Jim Ryan: PlayStation about big blockbuster games that cost a lot to make, Game Pass model would not make financial sense
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The quote from Games Industry is more interesting, if it wasn't shared already.
"We have had this conversation before -- we are not going to go down the road of putting new releases titles into a subscription model. These games cost many millions of dollars, well over $100 million, to develop. We just don't see that as sustainable.
"We want to make the games bigger and better, and hopefully at some stage more persistent. So putting those into a subscription model on day one, for us, just doesn't make any sense. For others in a different situation, it might well make sense, but for us it doesn't. We want to expand and grow our existing ecosystem , and putting new games into a subscription model just doesn't sit with that."
"We have had this conversation before -- we are not going to go down the road of putting new releases titles into a subscription model. These games cost many millions of dollars, well over $100 million, to develop. We just don't see that as sustainable.
"We want to make the games bigger and better, and hopefully at some stage more persistent. So putting those into a subscription model on day one, for us, just doesn't make any sense. For others in a different situation, it might well make sense, but for us it doesn't. We want to expand and grow our existing ecosystem , and putting new games into a subscription model just doesn't sit with that."
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It's not a matter of lenght, an piece of entertainment has an inherit value as a whole. A movie ticket for say "The Hobbit" doesn't cost twice than "Inside Out".
My question is rather, if the 80€ price tag is justified by the game offering an experience with the "look and feel" of a movie than why the "entry fee" is so unproportioned compared to the medium they're trying to mimick?
I'm sure that's the dream some devs have, though as a dev - everything I hear about working on games the size of TLoU, GoW etc. just sounds horrible and I would never want to do that. In general I think these magnum opus are more the dreams of gamers than devs (there's a reason a lot of dev quit AAA to work on their indie magnum opus)
Of course there's a place for the "blockbuster" type experience - But I think we need to rethink what a blockbuster means in gaming these days. I just think we need to stop pushing these studios to make small graphical gains for an amazing amount of effort in an ever increasing scale. Games kind of look good enough and are way too big already - Add some RT on top of it, reduce team sizes, make dev time longer, eliminate crunch.
This model works for them, obviously, why would they change that?
Sony could and sony will, they're simply waiting to see how it goes for microsoft.
At the end of the day if you have say 50m people giving you $15 a month that's $750m a month, guaranteed.
This doesn't remove your other income streams either. Netflix has 4 times as many subscribers.
This is where MS are trying to get to. Where they can have billions every month or two to buy up or make content.
This doesn't remove your other income streams either. Netflix has 4 times as many subscribers.
This is where MS are trying to get to. Where they can have billions every month or two to buy up or make content.
There is no AAA budget that is determined for all AAA, the difference can be big.
GTA and Gears 5 are prob 100mil apart for example.
Nintendo would be the last pub to put their games on a sub service
And look at the launch titles: Demon's Souls, Spider-Man, Destruction Allstars, Sackboy and Astro's Playroom. What's not diverse about it?
Just because a business model works for MS doesn't mean it'll work for Sony, and vice versa. This shouldn't be particularly controversial.
Sony continued to release PS1 and PS2 games after their successors had launched, hell even the PS3 got Gran Turismo 6 after the PS4 released. Supporting their old platforms for at least another year or so isn't really new for them.
Sony continued to release PS1 and PS2 games after their successors had launched, hell even the PS3 got Gran Turismo 6 after the PS4 released. Supporting their old platforms for at least another year or so isn't really new for them.
They already have one. PSNow, they're just not pushing it like Xbox does Gamepass.
While I'm not defending Sony here, I have to say this really depends on what you personally value. Some of these games I played and replayed and got insane value out of them. Some even hundreds of hours. 12 movie tickets is around 25 hours, and if I don't like these movies, it's 25 wasted hours.
Again, not defending Sony, especially after learning the 80e bullshit (just a few posts above). But just saying that I personally prefer quality over quantity, so if Sony really makes these amazing games like they did this gen, I will still prefer them instead of 10 lower-quality games for the same price (and I'll still be pissed they are charging me 80 fucking euros, but I will buy them).
Edit: I was wrong, it was available day one on PC Origin Access Premier
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Eh... he might be lying ... he might be telling the truth ... Either way, Sony makes the games I like and whatever they got to do to keep it coming I'm for. Gaming is a relatively cheap hobby at the end of the day.
also, gamepass is fine, but to be honest after subscribing for 6 months now, I really don't play that many games... I try a shit ton out, but now a days it's the big blockbusters that get me playing every now and then, and there just isn't that much that appeals to me from the Xbox side. Hopeful that'll all change in 3 years when MS acquisitions bear fruit.
MS flight sim is god tier though and I'm hoping age of empires 4 turns out as good.
also, gamepass is fine, but to be honest after subscribing for 6 months now, I really don't play that many games... I try a shit ton out, but now a days it's the big blockbusters that get me playing every now and then, and there just isn't that much that appeals to me from the Xbox side. Hopeful that'll all change in 3 years when MS acquisitions bear fruit.
MS flight sim is god tier though and I'm hoping age of empires 4 turns out as good.
Subscription services will be the norm?
They're increasing the price of games form $60 to $70 and you think they'd willing go down to $15 a month? A value they have to share with everyone else on the service?
Gamepass is great for GaaS but I'm not so sure it's good for one and done cinematic single player games Sony is defining the Playstation brand as.
They're increasing the price of games form $60 to $70 and you think they'd willing go down to $15 a month? A value they have to share with everyone else on the service?
Gamepass is great for GaaS but I'm not so sure it's good for one and done cinematic single player games Sony is defining the Playstation brand as.
Game Pass is why I'm getting a Series X at launch and waiting on the PS5. The complete opposite to how I was when the PS4 and Xbox One launched. Game Pass is to Microsoft what PS+ was to Sony when launching the PS4. The value preposition is through the roof especially now that games are going to launch at $70.
That is why that day one PS+ Collection is a smart move from Jim Ryan, creates immense value on day one for subscribers but especially for people new to the PS ecosystem. Now they can enjoy highlights from the PS4 generation, which really helps their value proposition against their competitors. Especially considering the quality of those titles.
They clearly believe in generations. They just don't think he current generations is ready to die.
Microsoft can afford to have far lower profit margins or even operate at a loss because gaming isn't their main source of profits.
So yes, they can probably create AAA blockbusters and safely make far less money and not have it affect them one tiny iota.
Hell the whole Xbox brand could crater non stop financially and they'll still be top of the pack in terms of overall business revenue from things like windows.
Sony couldn't take those kind of losses though, their gaming division is too valuable.
Yeah, forgot about VAT. But since 1e is 1.18 USD, even with VAT doesn't that mean the price should be 70 euro? I mean, the old prices were 60 USD game = 60 euro game, so I still see no reason to make it 80 euros.
PC is the only platform with a higher tier and it has always given the deluxe edition on Day 1.
They are plenty sustainable, Sony has been making them and selling them in the millions and making profit.
You think the industry is going to be pulled down to only cheap and indie games? Never happens, if it did you would lose a huge amount of gamers.
Well, then they should have been upfront with that, and putting the ps4 logo in their June trailers.
It makes sense, we already see Microsoft properties turning into live services that capitalise on long-term subscriptions and microtransactions to make money. With Gamepass, money doesn't come from selling copies, so games aren't full-blown packages like the Sony tentpoles. I much prefer Sony's strategy to be honest, it's better for the types of games I want to play.
Those games were captured on PS5 though. Unless I am misremembering that point.
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We don't have to like it, but it makes sense from a business perspective, they want to make as much money as possible, so of course they will continue to sell their games directly on not through a subscription service. Wait, but why does MS do it? Well I'm sure they sell a lot less of their exclusives, maybe aside from Halo/Forza. If they had major AAA exclusives I'm not so sure they would have come up with something like Gamepass. Don't get me wrong, it is really cool, especially with Ultimate where you get games on Xbox and PC (and Xbox Live Gold, though I still think they should get rid of paying for online gaming on console...that's just so annoying as a (also) PC player).
Microsoft heavily pushed Gamepass, not just by adding great games, but also by giving subs away nearly for free (1 Euro), special deals for 12 months, etc. It's not wonder people love it, because you didn't have to pay a lot for it at this state. People would love Netflix more if they would give away subs at high discounts all the time even more ;)
I don't like the 80 Euro price tag, especially compared with US pricing (taxes I know, but still), that's really not a cool thing. On the other hand, I still prefer paying 80 Euro once and getting an awesome singleplayer experience for more than 10/20 hours rather than having to pay 60-70 Euro, than 10 Euro again for next gen upgrade or 40 Euro a year for a season pass and additional DLC, etc. Still hope retailers will end up selling most games for 60-70 Euro, maybe not all the time or at launch, but over time.
Bigger issues for me are stuff like Devil May Cry, where you are supposed to pay like 40-50 Euro again for a game that doesn't have many improvements, where I would expect a free update or a 10 Euro update or something like that. I mean Raytraying at up to 4K/30 or 1080/60 on PS5? and I should dish out another 40-50 Euro for that? No thanks!
Some goes for NBA 2K21, you want to get the next gen version? sure go ahead, but you need to buy the digital deluxe edition for 100 Euro to get the STANDARD ps5 version upgrade, oh you need in-game currency to progress and have fun? well just go ahead and pay another 50 Euro for it then, because you only get the Standard version upgrading for the deluxe version for PS4, because well we can make more money for doing nothing that way.
These are points that are really bad and annoying way more for me then having to pay maybe 10 Euro more for some games, which still isn't great, 80 Euro is just too much in Europe.
Microsoft heavily pushed Gamepass, not just by adding great games, but also by giving subs away nearly for free (1 Euro), special deals for 12 months, etc. It's not wonder people love it, because you didn't have to pay a lot for it at this state. People would love Netflix more if they would give away subs at high discounts all the time even more ;)
I don't like the 80 Euro price tag, especially compared with US pricing (taxes I know, but still), that's really not a cool thing. On the other hand, I still prefer paying 80 Euro once and getting an awesome singleplayer experience for more than 10/20 hours rather than having to pay 60-70 Euro, than 10 Euro again for next gen upgrade or 40 Euro a year for a season pass and additional DLC, etc. Still hope retailers will end up selling most games for 60-70 Euro, maybe not all the time or at launch, but over time.
Bigger issues for me are stuff like Devil May Cry, where you are supposed to pay like 40-50 Euro again for a game that doesn't have many improvements, where I would expect a free update or a 10 Euro update or something like that. I mean Raytraying at up to 4K/30 or 1080/60 on PS5? and I should dish out another 40-50 Euro for that? No thanks!
Some goes for NBA 2K21, you want to get the next gen version? sure go ahead, but you need to buy the digital deluxe edition for 100 Euro to get the STANDARD ps5 version upgrade, oh you need in-game currency to progress and have fun? well just go ahead and pay another 50 Euro for it then, because you only get the Standard version upgrading for the deluxe version for PS4, because well we can make more money for doing nothing that way.
These are points that are really bad and annoying way more for me then having to pay maybe 10 Euro more for some games, which still isn't great, 80 Euro is just too much in Europe.
So, basically, he said "not on day one" (meaning "some day - possibly") and when they decide to do it after a while people will still call them liars.
I honestly don't care, but people love to hate, don't they? :)
Yeah, and FF trailer yesterday was captured on PC and yet they still showed that it was coming to ps5, all multiplatforms or crossplay games are showed running on one machine, that doesn't mean you have to hide the other platforms where it's releasing.
You're right, I forgot the higher tier was PC only and it was available.
Let's be honest here,
Sony releases maybe 2-3 Blockbusters a year, and I doubt the rest of the game listed outside of that have huge budget or sales (MLB sell about 1 million a year?).
Assuming Sony had to make all thier money on a Game Pass type service, I'd loosely estimate they need to be grossing north of 6-7 Billion per year to do just as good as they do now (15 million sales each for blockbuster titles @$60, plus over 1 billion to cover sales of thier other games, and 41,500,000 PS+ subscribers @ $60/year.
7 Billion ÷ 180 (12 x $15/month) = 38,888,888 subscribers.
That is a huge number, but I tink Sony cpuld get there. PS plus subscriptions likepy don't even need to be included, since people would subscribe regardless of whether they subscribe to this service or not. Also, thier games would still sell at retail and on thier store, so I doubt they'd need close to that many subscribers. The Service would be complimentary to thier sales and services.
List of Games they released in 2019/2020.
2020
- Dreams (Blockbuster)
- The Last of Us 2 (Blockbuster)
- Ghost of Tsushima (Blockbuster)
- Predator Hunting Grounds
- MLB The Show 20
- Patapon 2 Remastered
- Iron Man VR
2019
- Death Stranding (Blockbuster)
- Blood and Truth VR
- MLB The Show 19
- Medievil
- Concrete Genie
- Firewall Zero Operation Heartland /nightfall VR
- Erica
- Everybody's Golf VR
- Days Gone (Blockbuster)
- Kingdom Hearts VR Experience
- Melbits world
Sony releases maybe 2-3 Blockbusters a year, and I doubt the rest of the game listed outside of that have huge budget or sales (MLB sell about 1 million a year?).
Assuming Sony had to make all thier money on a Game Pass type service, I'd loosely estimate they need to be grossing north of 6-7 Billion per year to do just as good as they do now (15 million sales each for blockbuster titles @$60, plus over 1 billion to cover sales of thier other games, and 41,500,000 PS+ subscribers @ $60/year.
7 Billion ÷ 180 (12 x $15/month) = 38,888,888 subscribers.
That is a huge number, but I tink Sony cpuld get there. PS plus subscriptions likepy don't even need to be included, since people would subscribe regardless of whether they subscribe to this service or not. Also, thier games would still sell at retail and on thier store, so I doubt they'd need close to that many subscribers. The Service would be complimentary to thier sales and services.
List of Games they released in 2019/2020.
2020
- Dreams (Blockbuster)
- The Last of Us 2 (Blockbuster)
- Ghost of Tsushima (Blockbuster)
- Predator Hunting Grounds
- MLB The Show 20
- Patapon 2 Remastered
- Iron Man VR
2019
- Death Stranding (Blockbuster)
- Blood and Truth VR
- MLB The Show 19
- Medievil
- Concrete Genie
- Firewall Zero Operation Heartland /nightfall VR
- Erica
- Everybody's Golf VR
- Days Gone (Blockbuster)
- Kingdom Hearts VR Experience
- Melbits world
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No, i asked bc the statement was that it would impact the games.
€80 for a game doesn't make financial sense to me, so no PS5 or games for me for a good while. No more day one purchases and I've probably bought 30+ new, full priced PS4 games this gen. Enough is enough, I can afford €80, but I refuse to pay that much for "release broken, patch later" video games on principle. Fuck off with €80 games, jim.
OP
OP
Yeah it was actually a cool way to play the game day one.
The problem is that I didn't continue to sub to Origin Premiere (EA Play Pro now) because they have no constant stream of new content. So it backfired on them. EA's releases are too sporadic and far apart. The same can be said for Uplay+.
Compare this to MS, who has managed to constantly deliver brand new day one games - both first party and indie - every month throughout the year. And that's what you need to make a subscription service like this work - a constant slew of brand new content. And it's why I continue to subscribe to Game Pass but not the other services.
I'd say it's implied in the sentence that when it does make financial sense Sony will do it. So don't come at him with pitchforks when it happens.
You know why they didnt. They wanted the narrative that those games were next gen only where their nearest competitor had a different vision they could market against
Having a couple cross gen games in a console's first year does not go against believing in generations. Stop with this.
Yeah, sure, titles as Forza Horizon 4, Gears 5, Halo: Infinite, Hellblade 2, Avowed, Fable, Forza Next and others were probably done by 10 people in a garage for like 1.000 dollars each
Of 9 first party games showed, 3 are cross gen.
People are making it bigger than it is for some reason.
