I had a small discussion with Bossking regarding that, but it's a mixture of 2020 pessimism and low confidence on western societies to take care of our own shit.
Kinda Funny: "Please vote for Joe Biden."
- Thread starter ZeoVGM
- Start date
there absolutely *are* things to fear from a biden presidency
like what absolute nonsense is this
there is a difference between things being better and them being perfect. if you can't see that you probably come from a place of extreme privilege
I would admit I'd have a hard time believing an actual anarchist running 15 homeless shelters, but yes, that would of course be fantastic!
How can I be politically apathetic and also "actively"" look forward to more Trump?
OP
OP
He wasn't able to list any when he was asked, instead showing he didn't know what he was talking about.
Perhaps you can list them?
We are talking about a person who is "leaning" towards voting for Biden. Come on, you know what was happening there.
i don't care about that person's motives, but trying to dismiss people with that level of hyperbole is ridiculous and stupid
OP
OP
No. If someone's motives are disingenuous, they should absolutely be dismissed.
Of course, you're ignoring the fact that he wasn't able to answer any of the legitimate questions he was asked -- which is what led to him being dismissed. People tried to understand him. He wasn't meeting anyone halfway and his answers actually showed he didn't know what he was talking about.
I'll ask again:
Can you please go over those things?
The absolute inanity and ignorance of people that could look at the list of Trump's transgressions and still claim "both sides" and whataboutism is staggering.
https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/the-complete-listing-so-far-atrocities-1-889
https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/the-complete-listing-so-far-atrocities-1-889
you can dismiss someone, but you don;t need to make shit up to do it
the refusal to abolish ICE?
incremental increases to a health care system that still bankrupts thousands and leaves people without adequate care?
a ticket with a president and vice president with a history of strong incarceration policies?
a million, billion other things?
like what do you think will happen if biden is elected, everything is going to become perfect?
"things might not get significantly better, but they're not going to get worse, so there is nothing to fear" is absolute tiny baby brain thinking
This is good stuff. All celebrities & media involved need to be stepping in by calling out Trump's bullshit daily.
OP
OP
All three things you said here are valid discussions to have.
The poster you're defending said he is scared of Biden hurting the economy by raising taxes.
There is a clear and obvious difference between what you just answered with and what he answered with.
Absolutely no one is implying that. You jumped into a conversation to defend a specific person who was being disingenuous in his "opinions."
*you* are implying that by saying there is nothing to fear from a biden presidency
OP
OP
No, I'm not.
Not having anything to be scared of does not equal perfection. You know that.
OP
OP
I mean I'm uk so cant vote but there are a lot of things wrong with Biden, it should have been Bernie, but given the choice you have right now in the US.... Please vote for Biden.
Saying that, I find some of the tweets saying Trump voters aren't wanted as fans to be a bit... hypocritical, is it not the fact that we are, as people, better than trump and should take the high road rather than that? We should be setting the example rather than simply palming people away?
Saying that, I find some of the tweets saying Trump voters aren't wanted as fans to be a bit... hypocritical, is it not the fact that we are, as people, better than trump and should take the high road rather than that? We should be setting the example rather than simply palming people away?
Taking the high road means nothing when the other side just keeps digging deeper.
If you support Trump you are either a racist or support the cruelty and racism. There is no reason anyone should be ok with what he's doing and if you support him, you are quite frankly a horrible person.
Trump supporters expect tolerance of their intolerance and other people should do what? They've had 4 years to wake up. We aren't holding their hands anymore.
I know you said you're in the UK, but I feel like I have to ask you what planet you're on anyway.
People who want to kill everyone else at the table don't get a seat at the fucking table. We fight this hateful ideology by making it extremely clear, that in no uncertain terms are they ever welcome in any social setting. Fascists and white nationalists should be discarded and shunned every day, from the moment they wake up. We don't need to pretend that we're not better than them. We are better than them. They're trash and they should feel trash.
it's not an argument for not voting for biden or being pro-trump, but ignoring a candidate's issues is not helpful?
Is it really to the point where everyone voting trump is a fascist? If so fair enough.
If you vote for Trump, you are accepting fascism. Simple as that.
Accepting fascism = being fascist. It is the same reason why if are friends with a nazi then you are by definition a nazi too
You clearly do, as you're jumping into a conversation between two people that had particular context and had already resolved itself, and are trying to remove all that context just to insert yourself anyway.
It was a conversation between particular people.
With particular context.
That had already resolved.
That despite already resolving, you're now trying to self-insert yourself and pretend a completely different conversation occurred than the one that did.
Yeah, what you're saying might be true as a hypothetical.
But it doesn't apply to the specific conversation between specific people which had already resolved, so why not just bring it up but try to rewrite what happened like you are on top of it?
You clearly do care and want to pretend something different happened than what did, are are doing all this despite it being over and having nothing to do with anything and not being necessary.
Stop. It was already over. Why insert yourself? Why do any of this? That you're doing so regardless of whatever the reasons may be, that clearly do suggest you do care at least to say me extent or else there's be no reason to jump into a conversation that's already over, so yeah, I can't agree with you here.
Especially considering the subject of discussion to begin with.
That yes, there may be worries with Biden. But whatever they may be the worries with Trump are magnified 100 fold.
200k people died from coronavirus on Trump:s watch, not Biden's.
Trump is in he one who appointed someone who's trying to dismantle the USPS.
Trump is the one making huge changes to the CDC and the FDA in the middle of a pandemic to undermine trust in them/use them for his political gain.
Trump further before that completely dismantled the EPA on so many levels, even removing restrictions on asbestos and mercury of all things. And of course this is without even touching on climate change, which he barred government facilities from even using the term climate change.
Economy? Wreck due to coronavirus pandemic and Trump's bumpling of it at every turn, with many thousands of PERMANENT JOB LOSSES already due to that. And even before that, there was the Trump/GOP taxcut, which did absolutely nothing for the economy and was a handout for the rich and due to stuff like that we were heading for a recession even before the pandemic.
Racism? Trump was being openly racist not like 40 years ago,bnut just at his rallies what, two nights ago now against Rep. Omar? And then there were the leaked racist comments he made about both blacks and Jews that was news a few days ago, on top of all the racist stuff Trump has said ever since he announced his Presidency itself on racism itself, accusing Mexico of sending their rapists and criminals and worst during his announcement speech.
Attacks on the press? Again, over his rallies the few past days alone he's multiple times applauded an MSNBC journalist being attacked, commenting on it positively.
Healthcare? He's to this day, right now, attempting to use the courts to remove people's healthcare with no replacement plan (and the nonsense he pulled yesterday is something that's simultaneously pointless because of Obamacare already covering pre-existing conditions and worthless without it, which, again, he's trying to do, and without the ACA, his order would become worthless and do nothing because it can't do anything without the ACA to back it up.)
Troops? He had non-stop feuds with John McCain, he insulted Gold Star families, he dodged the draft, and it was a news story like last week that he doesn't get why anyone would respect "losers" who die in war and other such derogatory remarks of veterans.
LGBT rights? Due to him, transgender individuals can't serve in the military.
Going back to racism, he's constantly stoking that in recent weeks by trying to scare people about how "they'll" come to the suburbs and lower property values and do all kinds of bad, horrible things, in a dogwhistle that's so loud it ain't even funny.
There's all the changes he's made to immigration/asylum to make their lives as hard as possible, reducing and making the immigration process as hard as possible, not to mention the abuse at the hands of ICE many of these people received, forced deportations, or like stuff like the recent news about the apparently unlicensed doctor who performed forced hysterectomies on women.
Going back to economy, there were so many plants that Trump promised he'd protect, not let close, not let move to Mexico, things like that. Spoiler: many did anyway.
Going back to racism again, there's also how its incredibly recent that Trump had Attorney General William Barr declare cities like NYC anarchy cities. Then there's how he was sending his goon squads to cities like Portland and the like against their wishes to deliberately stir up racial tensions/make protests worse.
The Supreme Court and who they would each put on it? Trump put Kavanaugh on it. And yes, In very aware of Biden and Clarence Thomas. But Biden apologized and grew from that (and also importantly, in the actual vote itself,voted AGAINST confirming Justice Thomas). Trump has done no such thing with Kavanaugh and to this day insists he was unfairly treated when it gets brought up.
And then there's y'know how both Trump and Mike Pence are pretty much flat-out saying they're going to try and use the Supreme Court and the fact that there's a vacancy to steal the election, nevermind Trump also refusing to commit to a peaceful transition of power of all things and just saying "we'll see what happens" instead to a question like that.
Corruption? Just look at how many people connected to Trump have been convicted of crimes. Top officials and associates. Not "coffee boys" but big names, over and over again like Michael Cohen, Paul Manafort, Michael Flynn, Rick Gates, Roger Stone, George Papadopoulos, among others. And then there's the matter of Trump hiding his tax returns, almost certainly being corrupt himself, like by having his daughter Ivanka and son-in-law Jared Kushner both essentially having positions in his administration while helping to manage Trump's company as well, a huge violation of the Emoluments Clause. Then there's also not to mention all the Hatch act violations, including from both Ivanka and Trump himself as well, losing and using the White House/their office to promote brand products, the definition of a Hatch act violation.
And so forth.
And so forth.
And so forth.
Like, it's one thing to have concerns about Biden because indeed, of course there's things to be concerned about.
But no matter what concerns one may have about Joe Biden, Trump's guaranteed to have done something 100x worse for any given thing one may be concerned about and almost guaranteed to have done it incredibly recently as well.
So even if one had concerns about Biden to nonetheless not instantly be concerned by Trump 200x more all the same, even if you have concerns about Biden, is incredibly bizarre, nonsensical and suspicious.
Because yeah, of course there's stuff to be concerned about when it comes toBiden. No duh.
But if you have any particular concern, Trump's practically guaranteed to have exceeded Biden in that area a hundredfold.
Andso, it only follows, even if one has hypothetical concerns about Biden, that in thst particular case they'd be even MORE concerned by Trump as to think any other way makes no sense given their respective histories.
THAT'S the context of the conversation you were missing despite wandering into it anyway despite it already being resolved and not concerning you at all and why you're making no sense here.
Because not only was that convo over, not only was there no reason to rehash it, but the whole point is, especially given all Trump's said and done the last few days alone, that even if one had concerns about Biden, if that's genuinely the case, for the same reason you'd be concerned about Biden it would only follows you'd be even MORE concerned about Trump tines 100 for the same reasons, given those events, and that particular poster did not seem to demonstrate that, which naturally makes no sense and made them really suspicious and something seem off, which is what that conversation is based on and either context you somehow either missed or are pretending to have missed or whatever, which is why you're coming off looking bad for insisting on trying to both continue it and rewrite what happened.
It's not about having concerns about Biden being wrong or against the rules. It's about a particular poster in a particular conversation applying inconsistent STANDARDS which is what that was all about, holding Biden and Trump to two completely different standards and expectations.
Having concerns about Biden is one thing.
Holding Biden and Trump to two completely different standards is quite another.
That's what that's all about, that's the context you either somehow missed or are deliberately ignoring for some reason or whatever, but that's what happened in that conversation, so I hope that helps in one way or another.
I have no idea how most of the Trump supporters could vote Trump in 2020. Some who might want their privileges I can understand, but most are actively voting against their own interests. How can people be this ignorant? It's so depressing.
Of course not, however, they're entirely willing to turn a blind eye to and support a fascists agenda, for whatever reasons, which I would honestly say is worse in some ways.
Same phenomena can be seen all over the world. People are so angry at a specific issue that they will vote politicians that actively try to hurt them. It's the mentality that I don't care if I suffer as long as that different person suffers more than me
It is not absolutely not the time to be going at Biden right now, our democracy depends on him winning. Millions of lives depend on him winning. We can (and should) work to push Biden to the left as much as possible once the election is over.
But the very existence of this country as a democracy and the literal lives of MILLIONS depends on Biden winning. That is all that matters in this moment.
This moment in time in this election is an existential crisis of good vs. evil. We all need to do everything possible to help elect Joe Biden.
Well, I guess they are - seriously - misinformed. If the only news you feed yourself with is that coming from Trump supporting news feeds (be it social media or TV or st. else), it's possible to be this ignorant I guess.
But that over 40% of Americans is still - after 4 years of disgusting Trump reign - this ignorant, is really baffling to me.
Something is seriously wrong.
Either you want the racist wannabe dictator to turn the country fully over to facism or you don't. There is no other option in this election.
If you do not want a fascist regime you are voting Joe Biden, full stop.
The amount of people here who say they're voting 3rd party or are not voting because you dislike Biden... Why?
You live in a country with a 2 party system, a 3rd party is just a smug throwaway. And not voting because Biden has issues or you wanted it to be someone else, is actively handing the election to Trump.
3rd parties split the left, not the right.
You live in a country with a 2 party system, a 3rd party is just a smug throwaway. And not voting because Biden has issues or you wanted it to be someone else, is actively handing the election to Trump.
3rd parties split the left, not the right.
The guy has a lot of oddities in a democracy, such as believing only a certain subsect of the population is fully capable of earning a living (coincidentally, his section of population), an ingrained disdain for anything that gives disadvantaged people a fighting chance, a looove for the status quo and for a past golden age... maybe fascism offends the ears, but authoritarian SoB with a racist streak and a a dash of xenophobia maybe makes it more pallatable?
If you're consciously voting for the guy who won't commit to a peaceful transfer of power, then yeah, the F word is absolutely applicable.
Last edited:
At this point, yes. Trump has spread conspiracy theories about mail-in ballots in an attempt to discredit them, spread doubt and fear, and allege they shouldn't count (unless they're for him despite the double standard) countless times.
He also installed a lackey in the USPS, the equivalent of your Royal Post, to try and deliberately sabotage it in a number of ways to try and cause damage that would be advantageous to him.
In addition, there's a vacancy in the Supreme Court of the United States, our highest court, that both Trump and his Vice President Mike Pence have pretty much openly admitted that their trying to fill the vacancy in said Court at breakneck speed to tilt the balance of the Court in such a way that he can try and rely on them to help him get re-elected no matter what the results of the election are. Like, they're not even hiding it, they are openly saying these kind of things.
Trump was also very recently asked if he'd commit to a peaceful transition of power of he loses in the election, refusing to answer the question, even a simple, basic, normal, straightforward question like that and instead answering by saying "we'll see what happens" instead."
He couldn't even commit to a peaceful transition of power, he can't even say that's something he'd do, just saying "we'll see what happens" instead.
Then he made his comments about the Supreme Court, saying "we can't have a 4-4 court" (a SCOTUS with one vacancy that has the potential of being deadlocked due to an even number of judges), and he said that because of mail-in ballots, which according to him can't be trusted, despite their being no evidence of mail-in fraud, not even his own appointment to the FBI, Chris Wray supports him on that and says there's no evidence of mail-in fraud being a thing to worry about whatsoever.
But Trump said that anyway. That a vacancy in the court is bad and had to be filled before the election because of concerns of fraud that the Supreme Court will have to deal with. And his number two, Mike Pence, has of course essentially backed Trump up on that since.
And of course, even before that, here in the United States, our Presidents are limited by the Constitution, the highest law of the country, to not more than two terms lasting four years each. This is explicitly spelled out and concrete.
But Trump has constantly "joked" that he should be elected for three terms or even more. He's done that on numerous occasions.
Not only that, but Trump has on numerous occasions offered praise to fascists, dictators, and despots. These include people like Vladimir Putin, Kim Jong-un, and Erdogan. He's often said this of Erdogan and Putin in particular, how much praise and respect with him.
Which might be one thing by itself.
But then combine those "jokes," combine those praise of dictators with stuff like his appointment to and actions to the USPS, his spreading of conspiracies regarding mail-in ballots, his refusal to commit to peaceful transition of power of he loses, both his and Mike Pence's insistence of filling the vacancy on the Supreme Court before the election because not how important it will be for the election and because of concerns of fraud and stuff more than a month before election day...
Put every bit of that together and yes, not only is it clear that both Donald Trump and Mike Pence are fascists at this point, but anyone who nonetheless till supports them despite all of that being the case and so much of it basically bring the most recent of events, not stuff that happened ages ago, we're talking about stuff like Trump's comments on refusing to commit to a peaceful transition of power and the vacancy on the Court and all that just being this week, if someone nonetheless still supports Donald Trump despite all of that, they would meet the definition of being fascists as well.
That's, indeed, how bad it's gotten here in the States, do yes, especially considering everything that's happened in just the past few days, anyone who still supports Trump and Mike Pence despite their recent remarks and actions, they would meet the definition of fascists in my mind by supporting someone who himself absolutely bno question is a fascist at this point, yes.
I would include those voting third party/not voting. As their stance may not be "I am for the fascist wannabe dictator" they are saying they don't care if he wins and turns America fully into a fascist regime.
Which isn't in any way somehow more admirable than voting Trump directly.
Thanks for the detailed response, I am aware of some of these issues my only concern was that he was trading on peoples ignorance and it was unfair to call the people who are ignorant fascist. But I think enough (lots of) people have responded to me in this thread with good reasons as to why this ignorance is not tolerable and although some of their words have appeared to be strong or Harsh, they do appear to be justified.
So...Is America currently a fully fascist regime? I don't see how if he has another 4 years it will then turn into one if it's not already.
this is way too many words to try and paint what i said as anything other than what i said?
context doesn't just magically change facts. the idea that no one should fear a biden presidency isn't dependant on context
like i'm glad you wasted this time, though? like chastising me for entering a conversation that had resolved by writing a giant screed about another conversation that had already resolved? good work
"Tiny baby brain thinking" is being concerned that Biden isn't perfect when we got an actual fascist running the county who is getting people killed and shaping the county in a very terrible way for many years to come.