Deleted member 3812

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Newsweek has reported that both Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren wants Vice President Harris to override the Senate Parliamentarian's decision on increasing the federal minimum wage and Sanders has vowed to attempt to force a Senate vote on increasing the federal minimum wage:

Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren Call on Harris to Override Parliamentarian on $15 Minimum Wage (newsweek.com)

March 1, 2021

Senators Bernie Sanders of Vermont and Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts on Monday urged Vice President Kamala Harris to override the parliamentarian's ruling that reconciliation cannot be used on the $15 minimum wage hike in President Joe Biden's $1.9 trillion stimulus relief package.

Sanders, chair of the Senate Budget Committee, has refused to give up on passing the $15 minimum wage after Senate Parliamentarian Elizabeth MacDonough decided that the measure did not meet the requirements of the budget process called reconciliation.

"My personal view is that the idea that we have a Senate staffer, a high-ranking staffer, deciding whether 30 million Americans get a pay raise or not is nonsensical," Sanders told reporters. "We have got to make that decision, not a staffer who's unelected, so my own view is that we should ignore the rulings, the decision of the parliamentarian."

He added: "Given the enormous crises facing this country and the desperation of working families, we have got to as soon as possible end the filibuster

Sanders has vowed to force a vote in the upper chamber to determine support for the $15 minimum wage later this week. "To the best of my knowledge, there will be a vote on the minimum wage, and we'll see what happens," he said. "I intend to offer the bill that will raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour, and we'll see how the votes go."

Warren joined Sanders in calling for Democrats to ignore the parliamentarian's decision. "I agree," she said.
 

Mcfrank

Member
Oct 28, 2017
15,296
Yes please. Republicans faced absolutely no backlash for the times they have done this and democrats won't either. They should absolutely do this.
 

RailWays

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,879
If it is an option they can take I would see no reason for a Biden administration to roll over and give up on including it.
 

Critch

Banned
Dec 10, 2017
1,360
If it is an option they can take I would see no reason for a Biden administration to roll over and give up on including it.

The alternative would kill the entire stimulus plan because Manchin and Sinema won't go for it with it included. We've delayed this thing long enough.
 

gardfish

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,637
What is the procedure on this? I've seen people saying that Harris overruling the parliamentarian would still require a majority vote, which we probably wouldn't get with Manchin and Sinema. Is that accurate, or is it something that Harris can do unilaterally?
 

Zombegoast

Member
Oct 30, 2017
14,288
Biden promised $15 minimum wage increase Kamala Harris promised a $15 minimum wage increase.

There's no excuse
 

defaltoption

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
11,548
Austin
Bernie continues to be the fuckin best. Its bullshit that so early into Biden's presidency there's already such pushback among dems for such an easy win.
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,142
Biden promised $15 minimum wage increase Kamala Harris promised a $15 minimum wage increase.

There's no excuse

...

Do you guys hear yourselves?

Manchin is a no.

It's over. It's not Biden's fault, it's not Kamala's fault. Unless his vote (and perhaps a few more) to support a 15 dollar minimum wage are reversed, it's done.
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,981
What is the procedure on this? I've seen people saying that Harris overruling the parliamentarian would still require a majority vote, which we probably wouldn't get with Manchin and Sinema. Is that accurate, or is it something that Harris can do unilaterally?
This won't happen with Manchin and Sinema.

I honestly doubt Biden would be ok doing so even if there were enough votes, in any case.
 

qaopjlll

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,818
Why is Manchin against raising the minimum wage, anyway? Does he enjoy watching the citizens of his own state wallow in misery through every waking moment of their insufferable existence?
 

Deleted member 8468

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Oct 26, 2017
9,109
Bernie out here fighting tooth and nail for people who don't even know who he is. Broken record, but we need more people like him.
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,142
Ok I guess we just give up then and move on in unity with Manchin

No?

I'm just sick of reading "the Dems have fucked up", "Biden lied to us", etc.

They have nothing to do with it. Until people like Manchin are convinced to vote differently, it's over. And it's no one's fault. It is what it is.
 

xfactor99

Member
Oct 28, 2017
731
There is no reason Joe Biden and the Democratic party should not bully Joe Manchin into submission.

Well if you piss off Manchin enough he could leave the Democratic Party and/or become an independent. Then Mitch McConnell becomes Senate Majority Leader and you can't get any judges confirmed or anything brought to the Senate floor without his approval.
 

TheXbox

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 29, 2017
6,594
Never fucking heard of the Parliamentarian until this saga began. Only in America. What a decrepit, idiotic system.
 

antonz

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,309
I guess that depends on whether you think the filibuster rule is a positive aspect of the Senate.

Which for most people probably depends on whether their party of choice has the majority.
This isn't even about the filibuster. This is deciding an Unaffiliated official appointed by the Democrats is not willing to bend the rules and should be replaced with a rubber stamp. Which in any other period of time people would absolutely be opposing.

I personally oppose it as well because if we are going to fight it should be a fight over the filibuster. Firing the Parliamentarian does not get the voting rights act passed. It does not get infrastructure passed. It does not get any other important bill passed. Instead we are dragging the COVID bill along which yet again is bumping up against the wall of expiring benefits.

Lets get the damned bill passed and fight the filibuster topic if we want real bills passed
 

BobLoblaw

This Guy Helps
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,360
Harris is likely gonna tell them to fall in line. Biden has already said he won't override it. Yes, it's desperately needed, but when you start bucking norms and firing people you don't agree with, how are you any different than the orange asshole? You fire the Parliamentarian, force the vote, and then (knowingly) come up short. Sinema and Machin won't be primaried over this when they inevitably vote against it, so what's the point? What am I missing?
 

Chrome Hyena

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,780
Will Sinema and Manchin really torpedo the entire bill due to a part they don't like? I mean i'd put the bill out there, force them to do it. I feel like in the name of being "independent" dems are allowed to not go with the party. They need to fall in line on this.
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,142
Harris is likely gonna tell them to fall in line. Biden has already said he won't override it. Yes, it's desperately needed, but when you start bucking norms and firing people you don't agree with, how are you any different than the orange asshole? You fire the Parliamentarian, force the vote, and then (knowingly) come up short. Sinema and Machin won't be primaried over this when they inevitably vote against it, so what's the point? What am I missing?

Nothing.

If there were an actual chance this would pass if the Dems superceded the Parliamentarian, great. Go around her.

But do to all that then watch it not pass anyway? That's just embarrassing.
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,225
What is the procedure on this? I've seen people saying that Harris overruling the parliamentarian would still require a majority vote, which we probably wouldn't get with Manchin and Sinema. Is that accurate, or is it something that Harris can do unilaterally?
Harris can fire the parliamentarian with no issues. The problem is that firing them doesn't solve the issue of getting Manchin and Sinema on board and getting them to vote in favor of the bill, in fact it makes harder. There's no point in taking that step if you don't have the votes to pass the bill.
 

tokkun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,456
This isn't even about the filibuster. This is deciding an Unaffiliated official appointed by the Democrats is not willing to bend the rules and should be replaced with a rubber stamp. Which in any other period of time people would absolutely be opposing.

I personally oppose it as well because if we are going to fight it should be a fight over the filibuster. Firing the Parliamentarian does not get the voting rights act passed. It does not get infrastructure passed. It does not get any other important bill passed. Instead we are dragging the COVID bill along which yet again is bumping up against the wall of expiring benefits.

Lets get the damned bill passed and fight the filibuster topic if we want real bills passed

The effect is equivalent to eliminating the filibuster.

If the party in the majority decides what counts as valid under reconciliation, and reconciliation bypasses the filibuster, then you have de facto eliminated the filibuster.
 

Maxim726x

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
13,142
Harris can fire the parliamentarian with no issues. The problem is that firing them doesn't solve the issue of getting Manchin and Sinema on board and getting them to vote in favor of the bill, in fact it makes harder. There's no point in taking that step if you don't have the votes to pass the bill.

The Parliamentarian's ruling doesn't have to be adhered to, from what I understand.

The Senate can just ignore the ruling. The issue is there is no point in doing so right now.
 

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Codeblue

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Oct 25, 2017
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Yes, it's desperately needed, but when you start bucking norms and firing people you don't agree with, how are you any different than the orange asshole?

You sorta answer your own question there. It's desperately needed. Equivocating fighting for a living wage and what Trump was doing is off base. Bucking norms wasn't the problem with Trump, it was bucking norms in service of bigotry and corporate interests.
 

Watchtower

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,786
No, I'm sorry, I'm not gonna be all "yas Bernie" over this.

If you got everyone backing this that you can ensure this will go, then you have every reason to push forward. But everything suggests that they don't, namely because Manchin and Sinema refuse to budge and none of the Senate Dems have provided sufficient leverage. So all this is doing is spending more time doing nothing but labeling them as "not us". Time that could be spent barreling forward with COVID relief, pushing forward Voting Rights and DC statehood, pushing for things where we can actually get Manchin and Sinema on board with nuking the filibuster for.

There's a lot of shit that needs to happen before midterms of Dems have a chance of keeping this momentum that's been built up and so far things have been dogged in this slow game of chicken with the GOP over the filibuster. And all this feels like is just gumming the works, slowing shit down, not getting shit done.

And people are like "put Manchin and Sinema on the record" like...sure, you might be able to bully Sinema a bit, but y'all really think Manchin in blood-red WV gives a shit? "Oh no, he didn't side with Dems on $15/hr" for him and all the Rs that keep voting him in that's probably a fucking blessing. Goddamn.
 
Oct 26, 2017
17,496
The votes don't seem to be there. I'm not sure what there is to override. If Biden fought for $15 like Bernie would, maybe there'd be a chance.
 

Chrome Hyena

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,780
No, I'm sorry, I'm not gonna be all "yas Bernie" over this.

If you got everyone backing this that you can ensure this will go, then you have every reason to push forward. But everything suggests that they don't, namely because Manchin and Sinema refuse to budge and none of the Senate Dems have provided sufficient leverage. So all this is doing is spending more time doing nothing but labeling them as "not us". Time that could be spent barreling forward with COVID relief, pushing forward Voting Rights and DC statehood, pushing for things where we can actually get Manchin and Sinema on board with nuking the filibuster for.

There's a lot of shit that needs to happen before midterms of Dems have a chance of keeping this momentum that's been built up and so far things have been dogged in this slow game of chicken with the GOP over the filibuster. And all this feels like is just gumming the works, slowing shit down, not getting shit done.

And people are like "put Manchin and Sinema on the record" like...sure, you might be able to bully Sinema a bit, but y'all really think Manchin in blood-red WV gives a shit? "Oh no, he didn't side with Dems on $15/hr" for him and all the Rs that keep voting him in that's probably a fucking blessing. Goddamn.
My thing is you're right. but you know what people in blood red WV DO WANT? Covid relief. He vote that down even "bulletproof Manchin" will need to explain why he stopped WV people from getting all that COVID relief.
 

Ensorcell

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,514
I don't believe for a second that it's ONLY Manchin and Sinema that don't want this within the Democratic Party. There are some cowards hiding behind them.
 

Avitus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,955
Why is Sinema in particular being such a piece of shit? The filibuster solely benefits over-represented senate republicans, and she can absolutely support getting rid of it while keeping her seat. I voted for Kelly but want her gone.