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Shoot

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,557
Two weeks ago, Joe and his family made the painful decision to close their Korean restaurant, Bab Sang. They even considered leaving Quebec City.

People were stopping by the restaurant, pointing and whispering. Some took photos.

There were threatening phone calls.

"Some called us and they said 'just leave Quebec,'" recalled Joe. CBC has agreed not to use his last name due to safety concerns.

The harassment began after a local newspaper, Le Soleil, published an article pointing out the restaurant's servers didn't speak French and the names of dishes on the menu were only in English. (The menu did include French descriptions of the dishes.)

The focus on Bab Sang comes at a time when the province is keenly attuned to threats to the French language. During the election campaign, leaders of all parties promised to do more to ensure its continued viability.
Quebec City's mayor, Bruno Marchand, weighed in, saying businesses need to function in French in Quebec City.

"I do not want to talk about this particular situation but I do want to say we will not make concessions on the backs of the labour shortage … [Quebec] is in French, this is non-negotiable," said Marchand, as reported by Radio-Canada.

Soon after that, Joe says the phone calls started and he started to worry for his employees' and family's safety. He eventually disconnected the phone line and closed his restaurant for a week as he decided what to do next.

"Frankly, I'm still afraid to get the phone," said Joe. "My heart breaks when my employees get the phone and [people are] mean and threatening. It was a really hard time for me."

Originally from South Korea, Joe moved to Quebec City from New Brunswick four months ago with his family. He says the hostility he has faced is disappointing, particularly since he aims to cater to everyone in the Sillery neighbourhood.

For months, Joe says he struggled to find francophone employees.

"I'm really sorry for my customers who want to get French service. I want to serve them in French," said Joe. "I cannot speak French and I don't have French staff now, but I cannot solve it by myself."

Things changed for Joe and his restaurant when news got out about the harassment they were facing.

That's when members of the Quebec City community, including many bilingual anglophones, stepped up to help, translating the menu and volunteering their services to keep the restaurant open.

Thanks to the support, Joe says he is reopening the restaurant Wednesday evening and resuming regular business hours.
The government has made language rules for new arrivals stricter, as part of its efforts to buttress the French language. Bill 96, which was adopted earlier this year, requires government officials to communicate with new immigrants exclusively in French, six months after their arrival — among other measures.

Advocates have pointed to the difficulties of learning a new language in that time frame.

For Joe, he says he is trying to learn French and will get a tutor.
 

Khanimus

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
40,231
Greater Vancouver
That's when members of the Quebec City community, including many bilingual anglophones, stepped up to help, translating the menu and volunteering their services to keep the restaurant open.

Thanks to the support, Joe says he is reopening the restaurant Wednesday evening and resuming regular business hours.
Good on these people. Fuck the harassing assholes.
 
Oct 26, 2017
35,600
First thing I thought of.
3597a476e69ab9f3455c883606424ec15a041954.jpg



On a serious note, I'm glad that they reopened. Harassing a family like this should never be tolerated.
 

BaconHat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,108
Wow, fuck those that harassed them.
Kinda surprising through that there was no francophone or bilingual potential employees, but some anglophone only in quebec city. Always thought anglophone only speakers were not even a tenth of that city.
 

S-Wind

Member
Nov 4, 2017
2,176
Given that this is Quebec I am surprised by the lack of overt racism towards them.

Or maybe there was and its mention was neglected....
 

Fularu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,609
Aside from him not respecting the law (french is mandatory) people have this weird tendency to believe they can harass anyone they disagree with. I don't understand this concept at all.

If someone is breaking the language laws, let the authorities deal with them and leave them the f*** alone.

Also I'm positive there were plenty of terrible « r'tournes t'en chez vous l'importé si t'es pas content » (typical racist sentence in Québec, it means « go back to your place if you're not happy, you imported good » (it's actually prety difficult to not translate it as foreigner since it has a heavy negative undertone)
 

anamika

Member
May 18, 2018
2,622
I mean, just don't go there and eat if you don't understand the menu or what they are saying? It's as simple as that. Go elsewhere. Instead all this cruel harassment of people.
Given that this is Quebec I am surprised by the lack of overt racism towards them.

Or maybe there was and its mention was neglected....
The threats and harassment is the racism. Them not speaking French is the excuse they are using.
 

Necromanti

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,551
So is the issue that the dishes were named in English, or that they weren't in French? Because I feel like it's really common to see dishes listed in another language, and then the description written in the local language (which it was). Can you use words like "yakitori" or "phở gà"?
 

Fularu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,609
I mean, just don't go there and eat if you don't understand the menu or what they are saying? It's as simple as that. Go elsewhere. Instead all this cruel harassment of people.
You are mandated by law to operate in french in the province of Québec. It's not a dual language province (Only NB is actually), it's a french one. If you can't operate in french, then you are breaking the law, that's it. Telling people to "just not go there" is pointless as the business shouldn't be operating in the first place. You can have dual language menus and all, but :
1- French has to be the first language
2 - French has to be in a bigger font, more visible than the other language one.

Also the owner beeing unable to find french speaking personnel in a city were less than 1/20th of the population speaks english only but had no issues finding english only personnel is prety suspicious.

With that said, harrassement and racist remarks/insults have no place, let local law enforcement handle it.
 

Saito

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,809
Genuine question, is Quebec the only place where a language is forced on the masses to this degree?

I'm struggling to think of a place less open to other languages.
 

apocat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,067
So is the issue that the dishes were named in English, or that they weren't in French? Because I feel like it's really common to see dishes listed in another language, and then the description written in the local language (which it was). Can you use words like "yakitori" or "phở gà"?

I noticed this too. Surely it should be enough to translate the description of the dish? Forcing restaurants to translate every name of dishes from other cultures seems absurd.
 

Ssyem

Member
Mar 15, 2022
925
In fairness, as someone living in Korea with friends who run small businesses here, I can say that if they didn't provide Korean language on their menus it would not fly.

Some countries like the US don't have an official language but if there is one, you have to follow it.

edit: wait, there was French on the menu? Ridiculous, then.
 

OrangeNova

Member
Oct 30, 2017
12,670
Canada
You are mandated by law to operate in french in the province of Québec. It's not a dual language province (Only NB is actually), it's a french one. If you can't operate in french, then you are breaking the law, that's it. Telling people to "just not go there" is pointless as the business shouldn't be operating in the first place. You can have dual language menus and all, but :
1- French has to be the first language
2 - French has to be in a bigger font, more visible than the other language one.

Also the owner beeing unable to find french speaking personnel in a city were less than 1/20th of the population speaks english only but had no issues finding english only personnel is prety suspicious.

With that said, harrassement and racist remarks/insults have no place, let local law enforcement handle it.
This is incorrect. It only applies if your business employs more than 50 people.
 

el jacko

Member
Dec 12, 2017
947
The government has made language rules for new arrivals stricter, as part of its efforts to buttress the French language. Bill 96, which was adopted earlier this year, requires government officials to communicate with new immigrants exclusively in French, six months after their arrival — among other measures.

Advocates have pointed to the difficulties of learning a new language in that time frame.
This sounds like potential for disaster. Either you get used to people speaking other languages, or you pay for state-sponsored French language instruction.
 

Fularu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,609
This is incorrect. It only applies if your business employs more than 50 people.
No it's not. Any store has to operate in french and provide services in french, have all signings and markings in french and, if they have dual language, french has to be the first and bigger font

This is per Loi 101.
 

OrangeNova

Member
Oct 30, 2017
12,670
Canada
No it's not. Any store has to operate in french and provide services in french, have all signings and markings in french and, if they have dual language, french has to be the first and bigger font

This is per Loi 101.
Oh my bad, it's 25, as per bill 96 where they reduced the need for francization from 50 to 25 people employed by your business.
 

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,129
Unless every employee was a member of their family, I can't reasonably believe that they didn't find a single bilingual server, let alone a French one.

The harassement is obviously disgusting though.
 

anamika

Member
May 18, 2018
2,622
You are mandated by law to operate in french in the province of Québec. It's not a dual language province (Only NB is actually), it's a french one. If you can't operate in french, then you are breaking the law, that's it. Telling people to "just not go there" is pointless as the business shouldn't be operating in the first place. You can have dual language menus and all, but :
1- French has to be the first language
2 - French has to be in a bigger font, more visible than the other language one.

Also the owner beeing unable to find french speaking personnel in a city were less than 1/20th of the population speaks english only but had no issues finding english only personnel is prety suspicious.

With that said, harrassement and racist remarks/insults have no place, let local law enforcement handle it.
If it is mandated by law, then go complain to the police. Why harass them? That's my point. Either go eat elsewhere or if it bothers one so much, that a restaurant is breaking the law by not having a French menu then register a legal complaint. That's not what happened here.
People were stopping by the restaurant, pointing and whispering. Some took photos.

There were threatening phone calls.

"Some called us and they said 'just leave Quebec,'" recalled Joe.
This article is about harassment.
 

Judau

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,803
Wasn't there a law where service workers in Canada had to know both English and French? Or am I misremembering? In any case, if you're gonna step into a restaurant in Canada, you probably know enough English to order what you want, so just fucking order in English if the restaurant workers don't know French.
 

Älg

Banned
May 13, 2018
3,178
6hilus.jpg

You are mandated by law to operate in french in the province of Québec. It's not a dual language province (Only NB is actually), it's a french one. If you can't operate in french, then you are breaking the law, that's it. Telling people to "just not go there" is pointless as the business shouldn't be operating in the first place. You can have dual language menus and all, but :
1- French has to be the first language
2 - French has to be in a bigger font, more visible than the other language one.

Also the owner beeing unable to find french speaking personnel in a city were less than 1/20th of the population speaks english only but had no issues finding english only personnel is prety suspicious.
I recognise that that is the law. But given that it's a stupid-ass law, I've elected to ignore it.
 

RisingStar

Banned
Oct 8, 2019
4,849
It's by law that you need to operate your business in French so it's perfectly fine for a Quebecois to harass them for not following the rules.

edit: mandatory /s
 
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TimeKillr

Member
Feb 9, 2021
175
Oh my bad, it's 25, as per bill 96 where they reduced the need for francization from 50 to 25 people employed by your business.

IIRC Loi 101 forces signage in French but that's it.

In any case this is absurd, but really not surprising from Quebec City (please don't mistake Quebec City for the province as a whole!). I have friend who are black who went there 10 years ago and were looked at strange, they were pointed at, ppl would stare, etc. It's a verrrry white-centric city that is also very right-wing, racist and xenophobic, just like the idiotic government this province elected on the basis of "immigrants bad, speak French or fuck you", despite the very vast majority of the province that never has to interact with immigrants (they mostly come to Montreal anyway and the province as a whole is hella scared of the city).

My wife is a Quebec-born anglophone, and so are her parents, while I'm Québec-born francophone, and we all fucking get along, it's just idiots who are massively scared of losing their culture (aka as if the language they speak is the only aspect of it) because some ppl come in and speak other languages and pick up English because guess what, the rest of North America mostly speaks English?

If I was in Quebec city I'd go to their restaurant just to scream at the idiot bigots.
 

Razmos

Unshakeable One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,890

BaconHat

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,108
How can there be a threat to a language?
That a weird thing to ask, considering the number of language dialects that were lost to time over the world due to people using the most popular version, not being taught in school anymore, etc..
Heck, here's some examples from france :
theculturetrip.com

11 Native Languages That Are Disappearing In France

Discover other dialects and languages spoken in the Hexagon before they disappear forever

Why should anyone care... considering the language, expression and the way you speak shape your interaction in society, i'd say it's a pretty dang important part of living, and losing a language is losing a part of knowledge and culture. For example if the welsh lost their language and only spoke english, they would lose a part of their culture that is different from the rest of the UK.
 
Last edited:

Razmos

Unshakeable One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,890
Apologies, its clearly something I don't understand yet, it's coming from a place of unintentional ignorance
 

Small Red Boy

▲ Legend ▲
Member
May 9, 2019
2,680
Apologies, its clearly something I don't understand yet, it's coming from a place of unintentional ignorance
I'll just say this as someone who was denied the opportunity to learn the traditional language of my region and only learnt the oficial state language. Langauge is important, is the main veihcle by which culture (and specific cultures) are transmited. There are a lot of languages in a sitation of diglossia that are under threat, specially indigenous languages. Laws protecting minority languages are important and necessary.
 

Oreiller

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,857
Genuine question, is Quebec the only place where a language is forced on the masses to this degree?

I'm struggling to think of a place less open to other languages.
I think pretty much every country with a single official language asks you to be able to operate in that language when you provide a service.
 

Razmos

Unshakeable One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,890
I'll just say this as someone who was denied the opportunity to learn the traditional language of my region and only learnt the oficial state language. Langauge is important, is the main veihcle by which culture (and specific cultures) are transmited. There are a lot of languages in a sitation of diglossia that are under threat, specially indigenous languages. Laws protecting minority languages are important and necessary.
Thanks for clarifying, I wasn't aware of any of that!
 

disparate

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,904
  1. If you're operating in Quebec, it seems somewhat asinine that you don't have staff that can serve people in french
  2. the community should have spent the energy they used on harassment on helping the restaurant fix their gaps rather than be shitty
 

Vinc

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,387
  1. If you're operating in Quebec, it seems somewhat asinine that you don't have staff that can serve people in french
  2. the community should have spent the energy they used on harassment on helping the restaurant fix their gaps rather than be shitty

Couldn't agree more, I'm glad some people stepped up and helped him out. Pretty happy ending, all things considered.
 

RisingStar

Banned
Oct 8, 2019
4,849
Quebec is trying so hard to hold off the one inevitable.

It's more likely that they will separate than lose their language, which in turn is closely tied to their culture, IMO (and this isn't happening any time soon). It's obvious that most of its population does not want to lose this aspect of its society and also wants to remain in Canada. This can be further leveraged by having immigrants willing to either assimilate as they would in the rest of Canada with its own societal norms, the English language included, or having actual French-speaking people fast-tracked through immigration. As opposed to the popular belief of some of the Quebecois people I've met, (anecdotally speaking), they don't realize the insane amounts of African nations that speak French. I've met Senegalese people for example who were discriminated against for simply existing in Quebec until they realized they speak French. Then there's another whole aspect of the people here not wanting religious or cultural elements being shown, or brought over as "baggage", which they use to discriminate against most of the Arab world, who would speak French anyway. Basically, another way to bypass racism in my eyes, but that's just my opinion of course.

This is a culture war at this point, fueled by the xenophobia of bad actors, specifically the leading govt. I was a young dark skin boy who faced xenophobia and racism growing up in the Quebec system, but it's only gotten worse these days. Maybe it's because after completing my education, I studied elsewhere, worked in other cities, and came back to see the issues more vividly, but I do think it's gotten significantly more annoying. It's a unique problem to Quebec with their angle and there are solutions to it, but the populist party they've voted in twice in majority continues to throw wood in the fire. It's white supremacy right now that the rest of Canada just shrugs at.
 

Saito

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,809
I think pretty much every country with a single official language asks you to be able to operate in that language when you provide a service.

Yeah I was thinking more along the lines of I've never seen seen somewhere so aggressively stamp out other languages.

As others pointed out though, China is probably worse.