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Sumio Mondo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,981
United Kingdom
I hate to be a cynical asshole here, but do people actually think this amounts to anything? Brack is an okay start, I guess, but it really doesn't feel like removing him is solving much of an issue here. I hope this isn't it.

I absolutely do not. It's another Ubisoft situation - throw the odd scapegoats out whilst maintaining that nothing changed. They always hope people will just forget and buy their next shiny toy they are releasing and ignore the awful things going on behind closed doors.
 
May 26, 2018
24,080
Activision PR: This is an opportunity to begin again in a new era of diversity and empathy for Activision, where women are respected, listened to, and harassment is not allowed to—

Employee: I was harassed last night and HR told me to fuck o—

Activision PR: —flourish. We can not wait to share our future projects with you, our loyal fans.
 

Baji Boxer

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,387
It's a start, but from what's been reported, it seems to me a lot of people need to be fired, probably at all levels.

Edit: Also, Activision has problems at the very top, even without Blizzard.
 

Dark Ninja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,074
People still don't want to understand that Blizzard was doing all this stuff when they were making "good" games long before Activision. They can't even fire a lot of the people who were in that Cosby picture since most don't even work there anymore.

Also you know Jeff Kaplan probably knew about all this shit he was there when most of it was happening. He even allowed an Overwatch character to be named after one of those guys in the picture and texts that were released.
 

ZugZug123

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,412
Brack had to go but I'm waiting to see if more A/B heads roll or if he was the sacrificial lamb. Let's not forget how some of their messaging right after the lawsuit was made public was downright combative and victim blaming. It's rotten all the way to the C-suite.
 

crienne

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,257
JAB's been a scapegoat from the start. He had to take over for the esports shit that Mike and his wife left behind, and now he's getting (rightfully) tossed as a result of this investigation. I just hope people don't dust their hands off and walk away like this solves everything.
 

nonoriri

Member
Apr 30, 2020
4,263
Isn't this bad? Now activision wil reign supreme over blizzard. It will become worse than already is.
As much as we like to hate on Activision, almost all of the information that we've heard of indicates this sort of culture was highly concentrated in Blizzard and existed long before Activision ever took over as parent company. Blizzard is the problem here.
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,253
As much as we like to hate on Activision, almost all of the information that we've heard of indicates this sort of culture was highly concentrated in Blizzard and existed long before Activision ever took over as parent company. Blizzard is the problem here.

Highly concentrated at Blizzard is inaccurate. Blizzard had deeply rooted problems, yes, but the problems of Activision-Blizzard are not highly concentrated on Blizzard, lest you forget that the story about a woman having nudes of her being circulated amongst the company at a retreat who ended up committing suicide was Activision-side and not Blizzard-side.

Blizzard was the one getting names called out in the report, but Activision side is also deeply, deeply reprehensible, and so Activision asserting further control over Blizzard isn't inherently going to do much of anything to clean up the mess.
 

nonoriri

Member
Apr 30, 2020
4,263
Highly concentrated at Blizzard is inaccurate. Blizzard had deeply rooted problems, yes, but the problems of Activision-Blizzard are not highly concentrated on Blizzard, lest you forget that the story about a woman having nudes of her being circulated amongst the company at a retreat who ended up committing suicide was Activision-side and not Blizzard-side.

Blizzard was the one getting names called out in the report, but Activision side is also deeply, deeply reprehensible, and so Activision asserting further control over Blizzard isn't inherently going to do much of anything to clean up the mess.
??? No one is defending Activision or saying they aren't reprehensible. A lot of the stories have come exclusively from Blizzard and people named in the lawsuit are from Blizzard who were there prior to the acquisition. This is not letting Activision off the hook, this is pointing out that they didn't create this problem. This was a problem in Blizzard long before and we can't blame it on a company that we all like to hate.
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,253
??? No one is defending Activision or saying they aren't reprehensible. A lot of the stories have come exclusively from Blizzard and people named in the lawsuit are from Blizzard who were there prior to the acquisition. This is not letting Activision off the hook, this is pointing out that they didn't create this problem. This was a problem in Blizzard long before and we can't blame it on a company that we all like to hate.

There's plenty of stories involved here about Activision itself and not Blizzard, far more than enough that you should know better than to try to state, and I quote, "Blizzard is the problem here".

And I bring this up specifically because "Blizzard is the problem here" is the line that Activision's PR is probably going to take up in order to sell their continued takeover and merging of Blizzard with Activision proper as how they're fixing the problem.
 
Dec 27, 2019
6,119
Seattle
As much as we like to hate on Activision, almost all of the information that we've heard of indicates this sort of culture was highly concentrated in Blizzard and existed long before Activision ever took over as parent company. Blizzard is the problem here.
Plenty of the reports involve the Activision side of things. Just because Blizzard was doing this prior to their acquisition, doesn't mean Activision wasn't behaving the same way too.
 

Nista

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,122
And I bring this up specifically because "Blizzard is the problem here" is the line that Activision's PR is probably going to take up in order to sell their continued takeover and merging of Blizzard with Activision proper as how they're fixing the problem.

Since the sexual harassment claims took over in the media PR blitz, Activision's shallow attempts at "cleaning house" will focus on that.

But the big claims of pay discrimination and lack of opportunities at the company for women and minorities isn't going to change so easily. It's not like Blizzard HR has had any autonomy with that for years - it's all controlled by Activision. People were leaving Blizzard recently due to not wanting to put up with their terrible review processes, and this leadership change isn't going to directly address any of the walkout demands.

It's a relief that you won't be belittled as a sex object at work, but if you still make less than a living wage in one of the most expensive areas of the country, is it really worth sticking around at ABK? They also need to promote women and minorities as leads of actual dev teams, but I'm sure Torture Lady won't like that after she's blocked most of them on twitter. :P
 

nonoriri

Member
Apr 30, 2020
4,263
There's plenty of stories involved here about Activision itself and not Blizzard, far more than enough that you should know better than to try to state, and I quote, "Blizzard is the problem here".

And I bring this up specifically because "Blizzard is the problem here" is the line that Activision's PR is probably going to take up in order to sell their continued takeover and merging of Blizzard with Activision proper as how they're fixing the problem.
So, people get assaulted and you're... concerned about Activision using this to take over Blizzard? Why is the outcome of Blizzard as a company even a concern right now?

Both of these companies suck and I literally do not give a shit about what happens to them. Fuck Activision, but tired of seeing people try to shift the narrative away from Blizzard to Activision and how they're bad too and poor Blizzard will be taken over. It sucks because things are unlikely to change, not because Blizzard gets absorbed.

Plenty of the reports involve the Activision side of things. Just because Blizzard was doing this prior to their acquisition, doesn't mean Activision wasn't behaving the same way too.
I understand this. But my point is that people try to act like Blizzard was so great before Activision came along so they can pretend there was a time when these products weren't tainted when reports indicate that is not true. Both companies have shitty and toxic culture and I guess they were made for each other. Maybe it was the perfect acquisition after all.
 
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Sacul64

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,789
I understand this. But my point is that people try to act like Blizzard was so great before Activision came along so they can pretend there was a time when these products were tainted when reports indicate that is not true. Both companies have shitty and toxic culture and I guess they were made for each other. Maybe it was the perfect acquisition after all.

This, people seem to be reading this as "Blizzard is loosing what made Blizzard Blizzard" When what actually made Blizzard Blizzard is fucking sick.
 

nonoriri

Member
Apr 30, 2020
4,263
This, people seem to be reading this as "Blizzard is loosing what made Blizzard Blizzard" When what actually made Blizzard Blizzard is fucking sick.
Yes, that's a great way of putting it.

Like "oh no will Blizzard get absorbed and lose its identity?" when all of this horrible stuff is baked into its identity as a company from the early days. A lot of pillars in the company were involved. The shitty thing if Blizzard is absorbed is that things probably won't change because Activision has it's own batch of issues, not a loss of the Blizzard identity, which we've now learned is pretty much toxic at its roots.
 
Nov 2, 2017
2,253
So, people get assaulted and you're... concerned about Activision using this to take over Blizzard? Why is the outcome of Blizzard as a company even a concern right now?

Both of these companies suck and I literally do not give a shit about what happens to them. Fuck Activision, but tired of seeing people try to shift the narrative away from Blizzard to Activision and how they're bad too and poor Blizzard will be taken over. It sucks because things are unlikely to change, not because Blizzard gets absorbed.

Yeah, I don't know where you're getting that reading of my post.

I quit playing ActiBlizz games years ago, this isn't some bit of But Blizzard defensiveness, I don't give a shit about Blizzard's Integrity or whatever. I give a shit because this is how a known bad operator in Activision is going to try to paint Blizzard as The Problem and Activision as the solution to that problem. Activision's motivation isn't trying to clean house, they're instead accelerating the thing they've been working on for years and trying to sell it under the auspices of Blizzard being cleaned up, such that they can eventually present a public case that what they're doing is creating one big clean company. Language like "Blizzard is the problem here" is the method by which they're going to go about doing that.
 

trashbandit

Member
Dec 19, 2019
3,911
So why the need for "co-leaders"?

Why couldn't Jen Oneal be given the full, single title?
I think Schreier insinuated that this move will make it easier for Kotick to consolidate control of Blizzard, accelerating the process that's been going on over the last few years. Having two people be vague co-leaders probably strips them of some amount of decision making power. It's uncharitable speculation, but nothing that's happened with this company over the past few years could give you reason doubt that the lack of what little power a President of Blizzard has isn't being capitalized on by Activision.
 

zashga

Losing is fun
Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,232
It doesn't entirely resolve the problem, but I am glad to see Brack go. I hope this scandal follows him wherever he goes and stops him from landing another executive position.

Blizzard as an entity is still fucked. I don't even really want to say it was Brack's doing; it seems evident it was thoroughly rotten for years before he took over. I hope it gets better for the people working there, but I don't know how likely that is.

People still don't want to understand that Blizzard was doing all this stuff when they were making "good" games long before Activision. They can't even fire a lot of the people who were in that Cosby picture since most don't even work there anymore.

Also you know Jeff Kaplan probably knew about all this shit he was there when most of it was happening. He even allowed an Overwatch character to be named after one of those guys in the picture and texts that were released.

Kaplan's silence through all of this has been deafening .
 

Watershed

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,861
If there is going to be real culture change, this needs to be just the beginning and paired with new workplace accountability measures.
 

nonoriri

Member
Apr 30, 2020
4,263
Yeah, I don't know where you're getting that reading of my post.

I quit playing ActiBlizz games years ago, this isn't some bit of But Blizzard defensiveness, I don't give a shit about Blizzard's Integrity or whatever. I give a shit because this is how a known bad operator in Activision is going to try to paint Blizzard as The Problem and Activision as the solution to that problem. Activision's motivation isn't trying to clean house, they're instead accelerating the thing they've been working on for years and trying to sell it under the auspices of Blizzard being cleaned up, such that they can eventually present a public case that what they're doing is creating one big clean company. Language like "Blizzard is the problem here" is the method by which they're going to go about doing that.
Bringing up how Activision is a bad operator who has been planning this for years puts a victim narrative spin on Blizzard that certain parts of the gaming community (perhaps not you) will absolutely run with because Blizzard is the one with the loyalty and emotional connection to fans. There are a lot of people who want everything to be Activision's problem and that Blizzard simply absorbed their culture, despite evidence to the contrary, and will run with reasons to be concerned for Blizzard. I'm sure you agree that Blizzard is not a victim (I don't even think you can reduce them to scapegoat with the amount of accusations), and you're not wrong that Activision is also a bad actor. I just don't think the narrative as detailed above is the way to approach what is happening. Activision is a bad actor, not because they want to take over Blizzard, but because their policies mean that even if they do, there will likely be no improvement to the culture that created this because Activision has their own problems with sexism and harassment. If that was your intent, then we agree, but it was hard for me to understand because your posts seemed very focused on the fate of Blizzard as an entity.
 

Tbm24

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,492
I think Schreier insinuated that this move will make it easier for Kotick to consolidate control of Blizzard, accelerating the process that's been going on over the last few years. Having two people be vague co-leaders probably strips them of some amount of decision making power. It's uncharitable speculation, but nothing that's happened with this company over the past few years could give you reason doubt that the lack of what little power a President of Blizzard has isn't being capitalized on by Activision.
Kotick always had control over Blizzard. He's not going to suddenly micromanage these two Blizzard leaders. That doesn't make much sense.
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,276
So why the need for "co-leaders"?

Why couldn't Jen Oneal be given the full, single title?
On the one hand: Yes

On the other hand: How many companies have gone through rough spots only to hand the company over to a woman while it sinks, then back to a dude once things start improving?

Plus Kotick's probably going to make a move for power here.
 

Good4Squat

Member
Nov 2, 2017
3,154
And as usual none of the ones responsible including Brack are actually going to face any real serious consequences from their heinous actions. He'll probably find some other cushy job and even if not, I'm guessing he will still be okay.
 

Shahadan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,050
Scapegoat, and forced exit, lol. He didn't even write the message himself.

I also doubt he had much to do with anything reported besides not being able to stop it if he even tried in the short time he was in charge.
Also, ploy by Activision to gain more control, as previously stated. Gotta say Bobby is not an idiot.
 

Cort

Member
Nov 4, 2017
4,364
Scapegoat, and forced exit, lol. He didn't even write the message himself.

I also doubt he had much to do with anything reported besides not being able to stop it if he even tried in the short time he was in charge.
Also, ploy by Activision to gain more control, as previously stated. Gotta say Bobby is not an idiot.

JAB was Afriasiabi's boss for the entire decade. He was senior producer on WoW, he is directly responsible
 

PapaDev

Member
Oct 26, 2017
574
If Acti can get Blizzard into shape, get rid of their horrible culture, make decent games, and ship products on time I won't complain. The "old guard" has been fucking up things for a longtime. They had their shot.

You do know that "shipping things on time" is not something that comes with no costs to employees - right ? Ubisoft is shipping things "on time" and I guarantee you it's not the byproduct of great management or lack of unpaid overtime.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,313
new jersey

Interesting.
You do know that "shipping things on time" is not something that comes with no costs to employees - right ? Ubisoft is shipping things "on time" and I guarantee you it's not the byproduct of great management or lack of unpaid overtime.

I understand that. But Blizzard's had a horrible track record of shipping anything on time. Diablo 3 had a second expansion (oddly) cancelled. A bunch of prototypes were made. Diablo 4 still doesn't have a release date. Warcraft 3 Reforged was completely mismanaged. Warlords of Draenor is a graveyard of cut content and bad production. Overwatch 2 still isn't fucking finished despite just being Overwatch + PvE modes and some new character models. There is a fundamental problem at Blizzard when it comes to shipping a game. I understand to let things simmer, but holy shit it shouldn't be taking almost 10 fucking years to deliver a sequel to D3!

I'm in no way in support of crunching employees to ship more games on time, but there is something wrong on a producer/management level than an actual artist/programmer/etc level, ya know?