Joe Biden forcefully spoke out against school desegregation plan in 1975

Bob Beat · Mar 8, 2019

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...m=.8217302f437c#click=https://t.co/cmekCjPI9Y

When Joe Biden was a freshman senator in the mid-1970s, his home state of Delaware, like other hotspots across the country, was engulfed in a bitter battle over school busing, debating whether children should be sent to schools in different neighborhoods to promote racial diversity.

Biden took a lead role in the fight, speaking out repeatedly and forcefully against sending white children to majority-black schools and black children to majority-white schools. He played down the persistence of overt racism and suggested that the government should have a limited role in integration.

"I do not buy the concept, popular in the '60s, which said, 'We have suppressed the black man for 300 years and the white man is now far ahead in the race for everything our society offers. In order to even the score, we must now give the black man a head start, or even hold the white man back, to even the race,' " Biden told a Delaware-based weekly newspaper in 1975. "I don't buy that."

In language that bears on today's debate about whether descendants of slaves should be compensated, he added, "I don't feel responsible for the sins of my father and grandfather. I feel responsible for what the situation is today, for the sins of my own generation. And I'll be damned if I feel responsible to pay for what happened 300 years ago."

I guess we know where he stood. I like Biden and I suspect he's changed his positions. But I'm not encouraged he's moved from a centrist position in many aspects.

I'm not sure how I feel about reparations. But reparations are an opportunity for politicians to communicate with the world. And this communication from the 70s really is a bad look for someone interested in the Democratic nomination in 2020. I also don't believe time gives you immunity. And with his actions in the past, including the Anita Hill hearings, I'm really over Biden.

m_shortpants · Mar 8, 2019

He should not be running for President. his time has long passed.

scare_crow · Mar 8, 2019

Certainly a bad look, yes. But your sentence stuck out to me. "And this communication from the 70s really is a bad look for someone interested in the Democratic nomination in 2020." That's 50 years. I don't know the answer to when people should be given a chance to change and when they shouldn't (truly, I'm not trying to hedge), but is decades enough? I don't know.

"He should not be running for President. his time has long passed."

That I do agree with.

scottbeowulf · Mar 8, 2019

Biden has said so many bad things over the years, plus he still has issues fumbling over his words, there's no way in hell he would get far at all running for president. Not to mention his creepy, overly touchy grandpa kinda vibe. His time is done and he needs to stay away from the election.

Olaf · Mar 8, 2019

How do black people feel about reparations? Difficult for me to comment as an outsider.

Hollywood Duo · Mar 8, 2019

He has the political baggage you'd expect for someone who has been in politics for like 40 years.

Inuhanyou · Mar 8, 2019

Anita hill should kill biden's aspirations on its own. Even disregarding being a neoliberal, even if he had super progressive views, taking the piss on anita hill is just a dealbreaker IMO

RolandGunner · Mar 8, 2019

Biden and Jesse Helms led the effort to minimize busing. Says it all really.

Meatfist · Mar 8, 2019

I like Biden overall and think his views have probably changed since then, but this is just further indication that a old white centrist dude is not what the Democratic Party needs right now

Nepenthe · Mar 8, 2019

The sins of the father are continually maintained by the sons, Mr. Biden.

Bob Beat · Mar 8, 2019

scare_crow said:
Certainly a bad look, yes. But your sentence stuck out to me. "And this communication from the 70s really is a bad look for someone interested in the Democratic nomination in 2020." That's 50 years. I don't know the answer to when people should be given a chance to change and when they shouldn't (truly, I'm not trying to hedge), but is decades enough? I don't know.

"He should not be running for President. his time has long passed."

That I do agree with.

He probably has changed but we can still question it. It's his foundation. It'll help inform him. And, usually, forgiveness requires being open and honest. I'm suspecting this story is news for many, if not all people here. He can change but no one should expect complete forgiveness without fully knowing. Compared to other candidates, these incidents leaves him lacking.

ezrarh · Mar 8, 2019

I was hoping he'd have a better reason that what's been posted. The way we approached school desegregation ended up with black teachers losing their jobs since it was a lot of black schools that were shut down. At this point I'd rather not elect anyone from the Biden time period.

Squarehard · Mar 8, 2019

I think there was already a thread about this yesterday, or maybe the day before.

The title was something about this that was problematic to his bid in 2020.

Bob Beat · Mar 8, 2019

Squarehard said:
I think there was already a thread about this yesterday, or maybe the day before.

The title was something about this that was problematic to his bid in 2020.

I searched for Biden in thread titles. Didn't see it, going back to Oct 2018.

Manmademan · Mar 8, 2019

Olaf said:
How do black people feel about reparations? Difficult for me to comment as an outsider.

Something should probably be done (there are still very real and tangible products of institutional racism that still exist) but asking "how do you define black people to begin with" illustrates that this is a wildly complex project with no easy answers that will result in a lot of hurt feelings and inflammatory rhetoric no matter what you do.

Dream Machine · Mar 8, 2019

Still unsure of why people like Biden beyond the "Barack's fun bro" memes

His views are stuck in the 90's at best, and he's not even a good politician. People who are horrified about dems not saying things the right way shoudl get ready to start rending their garments in despair the second he's in the debates and making comments

Narasumas · Mar 8, 2019

Reparations are a horrible idea. There's no good way to implement them. And who's to say what is the justifiable amount? It would ultimately create more issues than it solves.

Dark Knight · Mar 8, 2019

Hard pass on Biden. It's bizarre to me how he apparently appeals to so many.

KtotheRoc · Mar 8, 2019

Biden's made a lot of problematic statements over the years. I know his strong association to Obama would help him quite a bit, but some of his own actions would outright turn a lot of people away.

Jombie · Mar 8, 2019

Biden is far from the pure evil that permeates the republican party, but he has a rotten history that just can't be overlooked.

firstromario · Mar 8, 2019

Nooooooooooooo! Biden is my only hope! He would have destroyed Trump. Not sure if there's any other candidate that has as good of a chance of winning a Biden.

I guess the only candidate who has a chance of winning that I don't dislike yet is Kamala Harris... And maybe Booker? (Not sure how Booker's chances of winning are looking)

Z-Beat · Mar 8, 2019

m_shortpants said:
He should not be running for President. his time has long passed.

He's just been...Biden his time

I'll show myself out

Kirblar · Mar 8, 2019

Squarehard said:
I think there was already a thread about this yesterday, or maybe the day before.

The title was something about this that was problematic to his bid in 2020.

It was posted in the 2020 thread and USPolitics and generated a lot of discussion in those places.

jviggy43 · Mar 8, 2019

Yeah no thanks to Biden. He can stay far away

Manmademan · Mar 8, 2019

Dream Machine said:
Still unsure of why people like Biden beyond the "Barack's fun bro" memes

His views are stuck in the 90's at best, and he's not even a good politician. People who are horrified about dems not saying things the right way shoudl get ready to start rending their garments in despair the second he's in the debates and making comments

Biden isn't liked for his policies, because there largely aren't any. He was a senator forever but no one can really tell you what his legislative record is.

It's all name recognition and associations with "better" times under the obama administration. I can't see this carrying him very far when debates start.

Squarehard · Mar 8, 2019

Kirblar said:
It was posted in the 2020 thread and USPolitics and generated a lot of discussion in those places.

I think it might have been collapsed into that thread, no? I know the way the thread title was framed, that it seems like that could've happened since it wasn't a big thread either.

I remember the thread distinctly though, because the title was so long, and more about hurting his presidential bid, than was about the actual story itself.

Mammoth Jones · Mar 8, 2019

scare_crow said:
Certainly a bad look, yes. But your sentence stuck out to me. "And this communication from the 70s really is a bad look for someone interested in the Democratic nomination in 2020." That's 50 years. I don't know the answer to when people should be given a chance to change and when they shouldn't (truly, I'm not trying to hedge), but is decades enough? I don't know.

"He should not be running for President. his time has long passed."

That I do agree with.

His track record should be scrutinized. All of it. And context should be applied. Whether that helps or hurts his run is irrelevant to me as a voter that wants to know who I'm voting for.

That being said, if he wins the nomination there's no choice for me. I'll vote for crazy, did-some-shitty-things-in-the-past Joe

Madison · Mar 8, 2019

Manmademan said:
Biden isn't liked for his policies, because there largely aren't any. He was a senator forever but no one can really tell you what his legislative record is.

It's all name recognition and associations with "better" times under the obama administration. I can't see this carrying him very far when debates start.

He will tank and tank hard when he is forced to open his mouth and explain what his policies are. Anyone else (Harris, Sanders, Warren) will trounce him on the debates.

scare_crow · Mar 8, 2019

Bob Beat said:
He probably has changed but we can still question it. It's his foundation. It'll help inform him. And, usually, forgiveness requires being open and honest. I'm suspecting this story is news for many, if not all people here. He can change but no one should expect complete forgiveness without fully knowing. Compared to other candidates, these incidents leaves him lacking.

I think you said it very well. I agree. Good points.

Damaniel · Mar 8, 2019

I don't have any problem with him as a person, but he's a product of his time - a time that's long passed. He should just stay out of the race.

shnurgleton · Mar 8, 2019

people crying for a moderate dem have their champion

fyi moderates are garb

Somni · Mar 8, 2019

Olaf said:
How do black people feel about reparations? Difficult for me to comment as an outsider.

The logistics would be an absolute nightmare, and would only serve to undo the social fabric.

Big Baybee · Mar 8, 2019

Olaf said:
How do black people feel about reparations? Difficult for me to comment as an outsider.

I mean, Jim Crow was going on until like the 70s, not to mention the redlining, not getting loans for our businesses, criminal Justice, etc that is still in full effect today.

Thatonedice1 · Mar 8, 2019

Olaf said:
How do black people feel about reparations? Difficult for me to comment as an outsider.

Depends on who you ask really. My family besides my dad is generally in favor of them.

Cybit · Mar 8, 2019

Dream Machine said:
Still unsure of why people like Biden beyond the "Barack's fun bro" memes

His views are stuck in the 90's at best, and he's not even a good politician. People who are horrified about dems not saying things the right way shoudl get ready to start rending their garments in despair the second he's in the debates and making comments

If he were stuck in the 90s; he would have been for a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage (which was about |-| close from happening prior to DOMA). People do not remember the 90s here, I see. Or the 80s.

Nepenthe said:
The sins of the father are continually maintained by the sons, Mr. Biden.

I don't think you meant it that way, but holy shit that's a fucked up thing to say about Biden of all people.

LosDaddie · Mar 8, 2019

Biden is simply an awful candidate. Obama was the best thing to happen for his otherwise unremarkable career.

This is just another reason.

Dream Machine · Mar 8, 2019

Cybit said:
If he were stuck in the 90s; he would have been for a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage (which was about |-| close from happening prior to DOMA). People do not remember the 90s here, I see. Or the 80s.

I don't think you meant it that way, but holy shit that's a fucked up thing to say about Biden of all people.

Wow, he didn't vote to ban gay marriage? I take back everything I said. We forgive you, king.

Brinbe · Mar 8, 2019

Even if that was the 1970s it's disqualifying by itself, but dude has been involved in politics for 50-plus years, his time is over! Him and every single boomer Pol needs to seriously GTFO

Cybit · Mar 8, 2019

Dream Machine said:
Wow, he didn't vote to ban gay marriage? I take back everything I said. We forgive you, king.

A reminder of what it was like just 30 years ago.

http://www.norc.org/NewsEventsPubli...n-acceptance-of-homosexuality-gss-report.aspx

The rise in support for same-sex marriage has been especially dramatic over the last two decades. It went from 11 percent approval in 1988 to 46 percent in 2010, compared to 40 percent who were opposed, producing a narrow plurality in favor for the first time. The report is based on findings of the latest General Social Survey, conducted in 2010 with a cross sample of more than 2,000 people.

Dream Machine · Mar 8, 2019

Cybit said:
A reminder of what it was like just 30 years ago.

http://www.norc.org/NewsEventsPubli...n-acceptance-of-homosexuality-gss-report.aspx

Is your point that Biden is a good candidate for today, or that he was progressive in the 90's, or that he has one good thing in his 40 year voting history? Not voting to ban gay marriage is the bare minimum, and I'm not really sure what your point in bringing it up is

My stuck in the 90's comment was more about how he """"jokingly"""" loves republicans and thinks being an American centrist (really center right to most of the world) is a good path forward after it has failed us for decades. His time has passed, and his second hand Obama charm won't carry him farther than an Onion headline

Dreams-Visions · Mar 8, 2019

Sounds like a lot of years for him to have evolved. Let's hope he has.

CitizenVectron · Mar 8, 2019

Biden is incredibly popular in the black community, and is seen as a continuation of Obama. This is why this attack on him is really about generating white outrage on behalf of black people. Ask black people if they care about this issue from 50 years ago and if it changes their view of Biden now. Hint - it doesn't.

Sordid Plebeian · Mar 8, 2019

Yikes, bet he loves the idea of reparations

Seesaw15 · Mar 8, 2019

2020 run is going to be a mess. All the purity tests will eat the dems alive.

Bob Beat · Mar 8, 2019

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/e..._democratic_presidential_nomination-6730.html

Biden has generally led polls for the Democratic nomination. It's early but yeah.

Ziltoidia 9 · Mar 8, 2019

I'm sure he has evolved on that issue, but it does show his judgement could be flawed when it comes to current/unknown issues.

With that said, he is a MAJOR reason for the shift the country made when it came to gay marriage, so that shows he is probably much more liberal on social issue than he was. Hopeful it is across the board.

It's ironic though because he told millennials to "give him a break" because he grew up fighting in the civil rights era.

His quote:

"The younger generation now tells me how tough things are. Give me a break. No, no, I have no empathy for it. Give me a break. Because here's the deal guys, we decided we were gonna change the world. And we did. We did. We finished the civil rights movement in the first stage. The women's movement came to be. So my message is, get involved. There's no place to hide. You can go and you can make all the money in the world, but you can't build a wall high enough to keep the pollution out. You can't live where—you can't not be diminished when your sister can't marry the man or woman, or the woman she loves. You can't—when you have a good friend being profiled, you can't escape this stuff. And so, there's an old expression my philosophy professor would always use from Plato, 'The penalty people face for not being involved in politics is being governed by people worse than themselves.' It's wide open. Go out and change it."

SeeingeyeDug · Mar 8, 2019

scottbeowulf said:
Biden has said so many bad things over the years, plus he still has issues fumbling over his words, there's no way in hell he would get far at all running for president. Not to mention his creepy, overly touchy grandpa kinda vibe. His time is done and he needs to stay away from the election.

Yeah I just can't see someone who inarticulately fumbles over words and gets handsy with women winning the presidency. It just can't happen in our climate of extreme vetting that each American voter performs before they make their incredibly well informed and thought out vote. /s

Tuorom · Mar 8, 2019

Narasumas said:
Reparations are a horrible idea. There's no good way to implement them. And who's to say what is the justifiable amount? It would ultimately create more issues than it solves.

The best reparation would be to accept the inequality and racism still present today and take action to address it. You're right, just throwing money at problems won't solve anything.

Trojita · Mar 8, 2019

The article really needs to explain more about specifically what he was talking about. He was not talking about being against desegregation, he was talking about being against the controversial bussing system. There was a user on here that discussed his experience as a child being put in this program and how he thinks it affected his education. Instead of improving predominantly black schools, kids got put into a lottery where some white kids were sent to a school that was never improved and some black children were sent to a school with better facilities but endured prejudice.

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/...-schools-busing-program-called-racist-concept
Biden clarified his position, per the Post: "It is true that the white man has suppressed the black man, and continues to suppress the black man. It is harder to be black than to be white. But you have to open up avenues for blacks without closing avenues for whites; you don't hold society back to let one segment catch up. You put more money into the black schools for remedial reading programs, you upgrade facilities, you upgrade opportunities, open up housing patterns. You give everybody a piece of the action."

Nepenthe · Mar 8, 2019

Cybit said:
I don't think you meant it that way, but holy shit that's a fucked up thing to say about Biden of all people.

I don't know if you're implying I'm making a dig about any specifics about the man's life. I don't deeply know his biography beyond some basic facts about his overall political service and the tragedy of his son Beau.

I do know, however, that he is a white man that has inevitably benefited from the systems of white supremacy that his fathers, and their fathers, and their fathers' fathers, and so on, have maintained for centuries, and that- in order for white folks to consider themselves truly allied with the cause of eliminating white supremacy- they need to come to terms with the fact that these systems have always been in perpetuation, and they need to shed the ego that prevents them from wanting to do anything about it because they presume we actually think they're slave owners.

That sentiment from back then of "I will be damned if I'm responsible for what my father did" is half the reason why America has done fuck all to truly make actionable changes on these issues. Y'all keep passing the buck.

Joe Biden forcefully spoke out against school desegregation plan in 1975

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