Man if you not watching Picard Season 3, you are missing out on the best new Trek character since Odo(I said what I Said). Spoilers minimal

[Eoin]

Shaw's indeed one of the best parts of a season that is full of surprisingly good stuff.

Can I just jump in? Or do I need to watch S1&2 to understand?

Click to shrink...

The only reasons to watch seasons 1 and 2 would be to make season 3 seem even better by comparison. Season 1 has its moments but falls apart as it approaches the end. Season 2 is just dire, except a special type of dire where they change things up every episode and somehow make it worse each time. Not only is Picard season 3 from a whole different universe in terms of quality, it barely takes anything of importance from the first two seasons.

and even something like Lower Decks looks interesting.

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Lower Decks has a slightly stumbling start (I still found it fairly enjoyable, but they definitely started off a bit too loud and frantic). It finds its feet mid-way through season 1 though (which is record speed for Star Trek) and then it's consistently good and sometimes excellent.

Overall I'd say Star Trek has been really good for the past 3 years with the exceptions of the first two seasons of Picard. With Picard season 3 turning things around, we're at a point in time where, as a long-time fan, I think the past year is pretty much the high water mark for the franchise in terms of how many really good Star Trek episodes there have been.

Is Picard self-contained, or do I need to see something else beforehand?

Click to shrink...

You're fine with only having seen up to Voyager.

 

[ArchedThunder]

All you really need to know is

Spoiler: Picard season one spoilers

Picard died at the end of season one and was replaced with a Picardbot that was given copies of his memories.

Click to shrink...

Not true.

Spoiler

Per the people behind the show it was a mind transfer, not copy. It's like how transporting doesn't kill and clone characters.

 

[Dary]

Technically Garak appeared in the franchise after Odo, fyi.

Sisko told Picard off in the very first DS9 episode. He didn't wait for it to fester like Shaw did. That's because when the Borg ruined his life, Sisko did some very productive therapy...

...designing a warship to kill Borg.

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Does this mean Shaw is the human personification of the Defiant? Both hate the Borg, both take no shit. Hopefully not a case of both falling to the Dominion...

 

[Pluto]

I have not seen a Star Trek series since VOY ended. Thus, no ENT or Discovery.

I am definitely interested in Picard -- I love Hugh, Seven, and apparently all of the TNG guys are back? -- and even something like Lower Decks looks interesting.

Is Picard self-contained, or do I need to see something else beforehand?

Click to shrink...

It's self contained but the first two seasons are not very good, the first one wasn't awful though, the Riker and Troi episode was the best, Frakes and Spirits were both so good, season 1 is worth it for their scenes imo.
Season 2 is ... skippable.

Season 3 has been awesome so far, they gave Gates McFadden more to do in 5 episodes than in all of TNG, it's almost unbelievable how interesting Crusher is in this, Troi was very well written (and acted!) in season 1 too and I look forward to Marina Sirtis getting more to do in the second half of season 3. It's a shame what they did to their characters on TNG where they were more often than not window dressing.

Lower Decks and Prodigy are both very good too.

 

[Sign My Guestbook!]

I have not seen a Star Trek series since VOY ended. Thus, no ENT or Discovery.

I am definitely interested in Picard -- I love Hugh, Seven, and apparently all of the TNG guys are back? -- and even something like Lower Decks looks interesting.

Is Picard self-contained, or do I need to see something else beforehand?

Click to shrink...

You don't need the two you haven't seen.

Also, check out Strange New Worlds. It's good.

 

[Kschreck]

Captain liam shaw of the USS Titan, who doesn't put up with none of Enterprise bullshit. And he says what everyone is thinking. He is also a tragic broken man. Warning, don't watch this clip unless you want to tear up

The Battle of Wolf 359 - Captain Liam Shaw - Star Trek Picard

This is the first scene in 25 years that has made me cry. The previous one was from Voyager's episode with the future Borg drone, with Seven saying "Please....

youtu.be

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This guy was absolutely fantastic in 12 Monkeys.

 

[ArchedThunder]

Fun fact, Shaw's actor is played by one of the writers of the game Forespoken.

 

[BarringGaffner]

I just have a really hard time believing it's actually good when people also say the first 2 Picard seasons were good. Can anyone that is a TNG fan confirm if S3 is actually better and not absolutely miserable?

 

[Addie]

This thread has convinced me to use Paramount+ for more than Pokerface… I can't NOT start with S1E1 though…

 

[B.K.]

This thread has convinced me to use Paramount+ for more than Pokerface… I can't NOT start with S1E1 though…

Click to shrink...

Why do you hate yourself?

 

[Master of Cats]

waaaat

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It's true but not actually relevant

 

[Professor Fate]

I just have a really hard time believing it's actually good when people also say the first 2 Picard seasons were good. Can anyone that is a TNG fan confirm if S3 is actually better and not absolutely miserable?

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The main thread is full of people like me who loathed the first two seasons and love this new season. Seriously, from a huge TNG fan, it's good.

 

[GDGF]

Just caught up to episode 4.

I change my pretty dope Captain to very dope Captain.

Damn this season is good.

 

[Darknight]

I'm enjoying the latest season of Picard, but the thread title is strange given that Strange New Worlds exists and only came out last year...

 

[Teh_Lurv]

I just have a really hard time believing it's actually good when people also say the first 2 Picard seasons were good. Can anyone that is a TNG fan confirm if S3 is actually better and not absolutely miserable?

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As an OG TNG fan who hated S1 and liked S2 despite it's flaws, S3 is goddamn gold.

 

[Elegant Weapon]

I'm enjoying the latest season of Picard, but the thread title is strange given that Strange New Worlds exists and only came out last year...

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But most of those characters aren't new.

And the new ones haven't had enough screen time to be "better" than the last 22 years of new original Trek characters, just like Shaw.

Voyager, Discovery, Lower Decks and Prodigy have actually great original characters.

Not that the thread title should be taken too seriously anyway, I'm just saying.

 

[Saturday]

yeah season 3 surprisingly fucks. not sure if it'll stick the landing, but the best way to summarize season 3 is to describe the intro

you know every intro is about ships flying around in space

discovery got weird about it, bit more abstract, perfectly describes how 'new' it's trying to be better or worse

earlier seasons of picard make you think you're watching science fiction more steeped in melodrama

this season is just title card, snippet of iconic music, introduce title of episode, then right into the action. no bullshit.

and yeah captain shaw is the exact amount of dry-witted asshole you need to work in a star trek utopia world. good stuff

 

[CrunchyB]

I'm enjoying Season 3. The first two seasons of Picard started promising before they devolved into pure trash, but this season already feels much more solid than the others and IMO episode 5 is the strongest episode to date. Just good oldschool TNG-trek. I'm really looking forward to the next episode.

Somewhat aside, but I also enjoy Strange New Worlds. I like the cast and it's pretty fun.
Discovery is a mixed bag but I'm still watching it, there's some good stuff between all the melodramatic nonsense.
Haven't seen Lower Dekcs or Prodigy.

 

[Teiresias]

For those that haven't seen S1 and S2, aside from what everyone else already said I guess it's worth noting that . . .

Spoiler

Seven of Nine has not been in Starfleet this entire time and is only just now back in Starfleet, the first season explores her frame of mind and backstory a bit more, but the specifics aren't terribly crucial, just go in understanding she's much more "human" than she was on Voyager.

In any event, I'm actually kind of annoyed that if Trek had been in a better spot and could have lucked out getting a showrunner and writing room of the caliber they have for this season then we could have had a show with these returning characters ten years earlier. Seeing Frakes and McFadden with actual script to dig their teeth into has been amazing to watch.

I know we all hope there's plans to get a new post-Nemesis TNG era show going after this, but the TNG cast is majority 70+ years old (aside from Sirtis and Burton I believe) so we're unfortunately not going to get as much with them and it makes me a bit sad.

 

[Katbobo]

He's SO good.

His voice.
His charm assholery.
His being a dipshit from Chicago.
His interesting backstory.
Him.


He and Seven better get a show 😡

 

[Soj]

I swore never again after season 2… but everyone seems to be saying it's good. What to do?

 

[syndicalist]

I thought he was incredibly cringe at first but he plays the unlikeable captain very well.

The show is finally entertaining after two seasons, but it's still relying on some of the weak tropes they've been failing with on both series — wise cracks, one liners, and other silly dialogue along with the constant, oppressive bleakness and yet another galaxy ending threat. The difference I guess is that they finally honed in on the interesting characters (Raffi, TNG-era crew who are already established — basically old people with storied lives, though I'm still not sold on Seven's personality 180). But what they did to my girl this episode.. cheap!

 

[Katbobo]

I swore never again after season 2… but everyone seems to be saying it's good. What to do?

Click to shrink...

It's well worth breaking a vow for s3. It's some damn good Star Trek.

 

[Dary]

I swore never again after season 2… but everyone seems to be saying it's good. What to do?

Click to shrink...

 

[Mamoniadas]

Yeah shaw rips, its fun to see federation brass just trying to get along and not get roped into tng's heroic BS. we're half way through this season and it's been solid. I agree with RLM's sentiments that it (season 3) feel like a TNG movie we never really got.

Sisko told Picard off in the very first DS9 episode. He didn't wait for it to fester like Shaw did. That's because when the Borg ruined his life, Sisko did some very productive therapy...

Click to shrink...

I mean sisko had a chance to see picard the same week following best of both worlds. shaw had to wait what, years?

I have not seen a Star Trek series since VOY ended. Thus, no ENT or Discovery.

I am definitely interested in Picard -- I love Hugh, Seven, and apparently all of the TNG guys are back? -- and even something like Lower Decks looks interesting.

Is Picard self-contained, or do I need to see something else beforehand?

Click to shrink...

I mean as far as the timeline goes, it the first main show after voyager and it leans heavy on tng, ds9, and voy for it's story base. s1 and s2 are pretty foul but s3 is a great point for you to return to.

 

[Kelsdesu]

Click to shrink...

Perfect response. If you know you know.

 

[CommodoreKong]

Yeah I like Shaw a lot, easily my favorite new character in any season of Picard .

Damn that was good. I am going to have to watch this now.

But can I really skip season 2? I'm a completionist! is it REALLY that bad?

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Yes. Read a summary online. Somehow S2 of Picard is much worse than the already bad season 1.

 

[ezekial45]

I disliked the character at the beginning but he really grew on me, he's great. The actor that plays his is awesome too, he contributed to the writing on the game Forspoken as well (which is much better than people think).

 

[antispin]

I'll wait for the Season to end before diving in. Want to go in fully prepared: pre-disappointed or pre-hyped, as the case might be. The first 2 seasons were a Spirit Dampener. Don't need more of that in my life.

 

[Gavalanche]

was worried they were going to make him a dipshit at first but in reality he is just kind of sick of everyone's bullshit and wants to do right by his crew. He is weirdly likeable despite being abrasive, mostly because his flaws are understandable. And not putting up with Picards or Rikers shit in a way is fun.

 

[El Bombastico]

All I've heard about this show is that one its Vulcan/Romulan characters is essentially a Tolkien elf transported into the Star Trek universe. That true???

 

[Tukarrs]

All I've heard about this show is that one its Vulcan/Romulan characters is essentially a Tolkien elf transported into the Star Trek universe. That true???

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His name is Elnor which roughly translates from LOTR elvish into "él" (star) "nor-" (trek/run.)
They dropped him from the show in Season 3.

 

[Teiresias]

All I've heard about this show is that one its Vulcan/Romulan characters is essentially a Tolkien elf transported into the Star Trek universe. That true???

Click to shrink...

I mean, the character is a species with pointed ears that's in a "warrior monk" cult, but that character isn't in S3 at all anyway.

 

[Soap]

I would be really disappointed if we didn't get a Shaw spinoff on the titan after all this… He is a very different kind of captain but he still hits well within the universe.

 

[grand]

Picard (TV series) is pulling an Enterprise (TV series): they waited until the final season to hire good writers and give people what they want

They also both have names that force you to specify that you're referring to the TV series lol

 

[BossAttack]

Whatever.

 

[Dragonyeuw]

Yeah this is some genuinely good stuff. Season 1 was a slog, didnt even bother with 2, and I don't feel lost going into 3. This actually feels like a proper sendoff for the TNG crew. And there are far worse ideas than getting a spinoff with Shaw, Seven and the Titan. Dude is hilarious....

 

[super-heated plasma]

Actually they hot the Bakku part wrong. Picard was trying to UPHOLD the prime directive. The Federation was breaking it with a loophole.

 

[firehawk12]

Shaw is okay I guess. He's the audience expy, which makes it easy to like. But he's not much of a character.

 

[BossAttack]

Sisko told Picard off in the very first DS9 episode. He didn't wait for it to fester like Shaw did. That's because when the Borg ruined his life, Sisko did some very productive therapy...

...designing a warship to kill Borg.

Click to shrink...

LOL.

 

[elLOaSTy]

You think he tells Beverly like Hey I saw your kid wesley in the 21st century or w.e he's doing good as like a space time god thought you might want to know

Do you think he ever checks in with her lol

 

[Soap]

Shaw is okay I guess. He's the audience expy, which makes it easy to like. But he's not much of a character.

Click to shrink...

How do you figure that? He has a good back story, a defined personality and his own urgency. I think the problem is his arsehole personality only works in small doses because it would be grating for a show me leads, although he has shown growth from what I have seen.

 

[chrominance]

I swore never again after season 2… but everyone seems to be saying it's good. What to do?

Click to shrink...

This is me. I still can't decide if everyone in this thread is really legit or if they're all mass hallucinating. Season 2 was just SO BAD. How could the show possibly be good after that?

I'm almost ready to throw in the towel and watch the show but I still worry that they'll find a way to completely fuck up the second half of the season again and make me regret being fooled for a third time. I would just be the biggest goddamned idiot on the face of the earth if I let this show waste ten more hours of my life with yet another unfortunately terrible season, against my better judgement.

 

[Mandius]

It's on the same level as Star Trek: Nemesis.

 

[Serebii]

How could the show possibly be good after that?

Click to shrink...

Completely different showrunner

 

[Aiii]

This is me. I still can't decide if everyone in this thread is really legit or if they're all mass hallucinating. Season 2 was just SO BAD. How could the show possibly be good after that?

I'm almost ready to throw in the towel and watch the show but I still worry that they'll find a way to completely fuck up the second half of the season again and make me regret being fooled for a third time. I would just be the biggest goddamned idiot on the face of the earth if I let this show waste ten more hours of my life with yet another unfortunately terrible season, against my better judgement.

Click to shrink...

For whatever it's worth, I loathed seasons 1 and 2 to the point where I was going to trash the show. The only reason I even turned on S3 is the promise of nostalgia bait and the fact that if anything else, it would be the final season either way.

The truth of the matter is, the show has been great. It still has minor flaws, but they're nothing more than minor flaws. It's capturing the spirit of Star Trek and if I were to give you a mindset to go into it, it would be to see this as the movie follow-up that TNG deserved but never got. It's a ten-hour TNG movie that revisits the characters you loved and adds some fun new ones to boot.

Just forget Seasons 1 and 2 ever existed, aside from one of the characters returning (not counting Seven as she's legacy) and a reference or two to Picard being a droid, it's all just ignored by both show and viewers alike.

 

[AHA-Lambda]

I'm shocked to hear all of this.
S1 was terrible and so I never even bothered with S2, but it's actually good now??

And to even read here that S3 basically ignores S1-2 is quite something

 

[firehawk12]

How do you figure that? He has a good back story, a defined personality and his own urgency. I think the problem is his arsehole personality only works in small doses because it would be grating for a show me leads, although he has shown growth from what I have seen.

Click to shrink...

It's the writing for every character, not just Shaw. Because of how the season has been set up, the writers have relied on monologues and dialogues to do all the heavy lifting for their characterization. They talk about what happened to them because there's literally no time to show what happened to them. This happened with Riker and his son, Seven, Raffi, Beverly, the character from the latest episode, etc. The only character he gets more than that is Jack, and even then it's pretty threadbare.

I think a lot of people like him because he's the metatextual audience-insert who realizes that he's in a television show and is able to speak for the audience... basically a Lower Decks character who is prickly.

That's fine, but he's not comparable to characters like Odo, let alone even better characters like Garak.
(Sorry Odo fans :p)

 

[FlexMentallo]

Stashwick is really great as Shaw. They'd have to broaden the character for a show - but there's meat on the bones with that Wolf 359 speech.

I always find it a bit surreal seeing him on-screen. I worked on Star Wars Ragtag and he played/was captured for the lead character and was also co-writer with Amy. So he was on my screen and my gamepad sticks every day for a few years. He was in the office quite often and a nice and genuine dude, would come and hang and chat with devs on the team.

 

[Quinton]

Preach it, Slay.