tbh I think that disney most likely mandated that Kylo had to be redeemed and he couldn't be the big bad, I want to believe that JJ isn't so stupid to think that bringing back Palpatine for the last film was a great idea.
Quoted for TruthTLJ and TRoS were dog shit. Both damaged the OT, wish the ST wasn't made.
The top executive at Lucasfilm (his name is right there in the company logo) did have a plan for the trilogy. He said something about "Whills" and the "Force Microverse" and was talking about redeeming himself and proving everyone wrong about that much-maligned thing he once said about "Midiclorians", and then Disney pressed him out the door while saying "OK boomer."This! The root of the problem is the top executive at Lucasfilm not having a plan for a trilogy. They announced a trilogy since the beginning, they should've plan for one!
HOWEVER, There is no denying that The Last Jedi undid a lot of things that were setup for the trilogy. Whether they were good or bad is another story, but what Rian Johnson did was consciously and on propose for the sake of expectation diversion!
HOWEVER, JJ Abrams was stubborn and still wanted to do what he was planning since the beginning regardless of how much Rian Johnson had broken, and that was also a big mistake. He can blame all he wants that Rian destroyed, and in part he is right (in part because it was the job of the top executives to stop him), but he HAD to adapt to what Rian left. It didn't matter if he liked it or not.
In conclusion, both were at fault: Rian had an ego and tried to leave his mark sacrificing continuity and JJ had an ego and wanted to tell his story even though it was mostly destroyed resulting in much nonsense like the return of the Emperor.
The biggest fault, is LucasFilm for not having proper direction and leadership!
Uh no it doesn't. Literal babies are able to move things with the force in this franchise. Baby Yoda straight up choked somebody. A baby. The reason Luke struggled was because he didn't believe in himself or the force. Rey did. How did she use a mind trick? Because Kylo taught her. How did she learn to move things with the force? Because Kylo taught her. Everything she does is something explicitly shown to her first and she inadvertently follows Yoda's mantra. "Do or do not."Rey's twist in TLJ doesn't fit with her visions in TFA with the lightsaber, or explain how she just 'knows' how to use force abilities that Jedi take years training to use.
Which character in the narrative is curious about who Snoke is? For exposition to not feel like the author talking to you and revealing all of the background lore so that a wiki entry can neatly be filled out, characters themselves have to be invested in the information being given. Because those characters are surrogates for the audience. It's the difference between learning about the clone wars and Vader falling to darkness, something Luke inquired about, and, well, literally every single character backstory in Death Stranding.Snoke may as well have been a random Stormtropper for all we discover about him in TLJ, where the hell this powerful Sith Lord came from when is a rule of two would have been nice, what's with those scars on the face that look like a lightsaber slashed it, looks like a story there? Nope, he dead and you get no answers to anything.
Lucas would have just shitposted the entire ST.The top executive at Lucasfilm (his name is right there in the company logo) did have a plan for the trilogy. He said something about "Whills" and the "Force Microverse" and was talking about redeeming himself and proving everyone wrong about that much-maligned thing he once said about "Midiclorians", and then Disney pressed him out the door while saying "OK boomer."
And then we got Rise of Skywalker.
The top executive at Lucasfilm (his name is right there in the company logo) did have a plan for the trilogy. He said something about "Whills" and the "Force Microverse" and was talking about redeeming himself and proving everyone wrong about that much-maligned thing he once said about "Midiclorians", and then Disney pressed him out the door while saying "OK boomer."
And then we got Rise of Skywalker.
TLJ and TRoS were dog shit. Both damaged the OT, wish the ST wasn't made.
if he directed and wrote it himself yeah. If he was able to delegate those duties like he did for the OT and Clone Wars I would've been fine.
I absolutely love The Last Jedi, but with 1 out of 3, the ST we got is pretty lame.The top executive at Lucasfilm (his name is right there in the company logo) did have a plan for the trilogy. He said something about "Whills" and the "Force Microverse" and was talking about redeeming himself and proving everyone wrong about that much-maligned thing he once said about "Midiclorians", and then Disney pressed him out the door while saying "OK boomer."
And then we got Rise of Skywalker.
Yes, but it would have been planned garbage. It would've had some sense of consistency.
At least a general overall idea that every director had to follow. This make it up Completely as you go is why I dislike the latest trilogyThey should've just have written the whole trilogy before they started to shoot.
Would it though? The PT was the most "planned out" trilogy out of the three and managed to be the most incoherent.Yes, but it would have been planned garbage. It would've had some sense of consistency.
The top executive at Lucasfilm (his name is right there in the company logo) did have a plan for the trilogy. He said something about "Whills" and the "Force Microverse" and was talking about redeeming himself and proving everyone wrong about that much-maligned thing he once said about "Midiclorians", and then Disney pressed him out the door while saying "OK boomer."
And then we got Rise of Skywalker.
The only way TLJ undoes stuff in TFA is if you wanted a film as woefully derivative as TROS was. TLJ not answering the fan theories crafted over two years with the "right" answers always seems to be the "flaw" at the end of the day. RJ got SW because SW has always been at it's best when it's not predictable. No one expected Empire Strikes Back's plotline and reveals. No one expected TLJ. The best part of ROTJ is the part that they didn't advertise, i.e., the part where Luke redeems Vader compared to us knowing about bikini Leia and rescuing Han. And arguably the best bit of TROS is the force dyad as everyone expected that the door would be closed, now that Kylo and Rey could literally fight across time and space.TLJ feels the most Lucas-y of all the movies to me, with the humour and the weird aliens (in a good way). The deleted scene with the island nuns partying particularly feels very Lucas to me.
The things The Last Jedi "undid" were some of TFA's biggest flaws, though. Like how TFA set up the expectation that Rey's parentage would be a big reveal, because in Star Wars everybody is secretly related to someone. TLJ masterfully played with defying that audience expectation and said, no, the Force is bigger than that, this universe is bigger than that, Rey's not special just because of who she's related to. And then TROS was all, "nope! It's not and she is."
Yep. And I like Johnson's other works. He isn't completely to blame. He was in over his head. He's better with low budget character pieces. Sw was a bit too much for himNot Johnson's fault even if you believe this guy. The top brass at Lucasfilm needed to have coherent vision of the whole arc and they clearly did not.
So glad I've avoided every Star Wars movie after the prequel trilogy.
I used to be in the 'LFL screwed up by not planning ahead' camp, but having recently rewatched TFA and TLJ... honestly, a great Episode IX was still very much possible. There's a ton of promising unresolved stuff left to riff on, and the characters are still interesting and fun. I also don't think TLJ feels all that inconsistent with TFA, except maybe in the vague sense that it rightly abandons a few threads that were going nowhere. But it creates plenty of new ones, chief among them Kylo's rise as supreme leader and the 'democratization' of the Force.
Exactly. I remember thinking that after seeing TLJ: "Oh that's what The Force Awakens must mean! That's kind of genius!" Very disappointing how that turned out, perhaps my single biggest gripe with TROS.This, so much this.
Regarding the bolded: I kept on expecting this to become the theme of the new trilogy, and TLJ was even teeing it up, but it just never happened. Like, the title of the first installment even sets up that expectation! "The Force Awakens" makes it sound like something new is happening in the Force. The title was not The Force Is Awakening In This One Specific Person Who Is Secretly Related To Known Force-User Palpatine.
So glad I've avoided every Star Wars movie after the prequel trilogy.
Can we just agree that the entire trilogy was a waste of time and move on?
who vehemently worships ME3? That game is far more weighted to everyone bashing it.I always said TLJ was the ME3 of the star wars movies. It's so polarising that whatever discussion around it's strength and weaknesses will devolve into either militant bashing or verhmently worshipping it.
Can we just agree that the entire trilogy was a waste of time and move on?
Uh no it doesn't. Literal babies are able to move things with the force in this franchise. Baby Yoda straight up choked somebody. A baby. The reason Luke struggled was because he didn't believe in himself or the force. Rey did. How did she use a mind trick? Because Kylo taught her. How did she learn to move things with the force? Because Kylo taught her. Everything she does is something explicitly shown to her first and she inadvertently follows Yoda's mantra. "Do or do not."
Which character in the narrative is curious about who Snoke is? For exposition to not feel like the author talking to you and revealing all of the background lore so that a wiki entry can neatly be filled out, characters themselves have to be invested in the information being given. Because those characters are surrogates for the audience. It's the difference between learning about the clone wars and Vader falling to darkness, something Luke inquired about, and, well, literally every single character backstory in Death Stranding.
Second, this trilogy was about Kylo. Kylo was more interesting than Snoke based on the premise of his character alone. RJ knew that. Hence we learn way more about Kylo over the course of two films then we ever did Vader, Yoda, the emperor, combined.
No
Can we just agree that the entire trilogy was a waste of time and move on?
Totally agree. TLJ was garbage. Rise of Skywalker wasn't any better but TLJ threw all of Force Awakens' setups and mysteries in the trash.
Well the multiplayer is A+, so it has my axe on that.who vehemently worships ME3? That game is far more weighted to everyone bashing it.
but yes as a whole I don't like the trilogy and don't care to see anything from it ever again. If they tried to do something set atfer TROS I know that the second I hear the words Rey Skywalker again I'm gonna quit.
Okay, so maybe "undoing" is a wrong way to put it, but I feel like TLJ has very contrarian and pretentious attitude towards it's predecessor that kinda rubs me in the wrong way. In a way it feels like a teenager calling his younger brother a twerp for watching Power Rangers or something.So at no point did he undo anything. None of those are things being undone.
Okay, so maybe "undoing" is a wrong way to put it, but I feel like TLJ has very contrarian and pretentious attitude towards it's predecessor that kinda rubs me in the wrong way. In a way it feels like a teenager calling his younger brother a twerp for watching Power Rangers or something.
"Enough of this kiddy shit, It's time to put big boy pants and talk about Military Industrial Complex, animal abuse, classism and dozen other things!" says the movie, while being completely disinterested in any mythological aspects of the franchise, and treating setups from TFA as something it has to deal with out of obligation. And I know that lots of people like it particulary because of that atitude, but for me TLJ feels kinda ashamed about being about space wizards with laser swords, and in particular ashamed about being a sequel to TFA.
Okay, so maybe "undoing" is a wrong way to put it, but I feel like TLJ has very contrarian and pretentious attitude towards it's predecessor that kinda rubs me in the wrong way. In a way it feels like a teenager calling his younger brother a twerp for watching Power Rangers or something.
"Enough of this kiddy shit, It's time to put big boy pants and talk about Military Industrial Complex, animal abuse, classism and dozen other things!" says the movie, while being completely disinterested in any mythological aspects of the franchise, and treating setups from TFA as something it has to deal with out of obligation. And I know that lots of people like it particulary because of that atitude, but for me TLJ feels kinda ashamed about being about space wizards with laser swords, and in particular ashamed about being a sequel to TFA.