans people on ERA, I would probably have only gotten the occasional blurb about it here and there might have ended up ignoring it entirely, not knowing the full truth about the situation.

It is very possible that other content creators, along with many other people in general, will not have the same amount of knowledge people here have about JKR. Content creators that have particularly large audiences receive tons of messages from people every day, so who knows what mixed messages they're getting. Who knows what news sources they keep up with and what information they're getting? Aside from being able to see who they follow and what they retweet on Twitter, we can barely tell. We are not those people and we don't live the same lives that they do.

So what's the solution?

You could argue that a mass-unfollow campaign would get them to take notice of the situation…but I think that will do more harm than good. A campaign like that would bring about needless hostility and have other negative consequences. They might find themselves seeing how other people are reacting and use the same: "Supporting the devs" excuse, because it's a very popular thing for people to say in their defense, no matter how weak it may be. Worst-case scenario, it could get some content-creators to get harassed to the point that the actual message that needs to be sent would get lost. Even worse than that, it could cause people on the GC-side of things to bring them over to their side with their propaganda, turning who could've been a potential ally into an enemy.

Now you could also argue: "Well, if they were brought in by their propaganda then they could never have been an ally in the first place." To which I have to say, don't underestimate what propaganda can do to people. Ordinary, good-natured people can very easily be taken in by the lies and flattery by others. Especially when they feel attacked.

My suggestion? Well, to do what you did in your edit, basically.

If a content creator you enjoy is going to be playing Hogwarts Legacy, send them an email, talk to them on Twitter, get in contact with them in any way. Be as thorough as you can in talking about how severe the damage that JKR has done. Give them sources. Speak in as good faith as you possibly can. If you still feel uncomfortable and wish to unfollow them, that's on you and you alone and I certainly won't judge you for that. But I do ask that, if you really enjoyed that person's content, and if they hadn't shown ay really red flags until then, make a conceited effort to make them aware, first.

Hogwarts Legacy is sadly going to be a popular game. We're not talking like, popular indie game level on Steam here. This is potentially going to be a mainstream mega-hit, and there is no way content-creators from all over aren't going to take advantage of that. Whether they like Harry Potter, or want to play a popular game for views on Twitch. With tensions running high and especially with all the transphobia in the UK running rampant right now, I can't imagine how people in this thread must be feeling, being constantly under attack like that every single day. I understand how angry the Wizarding World as a brand must make you, knowing JKR uses it to give legitimacy to her arguments and stand at the forefront of a full-on hate movement.

Situations like this though, need to be handled as delicately as possible. My hope, is that people will think and talk to content creators carefully about what JKR is doing. My fear, is that some people will use Hogwarts Legacy as a reactionary means of lashing out and trying to launch attacks on people.

I would like to believe that fear is unfounded.
I have 0 problem unfollowing any content creator that plays it. There are more than enough content creators out there for me to follow that won't.
 
OP
OP
Kyuuji

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,982
I geniuenly apologize if I came across as concern trolling.

Believe me, trolling regarding this issue is the last thing I want to be doing.
Then spend less time constantly recycling the same hand wringing take about how some people might think of others off the back of their engagement with things. It's boring and your pearls are dust at this point. I've bit my tongue on it most of the time but when you're in here writing a multi-paragraph long post to get to the point of a ""worry"" about people using legitimate disdain for Hogwarts Legacy to attack people, just stop.
 

Vonocourt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,678
nintendoman58
Whether they like Harry Potter, or want to play a popular game for views on Twitch. With tensions running high and especially with all the transphobia in the UK running rampant right now, I can't imagine how people in this thread must be feeling, being constantly under attack like that every single day. I understand how angry the Wizarding World as a brand must make you, knowing JKR uses it to give legitimacy to her arguments and stand at the forefront of a full-on hate movement.

Situations like this though, need to be handled as delicately as possible. My hope, is that people will think and talk to content creators carefully about what JKR is doing. My fear, is that some people will use Hogwarts Legacy as a reactionary means of lashing out and trying to launch attacks on people.
Oh, like what you explicitly are not doing.
 

Mifec

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,949
Love you all won't offer platitudes other than this because you've hear it a million times. I will laugh at every cis person here coming to ask for permission, if you wanna play stfu and play it no one here needs to know or probably wants to know and they deffo won't "absolve you" or tell you whatever you wasn't to hear, just try to have a little respect and empathy for the people here. Some of the posts have been wild-

Yeah, I tried to handle it as best I could. And considering how he doesn't tolerate things like racism or homophobia, the conversation went pretty well.
What did they decide on if you don't mind me asking?
 
Dec 2, 2017
20,776
'Please give me and anyone I follow permission to enjoy my stupid Harry Potter game cos I don't want to admit my video game is worth more to me than your existence and happiness. And it's up to you to educate people on why it's bad.'
 

nintendoman58

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,136
What about Kyuuji. How do you think she feels about your preaching of respectability politics?

I was not trying to preach respectability politics.

The point of my post was that I want people should be doing what Neoxon did in handling these situations. I.e., talking to content creators about the subject so that they can be more informed of the situation.

'Please give me and anyone I follow permission to enjoy my stupid Harry Potter game cos I don't want to admit my video game is worth more to me than your existence and happiness. And it's up to you to educate people on why it's bad.'

I did not say this. At all.

I explicitly said that I'm not touching HL and that nobody else should be playing it, either.
 

Vonocourt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,678
I was not trying to preach respectability politics.

The point of my post was that I want people should be doing what Neoxon did in handling these situations. I.e., talking to content creators about the subject so that they can be more informed of the situation.
Okay, I'm a content creator in this thread. I do not think you, a content creator, help provide a constructive atmosphere with your reductive and sanctimonious air in this thread that has the intention of being an inclusive space.

You are literally ignoring the thread creator to continue this.
 

nintendoman58

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,136
Okay, I'm a content creator in this thread. I do not think you, a content creator, help provide a constructive atmosphere with your reductive and sanctimonious air in this thread that has the intention of being an inclusive space.

You are literally ignoring the thread creator to continue this.

I understand.

All I wanted to do was encourage Nexon's way of handling things.

I explicitly did not:
-Tell other trans people how they should feel.
-Try to justify anyone buying Hogwarts Legacy
-Try to dismiss the severity of what JKR has done.

I had no intention of coming off as preachy, but given how long my post turned out, that was probably not going to work out in hindsight, and I probably shouldn't have said anything at all. And for that, I apologize.
 
OP
OP
Kyuuji

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,982
If you're confused about the flash fire of heat that just got sent out just keep it in check that this thread is about the damage Rowling has caused to trans people in the UK and abroad. That we're a day out from aspects of that helping to fuel the UK Gov in their decision to block the only forward progress we've had recently, and we're only a few pages removed from the focus being on giving out OK's to people engaging with her IP. So coming in with a paragraphs long post just to dance around a point of being worried people will attack others for liking Hogwarts Legacy is going to draw some ire. People are tired. The bandwidth for bullshit tolerance is thin.

So, please, keep it in your head if you're reading this and planning to hop into the thread to catch bullets for a game or wring your hands over how some people might judge you for engaging with it.
 
Last edited:
Oct 26, 2017
19,997
My suggestion? Well, to do what you did in your edit, basically.

If a content creator you enjoy is going to be playing Hogwarts Legacy, send them an email, talk to them on Twitter, get in contact with them in any way. Be as thorough as you can in talking about how severe the damage that JKR has done. Give them sources. Speak in as good faith as you possibly can. If you still feel uncomfortable and wish to unfollow them, that's on you and you alone and I certainly won't judge you for that. But I do ask that, if you really enjoyed that person's content, and if they hadn't shown ay really red flags until then, make a conceited effort to make them aware, first.

...

Situations like this though, need to be handled as delicately as possible. My hope, is that people will think and talk to content creators carefully about what JKR is doing. My fear, is that some people will use Hogwarts Legacy as a reactionary means of lashing out and trying to launch attacks on people.
What concerns me is that your phrasing here sounds like we---people upset by and/or directly hurt by JKR, and not the content creators themselves----need to be delicate in how we handle this situation. Should we immediately rip a content creator's head off, berate them, call them a piece of shit? No, probably not. Do I need to be told to be delicate about it though? My first reaction is, "what the fuck?" The focus in your statement is not where it needs to be. And while I am always a fan of education where and when able; I'm a cis white man. I should be ready and willing to challenge people on their transphobia, homophobia, racism, sexism, so on and so on. I'm not putting the onus on anyone LGBTQ+ to be anyone else's teacher.

All in all, I think you used way, way too many words to say what should have just been, "Hey, that was a good move reaching out to said content creator." Everything else was sanctimonious as Vonocourt put it.
 

Vonocourt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,678
Like the telling trans people they should try to meet the road on accepting their existence. They do that every day,

You motherfuckers have to work on your fucking talk. You literally lose nothing from it, for us trans folks it's our life if we fail.
 

Osu 16 Bit

QA Lead at NetherRealm Studios
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,947
Chicago, IL
I'm leaning towards changing my mind and wanting this game's discussion banned because this hand wringing and asking for permission stuff is so unbearable. It's actually WORSE than just playing and talking about it. Like just accept you're a flawed person who compromises on morality for your entertainment. I'm a hypocrite at times too. Own it. This discourse is just infuriating.
 

nintendoman58

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,136
If you're confused about the flash fire of heat that just got sent out just keep it in check that this thread is about the damage Rowling has caused to trans people in the UK and abroad. That we're a day out from aspects of that helping to fuel the UK Gov in their decision to block the only forward progress we've had recently, and recently had the thread be focused on giving out OK's to people engaging with her IP. So coming in with a paragraphs long post just to dance around a point of being worried people will attack others for liking Hogwarts Legacy is going to draw some ire. People are tired. The bandwidth for bullshit tolerance is thin.

So, please, keep it in your head if you're reading this and planning to hop into the thread to catch bullets for a game or wrong your hands over how some people might judge you for engaging with it.

Yeah. I understand now that if there was going to be any semblance of a conversation about this, it would've been years ago before things got as bad as they are.

Put me in the crowd that wants HL banned from ERA completely now.

What concerns me is that your phrasing here sounds like we---people upset by and/or directly hurt by JKR, and not the content creators themselves----need to be delicate in how we handle this situation. Should we immediately rip a content creator's head off, berate them, call them a piece of shit? No, probably not. Do I need to be told to be delicate about it though? My first reaction is, "what the fuck?" The focus in your statement is not where it needs to be. And while I am always a fan of education where and when able; I'm a cis white man. I should be ready and willing to challenge people on their transphobia, homophobia, racism, sexism, so on and so on. I'm not putting the onus on anyone LGBTQ+ to be anyone else's teacher.

All in all, I think you used way, way too many words to say what should have just been, "Hey, that was a good move reaching out to said content creator." Everything else was sanctimonious as Vonocourt put it.

Yeah. I really should've just appreciated what Neoxon did and left it at that. I only thought it best to explain why that should be done, and will take that into consideration.

Like the telling trans people they should try to meet the road on accepting their existence. They do that every day,

You motherfuckers have to work on your fucking talk. You literally lose nothing from it, for us trans folks it's our life if we fail.

I really tried to be as clear as possible that this is not what I was trying to tell.

Anyway, I don't want to talk about this any further. I apologize for having derailed this thread.

I fully expect to catch a ban, so I'll be reporting myself. Lesson learned.
 

Vonocourt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,678
Yeah. I understand now that if there was going to be any semblance of a conversation about this, it would've been years ago before things got as bad as they are.

Put me in the crowd that wants HL banned from ERA completely now.



Yeah. I really should've just appreciated what Neoxon did and left it at that. I only thought it best to explain why that should be done, and will take that into consideration.



I really tried to be as clear as possible that this is not what I was trying to tell.

Anyway, I don't want to talk about this any further. I apologize for having derailed this thread.

I fully expect to catch a ban, so I'll be reporting myself. Lesson learned.
Lol, you don't have to request a ban if you just apologize for being wrong.
 

GuessMyUserName

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
5,224
Toronto
Regarding content creators streaming the game, yeah that is absolutely gonna make me wary of a creator. It's not gonna be an all or nothing thing, but if they don't have anything to say about trans rights but they are all hyped up about their terf series then yeah I'm gonna be cautious because being trans online in the 2020s requires this for our own safety. I've gone through enough people hearing about Rowling's transphobia and just try to silence the conversation because it's a "touchy" subject - and that's just gonna encourage an audience that hates trans people to go on the defence to protect the parasocial relationship they built over their streamer and nothing will be said back about that. As always, trans folks get painted as the sole villains for speaking out against transphobia and I'm just gonna steer myself clear of that shit.

Now I say it's not an all or nothing thing because yeah, if someone IS very vocal in their support of trans rights beyond just boilerplate "people are free to be who they are" hands-off speech then I will still feel okay with them, but the very simple fact is that very few people ARE showing substantive public support for trans rights and quite frankly the venn diagram of people who do are people who are avoiding Rowling's mess in the first place.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,703
What trips me out is you can easily get the game used or rent it through gamefly if you really gotta play it. All this handwringing when there are work arounds makes no sense
 
Dec 2, 2017
20,776
Or you could just not play it. Like having a rental or buying it used doesn't put off from the fact you are still endorsing the work of a transphobe.