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Kirby and the Forgotten Land (Mini) Mafia - Poyo*! (*: poyo means murder)
- Thread starter Fireblend
- Start date
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==== DAY 4 VOTES ====
Day Start
Stantastic (4 votes)
The Wizard - #1,014 #1,132
The Wizard - #1,172
EvilChameleon - #1,189
Sawneeks - #1,250
MrHedin - #1,251
The Wizard (1 votes)
Stantastic - #1,135
MrHedin - #1,216 #1,251
No vote (1 votes)
HPSauce - #1,044
The Wizard - #1,132 #1,172
--------------------
Stantastic has died!
MrHedin has won!
The Wizard has won!
Funky Dude Sparks has won!
Sawneeks has died!
HPSauce has died!
EvilChameleon has died!
Mafia has won!
Thanks for playing :)
Day Start
Stantastic (4 votes)
The Wizard - #1,172
EvilChameleon - #1,189
Sawneeks - #1,250
MrHedin - #1,251
The Wizard (1 votes)
Stantastic - #1,135
No vote (1 votes)
HPSauce - #1,044
--------------------
Stantastic has died!
MrHedin has won!
The Wizard has won!
Funky Dude Sparks has won!
Sawneeks has died!
HPSauce has died!
EvilChameleon has died!
Mafia has won!
Thanks for playing :)
yeah nothing but respect for Wizard the Mafia King. you were saying everything right this phase and i couldn't find fault with any of it. was the counterclaim planned or did you wing it?
least i was right on hedin? but for the wrong reasons. :<
GG, sorry town. pro-tip dont leave me till end game because we WILL lose.
and sorry, stan. really thought it was you and hedin and even with the doubt of why you claimed it didn't counteract Wiz being the towniest fucker alive.
im just in awe. i dont think i've been duped like that since Swamped. wiz i hope you and i play scum together one day because holy hell.
least i was right on hedin? but for the wrong reasons. :<
GG, sorry town. pro-tip dont leave me till end game because we WILL lose.
and sorry, stan. really thought it was you and hedin and even with the doubt of why you claimed it didn't counteract Wiz being the towniest fucker alive.
im just in awe. i dont think i've been duped like that since Swamped. wiz i hope you and i play scum together one day because holy hell.
Leo was right, damn. Was watching the game and I'd have never voted Wizard because of the replacement.
I messaged Febe after the claim that I knew you were more that slightly suspicious on me so I was hoping that if I went to Stan's favor that would help to push you that way.
Fantastic stuff. Hilarious how quick this day went from "we're not voting" to "let's boot someone".
Also, I would like to petition that Wizard gets modkilled for posting after the end of day, thus extending this game one more day please. :P
He was Batman, I was like the 4th Robin or something, he just killed it. Also he wouldn't have been in that spot without Monkey being great too.
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I almost make that joke but I was already halfway thru composing the end of game message and was too lazy.
yeah you played that well, especially with being half on board with it so i felt you were open to a bus. which you were but for the wrong person :p
naaahhh, even if we no voted it still would've ended the same. if we know who dies overnight it's not worth it.
i was VERY close to it and it would have been a bad way to end it lol.
Uhh so we didn't plan for Rando being 1-shot at all. When I saw that I knew there was a risk we would get to the final day with a bunch of people confirmed, so I started crumbing 1-shot vig to hopefully counter 1-2 town PRs.
In hindsight, I should have had a blocker claim ready for a vig. Or a full vig ready to prop up a potential godfather / HP + Stan team, which would at least allow us to no kill and boot you out of the game for final 5.
For sure! For what it's worth we were ready to kill you from n2 but there were 2 doctor claims out there. Even still Hedin wanted you out last night but I was worried your vanilla flip would make it too narrow for us.
GG Scum. Very close game in the end I think.
Yeah, same for me. Monkey and Wizard had very sketchy voting records, but I dismissed it for that reason.
That disrespect to Damian's name will be tolerated. Hilariously, I narrowed my eyes more than once going 'Would a Hedin and Wizard team be possible? No, that's crazy talk' whenever scum reads were thrown out because you guys played off it so well.
gonna make a mental note to try that one time...
<3
just promise me next time you have me fooled you'll NK me before the end game. only so many times i can take a backstab!
Thanks Dr. Monkey for letting me inherit a slot with enough town credibility to get weird with. Hope you return soon so we can play in a game together!
Funky Dude Sparks gave nothing away with an unlucky death early on so mad props there.
Sawneeks I hope you at least appreciate that holding that vote had me losing my mind through the five stages of mafia that last day phase, no idea which way it would land.
MrHedin played that perfectly through the entire game. I knew we were in a good spot when I was bussing hard and no one would follow me. Sorry if I made that last day phase needlessly stressful when we might have been able to just win with double vanilla. There were many times I just wanted to apologize in scum chat lol.
and Stantastic sorry you had to be the fall guy for this play to work out. Holding your vig shot was really smart and I think we were screwed if you actually hit on EC there, that move wouldn't make sense for me to counter.
Yeah that last day phase was just juggling between not trying to blow up Hedin while not tricking Sneeks too badly and not giving Stan shit. Definitely have more empathy for being under the crosshairs now and will carry it forward.
Funky Dude Sparks gave nothing away with an unlucky death early on so mad props there.
Sawneeks I hope you at least appreciate that holding that vote had me losing my mind through the five stages of mafia that last day phase, no idea which way it would land.
MrHedin played that perfectly through the entire game. I knew we were in a good spot when I was bussing hard and no one would follow me. Sorry if I made that last day phase needlessly stressful when we might have been able to just win with double vanilla. There were many times I just wanted to apologize in scum chat lol.
and Stantastic sorry you had to be the fall guy for this play to work out. Holding your vig shot was really smart and I think we were screwed if you actually hit on EC there, that move wouldn't make sense for me to counter.
Yeah that last day phase was just juggling between not trying to blow up Hedin while not tricking Sneeks too badly and not giving Stan shit. Definitely have more empathy for being under the crosshairs now and will carry it forward.
You 10000% did the right move. I was just hoping that I wasn't going to give you too big of a headache the way I approached it....
pfff, hahahaha. this is perfect
Me replacing into scum chat.
any ETA on open boards? 👀
oh absolutetly. gonna be saving that for a future use
First of all
Thank you for letting me in mod chat and gratz on running this game Fireblend
The Wizard cool avatar and nice job replacing in and being able to control thread. impressive how much you were able to post with @hedin and control thread. top off to you both
Randomless MVP replacement
Stantastic You played well, sucks it had to end like that for you, i was rooting for you :) the true vig
I wasnt even in game, but yet here I am defeated by this ending haha. Don't have the energy to give more shoutouts!
Thank you for letting me in mod chat and gratz on running this game Fireblend
The Wizard cool avatar and nice job replacing in and being able to control thread. impressive how much you were able to post with @hedin and control thread. top off to you both
Randomless MVP replacement
Stantastic You played well, sucks it had to end like that for you, i was rooting for you :) the true vig
I wasnt even in game, but yet here I am defeated by this ending haha. Don't have the energy to give more shoutouts!
congrats, mafia. well done
what a way to go out though
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I already let Outer Mafia team know the game is over, I'm sure they'll take care of that soon.
Ah, and something I'd like to say. There are meta reads and meta reads. It's impossible to forget about other games and reads are forever going to be influenced by meta. So it goes.
However, lying about what is going on outside of the game as a strategy would not be cool and assuming someone is lying about what's going on outside of the game is very much not cool. If people say they aren't having fun, we should believe them.
Anyway, it was nice to play again. I'm probably out for a while. For those who aren't already, read some books.
However, lying about what is going on outside of the game as a strategy would not be cool and assuming someone is lying about what's going on outside of the game is very much not cool. If people say they aren't having fun, we should believe them.
Anyway, it was nice to play again. I'm probably out for a while. For those who aren't already, read some books.
I'm trying my best not to talk about this anymore and let it die but it's been hard when it keeps being brought up again. I'm here available to clarify anything, if anyone is still upset about what I did, please talk to me to clarify things, don't just chastise me impersonally.
I apologized to Monkey already. I didn't read her post as she bringing her mental health into the equation, I read it solely as frustration for being meta read, and I pointed that. I didn't accuse her of using her mental health or real life things as a strategy because I didn't read her post that way. Rereading it I understand how she saw it that way, but it wasn't the intention. I was talking about what was going on in the game and her reaction to being meta read in this game, she was talking about an emotional baggage from previous games, and the communication got cut.
I wasn't going to say anything, but I felt like shit leaving the game with people talking about me like I was purposefully harassing Monkey. And it's still happening. If anyone has something they want to clarify with me, please do, but it doesn't feel good to be judged like this. I appreciate the people who reach out to see if everything was okay on my end, thanks again!
I don't even know how to move forward onto another game after this. I don't understand what the community is expecting from town players when they're faced with an emotional reaction. In fact, I think this should be discussed because I'm not comfortable playing if what, in my mind, is playing the game, is, for someone else, harassment. I'm not comfortable at all. I'd appreciate if this discussion is held without judgement and solely in the intent of hearing people and making sure everyone is on the same page about what is proper behavior and what isn't.
I apologized to Monkey already. I didn't read her post as she bringing her mental health into the equation, I read it solely as frustration for being meta read, and I pointed that. I didn't accuse her of using her mental health or real life things as a strategy because I didn't read her post that way. Rereading it I understand how she saw it that way, but it wasn't the intention. I was talking about what was going on in the game and her reaction to being meta read in this game, she was talking about an emotional baggage from previous games, and the communication got cut.
I wasn't going to say anything, but I felt like shit leaving the game with people talking about me like I was purposefully harassing Monkey. And it's still happening. If anyone has something they want to clarify with me, please do, but it doesn't feel good to be judged like this. I appreciate the people who reach out to see if everything was okay on my end, thanks again!
I don't even know how to move forward onto another game after this. I don't understand what the community is expecting from town players when they're faced with an emotional reaction. In fact, I think this should be discussed because I'm not comfortable playing if what, in my mind, is playing the game, is, for someone else, harassment. I'm not comfortable at all. I'd appreciate if this discussion is held without judgement and solely in the intent of hearing people and making sure everyone is on the same page about what is proper behavior and what isn't.
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Still waiting on someone to tell me how me fake claiming vig there made any sense at all.
Im not letting this drop dumb dumbs.
Im not letting this drop dumb dumbs.
I did sell myself way to hard on EC being scum there tho, but scym hedin was something thatcwas too depressing to consider given they were the only one in my corner for what was a truely shitty day for a while there.
Sorry to betray your trust. When I was looking over things I had a really hard time believing that people were actually scum reading you, just felt like they had the preconceived notion that Wizard was definitely town.
Oh i have nothing against you or The Wizard here, it was a very good play and has nothing but my respect.
Hey Leo, thanks for the cameo appearance in this game even though most of it was before I joined. I think you threw some good theories out there.
I didn't comment much on the interaction in game beyond using it as a light clear on your alignment, I hope that didn't come across as disingenuous or that people didn't rely on that interaction while reading the slot.
I think it's really tricky to have a one size fits all approach here that will work for every situation. The line is in different places for different people or the same people on different days.
There is no easy way to communicate when you are speaking as the person behind the screen vs. within your role in the game.
It seems like these situations occur every other game under similar circumstances. I think it is okay to carry your expectations of how a player will behave in certain situations into a game. It's also very hard for that player to defend against.
If a player is claiming they are upset at something or frustrated then they could be:
A. genuine
B. playing things up for an advantage
Your argument is that you would wait until post game to apologize because if the slot was scum it could be B and you would be justified in your push. The thing is that it could still be A or B regardless of game state. Even the bad team have team mates they don't want to let down and frustrations over trying to play well and being dragged down by expectations.
In my opinion, if you want to use meta expectations as part of your solving strategy that is fine, but it might be more enjoyable if you apply them on top of the game state and go a level deeper.
"Is X really upset/angry?" or "Why isn't X doing Y like they normally do?" aren't really talking points the whole room can have a healthy discussion on, but "I think player X is annoyed at player Y because player Y is right about their read of / vote on player Z.." is.
I don't know how much sense that is making or if it is the answer you are looking for. And apologies if you felt stranded in the middle of the game, I didn't realize while we were voting on you that you had already dipped.
That last day really was amazing mafia play and so much fun to read. I love to see counterclaim thunderdomes where both sides are fighting until the very end. Stan was very towny in retrospect, but Wizard and Hedin were just too strong -- even without a chat to coordinate, they pulled the whole thing off perfectly. I loved seeing that they even had a secret code involving migraine references. Reading Hedin's post about his strategy of lightly defending Stan so that suspicion on him would reflect on Stan as well-- amazing strategy. Can't wait to see how Hedin does in the upcoming championships (if I can keep up with the thread) -- I think he's going to kill it. In the face of such great mafia play I can see why town didn't get there, and I think Sawneeks did our joint slot proud.
I am curious what happened to Stan's vig shot. My theory's still that it was refunded, but Stan didn't realize it because he didn't get notified -- as per the policy in the rules post of "no unnecessary notifications."
I hope we do more semi-open setups, in addition to our more complicated games. It's good to have the balance. Fireblend, thank you so much for running this one!
I'll say again what I said in the spec thread: it's ok to be focused on the game while playing the game. I don't think it's fair or kind to treat suspicion of other players -- including considering whether they might be lying in in-game posts -- the same as we treat insults or personally mean/jerkish behavior. Mafia is a game about lying to each other, accusing each other of lying, and sometimes manipulating each other, all things that are usually not ok among friends or gaming buddies. For that reason there have to be strong boundaries between in game and out of game.
My initial meta read hit a sore point, so I apologized. I definitely could have articulated myself a lot better and made it clear that it was more of a gut feeling. I could tell that Monkey's post saying that I hurt her was genuine, and I never want to hurt anyone. That said, when I made my reads post it was not about Monkey as a person, it was about trying to play the game. I think Leo was coming from the same place and while it's fair to criticize his strategy or phrasing, I think he got piled on when he was trying to play and I feel bad for him.
It's tough, because a lot of people got hurt by this situation, including Monkey, Leo, and me, and I want more than anything for that not to happen again and for us to enjoy playing together. I see that happening by having firm in-game/out-of-game boundaries, and by being respectful and compassionate, and that balance can be hard to find.
I am curious what happened to Stan's vig shot. My theory's still that it was refunded, but Stan didn't realize it because he didn't get notified -- as per the policy in the rules post of "no unnecessary notifications."
I hope we do more semi-open setups, in addition to our more complicated games. It's good to have the balance. Fireblend, thank you so much for running this one!
I'll say again what I said in the spec thread: it's ok to be focused on the game while playing the game. I don't think it's fair or kind to treat suspicion of other players -- including considering whether they might be lying in in-game posts -- the same as we treat insults or personally mean/jerkish behavior. Mafia is a game about lying to each other, accusing each other of lying, and sometimes manipulating each other, all things that are usually not ok among friends or gaming buddies. For that reason there have to be strong boundaries between in game and out of game.
My initial meta read hit a sore point, so I apologized. I definitely could have articulated myself a lot better and made it clear that it was more of a gut feeling. I could tell that Monkey's post saying that I hurt her was genuine, and I never want to hurt anyone. That said, when I made my reads post it was not about Monkey as a person, it was about trying to play the game. I think Leo was coming from the same place and while it's fair to criticize his strategy or phrasing, I think he got piled on when he was trying to play and I feel bad for him.
It's tough, because a lot of people got hurt by this situation, including Monkey, Leo, and me, and I want more than anything for that not to happen again and for us to enjoy playing together. I see that happening by having firm in-game/out-of-game boundaries, and by being respectful and compassionate, and that balance can be hard to find.
Tried to stay away from this but it's just been bothering me a ton, sorry. The line being different for different players is actually coded in the rules;
Nobody was purposefully hurtful here. But the issue keeps popping up; we hurt folks without meaning to. So we need to be extra careful when dealing with raw emotion, no matter how fake we may think it is.
On a brighter note, well done baddies! Never suspected you, only Fanto.
If someone communicates in any form "Hey, that point actually hurts me." you should immediately back down, full stop. No buts. In every season review this has come up, including the one in which the "stop it" rule was proposed, the community always decided that reading alignment into outbursts/winning an argument or game isn't important enough to risk affecting the emotional well-being of any member.
Nobody was purposefully hurtful here. But the issue keeps popping up; we hurt folks without meaning to. So we need to be extra careful when dealing with raw emotion, no matter how fake we may think it is.
On a brighter note, well done baddies! Never suspected you, only Fanto.
Yeah, I understand that. Scum can also get emotional and frustrated and I've seen that happening in games I've played. But at the same time, scum has knowledge of the other person's alignment and they are in a privileged position to read between the lines of what's being said. They know that if the argument is coming from a townie, it's probably in good faith and just genuinely trying to play the game. Town gets in a more difficult position what that happens, I think it's important to point that out too.
I think the choice of using meta or not ultimately falls on the player because it's not against the rules. If we as a community think we shouldn't be resorting to meta, our play has to be tuned into that path until we can see past it and people naturally won't give much attention to meta reads. As it is now, meta is a recurring element in our community and everyone should expect it to come up because that's how the community is. Changing that is a process, there can't be a hard cut unless we make it a rule, and I don't think anyone thinks it should be rule.
Personally, I'm trying to refrain from it because I think it will improve my game, but I can't expect other players to be the same, it's up to them. It's also on them how the other players will react to it, and if it's going to be beneficial for their team or not.
Agreed. I saw that a lot of the recent games had been getting really heated so I went into this game with the intention of simply playing it without engaging with it too much on a personal level. That worry led me to behave a little more distant than I probably should have. It's a delicate and difficult balance. Sometimes you need to be personal to read the room. I didn't need to phrase things like I did to vote monkey, and I didn't need to take back my suspicions on her either, I could have kept playing the game that I was playing while still taking more consideration of her feelings. I failed at that, that's why I apologized.
I agree, the well being of all players is more important than winning the game. If I had that in mind when the situation happened, I definitely would have done things differently.
This kind of situation is getting very common, though, so I think a refinement of that rule should be discussed. I think it should include some form of mod action when a situation arises, warning both parts regardless of their alignment and asking them to take some time off the game, and reminding them they can ask to replace if they need. I think that's helpful to make the players feel like they're being cared about and aren't lonely, and it also gives town a better sense of safety to back off, because once a scum player gets a warning, they will have to cool down, so instigating or faking an outburst won't be viable as a strategy.
And lastly, a general reminder to every player including me (and I really want to stress this isn't directed to Monkey, it's EVERYONE, we are all suscpetible to this): if you feel frustrated, take some time off and/or ask to replace. We can try to have rules and we can try to improve our behavior individually, but the truth is, as long as you're still playing the game in a vulnerable state, you're ultimately still liable to get even more hurt. So, for self-preservation, it's always best to step and take the time you need.
Oops, forgot to quote that. No, not at all!
I'm feeling much better now actually, I think I just needed to vent a bit and put my feelings out there cause I couldn't while the game was going on. Thanks :)