Liam Neeson says harassment allegations are now 'a witch-hunt'
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The colloquialism "witch hunt" is rarely if ever meant as a perfect metaphor. I'm not sure why people insist on the phrase meeting the absolute literal, historical definition of the term.
I don't think the "witch hunt" term applies here, but it's always just been a catch-all for a general kind of social or political McCarthyism.
He makes some good points and wrongfully defends some people. Not that egregious tbh.
Problem on the internet is everyone thinks they are the judge, jury and executioner. I also like how he points out Hollywood is hogging some of the attention away from other industries that have it much worse like Labour industry.
Problem on the internet is everyone thinks they are the judge, jury and executioner. I also like how he points out Hollywood is hogging some of the attention away from other industries that have it much worse like Labour industry.
I said there are no parallels, none. Including any that get anywhere near the original meaning.
Both Witch hunt & McCarthyism are used to describe instances of having 0% evidence, and making conclusions about people. Of course, not literally drowning people, if that appeases the gods of pedantry and allows focus on how its not applicable. Both also mean heeding caution as innocent people will be tangled in webs of lies and deceit, with life destroying consequences.
None of that applies to the #metoo movement. As all caught due to verified stories/pictures/settlements/spy agencies, are apologizing for their actions, and many have multiple accusers. Those that have been wrongfully accused, or those trying to rig the system to make it seem as if its just people coming forward without any credibility, are filtered out as they don't stick. You can't escape from the point that the terms mean its unjustified actions based on nothing. It doesn't apply, and really has no place anywhere near #metoo.
The point is he doesn't get it. It's all unacceptable.
Important to remember that being a communist is a better thing to be than being a rapist
It's not about being either, it's about being accused. Like the poster herewho says he can't wait for Neeson to be found out, the internet's a wet dream for authoritarian figures like McCarthy and Lenin.
Was pointing out the flaw in the comparison, that you cannot exactly say that the goals are 1:1.
Despite the name, men were killed during witch hunts too. You know that right?
It was never "women for being women" either, it was anyone for being different, for daring to question, or sometimes just because you made the wrong enemy.
If you would like to elaborate so it doesn't sound like you're defending rapists and harassers, that would be great.
Im saying an accusation seems to be enough to declare someone guilty in the court of public opinion. And while I believe the victims, so many people have been acused, most with zero evidence, that well be very lucky not to find out later that one of the accused turned out to be innocent all along.
Why do you consider women's testimony zero evidence? What kind of evidence are you expecting there to be? Do you expect there to be video footage of every event? Do you seem to think it's more important to protect the minuscule amount of men who have been falsely accused over the enormous amount of women who have and continue to be harassed and abused? The accused don't need you to defend them.
This user is banned for this post: Tenuous sexist remarks that minimizes victim's accounts.
Because it is not evidence.
As far as believing them I do believe them mostly because kmowing the way maaany guys think and act plus the risk the girls are taking by coming forward, there is an extremely low chance that they are lying.
But regardless of if I believe them or not just like in the days of the witch hunts an acusation is all that is needed to deem someone guilty.
Which is why I said not 100 percent wrong.
Are we really doing this shit again?
It's amazing that all of what you posted was ignored except the pedantic need to treat all of these women's stories as if they are court cases, and not private companies vetting the accusations then acting on the reports.
It's crazy that when coworkers have issues at work, they don't have to go to judge judy to resolve them, but the company does what is in its rights to do as a private company.
It's amazing that this identical argument keeps recycling in this thread. Which speaks volumes about the people making them.
It's amazing that all of what you posted was ignored except the pedantic need to treat all of these women's stories as if they are court cases, and not private companies vetting the accusations then acting on the reports.
It's crazy that when coworkers have issues at work, they don't have to go to judge judy to resolve them, but the company does what is in its rights to do as a private company.
It's amazing that this identical argument keeps recycling in this thread. Which speaks volumes about the people making them.
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What's the point of saying you believe women if you don't think we should actually believe someone has done something wrong? We don't need this.
Im uncomfortable believing without proof in most situations.
Thing is even if someone is wrongfully acused, this movement is i believe generating a net positive in the world. Guys need to change the way they think. I mean I still hear the old "no means yes and yes means anal" joke every so often which is disturbing.
Having said that eventually an acusation of sexual harrasment has to become a very serious acusation rather than meaning an automatic guilty.
That does not remove the fact that the acused so far is always punished and his reputation damaged. Which if becomes the normal is a scary situation for guys. Because you cannot tell me that the posibility for abuse is not there.
It's absurd. And he has the gall to pretend he's trying to stop abuse from happening when the outing of sexual predators is already exactly that. Zero self awareness.
Obvious?
When anyone can make accusations, then there will be wrong accusations.
But the justice system in the US is kinda corrupt, so I don't have an answer to this mess.
When anyone can make accusations, then there will be wrong accusations.
But the justice system in the US is kinda corrupt, so I don't have an answer to this mess.
ben affleck, who did something poor on international tv a very long time ago
george takei
adam sandler 'omg creepy knee touch' hysteria (for an example of bullshit surrounding this stuff)
thats all i can think of currently, but im not actively keeping up with it.
I wouldn't say destroyed, but someone did try making claims against T.J. Miller.
He and his wife made a public statement about how this person had been going after him for years trying to sabotage their relationship.
And in a climate like we have right now, this person's accusation could have very easily worked had they not had a history of trying it in the past.
please clarify what damn near exaclty means, hasnt there been around 8-10 of these stories? damn near sounds smaller than 30 % to me.
I'd also wager that everyone that participates on a forum can read.
edit: also aziz is now another one
A witch hunt was a group of people who painted others as something abhorrent because of them performing (wrongly or rightly accused,) very trivial actions. The group then demanded and carried out punishments that were vastly over exaggerated for the crime.
Liam Neesons description is apt in some of the cases out there I feel.
Liam Neesons description is apt in some of the cases out there I feel.
All of whom haven't lost a step
Aziz is up to 2 or 3 reported incidents btw
The point is that individual statements from the accuser or the accused is not evidence.
Get it.
It's impossible to count one side as evidence and the other side as not.
What is evidence is the statistical research that proves underreported sexual misconduct.
That informs us that it is highly more likely the accuser isn't making a baseless statement. That's the evidence.
Oh yeah... which and don't say Garrison Keillor... I've gone in depth on that one
This i dont understand, so please go ahead and try to explain it to me.
If you believe that someone has been raped or sexually harassed because they have come out and accused someone you can very well be just being tricked if indeed this person was lying to try and get at these two people.
On the other hand you are taking this at face value again because you dont have the evidence other than what these people are saying that the person has repeated said thing. so what if you are being lied to actually from these two?
How can you be certain that X person has done the horrible things that are being accused without any evidence other than a tweet or an interview? This is one instance and im sure there is more out there.
Now before I get banned for "making light of the victims" or "saying victims are lying" as the mods seem to just be doing all the time. Let me make this 100% clear, Men and Women who sexually abuse,Rape or are harass there coworkers need to be dealt with.
Especially if done to a child in my books thats even worse. All I am saying is that taking something at face value like the story above can lead you and others in the wrong direction, I hope that in that case nothing actually happened and it was just a lie to get at the couple which in itself is actually a pretty terrible thing to do as it could cost them there job and relationships in some cases.
Iv said this before on this site and had 100 people reply back pretty much telling me "not here!" "not when it comes to socially" but please put these people in a seat and throw the book at them, if they are found guilty thats good, send em to prison. If they are found innocent that is good, nothing actually happened.
I dont know if I should even post this because I will probably be banned which is kinda ridiculous imo and shows me how strange the moderating can be to the point that it actually makes me think ill be banned for making what i think is a level headed post not attacking anyone or derail a thread but I just think it needs to be said because without critical thinking the online mob mentality which already exists can very well turn into a witch hunt, you can start seeing it here with people saying that he is hiding something because he said this (maybe this was said jokingly and I misunderstood. hard to tell in text). Hey mod, if you are gonna ban me I just hope you read the whole thing before doing it.
Unless someone can go ahead and try to explain it to me thats kinda all I had to say on the matter. Hope I see you all tomorrow.
These allegations have been open secrets in the Hollywood community for years. In a legal sense, nothing has changed. People aren't being convicted of sexual misconduct due to these allegations, for better or for worse, so I find the characterization of the treatment of these allegations as 'a witch hunt' disingenuous. Whether or not these allegations are being treated correctly in a criminal justice context is a separate issue entirely.
I think this anxiety over the publication of Hollywood's dirty laundry reveals an attitude of entitlement among long-standing industry veterans who have forgotten or despise the role public opinion plays on the financial success of their projects, however. That one could become significantly less popular due to an allegation they may not believe is truthful is a huge threat to both their finances and their egos, nevermind the fact that both of these are massively over inflated. The fact that accusations of sexual assault can escape the gravitational pull of Hollywood, and that the general public is taking these accusations seriously, has put high profile media personalities into a difficult situation where they feel they need to discount or suppress the information coming out because accepting the idea that their lifestyles depend on the fickle whims of the public necessarily acknowledges that they have been living in a fantasy world where the selective presentation of the positive aspects of their personality and history matters more to their success than any illusion of acting ability or hard work.
So frankly, I don't give a damn if Dustin Hoffman makes 15 million instead of 18 million this year because of sexual assault allegations. If they think fake media personas making marginally less money is too grievous a price to pay for acknowledging the possibility of sexual assault, this entire damn industry of manufactured glamor and hero worship can collapse around their heads for all I care.
I think this anxiety over the publication of Hollywood's dirty laundry reveals an attitude of entitlement among long-standing industry veterans who have forgotten or despise the role public opinion plays on the financial success of their projects, however. That one could become significantly less popular due to an allegation they may not believe is truthful is a huge threat to both their finances and their egos, nevermind the fact that both of these are massively over inflated. The fact that accusations of sexual assault can escape the gravitational pull of Hollywood, and that the general public is taking these accusations seriously, has put high profile media personalities into a difficult situation where they feel they need to discount or suppress the information coming out because accepting the idea that their lifestyles depend on the fickle whims of the public necessarily acknowledges that they have been living in a fantasy world where the selective presentation of the positive aspects of their personality and history matters more to their success than any illusion of acting ability or hard work.
So frankly, I don't give a damn if Dustin Hoffman makes 15 million instead of 18 million this year because of sexual assault allegations. If they think fake media personas making marginally less money is too grievous a price to pay for acknowledging the possibility of sexual assault, this entire damn industry of manufactured glamor and hero worship can collapse around their heads for all I care.
I don't think accusing people you disagree with of being secret rapists is very helpful.
