Jim Sterling - Marvel's Avengers Is One Big Corporate Cash Grab

[spineduke]

Look, I get it that some people still like Nostalgia Critic and a lot of these aging vlog cranks.

But it's 2020, open a new window and see who is out there talking. Lot of good channels that will take an issue from a perspective and guide you through a world a decisions. Cause and effect. Not just "oooo evil evil evil. piss shit piss shit" followed by ironic (?) self aggrandizing that his fans ironically (?) and freely give him.

The attitudes this dude brings to this forum are toxic. Plain and simple.

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So, don't participate in these threads then? Simple enough

 

[RadzPrower]

Because even though they don't effect the gameplay directly, video games are a visual medium, what the game looks like is an intrinsic part of why people play the game.
At one time all such cosmetics would be part of the game, now they are taken out monitised because these companies know people will pay to have the game look how they want.
On the surface it doesn't look like a big deal but it is.
Its devious, manipulative way to coax more guaranteed money out of people while still charging full price for the base game.
Its horrible.

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Okay, follow-up question: does it make a difference if said cosmetics ARE included in the game and can be earned via gameplay or via in-game currency (i.e. you don't HAVE to pay for them, but that's an option)?

 

[Karthane]

So, don't participate in these threads then? Simple enough

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Don't like the way something is and the effect it's having on a group? Ignore it! Works every time

 

[Deleted member 17388]

yeah, the game is EA writen all over, suprised to be from the same devs of tomb raider =(

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Why is it surprising? :v

The publisher still has the corporate DNA of EIDOS that made the original Tomb Raider developers crunch till they were off (By selling them)
Plus they always have taken advantage of their IPs to the extreme, from licensing for whatever, regardless of the portrayal, to sponsorship of anything under the sun.

And their games have taken advantage of every new way of profiting that has appeared, from season passes to DLC, and more.
The last game literally had this roadmap to start making sense of the editions:

 

[TheEchosOfTheCyborg]

I remember a video reviewer who did reviews of bootleg toys and one of them was of a Iron Man 3 Tony Suit painted in the colours of an Iphone with Apple branding...

We're are seriously now going into territory of Bootleg territory of tacky...

And it being a thing is, yes this has happened before (something Jim's brings up in this and many videos before) but that doesn't mean we can't snark at the absurdness of it, call it tacky or even criticise (that FF7R butter fingers thing people keep posting here just depresses me given the actual themes in the games, kind of undermines the games message and makes it's themes and messages feel less sincere).

As Jim has said when it came to Ubisoft when they do this with Assassin's Creed and Watch Dogs, if it was just this, their wouldn't be much problem, but it isn't, it's these cross promotional deals, plus pre-order bonuses, plues Limited editions, plus DLC,plus platform DLC, plus microtransactions, plus with other games Lootboxes, season passes, battle passes, event DLC, timed exclusive content, with the most egregious examples coming from Publishers who are the least likely to actually need it and straight up don't.

It's an Avengers game, it will sell regardless on Brand recognition alone and for being a AAA big budget game. It not selling would be the bigger news story

 

[impingu1984]

I disagree.

Disney have at least shown some restraint in exploiting the MCU, taking care to build up a huge franchise over the years that will last. But when it comes to videogames, it seems everyone just piles on. Squeeze every penny out of it and then move on to the next big thing.

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How many movies in the MCU now.... How many per year....

They are milking that cash cow till it's dry.. it's on a industrial scale right now....

That's restraint? They've built it up yeah... But they are just letting the money machine bring home the cash now.

Some would argue they are destroying cinema as it's feels like cinema = more super hero movies now with all the marketing etc just stomping and overshadowing everything...

Marvel as a brand is peak corporate cash grab.

But they do make some good media while being a corporate cash grab...

 

[Sixfortyfive]

And, yet, it's not nonsense. You're not buying a pack of gum or candy bar or off-brand condom to get a piece of actual gameplay, it's a skin. It's not important to the game in the sense that it's purely visual. At that, most of these (not Spider-Man), if not all of them, are likely to be unlockable later or become DLC at some point whether free or otherwise. the randomness of the 5 Gum thing is a little irksome, to be fair, because you're buying loot box gum, but if it weren't random it really wouldn't be any different than offering $3 DLC for something. Whether it suckers anyone into something is another story, but I will be buying some 5 Gum to try and get that damned Kamala emote (and I'll use it because it's not bad and I keep a pack in my car anyway).

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I think "it's just cosmetic" rings a bit hollow here because we're talking about a licensed game in the first place.

You could remove the entire branding and replace the cast of characters with a bunch of Avengers knock-offs and keep the same gameplay, but I doubt there would be much interest for the product in that case.

I think there is a little bit of dishonesty in the argument that cosmetics are just window-dressing, and not sometimes a major draw in their own right.

How many movies in the MCU now.... How many per year....

They are milking that cash cow till it's dry.. it's on a industrial scale right now....

That's restraint? They've built it up yeah... But they are just letting the money machine bring home the cash now.

Some would argue they are destroying cinema as it's feels like cinema = more super hero movies now with all the marketing etc just stomping and overshadowing everything...

Marvel as a brand is peak corporate cash grab.

But they do make some good media while being a corporate cash grab...

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I think Marvel as a movie studio deserves more credit than you're giving them to be honest. I will unashamedly argue that they have more creative integrity than that.

"Peak" corporate cash grab in film would be the Adam Sandler level of product placement:




And I get the same kind of gross over-driven advertising/monetization vibes out of popular video games way more often than I do out of popular cinema.

 

[haziq]

Out of all companies with cross-advertising, SE is definitely the weirdest and the worst because it always seems to affect the main product in a way that's detrimental.

Among all the problems XV had, I wonder if there could've been a couple more DLC's or a more complete game in general if they didn't spend time and money creating assets for Coleman and Cup Noodles. And then they cross-promoted the Xbox One by making Rise of the Tomb Raider a console exclusive for a year. And now, they're cross promoting on their cross promoting: exclusive PlayStation characters, Verizon skins, and probably much more.

Doesn't help that the game looks like trash, either. I guess that's why they aren't confident in the game selling on its own merits (and the fact that it's a Marvel game), and have to cross promote in order to make their money back.

 

[Z-Brownie]

while i'm not surprised at all. crystal dynamics, it'd seem, has gone from being a pretty imaginative developer to one that exists to capitalize on other people's creations...

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yeah, i was reminded about the exclusivity

Why is it surprising? :v

The publisher still has the corporate DNA of EIDOS that made the original Tomb Raider developers crunch till they were off (By selling them)
Plus they always have taken advantage of their IPs to the extreme, from licensing for whatever, regardless of the portrayal, to sponsorship of anything under the sun.

And their games have taken advantage of every new way of profiting that has appeared, from season passes to DLC, and more.
The last game literally had this roadmap to start making sense of the editions:

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other people already reminded me how dirt they are, yeah, not surprised anymore

 

[hikarutilmitt]

I think "it's just cosmetic" rings a bit hollow here because we're talking about a licensed game in the first place.

You could remove the entire branding and replace the cast of characters with a bunch of Avengers knock-offs and keep the same gameplay, but I doubt there would be much interest for the product in that case.

I think there is a little bit of dishonesty in the argument that cosmetics are just window-dressing, and not sometimes a major draw in their own right.

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That's fair, but I also think this is a case that's at least a little different than, say, an IP that is its own thing. Cosmetics in MMOs and Destiny and the like are definitely "just cosmetics" and, to your point, it's different having something like a comic book game locking skins, like actual outfits at some point, behind things. They're still "just cosmetics" and don't generally affect gameplay, but there's a different base going after them, too. There are so many Spider-Man costumes that could be used and all be thematically appropriate at any given time just because he's had so damned many that aren't just artist variations on the classic blue and red. But, to my earlier post. is it different tying a skin to a product to purchase than to MTX if it's not a glorified loot box like the 5 Gum one?

Side note on the cash grab comments though: there's something that feels inherently weird about cross-promotions and in-game ads compared to movies or TV if only because the former is still a relatively young medium and we're seeing this happen more frequently in it more recently. Movies have done tit for so long you don't even notice it half the time and when you do on a movie or TV show it's because it's really, really, really blatant and sometimes tongue-in-cheek in presentation. I still can't decide if the 5 DOLLAR FOOTLONG thing in that one episode of Hawaii Five-O from nearly a decade ago is taking the piss or not. The Nike placement near the beginning of The Terminator is still the GOAT for me:

 

[Deleted member 12352]

Seems pretty typical to me tbh.

 

[OtisPepperoni]

If the game is fun (which I found the beta to be), who cares.

Anyway, is there a Official Resetera group for this? Would love to Squad up with some people upon the full release.

 

[FantasticMrFoxdie]

This guy sure loves clickbait titles and riding hate waves.

Not sure why people are surprised. Its Square Enix and Marvel. Probably the two biggest milkers in entertainment lol. And they've been doing it for ages now.

 

[panda-zebra]

Cross promotions don't always work out for the best. Spare a thought for Monster, their promo now ends before the game releases, it looks like they have some sort of AR thing planned, too. You can still win a Series X though, even if you'll have to wait on the XP buff.

 

[Mandalorian]

Video game company makes game to make money . But in all reality I can see why this is annoying but it's mostly harmless
Literally all story content and characters are free who cares about cosmetics
This is like saying Fortnite is made to make money.

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Yeah, I feel like this Jimpressions is so low effort that it feels like Jim is parodying himself. So Marvel's Avengers is Crystal Dynamics working towards to make the most money they can out of the property. Really, Jim?

Ironically, this video seems clickbaity as hell, while Digital Foundry's impressions on the game performance barely got any attention here on Era.

 

[Sheng Long]

Always? I know 2020's been long, but man!

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Destiny did it way back with Red Bull in 2015 and again with Rockstar energy drinks couple years ago.

 

[AlexBasch]

Sony really missed out on forcing PC and Xbox players to pay $15-20 to download Spider-Man while the PS4 has him for free (I think?) Just imagine the meltdown and grudge purchases that would go down.

I'm saying this in a tongue in cheek manner, but it would fall in line with that fake Kaz Hirai CEO account from Twitter.

 

[Amauri14]

I'm just glad that just like with Anthem, hell even faster than with that game once I saw it I instantly became completely uninterested in it.

 

[ReplacementPelican]

Sony really missed out on forcing PC and Xbox players to pay $15-20 to download Spider-Man while the PS4 has him for free (I think?) Just imagine the meltdown and grudge purchases that would go down.

I'm saying this in a tongue in cheek manner, but it would fall in line with that fake Kaz Hirai CEO account from Twitter.

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I don't think this would work at all given that they've said all characters are free, making that bit of marketing a lie would probably be very problematic. Not that the situation isn't already.

Every player gets the characters and missions for free, presumably subsidised by the people that pay real money for cosmetic things like costumes and emotes.

Stealth edit - I know you're not being entirely serious, by the way, I'm just making you aware of the situation due to your 'i think' parenthesis.

 

[SageShinigami]

I don't think this would work at all given that they've said all characters are free, making that bit of marketing a lie would probably be very problematic. Not that the situation isn't already.

Every player gets the characters and missions for free, presumably subsidised by the people that pay real money for cosmetic things like costumes and emotes.

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I think the lack of a sufficient roadmap is getting in their way a bit. If they release a robust Y1 roadmap that entails new maps and characters and all of it free, people will care less about skins.

 

[Deleted member 14080]

Jim is right.

 

[Moai]

This game looks like a disaster. Why is there clipping in m the first 20 Seconds?
And those Skins are something.

 

[SpaceCrystal]

I would have to agree. If anyone wants a good "Marvel Avengers" game, check out Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3.

 

[Mandalorian]

2020 really did a number on us if we're mad about normal cross-promotion stuff.

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Just to give people some perspective: I am probably part of the 1% of people in Brazil that knows what Verizon is. Of course that more people know what Intel is, but even that, the contingent of people that do know about these skins and promotions isn't big among people buying the game in the USA, let alone outside the USA.

My point is... this is a harmless cross promotion that won't even hit most of the game's audience when it's all said and done. I like Jim and I agree with him more often than not, but this time I do think he went a little overboard. The larger audience simply has no single good reason to care about a cross promotion made with the USA consumers in mind. As long as it helps the game being funded for the years to come and I get a polished version of the amount of fun I've had last weekend, I'm all for all the type of funding this game can get.

The most reaction that this cross promotion deals evoked on me is that now I want someone to buy me some gum, that Kamala emote seems cool.

 

[Boldy J. Washington]

This video's a little too caustic and elitist for my tastes, but the dude does bring up some good points. That Verizon tie-in is tacky.

 

[ephexia]

Every AAA game is a corporate cash grab but this looks particularly lifeless and dull with it's hideous cosplay-esque character models and button-mashy gameplay.

 

[Duxxy3]

I didn't really follow the game, but when I found out the title was online focused I lost interest. Lost even more when I found it was a loot game. It just wasn't what I expected or wanted out of a superhero game. It just looks like a game that was based around a business model primarily. It might be fun, but it's not my kind of game.

 

[Smoolio]

If this is what pays for free content and characters, then so be it. People forgetting that point. Personally I'd prefer a monthly sub if it meant WoW level patch content drops but I'm weird.

 

[Ploid 6.0]

I'll never play a game with monthly subs again.

You could show someone those costumes and they wouldn't know what brand if any they are supposed to represent, just like the Time Jump Avengers Endgame costumes. It's out of the character's color theme, but they are wearing them in the movie.

 

[HMD]

This is a Star Wars Battlefront II in the making. Looked horrible from day 1.

 

[DrBo42]

This is a Star Wars Battlefront II in the making. Looked horrible from day 1.

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Well that's a take, certainly.

 

[Gilver]

Avengers seems like they tried their hardest to make this game possible but in that effort to make it all work together they forgot to make a compelling video game

 

[Damaniel]

About what I would have expected. Take a so so game, load it with cosmetic microtransactions and split up content across platforms and even brand/service providers, because they know that Marvel fans will play the game no matter what just because it's a Marvel game. In a way I can't blame them for the hustle, but it's still really slimy (and I won't touch it with a ten foot pole).

 

[Smoolio]

I'll never play a game with monthly subs again.

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Most people's sentiment, I wanna say that this is why we are here but in reality we would still be here but also have a sub... Haha

 

[SageShinigami]

I would have to agree. If anyone wants a good "Marvel Avengers" game, check out Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3.

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Ok, but now I want one with an actual combo system and without the isometric camera.

 

[Ploid 6.0]

Most people's sentiment, I wanna say that this is why we are here but in reality we would still be here but also have a sub... Haha

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I just feel when I sub to multiple things I end up feeling like I need to get my money's worth. I have netflix and I haven't watched it in months, someone might get use out of it every now and then, but not often. When I played Final Fantasy XI it was interesting and all, but after taking a long break from it I realized I just put a lot of work into a character that is held hostage by a visitation fee. If I wanted to play around with the multiple maxed out jobs, very nice gear, and maybe use it as a instant messenger I gotta pay up. I could shift one of my rarely utilized subscription services around to get a month of FFXI, but I'd just be adding reasons to get locked into their ecosystem of sorts.

Even with these subscribe to play games they still want more. FFXI, FFXIV, and WOW have subscriptions, MTX, and skins to buy now on top of the expansions. FFXIV was selling the ability to skip their early missions they designed to keep people busy as they worked on expansions. They recently shortened all of that annoying busy work multiple years later because the good stuff, apparently, was right at the first expansion.

I would much rather play a game like White Knight Chronicles, or Path of Exile for my online rpg fix and have them maybe go offline. I never really cared for all of the work MMORPGs put into trying to make a huge living breathing world. It's interesting at first but then it gets tedious and everyone skip over all that work the best way they can.

 

[Sid]

Will this game have a proper story driven campaign or it is more like Destiny?

 

[emmastone]

Don't like it, don't play it. It's that simple. Every AAA developer is in the business to make money. Again, Jim mansplaining the obvious.

 

[Mandalorian]

Will this game have a proper story driven campaign or it is more like Destiny?

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The demo alone had almost two hours of story driven campaign. So I'd say yeah, we will have a story driven campaign, and I'd guess that is longer than people are realizin.

 

[Sid]

The demo alone had almost two hours of story driven campaign. So I'd say yeah, we will have a story driven campaign, and I'd guess that is longer than people are realizin.

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This seems more grind based than a story driven game

 

[DrDeckard]

Don't like it, don't play it. It's that simple. Every AAA developer is in the business to make money. Again, Jim mansplaining the obvious.

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exactly, and hopefully videos like this may reach people who weren't aware of what the game is and they can choose to ignore the money grabbing mess it's proving to be As well.

 

[Mandalorian]

This seems more grind based than a story driven game

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Yes, but the campaign seems bigger than people are realizing.

 

[Deleted member 26746]

You can shit on this game for the main characters design... or the Spiderman deal... but for the Gaas? With all the DLC being free?

If you wanna pay for a cosmetic it's on you. Also looks like the skins aren't even in loot boxes so you know what you are buying...

 

[Sid]

You can shit on this game for the main characters design... or the Spiderman deal... but for the Gaas? With all the DLC being free?

If you wanna play for a cosmetic it's on you. Also looks like the skins aren't even in loot boxes so you know what you are buying...

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ALL DLC is free?

 

[Deleted member 26746]

ALL DLC is free?

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They will monetize the skins. Any additional character with story arc they add... or new raids, will be free.

In other words... it may not have any DLC at all since all are updates... from the skins of the store to new characters.

 

[SageShinigami]

ALL DLC is free?

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The skins aren't free, no. But the stories and characters are free, yes.

 

[Parcas]

Don't like it, don't play it. It's that simple. Every AAA developer is in the business to make money. Again, Jim mansplaining the obvious.

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There is a difference between doing business and doing a predatory cash grab.

if game company A sells me X AAA game at 70$ and provides me an honest experience that is ok they make money
if game company B sells me Y AAA game at 70$ but has build the game around me spending extra money to play it every month and then hides mechanics around wasting my time so i pay more money to unlock stuff then they can fuck of.

 

[SolidChamp]

HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!

VERIZON SKINS?!

Come on now people, PLEASE do not defend this steaming pile of horse shit!

 

[emmastone]

There is a difference between doing business and doing a predatory cash grab.

if game company A sells me X AAA game at 70$ and provides me an honest experience that is ok they make money
if game company B sells me Y AAA game at 70$ but has build the game around me spending extra money to play it every month and then hides mechanics around wasting my time so i pay more money to unlock stuff then they can fuck of.

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We all know this was gonna be a GAAS from the start. If you're not expecting there to be other things you can spend money on that would be weird in my opinion. It's a big licensed game to begin with. You can play the game as it is and I think you get quite a decent bit of game for the current price and if you want to spend more money on it (for cosmetics, to speed things up, you name it) you're free to do it.

With GAAS I expect there to be free and paid 'DLC'. Just adjust your expectations (not you personally, but in general).

 

[Pyro]

Been a minute since I watch a Jim Sterling Video. He's spot on but I for one am still kinda shocked this is the direction of the game. I barely followed it after its showing at Square's E3 2019 conference because I just figured it would be single player action adventure. Then again, maybe I shouldn't be surprised.