[March 1] Newsweek: Sanders, Warren Call on Harris to Override Parliamentarian on $15 Minimum Wage, Sanders vows to force Senate vote
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This is stupid.
Maybe he's immovable, but you're not gonna know unless you try.
There may be a larger strategy here to exert pressure when the inevitable filibuster vote comes up. Might be saving their ammo.
I don't think this is the fight. There is far too much at stake to risk pissing off Manchin for this... VRA, DC Statehood, Immigration reform. Dems shouldn't prematurely ejaculate.
If Dems don't think that nuking the filibuster to give people a livable fucking wage then they can piss off. Stop beating around the bush and bring the filibuster issue to the floor and vote on it. If Sinema and Manchin vote nay then there we have it, at least we don't have to pretend like it might happen.
I'd rather get the stimulus/relief package out first and then have the fight over minimum wage and the ultimately the filibuster. The relief package has been delayed enough as is.
Yep. The wage increase not going into effect until 2025 makes this a battle to be had later. Take the easy wins now and push for harder stuff later.
I have a hard time believing this. Not because I doubt the Biden administration would do this, because this is certainly in line with Moderate Dem bullshit, but because the reporter was railing against the administration/Manchin/Sinema all day regarding minimum wage, and then conveniently finds the smoking gun to tie it all together that same day? I also find it hard to believe that a TYT contributor would have a pipeline to Manchin allies for behind the scenes information Lol.
Some people still aren't over 2016 lol.
Seriously, every Democrat should be fighting for this.
oh yeah it's probably fake news. hey that sounds familiar...
Isn't this basically a symbolic vote with no real consequences? If so, why would anyone expect the Whitehouse to be pressuring Senators regarding this?
I agree. There's a reason why Bernie has such a high approval/favorable rating.
We need more progressives like them in charge of this country.
That guy has a check mark,im putting all my eggs in his basket and not even thinking about possible outcomes where he is wrong or inaccurate.
Republicans and democrats have replaced the parliamentarian before. Not often, but it has happened.
A lot of Dems want to make that self-fulfilling by not bringing things to a vote that Manchin won't go for.
Rather than fighting a losing battle where you definitely don't have the votes, just get the stimulus checks out and then push for the minimum wage hike in separate legislation. People were explicitly promised those checks - dragging them out for months out over something you can't win will just piss people off.
In addition, if it is accurate, Manchin's position has been so well established and consistent that it probably isn't worth the time to lobby Manchin from Biden's team since the effort is almost certainly doomed to fail. If you have a limited amount of time and energy with which to address all of the various problems you're facing does it make sense to put much time towards a futile effort?
This is the same guy who voted to confirm Kavanaugh for the Supreme Court seat.
Manchin & Sinema are DINO's.
There is an argument that there are bigger battles to fight...
The ultimate battle being the filibuster. You've got to build up some good will, because he has *vehemently* come out against abolishing it. Gotta play this intelligently.
Even more interesting, apparently, is that the Senate can just completely ignore the Parliamentarian if they want.
There is no binding order that needs to be adhered to. It's just tradition and decorum, basically.
Insane how much of a fight has to be put up to whip 2 senators for what is already a compromise that is a decade late. Their seats aren't up until 2024, so I really don't buy their whole electoralism excuse, especially for Sinema who is to the right of her own state at this point.
But there are about 30+ seats up in 2022 where a lot of those absolutely depend on legislation being done, done quick, and done often. Also have to consider that the House seats also depend on stuff being done.
Manchin/Sinema are ruining it for the rest of the party as long as they're allowed to continue wasting our times and playing games.
lmao, it was a pretty funny meeting all things considered.
We are all Ron Klain.
But there are about 30+ seats up in 2022 where a lot of those absolutely depend on legislation being done, done quick, and done often. Also have to consider that the House seats also depend on stuff being done.
Manchin/Sinema are ruining it for the rest of the party as long as they're allowed to continue wasting our times and playing games.
I will work with the Senate
Just not with Democrats
lmao, it was a pretty funny meeting all things considered.
We are all Ron Klain.
Decorum is like crack for the Democrats. They'll claim that they can't do anything because of decorum, healing and whatever other bullshit.
Yeah there is an argument, just not a good one.
Couldn't agree more.
It is a good argument. It is *the* argument.
If the filibuster remains, there is no VRA. There is no DC statehood. There is no Immigration reform.
That matters more than increasing the minimum wage right this instant.
The only thing I can see is ignoring them will have people crying out
The filibuster will remain. I will gladly eat crow when pigs fly and Manchin votes to get rid of the filibuster.
I know this is a little old, from the 23rd of last month, but lmao what an endorsement
Even with the whole electoral arguments people make for Manchin and Sinema, I'd argue keeping the much more reliable votes of Kelly and especially Warnock are far more important than Sinema or Manchin losing their seats in 2024 since they're up next year and could really use showing that they got some things done to electorates that narrowly elected them in the past few months. Plus 2022 has two vacated seats in North Carolina and Pennsylvania that can either outright replace Sinema and Manchin if they were to both go down in 2024, or make them essentially safe to do whatever nonsense they want to since they're no longer deciding votes.
OR they could just break the filibuster for adding a State and add DC as a state and they can take turns not voting on important legislation that improves people's lives.
Because at the end of the day if you're terrified that Sinema and Manchin are going to defect over an immensely popular and bipartisan idea such as a minimum wage increase that even Florida went all in electorally speaking then you already kind of have two Republicans who just happened to caucus with Dems.
OR they could just break the filibuster for adding a State and add DC as a state and they can take turns not voting on important legislation that improves people's lives.
Because at the end of the day if you're terrified that Sinema and Manchin are going to defect over an immensely popular and bipartisan idea such as a minimum wage increase that even Florida went all in electorally speaking then you already kind of have two Republicans who just happened to caucus with Dems.
You may very well be right.
The party will get decimated in 2022 and beyond if they don't pass any meaningful legislation. Biden and his administration knows this.
Is he though? Make him vote. God forbid we hold a democrats feet to the fire on a position.
Right.....which is an argument for forcing Manchin and Sinema to join Dems on the $15 minimum wage. Voting for Covid relief and a minimum wage that people will feel even if they think they don't want it, will benefit them. Pushing off the fight between these two and the rest of the party is just making drama and dragging shit out. Literally nobody will make an effective ad about going against the parliamentarian.
This pushback against the $15 to appear moderate is frankly stupid and I have trouble believing that their voters will look back and think what a great job they did at this moment by doing that. There will be a lot more fights where they can appear moderate. Just because you can make an argument that this could help them, it doesn't mean it's a good argument and everybody should accept it.
kamala can literally overrule through the parliamentarian but chooses not to
Right, because it's pointless if there aren't enough votes.
If anything, it makes the Dems look horrible. There is no reason to overrule the Parliamentarian if it isn't going to pass.
How is Manchin going to be 'forced'? I read this often, and honestly I'd like to discuss how this will get done.
You can't threaten him with a primary. You can't threaten him with some position that will be taken away. You can't threaten him with cutting off funding a re-election campaign, he may not even run again and his campaign is a political lifetime away.
And I would argue that the bigger fights are in the future, and the Dems need to kinda walk on eggshells to placate him and Sinema. It's just the reality of the situation as it stands right now.
If I was one of the 30 million Americans that would benefit from a drastic increase in the minimum wage, I would be ecstatic to see some Democrats fight tooth and nail to give me a living wage.
Not fighting just makes the Democrats look like elitists without values.
The man was literally just complaining ABOUT them pressuring him on it a few weeks ago:
Manchin snipes at Harris for pressuring him on coronavirus relief
"I couldn’t believe it. No one called me," Manchin complained after Harris highlighted the crisis facing his state.
www.salon.com
Just write the story both ways and let people latch on to whichever narrative feeds their cognitive dissonance while you collect the clicks and follows I guess.
Because him not voting for this would delay Covid relief. He was already attacked and caved on the relief checks, so you're obviously wrong that he can't be pressured. And stop saying people aren't explaining this when they have repeatedly you're just choosing to ignore it. It's fine if you don't find it convincing, I don't find your arguments convincing.
Never forget that WV's governor is seriously to the left of Manchin on stimulus. Let that sink in.
Pathetic that Manchin is given every excuse in the book to be a regressive asshole along with all the benefit of the doubt.
Right. Even if Manchin can't get forced, the Democrats need to have those fights out in the public. They need to make it clear that it's Manchin/Sinema and Repubs that are preventing legislation or being obstacles, and that it's not the Democrats as a party themselves.
So the Dems shouldn't slink back into their corner with their tails between their legs when Manchin opens his fool mouth. It's not enough to explain that they just don't have 50 for a vote, Dems need to explain every single no vote and then get the public to challenge those people. If Manchin/Sinema catch feelings over it, good! Fuck em, and keep that strategy going for every potential bill.
Pathetic that Manchin is given every excuse in the book to be a regressive asshole along with all the benefit of the doubt.
Right. Even if Manchin can't get forced, the Democrats need to have those fights out in the public. They need to make it clear that it's Manchin/Sinema and Repubs that are preventing legislation or being obstacles, and that it's not the Democrats as a party themselves.
So the Dems shouldn't slink back into their corner with their tails between their legs when Manchin opens his fool mouth. It's not enough to explain that they just don't have 50 for a vote, Dems need to explain every single no vote and then get the public to challenge those people. If Manchin/Sinema catch feelings over it, good! Fuck em, and keep that strategy going for every potential bill.
i mean you can force him to vote down the covid relief bill and see how that affects his re-election chances. If Manchin is really against the 15 dollar minimum wage that much, leave it in the bill and let him show it to everyone.
I know republicans unironically believe this garbage, but that democrats think there are any voters in W.V. thanking Joe Manchin for keeping them in poverty is ridiculous.
The man was literally just complaining ABOUT them pressuring him on it a few weeks ago:
Manchin snipes at Harris for pressuring him on coronavirus relief
"I couldn’t believe it. No one called me," Manchin complained after Harris highlighted the crisis facing his state.
Just write the story both ways and let people latch on to whichever narrative feeds their cognitive dissonance while you collect the clicks and follows I guess.
This doesn't sounds like a good way of pressuring to me if this is how it unfolded. Manchin describes being blindsided by it and says he wasn't contacted
It sounds exactly like what they should be doing to pressure him. He's already been spoken to, that's why we know his position. In fact in another thread here on ERA, pressuring him through his constituency was exactly one of the things requested. It was floated as a way of pressuring him to change his mind, and suggested as an alternative to simply "having a phone call with him that changes nothing and giving up on the issue".
He was unhappy with this approach because of the questions he ended up getting from people locally. The more he cries the better.
Actually, it's exactly how you pressure him.
He's crying about it because that's the sort of pressure that actually works. In fact, if you think you're applying pressure but it doesn't get him to react like that, you're not using effective pressure.