No. Rin is a crossdressing guy.Wait I'm confused. So Rin is trans then? I thought we had me established she was a minion-like pink alien and the trans speculation died with that reveal. So we were right all along and she is trans then?!
No. Rin is a crossdressing guy.Wait I'm confused. So Rin is trans then? I thought we had me established she was a minion-like pink alien and the trans speculation died with that reveal. So we were right all along and she is trans then?!
So they made their choice then. Basic respect of all people isnt a big enough deal to them. They deserve to have fingers pointed at them as well.Of course not. Why would Atlus Japan let them sabotage their own product? People would be fired if they did that.
Wait I'm confused. So Rin is trans then? I thought we had me established she was a minion-like pink alien and the trans speculation died with that reveal. So we were right all along and she is trans then?!
It looks like this article is trying to provide a counter-point to all this. Towards the end, they state that there is nothing shown to suggest that that ending was to "make everyone happy." Is this a case of jumping the gun without all the information, or does this article miss the mark? Thoughts?
https:///2019/02/17/manufactured-ou...lUv2cUHO8H0h3ONPIcHIcmMQSfTby0tHlNT9cS0tQCvuo
Why does it have to be explicitly mentioned by the characters in order to count though? By going back in time before Paul's death, everyone gets a happy ending. It's clearly subtext as outlined by the post above yours. Nothing in the OP's post implies that this is something Catherine explicitly states but Erica not transitioning is framed as a positive thing. That's fucked up.Catherine doesn't mention anything about creating a better world, not for everyone, not for Vincent. She doesn't even tell Vincent what she's doing. After Vincent says that he wishes they met sooner but he doesn't want to dwell on the past, Catherine says 'It's okay; you have me' and warps them.
It looks like this article is trying to provide a counter-point to all this. Towards the end, they state that there is nothing shown to suggest that that ending was to "make everyone happy." Is this a case of jumping the gun without all the information, or does this article miss the mark? Thoughts?
https:///2019/02/17/manufactured-ou...lUv2cUHO8H0h3ONPIcHIcmMQSfTby0tHlNT9cS0tQCvuo
Why does it have to be explicitly mentioned by the characters in order to count though? By going back in time before Paul's death, everyone gets a happy ending. It's clearly subtext as outlined by the post above yours.
- Under his translation, Toby says 'I wonder if there's another girl as angelic as her in the world' to which Erica replies 'there's one right next to you'.
So it seems like Erica will still transition? I mean it's a bit more in the past and we don't know when she transitioned.
So it seems like Erica will still transition? I mean it's a bit more in the past and we don't know when she transitioned.
Having watched the translated scene it goes like this:
Vincent calls Catherine through the bar
She travels back in time to highschool and meets Vincent there already, Paul survives and is with the group
Few years later they meet up in the bar and Vincent and Catherine marry
Toby says he wants a woman too and Erica says to him "Well there is a woman already nearby for you"
So Erica will still transition in this timeline?
Edit: Still stupid to show it that way. Could have been handled way better by mentioning the years and all and showing us that she will still do that in this timeline.
With Toby there it must be around the time the game plays. Even if she still transitions that means at least half a decade of additional dysphoria.
There is no way I can see to slice this where this is not very cruel.
And not every trans person must medically transition to still be trans. But considering what she did in the original timeline it's likely she was uncomfortable with her body.
Atlus has been trashed since after they published 3D Dot Hero in the USA
Multiple times. In all 3 Hashino Persona games. It also shows the dude is a misogynist piece of shit.Yikes, not a good look...again because IIRC this isn't Atlus' first offense. I remember them depicting a gay guy really poorly in one of the Persona game, right?
Anime goons keep spamming me and harassing me with this post now, not knowing that you have since edited this and knowing that this is still pretty badErika implies that she's an "angel-like young woman", which likely means she's still planning to transition in this alternate world, or at the very least that she doesn't really see herself as a man.
Tobi: うらやましいっス。あんな天使みたいな子、他にもどこかいないっスかね。
Erika: 案外、近くにいるかもよ。
Tobi: I'm jealous! Where are the other angelic girls like that [referring to Catherine]?
Erika: Surprisingly, they might be close.
She says this as she puts her arm around Tobi, giving the impression that she's talking about herself.
Oh ok, gotcha. I didn't realize that site was an issue, I apologize.
Because it wouldn't support their narrative.
And can't you just get out of there? You don't need to engage them or support their harassment, it's useless.
What do you mean?
They said they're being harassed with it (on Twitter, I assume?). Trying to deal with that isn't "supporting their harassment", that's gross.
It's bad, just not as bad as people originally thought.Wait so I'm confused. Was the new content overblown or is it actually bad? That new translation a few posts up suggests the former
Even if the context for the new wedding scene is slightly not as awful, they still feel the need to deliberately show Erica in a pre-transitional state as a punchline to Toby wishing he could find an "angelic girl" (when angels in Rin's context have penises).
No this is not what I meant at all. Apologies if it came out wrong.
I was just saying that if those trolls were causing any kind of distress then it would be better to just get out of the conversation because no good could come out of it. And you're right, if it's on Twitter I guess it's something else. Apologies again if I misinterpreted the situation. I meant no harm.
Edit: English is not my first language. What I meant is "bear with their harassment", not support.
Wait so I'm confused. Was the new content overblown or is it actually bad? That new translation a few posts up suggests the former
Is there anywhere I can read up on this idea of "cis voyeurism"? I think I kind of understand why it's an issue here, but I'd still like to learn more about it.
Is there anywhere I can read up on this idea of "cis voyeurism"? I think I kind of understand why it's an issue here, but I'd still like to learn more about it.
I am not super familiar with it as a specific term, but in general I would assume: as a cis person, you don't have a right to know about a trans person's history. You're not entitled to know how they used to look/present, their deadname, etc. There shouldn't be a "fun" reveal that makes the audience go "ah, so that's what they used to be like!".
Is there anywhere I can read up on this idea of "cis voyeurism"? I think I kind of understand why it's an issue here, but I'd still like to learn more about it.
I am not super familiar with it as a specific term, but in general I would assume: as a cis person, you don't have a right to know about a trans person's history. You're not entitled to know how they used to look/present, their deadname, etc. There shouldn't be a "fun" reveal that makes the audience go "ah, so that's what they used to be like!".
If they really want to write about marginalized people, it's too bad they can't have members or even just one person from said group to come in as an advisor.
As much I'd like to believe that Atlus didn't fuck up majorly and just delayed Erica's transitioning for some reason, knowing Atlus's history, they could've just branded her as an okama (a stereotypical effeminate gay man) because 天使みたいな子 sounds like something one would say (based on my experience with VNs where that kind of characters show up).
Do you have any actual evidence to back this up? That no one on their team is LGBT?
Not gonna lie, I sort of pulled the term out of thin air because I'm having some trouble expressing what it is I'm feeling. There's just something that really, really rubs me the wrong way about them seeing an opportunity to change stuff around, and the only thing they jump on is Erica. Like they're excited at the transgression of it, of getting to point and say 'look at this'.
^p much this, especially the last part, is where I'm coming from.
I am not super familiar with it as a specific term, but in general I would assume: as a cis person, you don't have a right to know about a trans person's history. You're not entitled to know how they used to look/present, their deadname, etc. There shouldn't be a "fun" reveal that makes the audience go "ah, so that's what they used to be like!".
Thank you all.Not having an exact source but whenever there is an article written about a trans person here is a strong tendency to both deadname them along with the proper namr and show a pre transition picture.
Even among those who don't misgender the pronouns.
I was talking specifically about the team working on the script for the game not the entire studio. And no, I don't have any evidence and could be wrong.
So if this part is accurate then it does kind of sound like people are indeed jumping the gun. Unless I'm misunderstanding this implies Erica is planning to still transitionIt looks like this article is trying to provide a counter-point to all this. Towards the end, they state that there is nothing shown to suggest that that ending was to "make everyone happy." Is this a case of jumping the gun without all the information, or does this article miss the mark? Thoughts?
https:///2019/02/17/manufactured-ou...lUv2cUHO8H0h3ONPIcHIcmMQSfTby0tHlNT9cS0tQCvuo
As the newlywed couple looks positively blissful and near angelic, Toby says "She's just like an angel, I don't think I can find anyone like her" when gazing at them. Then, Eric puts his arm around Toby and says "She may be closer than you think."
Thats Rin's True Ending. The problem is in Catherine's New "Best" Ending
So if this part is accurate then it does kind of sound like people are indeed jumping the gun. Unless I'm misunderstanding this implies Erica is planning to still transition
Even if there was zero implication that Catherine changed everyone's lives for "the better", there's no reason to not have Erica transition in that timeline and not explain it.
I don't think writers should be limited in what they can show of a character because idiots think that makes being intrusive into peoples history okay.
I mean, the OP and the rest of this thread are already full of wild accusations about a specific individual based solely on extrapolations of games released from a studio spanning more than a decade. I guess more baseless assumptions about the many individuals that had an influence on the games is not out of place.
So if this part is accurate then it does kind of sound like people are indeed jumping the gun. Unless I'm misunderstanding this implies Erica is planning to still transition
We also had someone saying they have JP industry knowledge/rumors that would support that Hashino is to blame.
There have been some particularly out there interview quotes regarding other issues cited in the thread about him.
So he is a reasonable person to look at as the source of this problem, and this belief certainly is not only present in this thread even before you consider it is seemingly not limited to the English-language fandom, nor is him being to blame a new idea.
And I don't want to backseat mod or anything, but I do want to say - for your win good - that I think you're getting kiiiiinda close to crossing the line set by the staff post here.
So if this part is accurate then it does kind of sound like people are indeed jumping the gun. Unless I'm misunderstanding this implies Erica is planning to still transition
Wait, what? What we're left with from my understanding of that quote is that Erica still plans to tradition and possibly ends up with Tobey. I'm not seeing how that's "damn cruel and exploitative".This is partly true.
While it is correct that Catherine does not say anything about 'making a better world', we've seen very little in the way of translations from Ishtar's piece. That might be where the line comes from.
But suppose it doesn't. Suppose there is no line anywhere about this being 'a better world'. What are we left with? We're left with a timeline which has still been altered so that Erica has delayed transitioning for a long time compared to the main timeline. She's there as an easter egg, or rather, a punchline.
So yes, if that line isn't in, it's less offensive. It's still pretty damn cruel and exploitative.
But it's not a problem since it implies she does still plan to?But whether or not she intends to transition is not the only problem, and the thread has been aware of this dialogue for many many many pages now besides.
1. Toby is there. Tony is a decade younger than the rest of the cast; he originally did not meet Erica before she presented as a woman. Because he is there, this cannot be set before more or less when the game took place, when she had been presenting that way for a good long while.
2. That line is a punchline. It's not "don't worry, she's still a girl!" It's playing her actually being a girl as a joke to the player. And I will again say: it feels like the entire reason she is inexplicably depicted this way is just so they can make this joke. And that sucks.
also, again, for context: that's a pro-Gamergate site