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Magic: The Gathering |OT| Dominaria - Only 90's Kids Will Remember
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
- Start date
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There's no new templating for Sagas at all. The reminder text is horribly templated - the ability actually works the way you would expect if you were building the ability knowing basically what it does:
Sagas automatically get Lore counters without the stack at the beginning of your pre-combat main phase (which is not in actual rules parlance "after your draw step"). Adding Lore counters will cause a Chapter ability to trigger when the number of Lore counters exceeds the current number of Lore counters on the card (if a Winding Constrictor-esque effect, although not WC itself, causes it to get multiple counters, every Chapter higher than the counter prior to more counters being put on it will trigger. Nothing in standard will give you two counters at once, but Skyship Plunderer can trigger multiple Chapter abilities per turn.
Sagas look awesome. It's way more legible than if they were formatted with a normal text box, and the shape evokes the flavor of the card type. There's still plenty of room for art, and it gives artists the chance to create unique pieces and scenes that they wouldn't otherwise be able to.
The reminder text isn't good; no argument from me there.
On the card itself, I imagine that it'll be extremely impactful in Standard. At the same time, it has more counterplay than most board wipes since it's delayed by a turn and is vulnerable to Enchantment removal. Really like it overall.
The reminder text isn't good; no argument from me there.
On the card itself, I imagine that it'll be extremely impactful in Standard. At the same time, it has more counterplay than most board wipes since it's delayed by a turn and is vulnerable to Enchantment removal. Really like it overall.
They should have had a Planeswalker frame with something to make them look more Enchantment-y. But it's not a big deal. None of these seem like anything I'd put in a deck anyways.
The theory is they didn't want it to appear to be a triggered ability to put a Lore counter on a Saga. I don't think it made it clear at all.
You still get both the counter and an associated Chapter trigger even if you have Necropotence out.
It absolutely is after your draw step. Main phases don't normally have turn-based actions, but when Sagas are on the battlefield they do.
No. You get the counter even if you don't have a draw step (e.g. Necropotence). It's in the Release Notes; this occurs in your pre-combat main phase, not your draw step; nothing requires a draw step to have occurred or a card to have been drawn.
After your draw step implies the main phase, but I can understand why that might be confusing for someone who doesn't have a strong grasp on the rules.
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I don't think they will have "skip you draw step" anywhere in Standard with these, so mentioning it in reminder text is fine.
Would it really be so hard to rephrase it in an easier fashion?
Something more like:
What we got is insanely confusing.
Something more like:
When this card enters the battlefield, put a lore counter on it.
Add a lore counter at the start of your pre-combat main phase.
If this card has three or more lore counters, sacrifice it.
Add a lore counter at the start of your pre-combat main phase.
If this card has three or more lore counters, sacrifice it.
What we got is insanely confusing.
The 'after draw step' is the most confusing part of the whole thing. I didn't know if that meant main or after drawing your card but inside draw step.
Look at the room they had lol
Contraptions don't have reminder text right ? Should have gone the same way
I already saw like 5 guys this morning talking about draw step triggers. It's definitely confusing. Particularly given the red saga literally would not work if you did not get the Chapter ability in your main phase.
All of the Sagas being bad flavor crap you don't put in any deck probably ameliorates the rules wonkiness.
Well, it's either "after your draw step" or "at the beginning of your precombat main phase". I think "after your draw step" is easier to understand.
The former is how magic has always been templated. There is no period of time after your draw step but before main phase.
If you somehow are forced to skip your main phase, this will still work.
It does not. The reminder text implies that it does but it does not according to the release notes.
yeah I was wondering why they were giving you mana in the draw phase. I don't get why they reference the draw step at all, they do a triggered ability at mainphase 2 just fine.
You realise how condescending that sounds right?
I mean, here's a quick and (really) dirty mock up:
But more to your point, they had as much room as they wanted because they designed the damn frames!!
They could have given themselves more room if they desired.
They may have been trying to avoid giving the impression your opponent could respond to the Lore counter because at that point it's a triggered ability which triggers another ability.
right there's the weird interaction according to the release notes that the sacrifice doesn't happen until the III resolves.
Oh I get it, reminder says after III.
Oh I get it, reminder says after III.
Man, look how clearly this card works!
That's just the best I could do with Paint while at a meeting at work. I'm sure it would be sized more legibly if they were to print my wording haha
That's just the best I could do with Paint while at a meeting at work. I'm sure it would be sized more legibly if they were to print my wording haha
What the game actually needs is a visual shortcut for "this enters with X counters of X type." Planeswalkers have a visual shortcut for entering with loyalty counters - there's no reason why they can't have a visual shortcut for creatures entering with +1/+1 or -1/-1 counters, and then the same visual shortcut could be used for lore counters here.
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Just realized, there's no explicit rules text on the card for how it works, just reminder text. That's new for black border subtypes outside of how defender used to be tied to Walls.
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Looks nice, though I imagine they deliberately didn't make it look like a planeswalker so people wouldn't think they worked the same way.If it were like a Planeswalker it could look like this.
Which is confusing also. Sagas don't leave the battlefield until the trigger from a third Chapter resolves.
I'm fairly confident that was a design goal since the PW frame I s already set up to do this and the EDH PW show you can fit reminder text. They had to deliberately not want it to look like the Planeswalker frame.
If it were like a Planeswalker it could look like this.
Everything should just look like the game day promos at all times.
No. It leaves after the ability leaves the stack. If it gets Disallowed, the Saga is still sacrificed. If the turn ends with the ability on the stack, the Saga is still sacrificed.
So it would have to be phrased:
[ III ] Sacrifice this Saga: Ability on the card
Then it would be good, right?
Technically that's a functional change - if a [III] ability counts the number of permanents you control, for example.
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