Jim Ryan: “The Sony stance is that the Japanese market remains incredibly important to us,”
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Well there you go even a huge failure like the WiiU was able to have million seller games. Why are ring fit and by your account some games " best enjoyed on TV" now an argument that the switch is selling on the strenght of a home console.
Thanks the whole topic has become absurd.
This is an incredibly naive post. Sony not only part funds these games through exclusivity and marketing deals, but they also in some instances publish them in other parts of the world. Of course Sony's contribution plays a role.
Final post on the subject since it's deemed not on topic anymore.
Because it has a whole lot more :) It's not rocket science, it's just data and market analysis. Check out the Media Create threads once in a while, there's a lot to learn.
Because it has a whole lot more :) It's not rocket science, it's just data and market analysis. Check out the Media Create threads once in a while, there's a lot to learn.
Because a lot of people buy Playstation for Japanese games... if dev support switchs completely to Switch (or stadia, luna, xcloud, nextgen switch) then quite a bit of the appeal of the console drops off a cliff.
Sony quite literally published Nioh 2, and clearly marketed FFVIIR for square. They play a part in this.
People take it for granted that Sony invests in japanese third parties. If Nintendo or Microsoft was able to snack up a mainline FF as an exclusive the whole internet would explode.
Sony having games like FF and Persona doesn't really mean anything in regards to the Bloomberg article.
1.The sidelining part was about Studio Japan and marketing
2. Things like FFXVI exclusivity are done for the west, which is where most of the sales for those games come from
1.The sidelining part was about Studio Japan and marketing
2. Things like FFXVI exclusivity are done for the west, which is where most of the sales for those games come from
That's not going to happen. Big 3rd party games will always come to Playstation.
People think Nintendo will take PlayStation's share of big Japanese games.
It also maintains relationships.
They are hoping for that to happen.
I can get behind you on Nioh 2, but lets not act like FFVII needed Sony's exclusivity deal and help to come out and be successful; if anything, that deal held back the impact that game could've made if it was on PC and Xbox day and date.
Nintendo does the same for plenty of other publishers too. Nintendo has this kind of partnership with Square Enix too, hell, Nintendo help fund so much for the localization of the 3DS Dragon Quest games. They gave more marketing to Dragon Quest 11 S , far more than whatever the base game got. And plenty more too.
Yeah well... this is discussing the possibility of it happening... saying "THIS IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN" is not even trying to discuss the subject matter, I'm not saying THIS IS GOING TO HAPPEN, it's just a WHAT IF. A lot of Japanese games are already skipping Playstation... maybe not all are BIG 3RD PARTY games but a lot of the japanese games appeal come from indie and AA devs like Nippon Ichi.
People are just pushing reality. Switch is a hybrid console that serves both functions and markets, it's not a binary home vs handheld console sort of thing but it's selling because of both. Japan has also historically tended not engage in the home vs handheld thing (that's largely a byproduct from western games press and industry) so this hyrbid approach probably had an easier time with messaging than in the west.
The reality distorters here are those ignoring Switch's home console functionality (and all that entails from marketing to prices to software and so on) in an effort to explain (but really excuse) PS4's underperformance in Japan. The reality is it goes a lot deeper than that, nevermind that the handheld Vita flopped even harder, and really Sony's sliding relevance in region is much more complex than just the shape their box takes.
I don't think most people are concerned, but there will be knock on affects big or small.
Like for example Disgaea fans on PlayStation will have to wait to play the latest game outside of Japan and that's a result of PlayStation's waning presence in Japan leading to Nippon Ichi exploring Switch and seeing success.
Are we talking about Sony specifically or third party JPN developers here?
The Switch is great because it fits the portable and the home console demographics. Just like it can't be ignored that it works well as a home console, it can't be ignored that it works well as a portable console too. In fact, it's even better because it can appeal to someone who doesn't have an appeal for portable or home consoles.
It is a bit of a leap to counteract the general trend of Japan moving towards mobile/portables with a console that doubles as a portable.
Additionally, a game that hasn't even sold 2 million isn't substantial evidence that the home console market in Japan is bigger than the expected ~15 million that is split across 3 consoles. If it was like 20 million sold, it would say something more substantial, as it could suggest that the console demographic that PS5 would appeal to, is bigger than we think. But if that's the best example, then with the current data on trends, it strongly suggests that the say ~15 million number isn't wrong, and that it is a major uphill battle for Sony to make major headway on the Japan market.
I don't know why your immediate reaction was essentially Nintendo Too™. I never even suggested Nintendo didn't do this, or mentioned Nintendo at all.
On that note, what is your source on Nintendo providing more marketing for Dragon Quest 11 S comparative to what the original recieved?
You said "if dev support completely switches to Switch" and that most certainly won't happen. A lot of franchises are getting more and more invested in Nintendo though.
Disgaea 6 is only skipping Playstation in the west and the NISA president outright said that Sony doesn't care about smaller Japanese companies.
For what its worth Nintendo highlighted the game through several directs, including e3. Sony didn't even have it on their E3 stage the year it came out (and that was already a very lackluster E3 that could've used games to fluff up). All of Sony's marketing amounted to a few tweets, if I am remembering correctly.
In 40 years our grandchildren will still be there, glorious console warriors, debating as to what kind of console the Nintendo Switch Extended 2 with built-in 65" inch foldable 3D screen is while praising the PS9 as it limps his way to 4.5M sales in Japan as the clear and definitive home console leader.
Well, they published and marketed it entirely overseas. NCL also probably sunk some co-marketing into the original in Japan (as did Sony).
They had a marketing deal. You can see it by the fact that the official Dragon Quest twitter never once talked about DQ11S Switch version, and only Nintendo's official channels did. They also gave it very big spotlights at E3 and in a number of Directs too.
At the end of it all it's one and the same, if perception is Sony doesn't care for Japan and the PS5 doesn't move numbers then third party JPN devs will follow the market that appeals japanese gamers... be it Switch, Stadia, Luna, xCloud or whatever is popular. Nintendo Switch development is so cheap and it has such a wide appeal on Japan that it can be decisive for indie/AA developers when taking into account where to put their game... and not even taking into account that indies on PS4 have had problems with discoverability and units sold for some time already and that could carry over to PS5.
None of this is relevant to the numbers. It's more that you're reading into things and are stretching your view of Sony's first party -- which is the most successful it's ever been -- to third parties now and drawing conclusions that aren't there.
Multiplatform games have been increasing ever since the PS2 days and have only accelerated, and this has also helped Sony as well (FF used to be exclusive to Nintendo, RE was exclusive to Nintendo for a time, Ninja Gaiden was exclusive to Xbox, Shenmue for Dreamcast/Xbox). Atelier was announced through Nintendo? FF15/FF7R was announced through Sony, and that series was created on Nintendo's platforms. Games like Nioh, Persona, and Nier were highlighted in Sony's compilations of biggest PS4 games with Persona being included in the PS Plus Collection along with games like GOW and Uncharted. They brought back Demon's Souls as a standout launch title. Marketing deals are pretty useless to us, anyway, but the bottom line is the days of third party exclusives being frequent have been over for a long time.
That's unrelated to Sony's reach, which is far bigger now than in the PS1/PS2 days when none of their franchises were that huge.
I don't think Switch devices is cheaper to develop for as it can get the same AAA games as on other consoles. What Switch offers is a very good market for mid size and smaller games that no longer get the attention of Sony and they almost always sell best on Switch already anyways. Its a self reinforcing cycle
Thing is, Sony could announce Persona 6 exclusive to PS5, along with Final Fantasy XVI and Project Athia (And the supposed Verum Rex game from Nomura), and having a single exclusive game with From Software, and announce a multi-game partnership together with Konami, and I bet we'd be having the same discussion that Sony doesn't care or continue seeing the argument that "Sony only cares about Japanese titles that resonate in the West"
I think - without knowing - that we'll see great Japanese support for Sony's platform. Will it be first party? Perhaps not, but we'll see tons of exclusives anyway.
Will Sony Japan produce more content, and at the same time support projects like Demon's Souls? Yes.
I think - without knowing - that we'll see great Japanese support for Sony's platform. Will it be first party? Perhaps not, but we'll see tons of exclusives anyway.
Will Sony Japan produce more content, and at the same time support projects like Demon's Souls? Yes.
Not everyone is born in a country that natively speaks english, maybe I made a mistake saying completely, I didn't mean every single developer. What I meant to say is that games on development for PS4/5 and Switch could switch completely to Switch if the appeal is not on Sony's Console but companies like Konami, Capcom and Sega will almost always target Playstation with their games, that's quite obvious.
The PS5 will probably fall short of the PS4 for a wide margin, and once the switch 2 is out, it would not get all third party Japanese games as (almost) exclusives there, so it is a good idea to focus on a more worldwide scenario.
All the big Japanese games are Nintendo games.
MHW and DQ are the only Japanese games selling in the range of Nintendo games, and nor MH or DQ are exclusive to PS.
All the big Japanese games are Nintendo games.
MHW and DQ are the only Japanese games selling in the range of Nintendo games, and nor MH or DQ are exclusive to PS.
Unsurprising corporate response.
I don't doubt that Japan remains a very important market for Sony, it just is not the number one market anymore and hasn't been for quite some time. There is more potential for growth in the USA after all - 325 million people vs 125 million in Japan. Then you have the fact that games are getting more expensive to produce, meaning less games are made every generation, so companies have to shift priorities.
Nintendo can get away with being Nintendo because they're A1 when it comes to innovation, and hold many of the most valuable IPs in gaming.
I don't doubt that Japan remains a very important market for Sony, it just is not the number one market anymore and hasn't been for quite some time. There is more potential for growth in the USA after all - 325 million people vs 125 million in Japan. Then you have the fact that games are getting more expensive to produce, meaning less games are made every generation, so companies have to shift priorities.
Nintendo can get away with being Nintendo because they're A1 when it comes to innovation, and hold many of the most valuable IPs in gaming.
It was timed console exclusive on PS4 with marketing rights, so presumably PlayStation either partly or fully paid for whatever form of marketing the original version had, eg on TV, YouTube, Social Media, magazines etc. It was plastered all over PlayStation's social media, but you're right the main announcement and trailers for it were shown on Square Enix streams.
PlayStation also had marketing rights too, a games promotion visa a platforms social media vs the publishers doesn't really tell us much about the crux of the marketing budget, eg actual TV, social media and magazine adverts. So do you have a source or did you just guess/assume Nintendo provided more in terms of marketing?
It wasn't really a timed exclusive for Playstation in the traditional sense. Keep in mind, it was also a 3DS game in Japan and wasn't on Switch yet because of timing of development and Switch releasing after development started. It was only an "exclusive" in the U.S. because 3DS was well past its prime and Square didn't want to release that version in the west after Switch was already out. It could be said that Sony paid to keep it off Xbox all together which I would've laughed at that notion back in 2018, but with DQXI releasing on Xbox today (actually) I could definitely see a scenario where Sony paid to keep it off Xbox in the west back in 2018.
The issue there is that those games are basically what the PS4 got and there were questions about Sony in Japan then too. Sony would have to do something different for people to react differently.
I don't think this is true. The Switch version was delayed because of Unreal Engine issues and MS clearly paid to get the game on Game Pass this year.
They gave them spaces on several Directs, published the game on the West and gave them a roster slot in Smash, what else could've they have done.
I fully believe Sony is as committed as ever to Japan, The narrative people have spun up that says otherwise just smells like BS. But it can also be true that the Japanese market just isn't into expensive home consoles anymore, at least not to the extent they used to be. So it's a challenge to win over that group of people when costs remain as high as they do, and supply as limited as it is.
It's a tough spot. All you can do is try to secure games and they will obviously do that as they already have.
It's a tough spot. All you can do is try to secure games and they will obviously do that as they already have.
You think 3rd parties have been growing in Japan on Playstation platform in recent years? And if we're talking the west, plenty of these mid-tier developed JP titles that now include Switch are seeing 2:1 in Switch's favor. Capcom's own leak even brings up a JRPG boom happening in the west on the Switch currently, and they cite Nintendo 1st party, Nintendo exclusives (full and timed), and seeing 3rd party results.
But we're talking about Japan here and Sony's failure to resonate and reach audiences in Japan. Their reach is incredibly low in Japan. And they over rely on 3rd parties to try and pull them out of it when it hasn't worked for the PS4. They don't make games that appeal to Japan, they don't fund games that could resonate in Japan, they do nothing.
I don't know why people are concerned here. The PS5 is available in the Japanese market. It has Japanese games. What's the concern?
It is just concern that Sony is not as dominant as it used to be in the region? Why does that matter?
It is just concern that Sony is not as dominant as it used to be in the region? Why does that matter?
Paid for a Super Bowl Ad. Ok sarcasm aside, there is (generally costlier) marketing outside of platform specific stuff, eg TV adverts, online and gaming outlet ads, magazines, social media etc. I am not saying Nintendo didn't spend more on marketing, I'm just trying to gauge how some have definitively concluded things based on inconclusive information.
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Using Final Fantasy as a counterpoint is very weird because it happened 25 years ago and was actually part of a major shift in the dynamics of the market that put Sony on top and Nintendo as a distant second.
There are better examples of cross pollination in the modern day(DQ, MH, Level 5, TWEWY?) on PS4/PS5 but the major difference is that since the PlayStation entered the market it has enjoyed a vast amount of exclusive content from Japanese publishers and Sony has relied on that to sell the platform(in Japan at least).
But also it's the risk of it rippling out as Nanashrew says, not that I think it will. PlayStation already had a diminished presence against the 3DS and early days of the Switch despite getting a lot more third party support than those systems so how much more difficult will it be without that advantage? and what happens if it gets to the point that a Nintendo marketing deal in exchange for exclusivity makes more sense?